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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6831 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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1. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5832483)

Old one closed, so here you go.

2. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 16, 2019 at 03:07 PM (#5832506)

Cousins is done for the season. I'm not a fan, but I feel terrible for that guy.

I don't think this hurts GW very much. I don't even think the 31-point choke says that much about GW, other than they just got super careless and stopped playing. (It's more a tribute to the Clips and Doc Rivers than anything else.) That reminder of their mortality may, in the long run, be a benefit to them.

3. Athletic Supporter's restaurant with Ted Danson Posted: April 16, 2019 at 03:24 PM (#5832518)

Yeah, put me also in the camp of this doesn't actually matter. But it's good to have some fun in what is generally kind of a slog of a round.

4. aberg Posted: April 16, 2019 at 03:49 PM (#5832535)

Warriors will just have to find a way to scratch by with their other four HOFers. Poor Kerr. Guy just can't catch a break.

5. SteveF Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5832545)

I can't think of any teams GS is likely to play where having Cousins would be particularly helpful. Maybe the Sixers? I just don't view the Sixers as likely to make the finals, especially given Embiid's health situation.

6. Davo Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5832547)

I’m no expert, but Cousins *abused* Jokic the two times he faced him this year (both GSW blowout wins).

7. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5832549)

Rumor: Lakers Rumors: Tyronn Lue Meeting With General Manager Rob Pelinka

My dumpster fire is bigger than your dumpster fire.

8. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5832550)

Maybe, but I still think I'd take the Lakers short term *and* long term over the Bulls. That's not to mention the Suns, or Kangz, or Knicks. IOW, I'd predict the Lakers to win both a playoff game and title before any of those other 4.

Yes, I'm not buying KD+ to NYK until it actually happens.

9. jmurph Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:25 PM (#5832553)

Yes, I'm not buying KD+ to NYK until it actually happens.

Same. I (perhaps stupidly) think pretty much everyone will stay put except maybe Butler.

10. Athletic Supporter's restaurant with Ted Danson Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5832566)

Same. I (perhaps stupidly) think pretty much everyone will stay put except maybe Butler.

ISTM there are five things going into next year that will dramatically change the landscape of the NBA over the next few years:

1) Who wins the lottery and gets Zion?
2) Where does Anthony Davis get traded?
3) Where does Kevin Durant sign?
4) Where does Kawhi Leonard sign?
5) What does a 35 year old LeBron James coming off an injury look like?

We have varying levels of information on all of these, but each of these is a big swing, along with many moderate swings like Butler. I personally feel like there's enough smoke around Durant leaving that it's pretty likely. If GSW doesn't win the title it's going to feel sour, and if they do, what is left to accomplish really? Maybe I'm overpivoting on LeBron going back to Cleveland, but it feels like it'll be the right time for Durant to strike back out on his own. But he is a thoughtful dude, and maybe that's too facile a read.

11. NJ in NJ Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5832567)

Yes, I'm not buying KD+ to NYK until it actually happens.

We're usually on the same page, Moses. I am looking forward to the Knicks beginning next season with either Team A (KD, Kyrie, Zion) or Team B (KD, Kyrie, Brow).

Speaking of which, the 5 quarters of Clips-Warriors that I've watched has really driven home how much I hate KD because I am actively rooting for Patrick Beverley with all my heart despite my usual feelings about him. It's going to be tough cheering for KD in a few months.

12. jmurph Posted: April 16, 2019 at 04:54 PM (#5832582)

It's going to be tough cheering for KD in a few months.

I know you're (at least partially!) kidding, but as your former co-president of the Anti-Kyrie club, I can assure you these things are fleeting.

13. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: April 16, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5832597)

Ohhh, can we make this a contest?

1) Who wins the lottery and gets Zion? Knicks
2) Where does Anthony Davis get traded? Lakers
3) Where does Kevin Durant sign? Knicks
4) Where does Kawhi Leonard sign? Raptors
5) What does a 35 year old LeBron James coming off an injury look like? About the same as 34 year old LeBron James, with brand new humanlike injury proneness

I really, really hope I'm wrong about #1 and #5, though.

