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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6831 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   4501. JC in DC Posted: June 21, 2019 at 08:30 PM (#5854820)
Clip.
   4502. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 21, 2019 at 08:32 PM (#5854822)
@WindhorstESPN says the Nets are “gaining confidence” that they’ll sign Kevin Durant.


I do not see Durant going this way if the chance to be part of every conversation about Hinkie and The Process is on the table.
   4503. JJ1986 Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:09 PM (#5854837)
Indiana selects Terence Davis. Detroit is on the clock:

41. Atlanta - Der-K - Shamorie Ponds, G, St John's
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic - Marcos Louzada (Didi) Silva, SF, Novo Basquete Brasil
43. Minnesota - aberg - Tremont Waters, PG, LSU
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986 - Terence Davis, SG, Ole Miss
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter
47. Sacramento - smileyy
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
   4504. Booey Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:13 PM (#5854839)
Hot take! Sources say that Kevin Durant will either re-sign with the Warriors, or go elsewhere!

Free agency just needs to start already...
   4505. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:22 PM (#5854844)
By the law of the excluded middle ...
   4506. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:30 PM (#5854847)
If Durant opts out I kinda think, the way things are, Golden State is going to have to let him walk.

edit: Metaphorically.
   4507. PJ Martinez Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:33 PM (#5854851)
4502: I chuckled.

There were some rumblings on draft night that the Nets were close to clearing just enough space to sign both Irving and Durant, which made me wonder.
   4508. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:41 PM (#5854858)
For the record I am not super high on Coby, I like him more than Culver and I place more value (especially for the Wolves right now) with a PG. I will be extremely happy to be wrong however.
   4509. KronicFatigue Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:43 PM (#5854860)
My only real rooting interest is rooting against Dolan's Knicks. I love there there was a brief moment where fans thought they were going to have Zion Durant and Irving and are now settling for RJ. The Nets seemingly being a well run organization and possibly getting 2 of those 3 is just icing.
   4510. JJ1986 Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:49 PM (#5854865)
There were some rumblings on draft night that the Nets were close to clearing just enough space to sign both Irving and Durant, which made me wonder.
Zach Lowe tweeted that they can get there without moving Taurean Prince, which should mean they just have to dump Dzanan Musa.
   4511. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:49 PM (#5854866)
I honestly have some reservations about the notion that a smart organization thinks giving Kyrie Irving a max contract is a good idea.

He's a good player, but I mean... he's not a GREAT player, and he's a weird dude who wants to be The Man but isn't good at it, and he's constantly injured.

And there's also the fact that the organization that employed him this season, which most everyone seems to think is smart, is shopping for a point guard yet has no apparent interest in re-signing him.
   4512. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:52 PM (#5854868)
There were some rumblings on draft night that the Nets were close to clearing just enough space to sign both Irving and Durant, which made me wonder


I have no idea what Durant will do, so that would not surprise me. I could also see Durant pulling a DeAndre Jordan and coming back to GS last-minute after seemingly committing to going some place else.

The Lakers signed a UDFA named Zach Norvell, a four-year guy from Gonzaga, guard. A Gonzaga fan showed up at a Lakers site to tell the commentariat about Norvell, and his nickname is "Snacks" because he "loves snacks and treats." I would have preferred "Assassin" or "Lasers" or something.
   4513. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:53 PM (#5854869)
[4511] I was just thinking something similar. If Kyrie generates surplus value over the max, it's not that much right? Granted you can only have 5 guys on the floor at once, but spitting that $$ between say Brogdon, Bogdanovic, and Lopez, is that so much worse?
   4514. Quaker Posted: June 21, 2019 at 09:59 PM (#5854872)
99% sure Norvell was only at GU for 3 years--one redshirt + two years playing, IIRC. I'll take him with the Spurs' last pick if we're still doing the draft.

If not, give me the Miss St guy San Antonio actually drafted IRL.
   4515. PJ Martinez Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:03 PM (#5854877)
For much of last season Kyrie Irving was probably the third best guard in the NBA -- better, if only slightly (and debatably, but I think probably better), than Damian Lillard, for instance. Lillard played 80 games and seems to be loved in the locker room; Irving played 67 and seems to be not. Also, Lillard went *off* in the playoffs and Kyrie did... not. So, sure, at the moment, Lillard seems like a supernova and Kyrie seems like the equivalent of three Bucks in a trench coat, but Kyrie is two years younger than Lillard and if he stays healthy and on the same basic trajectory that he's been on then he should be better than Lillard next year. Hopefully he doesn't make all of his teammates hate him, because it seems like maybe that's an issue for him.
   4516. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:05 PM (#5854878)
but spitting that $$ between say Brogdon, Bogdanovic, and Lopez, is that so much worse?


Depends on who else you have. Irving is an elite offensive player, and a mediocre defensive player. He just turned 27, but he is kind of a pain in the ass. But in the current NBA salary structure, he is a max guy. The distinction for me is that he is not a guy like Leonard or Antetokounmpo or Davis that ANY team should max. But that doesn't mean Irving is not worth the max to the right team.
   4517. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:18 PM (#5854881)
Granted you can only have 5 guys on the floor at once, but spitting that $$ between say Brogdon, Bogdanovic, and Lopez, is that so much worse?


Well, no, but Brogdon is going to get damn near a max and Lopez is going to get $15M a year (albeit on a short contract) from someone, so splitting a max between those guys isn't likely to be an option.

It amazes me that people flippantly say things like "if Kyrie can stay healthy..." Kyrie has NEVER been healthy. You're bucking long odds if you want to bet on him suddenly becoming durable as he approaches 30. To me that's a huge part of why I want no part of maxing him.

[4518] Nitpick of an accurate general point, but I think e.g. Giannis, AD, Steph, Harden are guys any team in the NBA would max, trading whoever they have to to fit them in. It's not just LeBron.

