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Thursday, September 26, 2019

OT - NBA thread (pre-season)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about baseball, and this thread is the only thing keeping this site alive.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: September 26, 2019 at 09:56 AM | 762 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   101. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 27, 2019 at 03:49 PM (#5883773)
If they move Beal - and they maybe should - they could easily challenge for the worst record in the league.
   102. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 27, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5883781)
So, uhhhh, I'd bet the under in DC.
   103. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: September 27, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5883817)
I'd bet the under in DC.
Just wait until Isaiah Thomas goes off, now that he's finally healt—
Washington Wizards guard Isaiah Thomas underwent successful surgery to repair a rupture of the radial collateral ligament of his [shooting hand] thumb
oh for ##### sake
   104. JC in DC Posted: September 27, 2019 at 06:25 PM (#5883830)
At least it wasn't his off-hand!
   105. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 27, 2019 at 07:17 PM (#5883839)
Thanks Der-K. I did forget about Bertans, that's probably a couple wins (over his likely below replacement level substitute).
   106. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: September 28, 2019 at 12:32 AM (#5883936)
trade machine: who says no?

CHO: andrew wiggins
PHI: nic batum, marvin williams
MIN: tobias harris
   107. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: September 28, 2019 at 12:35 AM (#5883938)
i'm not sure that "better than andrew wiggins" is a great selling point, but i'm reasonably confident it's not inaccurate.
   108. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: September 28, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5883970)
Minnesota. They should do Batum straight up for Twiggins.
   109. JJ1986 Posted: September 30, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5884562)
John Hollinger is now with The Athletic.
   110. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: September 30, 2019 at 07:52 PM (#5884799)
“Getting to the basket much more,” Tatum said, emphasizing “much.” “Shoot more threes. Threes and layups. And free throws. If you want to be a great scorer in this league, you have to get to the line. Free throws is super important. Getting to the basket and that opens up the rest of the game. Threes are worth more than twos.”
And here I was thinking I wouldn't get my hopes unreasonably high before the season starts.
   111. jmurph Posted: October 01, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5884961)
NBA Math @NBA_Math
Depth Pieces: 2.50 to 3.49
12. Chandler Parsons, 2.67 (0.05 up)
11. Vince Carter, 2.73 (0.27 down)
10. DeAndre’ Bembry, 3.07 (0.55 down)
9. Cam Reddish, 3.07 (Not graded after 2018-19)
8. Evan Turner, 3.2 (0.26 down)

Just saw this list of players and it took me a minute to figure out which team they were discussing.
   112. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 01, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5884963)
Will go a little OTP here:

California introduced what could be a landmark bill (SB 206) to help end the immorality of the NCAA from making billions of dollars of its athletes without having to pay them anything beyond the cost of education, while also preventing them from making any money off of their own likeness. LeBron James played a central role in helping to make this happen, and even had California Governor Gavin Newsom on his HBO show, “The Shop,” to sign the bill into law


I think it’s a great day. It’s a win, obviously, here in California,” James told reporters. “I’m just honored to be a part of it and be with the governor and for him to understand what these athletes have been going through for so many years. So, it’s the start of something that we believe is special.


The PAC-12 echoed that (NCAA) sentiment in its own statement:

The Pac-12 is disappointed in the passage of SB 206 and believes it will have very significant negative consequences for our student-athletes and broader universities in California. This legislation will lead to the professionalization of college sports and many unintended consequences related to this professionalism, imposes a state law that conflicts with national rules, will blur the lines for how California universities recruit student-athletes and compete nationally, and will likely reduce resources and opportunities for student-athletes in Olympic sports and have a negative disparate impact on female student-athletes.

Our universities have led important student-athlete reform over the past years, but firmly believe all reforms must treat our student-athletes as students pursuing an education, and not as professional athletes. We will work with our universities to determine next steps and ensure continuing support for our student-athletes.