I hope some organization that isn't hopelessly and semi-permanently ###### lucks into Zion as Zion lucks into them. I could live with the Hawks, even. Just please, not the Knicks or Suns or Pellies or (sorry, Moses) Bulls.

14. Athletic Supporter's restaurant with Ted Danson Posted: April 16, 2019 at 05:48 PM (#5832598)

I hope some organization that isn't hopelessly and semi-permanently ###### lucks into Zion as Zion lucks into them. I could live with the Hawks, even. Just please, not the Knicks or Suns or Pellies or (sorry, Moses) Bulls.

Dan Gilbert is licking his chops.

15. aberg Posted: April 16, 2019 at 05:57 PM (#5832602)

I am actively rooting for Patrick Beverley with all my heart despite my usual feelings about him.

I think most of the world feels this way. Team Pat Bev. The fact that he's annoying KD as much as he is makes it that much more fun.

For what it's worth, the Wolves are as screwed as any of the teams listed above. Towns is a great foundation, but the rest of the team is Wiggins (a max contract for a guy who, at best, belongs at the back of an NBA rotation), Covington (coming off a very long-term leg injury that he never returned from all year and later had surgery to repair), Saric (who played like crap for the Wolves), and Okogie (who, while fun, cannot shoot). The rest of the team is either dead money or free agents. They seem to be committed to an unqualified condolensce coach who got very poor results when he took over. They started their POBO search at about the same time as the Pelicans. The shoddily run Pelicans hired an established (albeit somewhat boring) executive before the Wolves conducted their first interview. The owner who has presided over all of this mess (plus Joe Smith, McHale, Khan, Rambis, Ndudi Ebi, Flynn...) remains at the controls.

16. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 16, 2019 at 06:04 PM (#5832606)

I saw someone on twitter describe Beverly as the NBA's foremost professional wrestler, which seems about right. Love him or hate him, he's going to engender strong feelings, and seems perfectly happy to play the heel if you're rooting for the other team.

17. JC in DC Posted: April 16, 2019 at 06:16 PM (#5832608)

I absolutely LOVE KD.

18. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2019 at 06:29 PM (#5832613)

1) Who wins the lottery and gets Zion?
2) Where does Anthony Davis get traded?
3) Where does Kevin Durant sign?
4) Where does Kawhi Leonard sign?
5) What does a 35 year old LeBron James coming off an injury look like?

1: BOS.
2: LAC.
3: PHI.
4: SAC.
5: like someone who knows he's made a huge mistake, who hates everyone who's on the court with him, and who spends the last 3 months of the season laying the groundwork to force a trade to the clippers next summer.

19. If on a winter's night a father of a newborn baby Posted: April 16, 2019 at 07:08 PM (#5832633)

1: BOS.

Artful trolling, well done.

20. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2019 at 07:21 PM (#5832648)

i think this is my preferred offseason scenario for the sixers:

sign demarcus cousins for 2/16
sign patrick beverley for 3/50
sign nerlens noel for 2/8
resign jimmy butler for 4/140
resign mike scott for 2/10
sign tyreke evans for 2/9 (cap MLE)
sign james ennis for the league minimum
sign corey brewer for the league minimum
sign michael carter williams for the league minimum
draft chuma okeke at #25

starters in bold. rotation to the left of ||
G: simmons, beverley, tyreke || MCW
W: butler, zhaire || ennis, milton, brewer
B: embiid, cousins, noel, scott || bolden, okeke

i'm sure it'd be possible to defend that lineup, and i'm sure it'd be possible to score on that lineup...but good ####### luck while you're trying to do it.

21. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 16, 2019 at 07:27 PM (#5832653)

I would pay good money to see most any team try to defend a Embiid/Cousins PnR.

22. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2019 at 07:30 PM (#5832656)

I would pay good money to see most any team try to defend a Embiid/Cousins PnR.

i. know.

"oh good, simmons, butler, cousins and embiid are are going to the bench. now we just have to deal with...ah, #### me: patrick beverley, zhaire smith, tyreke evans, mike scott and nerlens noel.

23. Paul D(uda) Posted: April 16, 2019 at 07:32 PM (#5832659)

Raptors reddit is pretty dark at the moment. Couple of my favourites :

The Orlando magic should be embarrassed. Imagine almost losing a game 1 to the playoff raptors

Tonight may be the last time Kawhi plays at home for the raptors. I for one would like to thank him

24. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 16, 2019 at 07:52 PM (#5832680)

The Orlando magic should be embarrassed. Imagine almost losing a game 1 to the playoff raptors

Been laughing at this for at least five minutes.

25. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5832707)

this is also, theoretically, possible:

sign jeremy lamb for 4/40
sign terrence ross for 4/40
sign malcolm brogdon for 4/90
resign tobias harris for 4/140
sign bobby portis for the cap MLE (2/9)
draft jordan bone at #25

starters in bold.
G: simmons, brogdon, bone
W: harris, lamb, ross
B: embiid, portis, bolden

the big draw in this scenario, aside from brogdon and harris being high efficiency scorers who can defend multiple positions, is that brogdon (27), harris (27), lamb (27), embiid (25), simmons (23), ross (28) and portis (25) are all in their prime, which means the sixers' window for contention should be open for a while.

the big reason i don't love this is that the sixers window is only open for as long as joel embiid's body stands upright. at this point, i'm not willing to take that for granted.

26. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 16, 2019 at 09:00 PM (#5832719)

Can Harris really even guard a single position?

27. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 16, 2019 at 09:21 PM (#5832724)

Life is a lot harder when you're not shooting 50% from the arc.

28. spivey Posted: April 16, 2019 at 09:36 PM (#5832731)

Toronto looks pretty good tonight. I want them to exorcise those demons.

29. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: April 16, 2019 at 10:06 PM (#5832741)

Been laughing at this for at least five minutes.

Yeah, it's a thing of beauty.

30. Davo Posted: April 16, 2019 at 10:38 PM (#5832745)

The Nuggets are making me sad.

31. JC in DC Posted: April 16, 2019 at 10:42 PM (#5832747)

They look awful, Davo. Really slow to react, indecisive. The Spurs are just so damn well-coached. They're playing very well, and Denver has not been able to put together anything beyond Jokic.

32. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 16, 2019 at 10:53 PM (#5832750)

@nbaayy nbaayy

the nuggets are like that really hot girl in class. she's pretty, smart as hell, funny, kind and super down to earth. you take her on a date and she's more awesome than you could've even imagined. but then you take her to the gym and she can't make wide open threes

Looking better since this though...

33. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: April 16, 2019 at 10:59 PM (#5832751)

I can't root against DeRozan, but I badly want the Denvers to win.

34. Davo Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:14 PM (#5832753)

I will say this about Jamal Murray: He is not afraid to shoot.

35. spivey Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:18 PM (#5832754)

The Nuggets aren’t good at shooting 3s or defense. Bad combo. Though they’re out shooting the Spurs tonight, which won’t be the case most nights.

36. Davo Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:19 PM (#5832755)

How in the world does a coach as experienced as Pops get a technical in that spot?

37. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:21 PM (#5832756)

Whoa.

38. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:24 PM (#5832757)

Jamal Murray is nails.

39. Davo Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:27 PM (#5832758)

Well thanks for saving the season, Jamal.

40. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:13 AM (#5832764)

The Dame-Westbrook matchup is going decidedly in Dame's favor.

41. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2019 at 07:40 AM (#5832774)

this is a pretty great article, written by kevin oconnor, breaking down the sixers' pick and roll usage:

Simmons is such a dynamic player, it might come as a surprise that he’s less effective as the pick-and-roll ball handler. This is where his Achilles’ heel jump shot comes into play: Defenders can sag in the paint, knowing he won’t and can’t shoot from the perimeter. In Game 2 against the Nets, the Sixers did a far better job of attacking this style of defense by setting screens closer to the rim.
...
Philly hasn’t utilized this so far in the playoffs, but it’s one way for the Sixers to leverage their size advantage moving forward. Instead of trying to be something they aren’t, they could always play the classics.

42. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 09:19 AM (#5832785)

The Nuggets aren’t good at shooting 3s or defense. Bad combo.

They were 10th in DRtg, though I think a lot of people were somewhat skeptical that would hold up.

I maintain hope for a Denver-GSW WCF because I think it would be fun to watch, if not close. But Denver isn't making a very strong case so far.

43. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 09:30 AM (#5832787)

The Dame-Westbrook matchup is going decidedly in Dame's favor.

I love Lillard and wish he played further east so my sleepy ass could watch him more.

(I don't actually want him to leave Portland ever, for the record.)

44. spivey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5832788)

They were 10th in DRtg, though I think a lot of people were somewhat skeptical that would hold up.

Much of that (I think) was from their #1 3pt fg% against.

45. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 17, 2019 at 09:59 AM (#5832792)

Sort of feels like WCF is going to be boring at this point. Suppose that's a fair price to pay for what will be an interesting, second round, ECF, and (hopefully) Finals.

46. spivey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 10:28 AM (#5832803)

Sort of feels like WCF is going to be boring at this point. Suppose that's a fair price to pay for what will be an interesting, second round, ECF, and (hopefully) Finals.

I think it's way too early to say that. Portland is looking good, Houston looked good in their first win, Golden State is tied 1-1. Many scenarios are still in play right now.

47. Booey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5832815)

The Dame-Westbrook matchup is going decidedly in Dame's favor.

Serious question: would anyone here still take Westbrook over Lillard going forward? (and I'm basing this on the entire season, not just the first 2 games of the playoffs)

If we did our player rankings again, I'm pretty sure Lillard would crack my top 10 overall and be my #2 ranked PG behind Steph. I think he's surpassed Russ and CP3, and I'd take him over Irving and Kemba, too. Who else? He's well ahead of Simmons, Wall, Conley, Holiday, etc.

48. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 17, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5832818)

John Schuhmann @johnschuhmann 23m23 minutes ago

% of FGA in the playoffs...

From the restricted area...
Other 15 teams: 31%
Spurs: 16%

From 3-point range...
Other 15 teams: 34%
Spurs: 18%

49. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 17, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5832819)

Depends on whether you consider Harden a PG. If so, obviously he's better but I think Dame is comfortably ahead of the other guys.

50. Booey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 11:27 AM (#5832822)

Depends on whether you consider Harden a PG. He's the only one besides Steph that has a case I think.

I don't, now that the Rockets have CP3.

51. NJ in NJ Posted: April 17, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5832823)

If we did our player rankings again, I'm pretty sure Lillard would crack my top 10 overall and be my #2 ranked PG behind Steph. I think he's surpassed Russ and CP3, and I'd take him over Irving and Kemba, too. Who else? He's well ahead of Simmons, Wall, Conley, Holiday, etc.

Agree with him being the #2 guy at PG, not sure about Top 10, but could probably be convinced.

52. Booey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 11:46 AM (#5832831)

Agree with him being the #2 guy at PG, not sure about Top 10, but could probably be convinced.

Hmmm. Now that I'm actually writing out a list of guys I'd take before him, he might not crack the top 10. He's really close, though. Here's all the players who I think have a good argument over Lillard (in no particular order):

LeBron
Giannis
Harden
Steph
KD
AD
Kawhi
Embiid
PG-13
Jokic

That's 10, so Dame might be #11, assuming we believe George's season is his new level of performance and not just a career year. I'd take 2019 Lillard over 2018 PG-13 for sure.

