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Tuesday, April 16, 2019

OT - NBA thread (Playoffs through off-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and this one only cares about the NBA thread and the Cubs so I have no idea what the rest of the website cares about.

Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: April 16, 2019 at 02:18 PM | 6831 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   501. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5836425)
So NBA refs ruled that the no-call on Green was correct because Green would have missed Harden had Harden not extended his legs.
   502. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: April 29, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5836431)
[501] Quick glance, almost everything the refs got wrong hurt the Rockets/favored the Warriors.
   503. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: April 29, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5836434)
I'm curious, does Denver have a historically above-average home court advantage because of the elevation? Since starters play more minutes in the playoffs, I wouldn't be shocked if conditioning plays a larger role in April and May.


I don't know whether the Nuggets have a historically above-average home court advantage, but if they do, it's because of the elevation. There are many arenas with louder fans (in general).

However, I've been wondering the past few years if overall player conditioning (and private jets) has reduced the advantage. There were a number of games last year and the year before that the Nuggets lost to good and mediocre teams when the OTHER team had to travel to Denver for the 2nd of a back-to-back.

I do think there is SOME greater advantage due to fewer players playing more minutes, but it's likely offset by:
a) improved player conditioning
b) in the playoffs, teams can come in early and have more time to adjust to the altitude.
   504. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 29, 2019 at 03:05 PM (#5836438)
Denver historically has a very large HC and had the best record at home in the league this year. Conversely, The Spurs and Nuggets were the only two teams to make the playoffs in the West with losing road records this season.
I believe it's been demonstrated that Denver teams tend to have the largest HFA of any team in a given league outside of the NHL - and still quite high there (iirc). (so, yes, elevation/travel)
   505. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5836441)
Irving and Horford are very good shooters on those, but are about ~45% for their career on 10-16 and 16ft<3.

The stats I'm looking at have both Irving and Horford over 50% (~50-51%) on 14ft<3 over the past two seasons. You'd take those percentages in the half court, I'd think. (Edit: Not as your first option necessarily, but if that's the worst possible look you're going to get on offense, you'd doing really well.)

The pbpstats site has the shot quality of the Celtics and Bucks as roughly equal in game 1 (49% efg), but I suspect the Celtics actually had a higher qSQ given the nature of the defense and quality of player taking the shots. Not that I'm asking if anyone has access to that proprietary data, mind you...

My expectation is Milwaukee will make adjustments to get Giannis better shots/make it harder to defend him. Pelton mentioned having him screen/roll and that seems like something Bud will do in game 2. I'm not sure if they will adjust to the Horford pick and pops. Bud might feel they'd be even worse off getting bigger players switched onto Kyrie.
   506. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 03:41 PM (#5836446)
The stats I'm looking at have both Irving and Horford over 50% (~50-51%) on 14ft<3 over the past two seasons. You'd take those percentages in the half court, I'd think. (Edit: Not as your first option necessarily, but if that's the worst possible look you're going to get on offense, you'd doing really well.)


I noticed that too. There's probably a way to see from basketball-reference what the sample size is there, but I'm pretty inclined to think it's small enough to where I'd want more years than 2. So I kind of looked at career and the last several years.

Also, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Kevin Durant are all better shooters than both of them, and all are around ~45% on those shots for their career with a fair amount of variance year to year. Now, they're probably higher on uncontested looks from that range, of course. But I'm not sure you should expect anyone to hit more than ~45% from there over a large sample in an NBA game.
   507. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:03 PM (#5836451)
But what are we counting as "those shots"? Any long 2 at all? I would expect overall long 2 shooting percentages to be significantly lower than the wide open, spot up long 2s Horford got all game.
   508. Booey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:04 PM (#5836452)
So NBA refs ruled that the no-call on Green was correct because Green would have missed Harden had Harden not extended his legs.


I'll echo others who've said that these types of calls/no-calls are really tough. I think it's a gray area, similar to the block/charge rules (i.e. mostly subjective). As the Kawhi incident from a couple years ago showed, it's obviously dangerous to undercut a shooter, so I agree with the league that you need to give them space to land...but we also can't pretend that this is just a natural shooting motion for many of these guys. The exaggerated leg kick is a foul hunting ploy done specifically to create contact with the defender; no one does it when they're wide open. If you're the shooter and you're STILL landing on your defenders feet from 3 feet away...well, that's on you, IMO. A defender shouldn't have to concede 3-5 feet of clearance on all jump shots.