LINK
   113. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 01, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5884964)
I was one of those underprivileged kids,” James said. “I was fortunate enough and talented enough to be able to skip college, but for sure I would have been one of those kids if I had went off to Ohio State, or if I had went off to any of these big-time colleges where that 23 jersey would have gotten sold all over the place. Without my name on the back, but everybody would have known the likeness. My body would have been on the NCAA basketball game (in) 2004. And Schottenstein Center would have been sold out every single night if I was there.

“Me and my mom, we didn’t have anything and we wouldn’t have been able to benefit at all from it, and the university would have been able to capitalize on everything,” James continued. “So I understand what those kids are going through, I feel for those kids who have been going through it for so long, and that’s why it was personal for me.”
   114. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 01, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5884966)
One of my students pointed out to me today that Opening Night, including Lakers v. Clippers, is exactly three weeks from tonight.
   115. KronicFatigue Posted: October 01, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5884976)
Other states HAVE to follow California, right? If not, California schools are going to have an extreme advantage. Not just for the Lebron's, but for pretty much any level of talent that has any kind of marketability. A single shoe deal, however small, can be life altering money at that age.
   116. KronicFatigue Posted: October 01, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5884982)
Also, I find the pac 12 response pretty offensive.

-lead to the professionalization of college sports- It's already at 100% professionalization.

-imposes a state law that conflicts with national rules- So?

-blur the lines for how California universities recruit student-athletes and compete nationally- Will improve their ability to recruit and compete

-reduce resources and opportunities for student-athletes in Olympic sports- No. If you want to maintain Olympic eligibility, go play for a different state or refuse any deals. Same number of kids will be going to the Olympics, if that's what they care about.

-a negative disparate impact on female student-athletes- They're saying that women aren't popular enough to get endorsement deals?? Even if men are paid more than women, I'm going to guess most women would prefer something over nothing.


   117. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 01, 2019 at 01:34 PM (#5884991)
-imposes a state law that conflicts with national rules- So?


That is a grotesquely disingenuous argument. The NCAA is a national organization, but it's not--the NCAA loves to lead the public to believe it is, but it is not--a government organization. That would be like Amazon saying, "well, OUR rules say minimum wage is $2.50 an hour, so any state that says otherwise is in conflict with our national rules."

It's the other way around, fellas.

Also--Olympic sports? They don't play football in the Olympics, and professionals have been playing basketball in the Olympics for nearly 30 years. That ship's long gone. No one playing any other sport at the college level is going to be getting an endorsement deal anytime soon.
   118. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 01, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5884992)
au contraire, i'm sure many non-fb/mbb athletes would get endorsement deals.
(i am pro sb206)
   119. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 01, 2019 at 02:18 PM (#5885010)
Just saw this list of players and it took me a minute to figure out which team they were discussing.


I still don't know. I presume it's the Hawks because Vince would probably return to them after last year?

Also--Olympic sports? They don't play football in the Olympics, and professionals have been playing basketball in the Olympics for nearly 30 years. That ship's long gone. No one playing any other sport at the college level is going to be getting an endorsement deal anytime soon.


No way. Swimmers, gymnasts for example. A couple of them may merit being billboards or in ads on ESPN, and many others would be able to endorse equipment targeted at aspiring swimmers and gymnasts.

In 2002 Jeremy Bloom got paid endorsements for his exploits as an Olympic skier, which then led the NCAA to kick him off the University of Colorado football team (for which he was NOT good enough to be paid).
   120. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 01, 2019 at 02:30 PM (#5885014)
No way. Swimmers, gymnasts for example. A couple of them may merit being billboards or in ads on ESPN, and many others would be able to endorse equipment targeted at aspiring swimmers and gymnasts.