I'm very skeptical that Kyrie is worth a max to anyone but teams that can't really sign free agents otherwise and need a point guard real bad. If Brooklyn wants to max a point guard they'd probably be better off with Kemba, who isn't quite as good as Kyrie but at least he's durable and not a locker room problem. (Now, if Kyrie and Durant are buddies and maxing Kyrie is a condition of Durant signing with you, that's a completely different scenario.)
   4518. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:20 PM (#5854882)
But that doesn't mean Irving is not worth the max to the right team

I think that this is the right framing; nobody other than maybe LeBron is a max player for all teams; the question is whether Irving at the max fits alongside the overall team composition, not just the other max player he might be slotted in next to.
   4519. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5854888)
Until last year, Irving had done better in post-season than Lillard and is still ahead of him in PER and TS%, even after last year. Lillard is exceptionally durable, but a guy playing 65-70 games in the "load management" era is not as big of a deal as what he does in post-season.
   4520. PJ Martinez Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:39 PM (#5854891)
The max part of this seems to be skewing things. Most of the guys mentioned above (Giannis, AD, etc.) are worth *more* than the max, and so you get surplus value thanks to the collective bargaining agreement if you employ one of them. Guys like Kyrie are worth "just" the max, or thereabouts (maybe a little more -- and not necessarily to all teams).
   4521. puck Posted: June 21, 2019 at 10:40 PM (#5854893)
Eventually you need a PG. IMO it is the most important position in the modern NBA.


Who are considered point guards nowadays? I think Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Irving, and Lillard are all called point guards. But they are not your father's point guards as they say...they seem like some new position.

It does seem like a hugely important type of player to have on your team.
   4522. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 21, 2019 at 11:49 PM (#5854901)
they seem like some new position.


I remember in TBOB Simmons said that back in the pre-merger era, the best guards were just guards, not point guards or shooting guards. They could score and shoot and also bring the ball up, and initiate the O. Frazier, West, Greer, guys like that. I think today you need guys who can initiate the O and also spot up off the ball and hit the 3, so I would suggest that it is perhaps kind of a new version of an old thing.
   4523. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 21, 2019 at 11:56 PM (#5854902)
Since he's on topic, not relevant to basketball, but I don't think I've told my secondhand Kyrie anecdote yet. A family friend went to Duke when he was there for a year, and smoked pot / hung out with him several times. He said that even taking the pot out of the equation, Kyrie was an extremely chill, laid-back dude, the sort of person you would never guess had a competitive hobby let alone being a professional basketball player. Obviously people can change a ton from age 18, but I thought that was interesting.
   4524. puck Posted: June 22, 2019 at 01:10 AM (#5854912)
#4522: good point. I wonder how the small, great ballhandling point guard archetype came to be.

I thought about Cousy (knowing very little about him) but he scored at a pretty good clip. Led the team a few seasons. Most of those Celtic teams had pretty balanced scoring.
   4525. puck Posted: June 22, 2019 at 01:21 AM (#5854914)
Nuggets' summer league schedule is announced. 4 games on national TV, the first on July 5. I think Michael Porter is still supposed to be playing.
   4526. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: June 22, 2019 at 04:37 AM (#5854923)
The edit to 4506 deserves some love.
   4527. J. Sosa Posted: June 22, 2019 at 08:17 AM (#5854928)
I think Simmons at one time referred to combo players like Harden as zero guards rather than the traditional one or two. I like the designation.

Re: Kyrie

I have never understood why he is so highly valued. I tend to believe in chemistry more than most here, so maybe that is part of it. It is pretty amazing to me that even after detonating the Celtics he still is in demand. The Knicks, I understood. They are the Knicks. But the Nets? As pointed out earlier he can’t even stay healthy. One way player. Locker room pariah. Modern GMs place a ton of value on ball dominant guards so I understand that there is something to it I don’t fully appreciate, but when it comes with all the other garbage... No thanks.

FWIW Kyrie apparently wasn’t a total nutjob until fairly recently. Behind the scenes he was reasonably well liked. The pseudo intellectual chem trail BS is a relatively recent thing.
   4528. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 22, 2019 at 08:23 AM (#5854929)
I've always thought that 0-guard should refer to small, shoot-first point guards. Harden is too huge to qualify, IMO.

I'm not sure what I think about Kyrie; all I know is that I deeply regret standing up here against a 1/1 Wiggins/Irving swap when that was mooted a couple of years back.
   4529. PJ Martinez Posted: June 22, 2019 at 08:37 AM (#5854931)
The Knicks, I understood. They are the Knicks. But the Nets?
There does seem to be internal debate in Brooklyn about whether they should bring Irving there if he's not coming with Durant. I value Irving more than some people here, but I do think those reported reservations make sense.
   4530. spivey Posted: June 22, 2019 at 08:47 AM (#5854932)
Kyrie seriously may be a cancer, but he’s an elite shooter and bucket getter which is critical in the playoffs. His advanced stats last year were elite. You are getting more prime age years than a normal contract. He’s definitely worth a max and if Boston doesn’t seem interested I think it’s because they already know he’s not coming back.
   4531. jmurph Posted: June 22, 2019 at 09:07 AM (#5854934)
I’m with Spivey (and rr and pj and others in the pro max camp), and to the last point I’m absolutely certain Boston would bring him back if he’d sign the full max.

I think a lot of people haven’t updated their priors since he left Cleveland, to use a term I hate but that works here. He’s been a top 10-15 (at worst) player the last two years. The injury concerns are real and the locker room stuff is pretty clearly for real (even if you just go by his public comments, he caused a lot of grief last year), I’m not saying those things don’t matter. The fit has to make sense, sure, but he would improve the backcourt of like 28 teams.
   4532. Conor Posted: June 22, 2019 at 09:08 AM (#5854935)
I honestly have some reservations about the notion that a smart organization thinks giving Kyrie Irving a max contract is a good idea.

He's a good player, but I mean... he's not a GREAT player, and he's a weird dude who wants to be The Man but isn't good at it, and he's constantly injured.

And there's also the fact that the organization that employed him this season, which most everyone seems to think is smart, is shopping for a point guard yet has no apparent interest in re-signing him.


Isn't it more that Kyrie has no interest in staying in Boston as opposed to them not wanting to keep him?

He's definitely a weird dude though. Zach Lowe has talked this a few times, I think signing Kyrie on a max can make sense if you're pairing him with someone like Lebron or Durant, where he isn't the guy, but there could be an issue if you bring him in as the guy. That said, the dude really can score.
   4533. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 22, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5854936)
Think I'm supposed to pick even though Deteoit traded this. Will take Cody Martin.
   4534. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 22, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5854939)
Orlando takes SG Quinndary Weatherspoon, Miss St.

smileyy is on the clock for Sacramento

As long as the other guy I want is still on the board, I'm interested in buying a pick. Also, I think we still need someone for the Clips?
   4535. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 22, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5854940)
Reposting entire draft for new page.