Gobert probably rounds out the top dozen for me.

(Going off memory so there's also a good chance I'm forgetting somebody)

53. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5832835)

(Going off memory so there's also a good chance I'm forgetting somebody)

If Towns played for a better team he'd be entering these conversations. He's had three straight monster years.

54. Booey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5832838)

Towns, yeah. He belongs somewhere in that conversation, too.

55. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5832839)

And speaking of the Wolfs:

For what it's worth, the Wolves are as screwed as any of the teams listed above. Towns is a great foundation, but the rest of the team is Wiggins (a max contract for a guy who, at best, belongs at the back of an NBA rotation), Covington (coming off a very long-term leg injury that he never returned from all year and later had surgery to repair), Saric (who played like crap for the Wolves), and Okogie (who, while fun, cannot shoot). The rest of the team is either dead money or free agents. They seem to be committed to an unqualified condolensce coach who got very poor results when he took over. They started their POBO search at about the same time as the Pelicans. The shoddily run Pelicans hired an established (albeit somewhat boring) executive before the Wolves conducted their first interview. The owner who has presided over all of this mess (plus Joe Smith, McHale, Khan, Rambis, Ndudi Ebi, Flynn...) remains at the controls.

There were reports yesterday they've sought permission to interview Clippers GM Michael Winger and one of Houston's top guys Gersson Rosas, so that seems promising. Of course it wouldn't be at all surprising for Glen Taylor to insist his new POBO has to keep Saunders and Layden in place, thus driving away any good candidate. Who knows.

56. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5832841)

Lillard vs Kyrie is really, really close. Kyrie is about 1.7ish years younger if you're looking forward, which matters. Lillard has been much more durable, which would put him ahead in my book, and also trails Kyrie in inexplicably polarizing postgame comments with the either intentional or unintentional effect of dispiriting one's teammates, the crucial IPPCWTEIOUEODOT metric.

57. NJ in NJ Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5832842)

his is a pretty great article, written by kevin oconnor

He of Boban's low key wet jumper fame /cringe

58. NJ in NJ Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:12 PM (#5832844)

There were reports yesterday they've sought permission to interview Clippers GM Michael Winger and one of Houston's top guys Gersson Rosas

I've met Rosas and had basketball conversations with him. I've read about Winger. I would prefer Winger.

EDIT: SSS

59. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:15 PM (#5832845)

I've met Rosas and had basketball conversations with him. I've read about Winger. I would prefer Winger.

Turned down your proposed Ron Baker for Harden trade, I see.

60. JJ1986 Posted: April 17, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5832846)

They did top 10 current players on Dunc'd On a few weeks ago and I think they both had Kyrie and then Dame in their top 10 (they were probably 9-10 in the rankings). I think Embiid is a better player than both, but position might make them more valuable.

61. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 17, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5832872)

Lillard vs Kyrie is really, really close. Kyrie is about 1.7ish years younger if you're looking forward, which matters.

I dunno why, but I thought Dame was at least two or three years older than Kyrie (I guess staying four years in school really makes you think a guy is "old"). I'd still have taken Lillard, though. He's a durable, dependable metronome of awesome, and his style of play — his shooting in particular — will hold up better than the nuclear athleticism of a Westbrook or Irving.

62. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2019 at 01:34 PM (#5832876)

I agree that Westbrook's playing is driven by his nuclear athleticism, but I'm not sure that's how I'd describe Kyrie's game. He isn't necessarily the most athletic dude on the floor, but he plays space and timing better than anyone. Lillard's durability is a huge plus, but I can easily imagine old man Kyrie splitting double teams and wrong-footing a layup so that it's off the glass before a defender can block it. He may well break down if his knees continue to be an issue, but his style of play seems likely to age pretty well.

63. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 17, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5832880)

There were reports yesterday they've sought permission to interview Clippers GM Michael Winger and one of Houston's top guys Gersson Rosas

I've met Rosas and had basketball conversations with him. I've read about Winger. I would prefer Winger.