In 2002 Jeremy Bloom got paid endorsements for his exploits as an Olympic skier, which then led the NCAA to kick him off the University of Colorado football team (for which he was NOT good enough to be paid).
he was a 4th round pick, so there was at least one NFL team disagreed with that opinion.
   121. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 01, 2019 at 02:38 PM (#5885017)
carter was the last of those to sign, actually. but yes.
   122. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 01, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5885019)
-a negative disparate impact on female student-athletes- They're saying that women aren't popular enough to get endorsement deals?? Even if men are paid more than women, I'm going to guess most women would prefer something over nothing.
I imagine the argument is less to do with endorsements directly and more to do with the fact that if universities earn less money from the likenesses of their most famous marquee athletes, the funds that they are legally obligated (because of title IX) to share between men's and women's teams will be smaller. I wouldn't be surprised if this were also overstated—I don't understand the flow of money through a major DI college sports program in any detail—but I find it easily the most compelling ingredient in that #### sandwich.
   123. jmurph Posted: October 01, 2019 at 02:46 PM (#5885022)
All of the NCAA's arguments seem to basically be "but this will make it difficult for us to continue to do the bad things." But uhhhhh, right, that's the idea.
   124. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 01, 2019 at 05:04 PM (#5885088)
It's 95% that and 5%, "But the law forces us to partially allocate our illegitimately monopolized billions to women's sports! Do you hate women's sports???"
   125. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: October 01, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5885164)
My feelings about the Plantation League are well recorded here, so I won't reiterate. But man, California -- good job.
   126. JJ1986 Posted: October 01, 2019 at 09:29 PM (#5885203)
For my own sake to catch up with the league, I'm going through team's rosters and listing their starters and top 5 bench players. And some of these teams have atrocious depth. The Wizards perimeter players are backup-quality PG Ish Smith, Bradley Beal, unready Troy Brown and then - with Isaiah Thomas and CJ Miles injured - come Isaac Bonga, Admiral Schofield and Jermerrio Jones or Jordan McCrae. This would be a bad G-League team without Beal.
   127. Booey Posted: October 02, 2019 at 05:43 PM (#5885608)
Since we're still in the "Killing time before the season starts" stage of the year, here's the next 5 on the Hoopshype Top 100 of the 21st Centruy List (man, they're really milking this thing for all it's worth):

10 - Shaquille O'Neal
9 - Chris Paul
8 - Kevin Garnett
7 - Dwyane Wade
6 - Steph Curry

A few things I predicted:

- KG was going to be criminally underrated
- The ringless CP3 wasn't going to finish ahead of multi title stars like Wade, advanced stats be damned
- They seem to value career over peak (except with Garnett), so Dirk was going to beat out partial career guys like Curry
- Durant was going to rank higher than Steph, too
   128. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 03, 2019 at 01:11 AM (#5885788)
jimmy butler just showed up at the sixers' practice facility and he challenged the entire janitorial staff to a game of 1 on 5.

he didn't take a shot in the entire game; he just kept passing the ball to mike james, and now he's going back to the airport.


it was really weird.
   129. aberg Posted: October 03, 2019 at 02:23 PM (#5885973)
Guys you clearly don't understand the pay to play bill. If other states follow suit, pretty soon boosters will be giving money to players to get them to come to their schools. Teams like Duke, Kentucky, and North Carolina in mbb will have an unfair advantage because they'll get most of the best players because they are the "brands" that will have the most money to invest in players. The same few schools will go into every season as the favorite. The sport will become unrecognizable with all the best players on those teams and getting paid.
   130. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 03, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5885975)
Yikes aberg, you're right! The only fair solution is to institute an NCAA draft!
   131. aberg Posted: October 03, 2019 at 02:26 PM (#5885977)
For my own sake to catch up with the league, I'm going through team's rosters and listing their starters and top 5 bench players. And some of these teams have atrocious depth. The Wizards perimeter players are backup-quality PG Ish Smith, Bradley Beal, unready Troy Brown and then - with Isaiah Thomas and CJ Miles injured - come Isaac Bonga, Admiral Schofield and Jermerrio Jones or Jordan McCrae. This would be a bad G-League team without Beal.