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Romeo Langford, G, Indiana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Grant Williams, F, UT
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic - Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic - Rui Hachimura, F, Gonzaga
18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K - Nassir Little, F, UNC
19. San Antonio – Quaker - P.J. Washington, F, Kentucky
20. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Chuma Okeke, F/G, Auburn
21. Oklahoma City – Thok - Cameron Johnson, F, UNC
22. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Dylan Windler, F, Belmont
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball - Tyler Herro, G, Kentucky
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man - Nic Claxton, F/C, Georgia
25. Atlanta – Der-K - Matisse Thybulle, G, Washington
26. Cleveland - Harlond - Kevin Porter Jr., G, USC
27. Brooklyn – mike f – Keldon Johnson, G/F, Kentucky
28. Golden State – sardonic - KZ Okapla, F, Stanford
29. San Antonio – Quaker - Luka Šamanić, PF, Košarkarski klub Olimpija Ljubljana
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw – Carsen Edwards, G, Purdue

31. Brooklyn – mike f – Bruno Fernando, C, Maryland
32. Washington (from PHO via NOP) – Dandy Little Glove Man - Talen Horton-Tucker, G/F, Iowa State
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135 - Isaiah Roby, F, Nebraska
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135 - Darius Bazley, F
35. Washington (from ATL) - Dandy Little Glove Man - DaQuan Jeffries, F/G, Tulsa
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Ty Jerome, PG, UVA
37. Dallas - stevegamer - Jontay Porter, F, Missouri
38. Chicago - Moses - Luguentz Dort, G, Arizona State
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball - Daniel Gafford, C, Arkansas
40. Sacramento - smileyy - Eric Paschall, F, Villanova
41. Atlanta - Der-K - Shamorie Ponds, G, St John's
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic - Marcos Louzada (Didi) Silva, SF, Novo Basquete Brasil
43. Minnesota - aberg - Tremont Waters, PG, LSU
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986 - Terence Davis, SG, Ole Miss
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Cody Martin, G/F, Nevada
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter - Quinndary Weatherspoon, SG, Miss St.
47. Sacramento - smileyy - On the Clock
48. LA Clippers
49. San Antonio – Quaker
50. Indiana – JJ1986
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Timothy Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL Jrue Holiday (from NOP), Jonathon Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson (from NOP), Melvin Frazier (from ORL), Evan Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

NOP #17
WAS #24, #32

POR Omari Spellman
ATL Skal Labissiere, #25

ATL 2020 2nd (protected 31-44 or 500K in 2025), rights to Cenk Aykol
PHO Skal Labissiere

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
LAL Anthony Davis

DET #30 (Carsen Edwards), Tony Snell
MIL Jon Leuer

smileyy (Sacramento) is on the clock and the unowned Clippers are on deck. I think anyone who's done with their draft should feel free to grab the Clippers (or, of course, anyone without a team yet).
   4536. smileyy Posted: June 22, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5854944)
@Athletic Supporter, I could be talked into selling this pick. Name your terms and I'll take them.
   4537. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 22, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5854946)
It looks like Miami bought #44 for 1.88M IRL, so how about 1.75M in straight cash?
   4538. smileyy Posted: June 22, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5854961)
Sounds good to me. You'll enjoy this pick more than I will!
   4539. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 22, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5854970)
Great! Orlando selects SF Louis King from Oregon. The thread is on the clock for the Clips.
   4540. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 22, 2019 at 02:25 PM (#5854980)
The Lakers bought the 46 IRL. Took Talen Horton-Tucker.

Irving: I think for me it comes back to the old "best-guy-on-a-champion" thing. Every team that has won in the 21st century, including the champion Irving himself played on, has had a guy better than Irving on it, with the usual possible exception: 2004 Pistons, although I think a lot of people would take Billups over Irving. So, I think history suggests that if your best guy is a smallish guard, if you are going to win the championship, you generally need to be exceptionally deep 70/73 Knicks-88/89 Pistons-04 Pistons or the guy needs to be Steph Curry (and the two pre-Durant Finals teams had Thompson and Green ofc).

I think Ainge, as well as lot of other people, thought Boston had a strong enough core of very good guys (Irving/Horford/Hayward/Tatum) to be a team sort of like the 1970 Knicks with Irving as the #1 guy, but it didn't happen for them this year.

As PASTE pointed out, if you are Brooklyn, you obviously max Irving if that means Durant is coming, but even if he is not, Irving seems like he might draw a second star to Brooklyn in the next year or two whereas a balanced, starless Nets roster might not.
   4541. Harlond Posted: June 22, 2019 at 07:12 PM (#5855058)
The Clippers select Alen Smailagic. Take that Warriors!

That wasn't me, that was Jerry West.

Quaker and San Antonio are on the clock.
   4542. Quaker Posted: June 22, 2019 at 09:30 PM (#5855083)
Norvell
   4543. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 23, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5855147)
JJ1986 (Indiana) is on the clock.

45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Cody Martin, G/F, Nevada
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter - Quinndary Weatherspoon, SG, Miss St.
47. Orlando (from SAC) - Athletic Supporter - Louis King, SF, Oregon
48. LA Clippers - Jerry West - Alen Smailagic, C, Santa Cruz Warriors
49. San Antonio – Quaker - Zach Norvell Jr, SG, Gonzaga
50. Indiana – JJ1986 - On the Clock
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
   4544. JJ1986 Posted: June 23, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5855159)
Indiana takes Miye Oni (who is the last player I did any looking at. Norvell was going to be my guy).
   4545. sardonic Posted: June 23, 2019 at 11:39 PM (#5855270)
An excerpt from Andre Iguodala's new book about Klay Thompson. As basketball fans, I'd say we're lucky to have Klay in the game:


In Iguodala's upcoming book, The Sixth Man, he detailed a moment during a team-building exercise where players were asked to talk about a moment in the game they felt their highest, and Thompson's might be the dopest ever.
"When Klay's turn came, we all assumed he was going to say that his highest moment was the day he scored 37 points in a quarter against Sacramento," Iguodala writes. "I mean, that was an NBA record! But he didn't. Instead he said, 'My best moment was one night I caught a pass and I was like 50 feet from the basket and I was about to shoot it. And all of a sudden, I hear Andre being like, 'What the f---, Klay? You're 50 feet out.' And I thought about it for a second and shot it anyway. It went in, and I was like, 'Yeah, Andre, f--- you.' We all had a good laugh about that. I was like, 'Wow, really dog? That was your best moment?'"
   4546. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 24, 2019 at 09:32 AM (#5855289)
Oh, Klay.