EDIT: SSS

Gerssson Rosss

64. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5832889)

Anyone surprised Griffin took the Pelicans job? I assume he's going to try to convince Davis to stay, but assuming he can't, I guess there's an allure to the idea of starting over with, presumably, a pile of picks/other assets.

65. rr: over-entitled starf@ck3r Posted: April 17, 2019 at 02:13 PM (#5832902)

64--

No, not at all. I think most of these guys want to be top dog, and NO is a great city. I also do not think that he was brought in to try to convince Davis to stay; I think he was brought in to maximize the return and hit the reset button. Issues with NO are serious--ownership and fanbase--but it could become a blingy market with the right people running personnel.

66. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5832961)

We're headed down the Howard path with Davis, aren't we?

Will Guillory @WillGuillory
Griffin says he believes AD is open to staying after discussions with Rich Paul. But he would prefer to establish if Davis is all-in or all-out on being with the Pelicans

67. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5832963)

What else should Griffin say in his intro press conference?

68. aberg Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5832964)

No, not at all. I think most of these guys want to be top dog, and NO is a great city. I also do not think that he was brought in to try to convince Davis to stay; I think he was brought in to maximize the return and hit the reset button. Issues with NO are serious--ownership and fanbase--but it could become a blingy market with the right people running personnel.

Yeah, if someone told me, "here is an 8-figure check, go work in New Orleans," I'm not even asking what the job is.

69. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5832967)

I hope some organization that isn't hopelessly and semi-permanently ###### lucks into Zion as Zion lucks into them. I could live with the Hawks, even. Just please, not the Knicks or Suns or Pellies or (sorry, Moses) Bulls.

I ##### about the Bulls plenty and the overall direction of the team, but in reality, they're still clearly generally better off than those other teams and have had relatively recent success. They're not also a place good players to go die or force their way out of*. I also have really changed my mind on Boylen - I'm not saying I like him, but I doubt he'd ruin someone like Zion. So while I think Pax isn't a great executive, and I question how committed or equipped the Bulls really are to build and sustain a contending team, they have a shitton more success stories to point at in both player development and team success than the usual other dregs of the league.

IOW, I doubt anyone really thinks of ending up on the Bulls as worst case option. It's not the best case either.

*Jimmy was pushed out here, didn't sound like he wanted to leave.

70. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:41 PM (#5832979)

What else should Griffin say in his intro press conference?

"I talked to Rich Paul and I think Davis is open to staying" is a lot, lot different than "Anthony Davis is a big part of this team and I'm excited to sit down with him and talk about how we can build a winner here" or whatever blah platitudes he could have come up with.

I'm not necessarily saying it means anything, I just think this sounds more like the Dwight situation than, say, the Kawhi one.

71. NJ in NJ Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:43 PM (#5832982)

We're headed down the Howard path with Davis, aren't we?

Speaking of which...I had this discussion yesterday with my non-BTF NBA friends...who's better, Prime Howard or Now Davis?

72. rr: over-entitled starf@ck3r Posted: April 17, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5832988)

67/Moses

Yeah, exactly. What matters is whether Davis wants to stay, and I don't think he does. My guess is that he will end up in a non-bling market with some talent--Indiana, Denver, Portland--and they will try for a Paul George/OKC scenario. Of course, as Stiggles graciously noted, I never thought that LeBron James would join a lottery team, even if it is the Lakers, so I may be dead wrong. But my gut is telling me Davis will not start next year in NO, LA, BOS or NY.

71/NJ:

I would go with Davis. Not by much, but without hesitation.

73. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 17, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5833066)

Now Davis is better offensively than Howard ever was at any point in his career, but Prime Howard was one of the ten greatest defenders in NBA post-merger history. That guy was a monster, a contender for top-10 all-time at center before that surgery.