Everything about them screams "tank" except their unwillingness (so far) to trade Beal.
   132. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 03, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5886053)
[129] I can live with that but what I'm worried about is that schools would compromise the integrity of their admissions process, possibly extending offers to kids who wouldn't otherwise fit in academically, having some fairly sham majors and classes for them to take, increasing the geographical footprint of their conferences to get more revenue in a way that made academics even harder due to increased travel, and thus ending up with kids who are just using college sports as a bridge to their NBA dream. I think that would be a real shame.
   133. aberg Posted: October 03, 2019 at 05:18 PM (#5886079)
[129] I can live with that but what I'm worried about is that schools would compromise the integrity of their admissions process, possibly extending offers to kids who wouldn't otherwise fit in academically, having some fairly sham majors and classes for them to take, increasing the geographical footprint of their conferences to get more revenue in a way that made academics even harder due to increased travel, and thus ending up with kids who are just using college sports as a bridge to their NBA dream. I think that would be a real shame.


FOR SHAME!
   134. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 03, 2019 at 06:23 PM (#5886098)
Guys you clearly don't understand the pay to play bill. If other states follow suit, pretty soon boosters will be giving money to players to get them to come to their schools. Teams like Duke, Kentucky, and North Carolina in mbb will have an unfair advantage because they'll get most of the best players because they are the "brands" that will have the most money to invest in players. The same few schools will go into every season as the favorite. The sport will become unrecognizable with all the best players on those teams and getting paid.

*slaps the back of my sarcasm detector*
   135. tshipman Posted: October 03, 2019 at 08:39 PM (#5886191)
The real people who are being hurt by the California law are all the volunteer student-coaches and athletic directors.

Those kids are the real amateurs, nobly volunteering to help out from the goodness of their own hearts.
   136. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 04, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5886490)
Dwight Howard is in the best shape of his life, and he is channeling The Big Dipper. No word on Howard's position on SB206, but I will keep the thread informed:

“That’s my favorite player ... Wilt is my favorite player. I’ve looked up tons of videos on him, I have a Wilt Chamberlain painting in my room ... I was about to get ‘Wilt Chamberlain’ tatted on my arm right here. He’s my favorite player, and he’s one of my favorite people in life. The thing that he did was sacrifice.

“A lot of time it’s hard for us to sacrifice, because we want to be that person, when the only thing that matters is getting another trophy. And when Wilt decided ‘Hey, I’ve done all the scoring, I’ve done all the other stuff, let me just do what this team is asking me to do,’ he had one of the best seasons of his career. He won a championship. I want to have that same approach, and bring out the will inside of me and help this team win.”


link
   137. stanmvp48 Posted: October 04, 2019 at 03:25 PM (#5886558)
I just learned that coaches will get to challenge one call (charge vs. block, for example) per game. I don't think this is a great idea
   138. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 04, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5886578)
I would love it (both as a way to make coaches' challenges not suck and for reviews in general) if we could hear the referees on mic during reviews, explaining the points under discussion as they review the footage. It was part of the FIBA broadcast in the world cup and it was drastically better than how the NBA broadcast handles video reviews.
   139. Hombre Brotani Posted: October 04, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5886583)
129 and 132 are gold, I tell you. Gold.
   140. Yardape Posted: October 04, 2019 at 04:29 PM (#5886584)
No one playing any other sport at the college level is going to be getting an endorsement deal anytime soon.


I think you could make a case that Kathryn Plummer and Katelyn Ohashi are more marketable than any other current NCAA stories in California.
   141. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 04, 2019 at 05:14 PM (#5886598)
Kathryn Plummer and Katelyn Ohashi
Not sure there's a point to this #analysis, but those are two drastically different-sized people.
   142. Booey Posted: October 04, 2019 at 06:24 PM (#5886618)
I just learned that coaches will get to challenge one call (charge vs. block, for example) per game. I don't think this is a great idea


That sounds okay in theory, but in reality it's just going to add to the slog at the end of close games. Coaches are going to save their challenge just like they do with their timeouts and then burn them all in the final minute - even on obviously correct calls - just to get another free timeout.
   143. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 04, 2019 at 06:32 PM (#5886619)
That sounds okay in theory


No it doesn't. It sounds terrible. These are judgment bang-bang plays and it's going to make the whole thing even more political to have them called twice.
   144. Booey Posted: October 04, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5886621)
No it doesn't. It sounds terrible. These are judgment bang-bang plays and it's going to make the whole thing even more political to have them called twice.