(Note: I'm speaking in generalities. I didn't see GSW/HOU, so I don't know which side of the line these specific Harden incidents fall)
   509. jmurph Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5836456)
If you're the shooter and you're STILL landing on your defenders feet from 3 feet away...well, that's on you, IMO. A defender shouldn't have to concede 3-5 feet of clearance on all jump shots.

This goes to tship's point on the previous page:
So what are you supposed to do as the defender? When it's someone shooting a jumpshot, it's pretty straight forward. But with the step back, it's confusing.

The point of the step back is to create space, so is the defender now unable to close that space, by definition? If the rulebook encodes an unguardable shot by definition, that feels like it needs some clarifying/revising.
   510. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5836457)
I feel like the league is going to have to update its guidance to the refs or perhaps even rework the rules themselves to deal with this. I detest Harden and his foul hunting, but it is not a qualitatively different thing than driving into traffic, for instance.
   511. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5836458)
I mean, I am loath to change rules because one exceptional, generational player does something amazing right on edge of what is clearly legal and what is clearly illegal. If, say, some useless scrub like Kadeem Allen or Andrew Wiggins starts succeeding at it, then, OK.
   512. Mike A Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5836470)
I don't know whether the Nuggets have a historically above-average home court advantage, but if they do, it's because of the elevation.

Deadspin had a recent article that affirmed (via a study) that the Nuggets have the greatest home court advantage in sports. The Jazz were second. It was estimated that the Nuggets 'gain' 2.5 wins per season over the worst home court team (Brooklyn Nets). Due to complaints, the league has apparently tried to mitigate the issues via better scheduling.

And it's almost certainly due to the altitude. According to said study, the Rockies and Broncos have the greatest home court advantage in baseball and football, respectively, while the Avalanche come in 7th in the NHL. Calgary leads hockey, and they're also somewhat remote and at 3,400 feet.

In their earlier days, the Nuggets tried to take full advantage of conditioning by running teams to death. But...they never had huge success in the playoffs. So maybe there is something to the theory that the altitude advantage weakens when teams have more time to acclimate.
   513. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:45 PM (#5836473)
With baseball, ISTR in the early days at least that players' road stats would crater when they went to the Rockies. It's not an easy analysis, and maybe the authors cover it, but is it possible that some of the observed strong HCA for Denver is their players doing worse on the road? I'd imagine this is less likely than in baseball (where pitches move differently at sea level), but you could imagine a world in which Denver players become recalibrated to the effects of (say) thinner air on jumpers, and they end up playing worse on the road and it all cancels out or even is deleterious to the Nuggets.
   514. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:49 PM (#5836476)
But what are we counting as "those shots"? Any long 2 at all? I would expect overall long 2 shooting percentages to be significantly lower than the wide open, spot up long 2s Horford got all game.


I'd expect it to be lower. I don't know if the wide open by zone stats are available at the player level. I can't seem to find that on NBA.com. Their menu selection is pretty dense, so maybe I'm missing it. I generally feel like over the large scale, most of the 2s that Horford takes are going to be reasonably open. Although I probably wouldn't make any drastic changes, I would probably mix up a tiny bit, either with early rotations to Horford from a help defender, etc. just to try to get him a bit less comfortable.
   515. Booey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 04:59 PM (#5836481)
I mean, I am loath to change rules because one exceptional, generational player does something amazing right on edge of what is clearly legal and what is clearly illegal. If, say, some useless scrub like Kadeem Allen or Andrew Wiggins starts succeeding at it, then, OK.


Lots of non-generational players are getting 3 free throws by using an exaggerated kick out to land on their defenders feet these days. I remember yelling at my TV in the 2017 playoffs when JJ Redick kept doing it to George Hill to keep the Clippers close down the stretch in Game 5 (I didn't bother b!tching about it here since the Jazz won anyway ;-) Jae Crowder does it too, to single out someone on my own team. Even as a Jazz fan I think most of his 4 pt opportunities (or 3 free throws) are iffy.

The step back adds a new wrinkle and makes it even harder to defend, but it's the same basic concept of what a lot of players are doing - deliberately trying to land on their defenders feet to get free throws.
   516. Tin Angel Posted: April 29, 2019 at 05:53 PM (#5836492)
ESPN miraculously got its hands on a report made by the Rockets that details 81 questionable calls in Game 7 of last year’s Western Conference Finals.