That's the best thing since Honus Wagner saying the biggest thrill of his career was the time an opponent told him to go to hell, because he'd been in the league two years and it was first time anyone spoke to him.
   4547. PJ Martinez Posted: June 24, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5855323)
4545: Loved that.
   4548. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5855360)
Salient longform piece on the role of replay and video in refereeing and sports culture. Definitely gets me to sympathize with the referee, and I do think that each sports needs to have a more holistic approach to replay and video.

We're a ways down the path of trying to apply black and white standards to calls that historically have been made with judgement in the spirit of the game -- the NFL is probably the farthest along, MLB at least has a policy embracing gray area around double plays at second, and soccer is dipping its toes in as video review is visibly and materially changing the established standard of what constitutes a handball.

Of course in the NBA you have the landing zone and offensive basket interference and what have you.

It feels like we've been on a path for a while of just adding incremental video review any time there's a high profile blown call or controversial officiating issue, but I feel like leagues should re-assess a little bit and come up with some overarching philosophy that maintains the authority of the referee and incorporates current technology while maintaining game flow. Or maybe it's more just about marketing and building a bit more of a culture, as in UK soccer's "#Respect" campaign.

Of course, that can also be a hard sell in a post-Donaghy world.
   4549. aberg Posted: June 24, 2019 at 01:44 PM (#5855375)
edit: wrong thread
   4550. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 24, 2019 at 01:52 PM (#5855380)
Boston will take Marial Shayok, F, Iowa St.

Sixers got him in real life...

In Celts real life, we just signed Tacko Fall! Could be fun...
   4551. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5855386)
It feels like we've been on a path for a while of just adding incremental video review any time there's a high profile blown call or controversial officiating issue, but I feel like leagues should re-assess a little bit and come up with some overarching philosophy that maintains the authority of the referee and incorporates current technology while maintaining game flow. Or maybe it's more just about marketing and building a bit more of a culture, as in UK soccer's "#Respect" campaign.
the problem with replay isn't replay; it's that the audience (and the commentators) are not aware of what's happening. the way to fix it is to put mics on referees, pipe them into the television broadcast in real time.

if you pipe the referees into the TV broadcast, then all of a sudden the audience will know exactly what's going on, exactly what the referees are looking for and exactly why a decision was or was not made.

this is how is how it's done in rugby and it's awesome. there is no reason whatsoever for this to not be the standard.
   4552. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 24, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5855390)
The audience at home is aware of what's happening. We can see replays of the play they are reviewing. After the decision is made, we know what it was or was not made. That doesn't help at all.
   4553. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5855396)
The audience at home is aware of what's happening. We can see replays of the play they are reviewing. After the decision is made, we know what it was or was not made. That doesn't help at all.
right, which is why every football fan knows exactly what the definition of a catch is, and there's no controversy over it, whatsoever.
   4554. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 24, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5855399)
Putting aside the Byzantine issue of what constitutes a catch, the broader issues with replay to me seem to be:

- the delays impact the flow of the game negatively, often putting an interminable break in play to change nothing
- slow mo replay highlights situations where the game is called slightly differently from the rulebook. (For example, there have been a couple calls in the WWC where a keeper was inches off her line prior to a penalty kick. VAR has had them replay the kick, which is technically correct but not how it is ever called live)
- referees are very aware of what is/is not reviewable, and it in some situations materially affects how the game is called. I can understand why a referee might wait to make a call, knowing that he/she can review to see if an infraction occurred, but it is worse for the flow of the game than making the initial call to therefore have to go to video review.

More broadly, in sports where the referee is given latitude to interpret the rules and shepherd the game, which is how basketball/soccer/football work, video review takes a decision that is in the context of the game and reframes it as being about interpreting the rulebook perfectly. If it were only used to review out-of-bounds calls and the like, that would be fine (and could be expedited), but if it is going to be the broad tool it is being used as now, we need to have more specific, explicit rules and expectations around how a referee's control of a game is supposed to intersect with video replay. Stopping a game for several minutes to agonize over slow motion footage of an ambiguous play doesn't improve anything, and I am pretty sympathetic to the argument that it undermines the authority of the refs.
   4555. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2019 at 02:41 PM (#5855402)
More broadly, in sports where the referee is given latitude to interpret the rules and shepherd the game, which is how basketball/soccer/football work, video review takes a decision that is in the context of the game and reframes it as being about interpreting the rulebook perfectly. If it were only used to review out-of-bounds calls and the like, that would be fine (and could be expedited), but if it is going to be the broad tool it is being used as now, we need to have more specific, explicit rules and expectations around how a referee's control of a game is supposed to intersect with video replay. Stopping a game for several minutes to agonize over slow motion footage of an ambiguous play doesn't improve anything, and I am pretty sympathetic to the argument that it undermines the authority of the refs.


Yes, this is what I was trying to say, but better.
   4556. Fridas Boss Posted: June 24, 2019 at 03:03 PM (#5855421)
At #52, Charlotte selects MFIONDU KABENGELE, F, FSU

45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Cody Martin, G/F, Nevada
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter - Quinndary Weatherspoon, SG, Miss St.
47. Orlando (from SAC) - Athletic Supporter - Louis King, SF, Oregon
48. LA Clippers - Jerry West - Alen Smailagic, C, Santa Cruz Warriors
49. San Antonio – Quaker - Zach Norvell Jr, SG, Gonzaga
50. Indiana – JJ1986 - Miye Oni , SG, Yale
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Marial Shayok, F, Iowa St.
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - MFIONDU KABENGELE, F, FSU
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo - ON THE CLOCK
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135
55. New York – JC and NJ
   4557. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 24, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5855446)
Woj: Portland is trading Evan Turner to Atlanta for Kent Bazemore, league source tells ESPN.
   4558. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5855447)
Man, those Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe deals really did not turn out well at all for Kevin Pritchard. I guess we all make mistakes.
   4559. aberg Posted: June 24, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5855449)
Woj: Portland is trading Evan Turner to Atlanta for Kent Bazemore, league source tells ESPN.