I was thinking more of the plays where they call a foul on a clean block, or miss an obvious hack across the arm or something like that, where a replay could clearly tell if the call was wrong, same as it does on out-of-bounds or block vs goaltend calls.

Or can it be used ONLY on blocking vs charging calls? Even though I disagree with many of them, I agree that pure judgment calls like those would be best left out of this kind of review.
   145. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 04, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5886622)
A challenge must come immediately after the play and challenges of out-of-bounds calls, goaltending or basket interference will not be permitted in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or the last two minutes of overtime.
So at least there are a few restrictions on challenges at the end of games.
Coaches are going to save their challenge just like they do with their timeouts and then burn them all in the final minute - even on obviously correct calls - just to get another free timeout.
Their team will lose a timeout if the challenge is unsuccessful, which I imagine exists specifically to avoid this type of gamesmanship.

It looks like the league is at least making an effort to stay ahead of that, but I'm not convinced this won't, in practice, just slow games down even further.
   146. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: October 04, 2019 at 08:45 PM (#5886672)
I abjure, reject, and detest all replay, and this is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, as far as I'm concerned.
   147. Booey Posted: October 05, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5886803)
Does anyone know where to find the real heights of players that the league is forcing teams to provide now...or have they not been released yet? While it's silly that the NBA is making something so trivial a top priority, admit it...y'all are curious how certain players measure up. JJ Barea isn't six foot. Draymond isn't 6'7". On my own team, I don't believe Mitchell is really 6'3" (unless you're counting hair). And on the flipside, Durant isn't "only" 6'9".

These are the types of things that keep me up at night...
   148. tshipman Posted: October 05, 2019 at 03:34 PM (#5886849)
Does anyone know where to find the real heights of players that the league is forcing teams to provide now...or have they not been released yet? While it's silly that the NBA is making something so trivial a top priority, admit it...y'all are curious how certain players measure up. JJ Barea isn't six foot. Draymond isn't 6'7". On my own team, I don't believe Mitchell is really 6'3" (unless you're counting hair). And on the flipside, Durant isn't "only" 6'9".


They haven't all been released. Teams are supposed to do it this weekend.

Here's Philly:

Ben Simmons officially taller than Al Horford.
   149. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 05, 2019 at 05:13 PM (#5886890)
Ben Simmons officially taller than Al Horford.
that's not a surprise, though, right? i'm pretty sure simmons is also taller than karl towns.

embiid either picked the wrong week to get cornrows, or he picked the perfect week to get cornrows. i'm not sure which one is more likely.
   150. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: October 05, 2019 at 05:58 PM (#5886902)
'Christ' Koumadje isn't his real first name. It's just what everyone says, the first time they meet him in person.
   151. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 05, 2019 at 08:23 PM (#5886967)
Said heights are available for many players from when they went through the combine process... (like Green was 6-5.75 barefoot).
That said, NBA heights are in shoes - so 6-7 seems reasonable for him.
   152. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 05, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5886976)
I'm here to over-react to looking at the first half box score of a preseason game...

....maybe Anthony Davis and LeBron are going to be so good that all the talk (edit - kvetching) about their supporting cast will seem absurd in June?

Oh and just realizing the Lakers added an Antetokounmpo to the roster. Already planning ahead.
   153. Booey Posted: October 05, 2019 at 09:39 PM (#5886979)
Here's Philly:


Hmmm. A part of me is actually disappointed that these are all basically what you'd expect when you subtract shoes from the players listed heights. I want some (incredibly irrelevant and benign) scandals, dammit!
   154. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 06, 2019 at 12:29 AM (#5887001)
@DerekBodnerNBA
What did you think of Matisse today? Ben Simmons: "I hate him. I hate him on defense." Simmons, who was matched up against him a lot today, said Thybulle was amazing defensively.