With about 8:55 left in the third quarter, Kevon Looney rebounded a Klay Thompson missed 3-pointer. As Looney went up for a putback, Gordon made some contact with him that went uncalled. Looney missed. Looney jumped to try to tip the ball in, and Harden leaped to block Looney’s shot—making some contact with Looney’s arm and upper body. Again, no call was made. The loose ball ricocheted to Curry, who passed it to Kevin Durant for an open 3-pointer which went in.

The league cited Harden’s attempted block as a potential infraction—a possible foul, but one the league could not say conclusively was a foul even upon review, according to Houston’s analysis. Houston concluded that the non-call cost them two points.

The Rockets got those two points, in their estimation, because Durant wouldn’t have had a chance at the three, and because Looney is a 61 percent free throw shooter.


I didn't think it was possible for me to like Houston's style any less, but there you go.
   517. Moeball Posted: April 29, 2019 at 05:57 PM (#5836494)
Re: teams doing well in the regular season but not necessarily being playoff-ready. As it pertains to Milwaukee, I think they're ok there. They may have matchup difficulties with Boston but, on the other hand, I think they are especially well suited to face Toronto, in case that series materializes.
Most people refer to the Hawks team from a few years ago as the prime example of a team that looked good in the standings but which really wasn't prepared to go to the next level in the playoffs. But the one I think of is the 2009 Cavs, who had the best record in the league at 66-16, but with some serious problems. They knew that to win the championship, they would probably have to get past Boston (defending champs) and Orlando in the East, and, if Cleveland somehow made it past that gauntlet to the Finals, they would then most likely face the Lakers. Against those 3 teams that season, the Cavs went only 3-6. They went 63-10 against everybody else but, you know, you don't get to face teams like the Knicks in the playoffs. You have to actually beat the best teams, and that Cavs team wasn't capable of doing that so almost no one was surprised when they were eliminated.
   518. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 05:57 PM (#5836495)
ESPN miraculously got its hands on a report made by the Rockets that details 81 questionable calls in Game 7 of last year’s Western Conference Finals.
...
I didn't think it was possible for me to like Houston's style any less, but there you go.
that seems perfectly reasonable.
   519. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 29, 2019 at 07:05 PM (#5836508)
ESPN miraculously got its hands on a report made by the Rockets that details 81 questionable calls in Game 7 of last year’s Western Conference Finals.

I was curious, if they were giving themselves 2 points just for that example, what they think the "legitimate" final score should have been. Looks like they "awarded" themselves 18.6 total points... so presumably Rockets by 10 or so. Based off of '81 questionable calls' line, I was kinda hoping for something completely insane, like 157-52.
   520. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 29, 2019 at 07:19 PM (#5836518)
I'm not really interested in the Rockets crying to the refs conversation; I do find myself curious about the metaconversation around it. It seems non-controversial to say a) that the Rockets, and Harden in particular have made a lot of hay out of weaponizing precisely how the rules are enforced and b) that refs allow more contact in the playoffs. Putting aside the semi-hilarious specifics of how the Rockets are pleading their case, it seems like there may be a hidden downside to any sort of attempt to game the refs to get an advantage come playoff time. If a team is more reliant on whistles than its competitors, and not necessarily clear-cut ones at that, is that a strategy that is bound to underperform in the postseason?
   521. PJ Martinez Posted: April 29, 2019 at 07:58 PM (#5836532)
Apologies if someone's already mentioned this, but Harden's free-throw rate has usually dipped in the playoffs -- not every single season, and not a consistent amount; maybe it's flukish, given the small sample size. But it doesn't *seem* coincidental.
   522. PJ Martinez Posted: April 29, 2019 at 08:01 PM (#5836535)
Interesting juxtaposition -- from Lowe's Bucks/Celtics preview, which looks spot on after one game (he picked Bucks in seven):
That is one of the overarching questions in these playoffs: Is Mike Budenholzer willing to scrap the foundation that got Milwaukee this far and play an entirely different style if the situation calls for it? His playoff record does not suggest instant wholesale adaptability.
And from a Bontemps off-day story:
If there was a consistent theme from all who spoke at the Bucks' practice here at their gleaming facility Monday afternoon, it was that the level of energy and effort -- and not the game plan -- was the biggest thing that needed to shift from Game 1 to Game 2.
   523. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5836541)
Jesus Haploid Christ, Kawhi is a monster.
   524. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2019 at 08:32 PM (#5836543)
ESPN miraculously got its hands on a report made by the Rockets that details 81 questionable calls in Game 7 of last year’s Western Conference Finals.