It's a funny comparison because Bazemore is a good shooter who can do almost nothing else, while Turner can do almost everything passably, except shoot. Looks like the years and money are pretty even going both ways, so I guess the teams just liked the fit better with the opposite guy.
   4560. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 24, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5855454)
Bazemore is a better defender than Turner as well.
   4561. PJ Martinez Posted: June 24, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5855458)
Some speculation from Hawks fans that it was done as a favor to Bazemore.
   4562. Booey Posted: June 24, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5855464)
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo - ON THE CLOCK


Any preferences, Tom? I don't know anything about anyone left (or anyone who's already been picked, to be honest), so unless you have someone in mind, I was just gonna assume that the real Jazz know what they're doing and pick one of the guys they drafted IRL.
   4563. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 24, 2019 at 06:14 PM (#5855496)
the one on court reason i can think of to get turner is if they want to play him as the backup point guard. they don't really have one right now, the free agent market is eh (and not necessarily how they wanna use cap space) and he'd offer a different look.
   4564. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 24, 2019 at 08:09 PM (#5855516)
Real plus minus might be my favorite uber-stat, but espn’s ability to house/show the numbers in a non-haphazard way is startling.
   4565. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 24, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5855517)
if you pipe the referees into the TV broadcast, then all of a sudden the audience will know exactly what's going on, exactly what the referees are looking for and exactly why a decision was or was not made.
This is my favorite solution. Hearing the refs explicitly discuss the footage undercuts the homeristic "ARE YOU ####### BLIND" arguments, educates the fans about the finer points of the rulebook, and would bring some vital nuance to what comes down to a black and white decision. If the footage is ambiguous, hearing the refs actually discuss the footage and whether it's clear enough to actually overturn the call on the floor would be much better (and, vitally, much better entertainment than waiting interminably while listening to commentators speculate).
   4566. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 24, 2019 at 08:37 PM (#5855520)
All video replay is a scourge, and there is no plausible argument for having it at all, still less for expanding its use.
   4567. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 24, 2019 at 10:09 PM (#5855558)
If not an RFA, how much do you think Bryant is worth in free agency? He’s a true center and has limitations, but is only 21, is super efficient around the rim, and has other skills (can hit a three, decent passer, decent at a lot of things).

A rebuilding team with cap space could make an offer that DC literally can’t match (just over 9 mil); just sayin’...
   4568. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 24, 2019 at 10:29 PM (#5855562)
Edit: they could; arenas provision
But it could be painful
   4569. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 24, 2019 at 11:13 PM (#5855574)
Any preferences, Tom? I don't know anything about anyone left (or anyone who's already been picked, to be honest), so unless you have someone in mind, I was just gonna assume that the real Jazz know what they're doing and pick one of the guys they drafted IRL.


I don't know anything about anyone left either, so sounds good to me.
   4570. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2019 at 11:49 PM (#5855583)
   4571. Booey Posted: June 24, 2019 at 11:53 PM (#5855584)
Real Jazz got PF Jarrell Brantley out of Charleston at #50, so he's a STEAL at #53, right?!!!

So..uh...yeah...Jazz select Jarrell Brantley.

54. Philadelphia- 57i66135


On the clock...
   4572. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: June 25, 2019 at 12:10 AM (#5855585)
i'll keep it moving:
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135 - Jalen Mcdaniels, F, San Diego State

55. New York – JC and NJ
56. LA Clippers
57. New Orleans – sardonic
58. Golden State - sardonic
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy

   4573. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: June 25, 2019 at 12:30 AM (#5855586)
i actually had another guy's name typed, but when i went back to copy the remaining draft order, i noticed that mcdaniels was still available. he was my 3rd option at #33/34, so getting him at #54 is a huge steal, imo.

in total:
#33: isaiah roby:
For the last three seasons at Nebraska, Isaiah Roby has established himself as a high level defender capable of guarding 1-5 at the collegiate level ... Standing 6'8'' tall and possessing a lean, athletic, 230 pound frame, Roby also sports a 7'3'' wingspan that allows him to play much larger than his listed 6'8'' height
... great lateral quickness, and great defensive instincts
...his ability to hedge off pick and rolls, and switch defenders at a level that projects him to be a multi-position NBA defender
...also a high level athlete
...he has an above average handle for a forward, and is effective in transition due to the pairing of these two skills

#34 darius bazley:
6’10 versatile forward … Good length with a near 7’0 wingspan and 8’11 standing reach … Natural athleticism and versatility. Very fluid and coordinated. Quick first step. Good slashing ability … Can get to the rim and finish with either hand.
...Can score inside and out
...Great tools as a versatile defender with his length and athleticism

#54: jalen mcdaniels:
A lengthy combo forward player (6-9 with a 7-foot wingspan) … Great ball handling abilities, especially for his height (6’9’’)
...Crashes the glass, averaged 8.3 rebounds per game as a sophomore at San Diego State … Plays with great energy on the offensive end … Uses his length to steal the ball from opponents …
...Measured 6' 8.25' barefoot, 6' 9.75'' in shoes, 191.6 lbs, 7' 0.25'' wingspan, and a 8' 9.5'' standing reach at the 2019 NBA Draft Combine
...Has the size and skillset to play multiple positions at the next level

traded for melvin frazier:
...Rare physical specimen with tremendous length ... High level athlete
...Strong transition player and excels slashing to the basket where he’s able to outclass opponents athletically ... Great length and explosive leaping ability ...
...Measured: 6' 4.5'' barefoot, 6' 6'' in shoes 198.2 lbs, 7' 1.75'' wingspan, 8' 9'' standing reach, 7.90% body fat, 9.50 inch hand length at the 2018 NBA Draft Combine

and frank jackson:
Jackson's ability to score the basketball is one of his biggest strengths ... He shot 40% from three point range this season, was a reliable mid-range shooter and was an above average finisher at the rim
...gifted athlete with a lot of leaping ability ... Has a quick first step to burst by defenders and has some shifty fakes and handles to set up drives
...quick feet
...great size and length for the PG position
...very good legs

and don't google:
Fournier gangrene is a rare necrotizing infection of the genital region found most often in older men. It's pretty bad! Basically, your whole penis area turns horrible colors and falls off, then you die. Herod the Great had Fournier's gangrene, but I'm certain it was not one of the things that made him so great. I am not including any sort of links here because I nearly puked researching this post, and I swear I have a strong stomach for these things.
...
1. I think this is a fantastic nickname, even if (or perhaps because) it runs the risk of self-defeating. Like, I *immediately* did a Google image search.