74. rr: over-entitled starf@ck3r Posted: April 17, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5833079)

Part of it is timing. If I were starting a team in 1994, maybe I take Howard. 2019, which is how I was thinking, Davis.

75. Booey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5833094)

I'd go with Davis too, but I do think that Howard becoming a punchline has made a lot of people forget how great he was in his prime.

76. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 17, 2019 at 05:30 PM (#5833117)

I have zero recollection of this story, or the player.

77. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5833118)

Speaking of which...I had this discussion yesterday with my non-BTF NBA friends...who's better, Prime Howard or Now Davis?

davis is better. his usage rate is higher, his turnover rate is lower, and none of davis's flaws are as easily exploitable as howard's FT shooting.

78. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 17, 2019 at 07:02 PM (#5833150)

Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN

Jared Dudley dropping gems at media availability: "Ben Simmons is a great player in transition. And once you get him into halfcourt, he's average."

79. spivey Posted: April 17, 2019 at 07:37 PM (#5833161)

I'll take Prime Howard. He was the second best player in the NBA for a couple of years when CP3 was injured. I guess Davis has been close to that, for longer, but if we're talking prime, sure, Howard.

Howard also took a team with Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, and Hedo as the 2nd-4th best players to the finals. (Edit: this was also definitely outside of Lewis' prime, too, iyam)

I think Howard could play in today's NBA as well. He'd be Capela on ####### steroids. He was super athletic before his back went.

80. If on a winter's night a father of a newborn baby Posted: April 17, 2019 at 07:41 PM (#5833164)

I would very much like to see Davis on a team as well-constructed as those late-aughts Magic teams with Reddick, peak Hedo, and peak Rashard Lewis before I come to a firm conclusion; I think I'd still take Davis, but it's close.

81. tshipman (The Viscount of Variance)

Posted: April 17, 2019 at 09:28 PM (#5833193)

I think Howard could play in today's NBA as well. He'd be Capela on ####### steroids. He was super athletic before his back went.

The problem with Howard was that even in his prime, he insisted on taking a bunch of crappy post-up shots in the half court. Like, in theory Howard is maybe equal or better to Davis, but he never cut the fat out of his game.

82. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 17, 2019 at 09:29 PM (#5833194)

My poor, sad Pistons somehow had a 1-point lead at halftime and are already down 6 after 100 seconds.

83. JC in DC Posted: April 17, 2019 at 10:07 PM (#5833204)

James Harden is really good.

84. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2019 at 10:34 PM (#5833212)

Rough way to lose for the Pacers. They coughed up a decent lead throughout the fourth, and then threw away a chance to tie the game by committing boneheaded turnovers on back-to-back possessions to effectively ice the game for the Celtics.

85. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:46 AM (#5833227)

Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN

Jared Dudley dropping gems at media availability: "Ben Simmons is a great player in transition. And once you get him into halfcourt, he's average."

on a somewhat related note, i heard something the other day, after embiid and simmons cracked up about joel embiid ever actually being sorry for something he did:

apparently, some person got it in their head that joel embiid picks on smaller players, like he's some kevin garnett.

setting aside the fact that nearly every person in the world is smaller than embiid, that's just not it. embiid's biggest feuds have been with shiteside and andre drummond. sure, he's also gotten into it with marcus smart, donovan mitchell and westbrook, but in those cases, embiid wasn't the instigator (well...he's also just usually better at hiding it). he doesn't pick his targets based on size; he picks them based on emotional explosivity potential.

86. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: April 18, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5833244)

I'll take Prime Howard. He was the second best player in the NBA for a couple of years when CP3 was injured. I guess Davis has been close to that, for longer, but if we're talking prime, sure, Howard.

Howard also took a team with Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, and Hedo as the 2nd-4th best players to the finals. (Edit: this was also definitely outside of Lewis' prime, too, iyam)

okay, a few things about this:

1: jameer nelson was injured and missed most of that year and those playoffs, so really, howard dragged rafer alson, rashard lewis and hedo to the finals.