Does it come with an audio recording of the entire organization sniffing their own farts? If not, clearly an opportunity for this year.
   525. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 08:49 PM (#5836548)
I don't know if this whole thing that Houston is doing right now is something where they seriously feel aggrieved, or if they're just trying to set the terms of engagement and get Harden out of his own head for being so inefficient yet another playoffs (this can change, but he's been weak so far).
   526. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 08:52 PM (#5836550)
When 2 good teams play each other, a 7 game series is a hell of a thing. Great response from Philly here. Hell, they're not even playing that well. 9 turnovers!
   527. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 29, 2019 at 08:52 PM (#5836551)
So is Miller going to skate completely even with the FBI playing tapes of him discussing payments to a player?
   528. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:00 PM (#5836554)
525--With all the talk about all the players and teams working the officials does it reach the point where the league has to get really draconian with absurd fines and maybe even suspensions just for arguing? Seems headed that way
   529. sardonic Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:02 PM (#5836556)
Next, I'm going to release a report of the 98 times other people in the stock market made a trade with me that didn't turn out the way I thought. According to those calculations, I should be able to buy an NBA team any day now. Too bad that means I'll have to start putting up with the indignity of NBA refereeing...
   530. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:05 PM (#5836557)
Ben Simmons is so loose with the ball. I wonder what you could get for him.
   531. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:34 PM (#5836565)
General Soreness performed the Harden and got away with it, so perhaps it's more of a plague than I had said, upthread.
   532. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:37 PM (#5836566)
I am so in love with Pascal Siakam.
   533. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:39 PM (#5836568)
I think we all knew it was just a matter of time until Greg Monroe got it going.
   534. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:40 PM (#5836569)
General Soreness performed the Harden and got away with it

I have no idea what this means, but it sounds perverted.

I am not looking up any of that on urban dictionary though.
   535. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 09:50 PM (#5836571)
Toronto's rebounding in this game is ####### awful.
   536. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:05 PM (#5836572)
I can only assume General Soreness means Gordon Hayward.
   537. JC in DC Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:06 PM (#5836573)
I missed the first half: where are Green and Gasol?
   538. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:09 PM (#5836575)
Really? People aren't familiar with Jimmy Butler missing games for the Twolves for "general soreness"?
   539. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:09 PM (#5836576)
Ben Simmons is so loose with the ball. I wonder what you could get for him.

anthony davis.
   540. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5836577)
Jimmy Butler is a headcase, but he can ####### ball.
   541. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5836578)
Really? People aren't familiar with Jimmy Butler missing games for the Twolves for "general soreness"?

if you want people to pay attention to you, hire sam hinkie or gtfo.
   542. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:14 PM (#5836579)
if you want people to pay attention to you, hire sam hinkie or gtfo.

But "General Soreness" is such a good nickname!
   543. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:21 PM (#5836581)
But "General Soreness" is such a good nickname!
hey, if it was up to me...but i don't make the rules.


what happens in MIN stays in MIN.
   544. JJ1986 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:23 PM (#5836583)
Simmons and Embiid have combined for 9 turnovers and 16 points on 17 shooting-possessions. And the Sixers are going to win.
   545. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5836585)
can someone remind kyle lowry that these are the playoffs?
   546. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:25 PM (#5836586)
PHI is completely gassed, btw.
   547. PJ Martinez Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:26 PM (#5836587)
That was an awesome bucket by Embiid with 24.3 to go.
   548. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:26 PM (#5836588)
This is a scrappy knife fight, but a fun one.
   549. spivey Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5836590)
What the actual #### was Kyle Lowry trying to do there?
   550. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:28 PM (#5836591)
can someone remind kyle lowry that these are the playoffs?

Well done.
   551. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5836592)
Fortunately we should see about 250 points scored in this next game.
   552. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5836594)
here's a fun one:
4853. aberg Posted: January 15, 2019 at 06:35 PM (#5805837)
Trade Machine, who says no:

NOP: Butler
OKC: Fultz, Muscala, Patton
ATL: Kormacz, A. Johnson
PHI: Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Justin Andrson, Noel, Okaofr, Luwawu-Cabarot, Poythress

4854. shout-out to 57i66135; that ####'s working now Posted: January 15, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5805838)
[bot]
Everyone but the Sixers
[/bot]

4855. shout-out to 57i66135; that ####'s working now Posted: January 15, 2019 at 06:41 PM (#5805839)
(i might take that deal by the way....)