2. Seriously, don't do it. If you are like me or my coworkers, you're probably like "Oh come on, it can't be that bad, I'll totally be able to behave normally and think about regular things and eat meals and just live my life as usual in the hours and days after I see those photos."

You're wrong. You won't. This is a life-changer. Never Google Fournier.



overall:
PG: simmons -- jackson/(mcconnell)
SG: fournier -- zhaire/frazier/milton/(ennis)
SF: (butler) -- (free agent)/roby
PF: (free agent) -- mcdaniels/bazley
C: embiid -- bolden/(free agent)/(free agent)


that bench is probably a tire fire, but that is a metric shitton of length, athleticism and defensive potential (and frank jackson)
   4574. JC in DC Posted: June 25, 2019 at 01:17 AM (#5855589)
New York selects Cornell guard Matt Morgan.
   4575. sardonic Posted: June 25, 2019 at 07:40 AM (#5855601)
I know the Clippers are next, but going to be pretty busy today, so getting my two picks and a backup in early.

New Orleans selects Deividas Sirvydis, F, Lietuvos Rytas - Highest real life pick not yet selected. Real life Pelicans only had one 2nd rounder, so had to improvise.

Golden State selects Jordan Poole, G, Michigan - Sadly, our real life 1st round pick fell all the way to #58 in our draft... roughly where he was mocked.

If either of those are picked by LAC, someone will take Terance Mann, F, Florida State, because the real life Clippers, hopefully with Jerry West at the wheel, took him, and I respect the hell out of that guy's talent evaluation skills. I figured since the mock Clippers are next there's a good chance he gets taken at #56.
   4576. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 25, 2019 at 09:18 AM (#5855608)
fyi - mcdaniels is being sued for recording sexual acts without their consent by two different people so - pass on that.
   4577. sardonic Posted: June 25, 2019 at 09:32 AM (#5855615)
I know the Clippers are next, but going to be pretty busy today, so getting my two picks and a backup in early.


Who am I kidding, not too busy to follow the NBA!

"I think they’ll both be back with the Golden State Warriors," Iguodala said Monday while appearing on CNBC. "We keep in contact. … But if both decide to leave, they’ll still be my brothers. … I just wish the best for both of those guys, they come back full strength."

So it’s not the Knicks for Durant?

"Nobody’s going to the Knicks, sorry," Iguodala said, smiling
.

Edit: From the Athletic today.
   4578. Harlond Posted: June 25, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5855640)
WTH, Jerry West selects Terance Mann.
   4579. sardonic Posted: June 25, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5855645)
Boom, in that case the thread is on the clock for Toronto and then it's the last pick of the draft!

56. LA Clippers - Terance Mann, F, Florida State
57. New Orleans – sardonic - Deividas Sirvydis, F, Lietuvos Rytas
58. Golden State - sardonic - Jordan Poole, G, Michigan
59. Toronto
60. Sacramento - smileyy
   4580. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 25, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5855660)
On behalf of Canada, let's go with Jaylen Nowell, SG, University of Washington.
   4581. aberg Posted: June 25, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5855679)
Post-thread-draft Wolves depth chart looks like this:

PG- Teague / (Tyus Jones), Tremont Waters
Wing- Wiggins, Covington / Okogie, Alexander-Walker, Bates-Diop, Cam Reynolds
Bigs - Towns, Saric / Dieng (Covington and KBD would cover most of the backup 4 minutes in smaller lineups)

Britt Robson from The Athletic wrote a piece yesterday about how Rosas has done positive things so far, but the big questions around PG future, shooting, and what to do with Wiggins all remain up in the air. Likewise, I didn't really address any of those in our draft. There is a legal way for the Wolves to trade Teague and an asset (like a lotto protected 1st) into a third team's cap space, a 2nd round pick to BKN, and get DLo back. That trade would address the PG issue and would help with the shooting. As for Wiggins, my goal would be to auction him off to teams with leftover cap space when the dust settles to see who will take him with the fewest additional assets attached. I'm hopeful that someone will take Wiggins into cap space at the expense of one future first, but it remains to be seen if that is realistic. I would then use the full mid-level to try to sign a wing who can shoot, like Terrence Ross (3/27). If it works, the roster would look like this:

PG - Russell / (Tyus Jones), Tremont Waters
Wing- Ross, Covington / Okogie, Alexander-Walker, Bates-Diop, Reynolds
Bigs - Saric, Towns / Dieng

For shorthand, here are the rough salaries I'm working with: Teague 19, Wiggins 27, Russell 25, Ross 9, Jones 8. That would take the 19/20 total number (factoring in rookie salaries) to about 107. I'd still have to figure out what I want to do with Saric long term, but I wouldn't mind giving him a few more months to see how he fits in this version of a more stable system. Is that better than:

Teague, Culver, Wiggins, Covington, Towns / Jones, Okogie, Dieng + ? On its own, I think so, but I have to see how the FO handles the rest of the summer. I imagine many more dominoes are left to fall.
   4582. aberg Posted: June 25, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5855680)
Going through this exercise made me realize how important it is for one or both of Culver and Okogie to become 35%+ 3pt shooters in this incarnation of the roster. It's possible that neither of them will factor into the long-term future of the team, but if they do, the shooting will be essential.
   4583. smileyy Posted: June 25, 2019 at 01:41 PM (#5855698)
Has anyone selected Tacko Fall? If not, I'll conclude the draft with him.
   4584. sardonic Posted: June 25, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5855700)
Nope, I think that's a wrap!