2: 2009 ORL was built with the same premise as HOU. their 3PA rate was 50% higher than league average (HOU is only 40% above league average), and they were top 5 in FTA rate. like HOU, ORL was not trying to be better than you, they were just trying to outscore you 4 out of 7 times in the playofss.

3: unlike HOU, ORL also had the NBA's #1 defense.

i think this is a lot like the discussion we had about tony kukoc a while back. ORL was ahead of their time, but they wouldn't benefit from being transplanted in an era where their style is more widely adopted.

87. jmurph Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:19 PM (#5833284)

James Harden is really good.

This was the first time (this year) that I thought they might be able to take out Golden State. That 1st quarter was ridiculous.

88. spivey Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5833293)

I’m always a bit reticent to assume a series is over when someone hasn’t lost a home game. But Houston/Golden State should be all time great WCSF. I think there were a couple old Spurs/Lakers matchups in that round.

89. Booey Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:44 PM (#5833296)

But Houston/Golden State should be all time great WCSF. I think there were a couple old Spurs/Lakers matchups in that round.

The 2nd round match up that always sticks in my mind as being an all time great series was Spurs (63-19) vs Mavs (60-22) in 2006.

Edit: Spurs/Suns in 2007 had the potential to be epic too, but unfortunately it'll always be remembered more for the suspensions/controversy.

90. Jtsports01 Posted: April 18, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5833297)

Booey I was just gonna say that. The Ginobli foul that allowed for OT in game 7

91. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5833351)

1) Who wins the lottery and gets Zion?

If Charlotte or Atlanta win the library, he'll be playing closer to his hometown than he was at Duke.

Anyone surprised Griffin took the Pelicans job?

The owners wont' be the worst to work for. I respected Benson's line of thinking with AD, which was basically, "why the hell are we being pressured into giving away one of the 3 best players in the league?".

92. Athletic Supporter's restaurant with Ted Danson Posted: April 18, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5833353)

I know that hagiographies can get a little eye-rolling, but I enjoyed this piece on Popovich and Spurs culture. Cause and effect is hard, but certainly most years they seem to get a lot more out of the talent on their roster than most teams, maybe this has a little something to do with it.

93. aberg Posted: April 18, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5833363)

The one storyline/rumor that I haven't quite bought is Kyrie going to the Knicks. It would be very strange to leave a burgeoning contender for the Knicks, especially when they would have a good chance to trade the guys he doesn't like for Davis if he stays.

94. If on a winter's night a father of a newborn baby Posted: April 18, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5833378)

I think that whether Kyrie stays or goes will primarily be determined by how this playoff run goes; and that if he leaves, where he goes will primarily be determined by whom he can pair up with as a free agent (presumably Durant).

I was extremely heartened to see that the Celtics lineup that closed out game 2 so well (the Pacers certainly coughed up the game with unforced errors; but the Celtics were playing well enough that they could certainly have won without the help) was the opening day starters. Irving / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford makes so much sense on paper—I think I even said some rash "death lineup"-type things before the season—but was bizarrely ineffective during the regular season.

95. If on a winter's night a father of a newborn baby Posted: April 18, 2019 at 05:10 PM (#5833381)

this piece on Popovich and Spurs culture

was delightful. It also makes me really, really want to have dinner with Gregg Popovich some day.

96. PJ Martinez Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5833408)

Judging by the crowd noise as conveyed by the TV broadcast, there are more Philly fans than Nets fans at Barclays tonight. Or they're louder, at least.

97. Hombre Brotani

Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:32 PM (#5833410)

Boban comes in, momentum swings. MORE BOBAN.

98. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:36 PM (#5833411)

Come on, Swamp Dragons. You can do better.

99. JJ1986 Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:47 PM (#5833413)

Boban +30
Greg Monroe -26

Numbers may not be quite accurate.

100. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: April 18, 2019 at 08:51 PM (#5833415)

Man, without Embiid in there, the Nets are getting what they want inside.

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