   553. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2019 at 11:28 PM (#5836600)
(is noone here watching this other game?)
   554. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 29, 2019 at 11:34 PM (#5836601)
I'm watching. It's a fun game, if unevenly played. They have their own issues of course, but I don't think either of these teams can beat GS playing like this.
   555. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:07 AM (#5836608)
This game is getting kinda chippy, which is fun in game 1 of a playoff series. Not feeling great about the refereeing -- for most of the game it seemed like they were letting it go and in the last few minutes everything's a foul.

I have come around on Enes Kanter -- he makes the game more fun, both with his offense and his lack of defense.
   556. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:10 AM (#5836609)
Jokic going against Kanter must have been what Yi Jianlian against the chair was like.
   557. Tin Angel Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:19 AM (#5836611)
Jokic going against Kanter must have been what Yi Jianlian against the chair was like.


Really bummed Nurkic isn't available for this series.
   558. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:32 AM (#5836614)
But "General Soreness" is such a good nickname!


I hear he appears in the extended version of Revenge of the Sith.
   559. SteveF Posted: April 30, 2019 at 01:00 AM (#5836618)
Jamal Murray is intent on making this game last as long as possible.
   560. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 30, 2019 at 01:02 AM (#5836620)
Some notes from game 1:
* Jokic just dominated. The Blazers' only player who would even have a chance at containing him is in street clothes. It's going to be really rough for Portland. He just ate up Kanter, they tried Harkless also and he ate him up too. I think there were a few Meyers Leonard possessions, same result. They are going to have to double him.
* CJ was mostly invisible. He spent the majority of the game just kind of chilling, the Nuggets hid Murray on him for a good amount of that. He got shots and they let him run point every fifth possession or so but he didn't run around off the ball at all, he just stood around. Murray had a good game on O and I think some of that was because he expended no energy on D.
* Dame is so, so good.
   561. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2019 at 03:23 AM (#5836623)
What the actual #### was Kyle Lowry trying to do there?


DSPN: What The Absolute Hell Was Kyle Lowry Doing?

It was possible to miss this in realtime. I did. For one thing, it happened quickly, and devolved quickly into distracting chaos. For another, even if your eyes gathered the information and transmitted it whole to your brain, your brain may have processed it as an error and erased it, because it is just impossible to believe. Kyle Lowry, in a one-possession playoff game, with 20 seconds left on the clock, tried to nutmeg Sixers defender Tobias Harris
   562. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2019 at 03:30 AM (#5836624)
just for the record, i expect the sixers will lose game 3 and win game 6. i have no ####### idea about games 4 and 5, other than the sixers should probably try to win one of them.
   563. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 30, 2019 at 07:31 AM (#5836628)
I am no expert basketball strategist or anything. But I would try and win both of them. Crazy idea, I know.
   564. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2019 at 08:22 AM (#5836635)
Gonna make the bold claim that Toronto losing at home in a game in which Simmons and Embiid were both terrible is not great.
   565. spivey Posted: April 30, 2019 at 08:23 AM (#5836636)
Re: 561

I'd be more inclined to believe it just slipped out of his hands because WHO DOES THAT, but I believe Lowry nutmegged someone in the first half with a pass. I think it may have been Harris. Anyways, I think he really tried that, which is absurd. I agree with deadspin that it magically led to a scramble giving them a wide open Danny Green three, which they did not deserve, and it was one of the few rare times I rooted against him making it, because such clownery did not deserve to be rewarded.
   566. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 08:47 AM (#5836643)
The Rockets are a really weird organization. I'm perfectly fine with them lifting a 2018 Championship banner to the rafters just for the lolz, though.
   567. Belfry Bob Posted: April 30, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5836655)
As much as I enjoy watching the Warriors play, I loathe watching the incredibly talented James Hardin and Chris Paul leg kick and push off their way through games. (I note that, as usual, that final call Harden wasn't happy about not getting was initiated by his pushing the defender away.) The parsing of the verticality, side-to-side, the NBA 'reporting' to teams about the calls that were missed, etc, just took all the air out of Game One for me to the point where I don't think I'm going to watch the rest of the series - I'm not interested in scissor kicks, pushing, technical bating, replays from 5 different angles, listening to announcers and the ex-NBA official drone on all night about foul calls...I want to watch basketball.