1. New Orleans – sardonic - Zion Williamson, F, Duke
2. Memphis – Willard Baseball - Ja Morant, G, Murray State
3. New York – JC and NJ - RJ Barrett, F, Duke
4. New Orleans (from LAL) - sardonic - Jarrett Culver, G Texas Tech
5. Cleveland - Harlond - DeAndre Hunter, F, UVA
6. Phoenix – Oriole Tragic - Coby White, PG, UNC
7. Chicago - Moses - Darius Garland, G, Vanderbilt
8. Atlanta - Der-K - Cam Reddish, F, Duke
9. Indiana – JJ - Brandon Clarke, F/C, Gonzaga
10. Atlanta - Der-K - Bol Bol, C, Oregon
11. Minnesota - aberg - Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech
12. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Sekou Doumbouya, F, Limoges CSP
13. Miami – Mouse – Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
14. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Romeo Langford, G, Indiana
15. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Grant Williams, F, UT
16. New Orleans (from ORL) – sardonic - Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
17. New Orleans (from ATL via WAS) - sardonic - Rui Hachimura, F, Gonzaga
18. Atlanta (from IND) – Der-K - Nassir Little, F, UNC
19. San Antonio – Quaker - P.J. Washington, F, Kentucky
20. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Chuma Okeke, F/G, Auburn
21. Oklahoma City – Thok - Cameron Johnson, F, UNC
22. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Dylan Windler, F, Belmont
23. Memphis (from UTA) – Willard Baseball - Tyler Herro, G, Kentucky
24. Washington (from PHI via WAS) – Dandy Little Glove Man - Nic Claxton, F/C, Georgia
25. Atlanta – Der-K - Matisse Thybulle, G, Washington
26. Cleveland - Harlond - Kevin Porter Jr., G, USC
27. Brooklyn – mike f – Keldon Johnson, G/F, Kentucky
28. Golden State – sardonic - KZ Okapla, F, Stanford
29. San Antonio – Quaker - Luka Šamanić, PF, Košarkarski klub Olimpija Ljubljana
30. Milwaukee – Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw – Carsen Edwards, G, Purdue

31. Brooklyn – mike f – Bruno Fernando, C, Maryland
32. Washington (from PHO via NOP) – Dandy Little Glove Man - Talen Horton-Tucker, G/F, Iowa State
33. Philadelphia- 57i66135 - Isaiah Roby, F, Nebraska
34. Philadelphia- 57i66135 - Darius Bazley, F
35. Washington (from ATL) - Dandy Little Glove Man - DaQuan Jeffries, F/G, Tulsa
36. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - Ty Jerome, PG, UVA
37. Dallas - stevegamer - Jontay Porter, F, Missouri
38. Chicago - Moses - Luguentz Dort, G, Arizona State
39. Memphis (from NOP via PHO)– Willard Baseball - Daniel Gafford, C, Arkansas
40. Sacramento - smileyy - Eric Paschall, F, Villanova
41. Atlanta - Der-K - Shamorie Ponds, G, St John's
42. New Orleans (from PHI) – sardonic - Marcos Louzada (Didi) Silva, SF, Novo Basquete Brasil
43. Minnesota - aberg - Tremont Waters, PG, LSU
44. Indiana (from ATL) - JJ1986 - Terence Davis, SG, Ole Miss
45. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - Cody Martin, G/F, Nevada
46. Orlando – Athletic Supporter - Quinndary Weatherspoon, SG, Miss St.
47. Orlando (from SAC) - Athletic Supporter - Louis King, SF, Oregon
48. LA Clippers - Jerry West - Alen Smailagic, C, Santa Cruz Warriors
49. San Antonio – Quaker - Zach Norvell Jr, SG, Gonzaga
50. Indiana – JJ1986 - Miye Oni , SG, Yale
51. Boston – The Mighty Quintana - Marial Shayok, F, Iowa St.
52. Charlotte - Fridas Boss - MFIONDU KABENGELE, F, FSU
53. Utah - Booey/Cervo - Jarrell Brantley, F, Charleston
54. Philadelphia- 57i66135 - Jalen McDaniels, F, San Diego State
55. New York – JC and NJ - Matt Morgan, G, Cornell
56. LA Clippers - Terance Mann, F, Florida State
57. New Orleans – sardonic - Deividas Sirvydis, F, Lietuvos Rytas
58. Golden State - sardonic - Jordan Poole, G, Michigan
59. Toronto - Jaylen Nowell, SG, University of Washington
60. Sacramento - smileyy - Tacko Fall, C, UCF

Transactions:
MEM #39, Josh Jackson, Tyler Johnson
PHO Derrick Favors

MEM #23, Derrick Favors, Tony Bradley
UTA Mike Conley

NOP #16 (from ORL), #24 (from PHI), #42 (from PHI), ORL 2021 #1 (top-10 protected, then top-4, then unprotected), Timothy Mozgov (from ORL)
ORL Jrue Holiday (from NOP), Jonathon Simmons (from PHI)
PHI Frank Jackson (from NOP), Melvin Frazier (from ORL), Evan Fournier (from ORL)

NOP #32
PHO #39, Jahlil Okafor

WAS #17, #35
ATL #9

ATL Damontis Sabonis, #18
IND #9, #44

NOP #17
WAS #24, #32

POR Omari Spellman
ATL Skal Labissiere, #25

ATL 2020 2nd (protected 31-44 or 500K in 2025), rights to Cenk Aykol
PHO Skal Labissiere

IRL:
NOP #4, Ingram, Ball, Hart, future 1sts and swaps
LAL Anthony Davis

DET #30 (Carsen Edwards), Tony Snell
MIL Jon Leuer
   4585. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 25, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5855702)
At this point, here's the Hawks depth chart (salary next season - age):
C Sabonis   3.50-23 Len      4.16-26  Bol    4.24-19
F Collins   2.69
-22 
F Bembry    2.60-25 Reddish  4.86-20  Little 2.81-19
G Huerter   2.64
-21 /                   / Thybulle 2.10-22
G Young     6.27
-21 /                   / Ponds 


To be bought out / dealt / occupy bench roles (all have only one year remaining):
Bazemore 19.27-30
Crabbe 18.50-27
Plumlee 12.50-31

Future dead money:
J.Adams 0.10-23

Other cap holds:
Dedmon (9.36), Anderson (7.55), Humphries (1.64), Carter (1.62)

--
That's a remarkably inverted payroll. The lame duck deals (3 guys, 50.27m) occupy a considerably bigger chunk than those expected to make the active roster (11 players, say 36.87m) and the projected starting lineup makes about three and a half mil per person. (Note, the mammoth summer of 2020 cap room will likely be eaten into by extensions).