And get off my lawn.
   568. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2019 at 09:32 AM (#5836658)
can someone remind kyle lowry that these are the playoffs?

He was really out of control at the very end, but also drilled the two open threes to get them back in with a couple minutes to go.

Just a terrible loss for them, though. The box score is kind of hilarious. The Sixers had 19 turnovers to Toronto's 9! Embiid looked less athletic than Boban (with the obvious exception of the massive play to put them up 3 late). Simmons got a DNP- Ghost, Harris scored 9, it's wild.

The 53-36 rebound advantage probably helped a bit, though, as did going 24-26 from the free throw line.
   569. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 30, 2019 at 09:38 AM (#5836661)
Every year when I was at Pitt they would have a great season and then lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament to a much lower seed because the refs were calling fouls that never got called in Big East play. Maybe Jamie Dixon should have started touring with a slide show to expose this injustice. That would probably have been received better than Morey's "Our playing style depends on fooling the referees and we are being unfairly singled out by these inappropriate efforts at accurate rule enforcement" manifesto, but nobody thought to do it.
   570. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: April 30, 2019 at 09:40 AM (#5836662)
Scott Foster is one of the refs for game 2 of GSW/HOU. If you wanted to fuel conspiracy theories...
   571. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 09:44 AM (#5836665)
Scott Foster is one of the refs for game 2 of GSW/HOU. If you wanted to fuel conspiracy theories...

Who is the conspiracy favoring? Everyone who follows the NBA think Foster is out to get their team specifically.
   572. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: April 30, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5836669)
it's wild.


I don't think so, actually. The main reason I like Philly's chances, as I said during the season, is their star power 1-4. Butler went for 30/11 last night, +7. He was not all that efficient, but he was good enough to be the go-to option on a night that Embiid and Simmons didn't do anything. We have seen this over and over again with Golden State since Durant got there. Curry or Thompson has a bad game, or Green does, or two of them do, but it doesn't matter because Durant goes off.

This goes back to why I have always thought that Toronto and Milwaukee, as good as they are, would have trouble with Boston and Philadelphia. Leonard and Antetokounmpo aren't going to average 45 a game (although Leonard is averaging 40 right now through two games) and there will be nights on which guys like Green, Ibaka, and Van Vleet will give you nothing, as they did last night.
   573. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5836674)
This goes back to why I have always thought that Toronto and Milwaukee, as good as they are, would have trouble with Boston and Philadelphia. Leonard and Antetokounmpo aren't going to average 45 a game (although Leonard is averaging 40 right now through two games) and there will be nights on which guys like Green, Ibaka, and Van Vleet will give you nothing, as they did last night.

Hmmm I think I'd take Toronto's starting 5? Am I alone on that?
   574. spivey Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5836676)
Unsure on the better starting lineup, but I definitely think Toronto has the better team. Before last night's game, Toronto was up 4-1 against Philly on the year, and I think defensively they counter a lot of what Philly does. I thought Toronto mostly got pretty good shots. I still think Toronto takes the series, relatively comfortably (as comfortable as playing a good team in the second round of the playoffs can be).
   575. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:14 AM (#5836678)
I think Milwaukee is going to lose the series to Boston, but I am really skeptical that it's Mike Budenholzer's fault. Milwaukee just doesn't have enough good players.
   576. Davo Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5836683)
They’re letting Scott Foster ref the GSW-HOU game tonight? Oof. Sorry Harden!
   577. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5836685)
from Windhorst.

"Veteran official Scott Foster has been assigned to Warriors-Rockets tonight.

Chris Paul, James Harden & Rockets have a long-running feud with Foster. He hasn’t worked a Rockets game since February, when Harden was fined for criticizing him after fouling out of a game in LA."
   578. JC in DC Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5836687)
Man, must see TV!
   579. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5836688)
I guess Adam Silver has let Morey and Co. what he thinks of their "analysis" then. The league can't be happy that the Rockets have made ref baiting the dominant story of the playoffs now.
   580. JC in DC Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5836694)
The league can't be happy that the Rockets have made ref baiting the dominant story of the playoffs now.


Pardon my cynicism, but of course they can. Stories are stories and stories attract eyeballs. I'm slightly more interested to watch tonight knowing Foster will officiate. Fans like drama. Rogue refs add drama.
   581. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5836695)
Zach Lowe, ruining the fun:
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA
To be clear, the league assigns the officials for the first two games of each series before said series begins.
   582. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:57 AM (#5836699)
Zach Lowe, ruining the fun:

Not necessarily. I'm sure the Rockets were whining before the series started so the league could have assigned Foster because they were already annoyed with them even before they leaked their BS.

Pardon my cynicism, but of course they can.

Just because it's cynical doesn't make it true. I think Silver would prefer the attention stay on Giannis and Embiid and Durant, etc. There's also the problem for the league that if the Rockets whining is perceived to work then all 30 teams will flood the league office with Zapruder films of phantom fouls and Harvard quant analysis of points cheated per game. Who wants to deal with that? I'd kill a man before having to wade through all that shit.
   583. Davo Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5836702)
Of course, Foster shouldn’t be reffing ANY basketball games. Cuz of, ya know, the whole “fixed games with Tim Donaghy’s bookies” thing.
   584. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 30, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5836703)
more context from Bref:

Since the 2017 postseason the Rockets are 0-6 when Scott Foster refs their games. They have averaged more FT/FTA and fewer PF than their opponents in these games. However, HOU has shot 28.2% on 3s, while opps have shot 39.6% (3 more makes on 58 fewer atts)
   585. Davo Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5836705)
Rockets were 0 and 6 in games reffed by obvious felon Scott Foster this year.
   586. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5836708)
I hope Foster has money on the Dubs to cover tonight.
   587. JC in DC Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5836710)
I think Silver would prefer the attention stay on Giannis and Embiid and Durant, etc.


The attention can be on all those and more! Some people watch wrestling for the matches; others for the women; still others for the mic-work.
   588. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5836712)
People still watch wrestling? My god.
   589. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5836713)
More important than Foster calling the game is whether Van Gundy and Jackson are calling the game? I've gotten to where I can't listen to the sound when those two are calling a game. Jeff Van Gundy has become a parrot who has only memorized reasons why I shouldn't enjoy watching NBA basketball or where he and Mark Jackson has dinner. I'm baffled he's ESPN's star announcer. It would be like making me the DJ for an XM Billy Joel channel.
   590. JC in DC Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5836715)
Doesn't this site have a thread devoted to it? I haven't seriously watched wrestling since the days of Chief "Jay" Strongbow, aka, Joe Scarpa, in the greatest ever instance of cultural appropriation.
   591. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5836720)
Wrestling is America's safe way of indulging in homo-eroticism so it's really not surprising how popular it is. You Scots have whisky to sublimate those tingly under feelings...Speaking of that, I cannot wait to get to the Whisky Exchange in London and stock up on single cask treasures. Good ############# times!

Now, back to basketball--Scott Foster sucks!
   592. SoSH U at work Posted: April 30, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5836721)
Chief "Jay" Strongbow, aka, Joe Scarpa, in the greatest ever instance of cultural appropriation.


I thought that was the Italian guy who got really emotional about litter.
   593. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5836744)
@MZavagno11

Does the data say that we will see shooting progression and regression in BOS/MIL? Surprising answer is not really! Both teams were within 5 points of their expected 3-point shooting percentage based on the shooter and how closely he was guarded. Full charts below
   594. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5836748)
The progression/regression I'm expecting to see tonight is Giannis: The Progressioning.
   595. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5836750)
Me too; I expect he'll be a lot more effective at the rim and that he'll do a better job passing out of coverage.
   596. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: April 30, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5836753)
I just want to watch Giannis dunking on all the fools. Can we get more of that tonight, please?
   597. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: April 30, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5836765)
I just want to watch Giannis dunking on all the fools. Can we get more of that tonight, please?


Me too. But I have a sinking feeling Brad Stevens feels differently.
   598. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 30, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5836766)
I just want to watch Giannis dunking on all the fools. Can we get more of that tonight, please?

Denied!!
   599. Davo Posted: April 30, 2019 at 02:12 PM (#5836791)
I still can’t get over that there’s a guy reffing an NBA game in 2019 who was an obvious co-conspirator in Tim Donaghy’s gambling/point-shaving scheme. My God. How is this not a bigger scandal?????
   600. Davo Posted: April 30, 2019 at 02:13 PM (#5836793)
Flip
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