Trades I would explore at this point include (and are not limited to):
Flipping Crabbe or Bazemore (likely the former) to Miami for Ryan Anderson (21.26m). They get a decent (though overpaid) player on the wing - and as RA's guaranteed portion is only 15.64m, I can save a few mil when I buy him (sadly, it looks like he's completely washed) out.
Similar, moving one of those two (thinking Bazemore, who was a pretty good player one season back) to Toronto for Ibaka (23.27m) and a small asset. They get wing help and save several million (I'm targeting teams with pressing FA or tax needs) - I slot the overqualified Ibaka into the big man rotation (which then has Ibaka playing primarily the five and Sabonis splitting time between the two front court spots). (I've other candidates as well.)
If one of the pair isn't moved, I'd gladly make them my backup two.
There are several teams I targeted for moving Plumlee - here too the idea is I take a slightly bigger bad contract and tiny swag on in exchange for this bad contract. Ian Mahinmi (yeah, yeah, I know) from a cash strapped Wizards team was one.

My approach to free agency would then be bound to how much cap space I had remaining from these moves, where the obvious needs are power forward (though some of my threes would certainly spend time there), a backup point guard, and a veteran wing. I'll spare you my list of these guys for the time being.

EDIT: Heh. I'd target Alex Caruso for one guard spot - and, as I type this, I'm listening to a mock offseason (Dunc'd On) where Caruso gets signed/dealt to the Hawks.
   4586. jmurph Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5855708)
All the MVP ballots have been posted. The only egregious thing that jumps out are two 4th and two 5th place votes for Westbrook.
   4587. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5855710)
That's a remarkably inverted payroll. The lame duck deals (3 guys, 50.27m) occupy a considerably bigger chunk than those expected to make the active roster (11 players, say 36.87m) and the projected starting lineup makes about three and a half mil per person. (Note, the mammoth summer of 2020 cap room will likely be eaten into by extensions).


It's the classic baseball pattern where performance has an inverse relationship to scenario because players don't reach free agency until after their prime. Seen in basketball situations like this and The Process where the team is rebuilding so whatever veterans they have are just random "expiring contract" bozos who could just as well go home, show up at practice, be injured, who cares.
   4588. jmurph Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5855711)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
The Celtics, I'm told, are emerging as a stealth suitor for Charlotte Hornets free agent Kemba Walker

A. This will presumably not happen.
B. I'm not totally sure it would even make sense.
C. But I would love to have that guy on the Celtics.
   4589. Hot Wheeling American Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:12 PM (#5855713)
All the MVP ballots have been posted. The only egregious thing that jumps out are two 4th and two 5th place votes for Westbrook.

I assume LeBron's fifth place vote is in its own category because it's from the nba.com fan vote.
   4590. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5855719)
B. I'm not totally sure it would even make sense.
Why not? The Celtics offense has worked best the last few years with a lead guard who can create his own shot—Tatum could plausibly soak up more possessions on the ball, but I wouldn't bet on it, and certainly not by next season. The attention Kemba's pull-up game demands would give Grant Williams much more space to refine his short-roll playmaking in the NBA; his shooting would give Brown and Tatum more space to get to the rim; and Smart's secondary playmaking and defense would play pretty nicely next to Kemba.

Agreed on points A and C.
   4591. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5855722)
If the Celtics have max space I would imagine they're motivated to use it now if they can. I mean, everyone is. The 2020 title is up for grabs.

It's another thing contributing to my ongoing suspicion that someone is going to just go ahead and offer Malcolm Brogdon the max. And Milwaukee might feel they have no choice but to match it.

I mean, if you have max space but strike out on the top tier free agents, you just might get to thinking: The max is a HUGE contract and Brogdon isn't really worth THAT much, but... he's still young, he's pretty damn good, he was good in the playoffs, it's an overpay but nowhere near a Wiggins/Wall level of rolling disaster if Milwaukee doesn't match and we get him, and if they DO match then at least we made it as painful for them as possible to keep him.

edit: Yeah, most of the above applies to Russell too, except that if the Nets sign Kyrie and renounce him he'll be a UFA.
   4592. smileyy Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5855723)
Thanks to all of those who ran and participated in the draft, especially the former!
   4593. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 25, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5855725)
I have to say, I do not understand the love that Russell is getting these days.
   4594. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 25, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5855785)
I have to say, I do not understand the love that Russell is getting these days.
He averaged 21 and 7, and was seen as the key cog for a Nets team that won 42 when they were expected to win 32. He's not elite, but he does a lot of stuff well. I don't think he's a max player, but he gets way too much flack here for what he doesn't do.
   4595. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 25, 2019 at 03:55 PM (#5855787)
Who would you rather have for the next 4 years at the same money: Russell or Brogdon?
   4596. jmurph Posted: June 25, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5855788)
Who would you rather have for the next 4 years at the same money: Russell or Brogdon?

Extremely boring answer: depends on the team context.
   4597. jmurph Posted: June 25, 2019 at 04:03 PM (#5855791)
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Restricted free agent Kristaps Porzingis and the Dallas Mavericks will meet when free agency opens on June 30 and the franchise plans to offer Porzingis a full five-year, $158 million maximum contract, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

Not exactly a surprise, but there it is.
   4598. PJ Martinez Posted: June 25, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5855795)
D'Angelo Russell was also a top prospect who went no. 2 in the draft and just had by far his best season at age 22-23 (he's three full years younger than Brogdon, e.g.). I don't think he's great now but the possibility that he will continue to improve seems real.
   4599. RJ in TO Posted: June 25, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5855798)
I understand he was going to get a max offer as long as he was still alive, but that seems like a lot of cash for a guy who hasn't played a game in a year and a half, and who didn't seem to be having a terribly smooth recovery.
   4600. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: June 25, 2019 at 04:31 PM (#5855800)
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