@TomMoorePhilly
Unofficially, I have Matisse Thybulle with 5 steals and a blocked shot in the first half of the #Sixers intrasquad scrimmage. Also converted an old-fashioned three-point play.

@DerekBodnerNBA
Trey Burke will be happy he doesn't have to play against the #sixers frontcourt when the season starts. Has really struggled getting shots up over Embiid and Horford.

@KyleNeubeck
Thybulle has been flat-out terrific on defense so far today. Just came up with a hell of a block in transition on a Richardson three-point attempt

@TomMoorePhilly
Josh Richardson: ‘I’m not coming in here trying to be Jimmy Redick.’ #Sixers
   155. Booey Posted: October 06, 2019 at 01:23 AM (#5887008)
Jazz win their 1st preseason game by 52 (133-81), despite sitting Gobert, Mitchell, and Conley. No need to look up who they were playing. I'm sure it was a contender.
   156. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 06, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5887017)
From Yu Fu (a Rockets correspondent) on Twitter:

“Rockets has been removed from mainstream platforms in China for now...don't know what's going to happen next, might be banned for a while.”
“Tencent (NBA broadcast partner) now offers "switch home team" option to Rockets fans who bought single team pass. It could be the signal that Rockets games won't be broadcasted from now on. We will see the result next week.“
“Chinese Basketball Association announced that they will cut off all cooperation with Houston Rockets. Rockets former superstar Yao Ming is the president of CBA.”
“SPDB, a Rockets sponsor from China, announced that they will stop all marketing and promotion activities related to Rockets.”
   157. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 06, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5887022)
This is in response to Morey tweeting in support of Hong Kong demonstrators (a delete he subsequently deleted). The team owner already came out with a “Morey doesn’t speak for the team” type statement.
   158. jmurph Posted: October 06, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5887038)
“Authoritarians buy shoes, too,” the NBA, presumably.
   159. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 06, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5887043)
Murderous tyrants, more like, but yeah, basically.

I'm half-surprised Rockets ownership didn't accede to the Chinese government's presumed demand for Morey's immediate termination. There's a LOT of money in play there (and, IMO, Morey will be gone within a year or two anyway).
   160. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 06, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5887066)
Don’t focus on the result! The thing to focus on is not whether the ball went in—it very much did not—but whether Fultz looked like one of those floppy car dealership inflatable dancer guys on his release. Which, ah, hmm. You know what, let’s go look at that dunk again.

shitty MF shooting form update


   161. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 06, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5887081)
[148] I read through that list and it took a while for my brain to process that Haywood Highsmith is not, in fact, the former Utah All-Star swingman (I was surprised I had missed him moving from the Celtics).
   162. Booey Posted: October 06, 2019 at 06:08 PM (#5887098)
#161 - That was my first thought as well!
   163. tshipman Posted: October 06, 2019 at 07:00 PM (#5887127)
Here is the updated list for Boston (including Gorgonzola Halloumi).

Hayward lost an inch, Taytum one of the few guys to not lose anything.
   164. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: October 06, 2019 at 08:18 PM (#5887178)
....maybe Anthony Davis and LeBron are going to be so good that all the talk (edit - kvetching) about their supporting cast will seem absurd in June?


Problem is that they don't have anybody else who can do much on his own, so when Davis or James rests/is a little nicked up, they will probably have trouble. But when Davis and James are both out there and the 3s are dropping at a reasonable rate, they will be very tough.

154:

Breathless scrimmage updates are the social media-era's "best shape of his life." The big thing from Lakers' camp is Avery Bradley's amazing on-ball defense. Vogel said some stuff after the first scrimmage about how "no one should dribble near Avery Bradley."
   165. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 06, 2019 at 09:29 PM (#5887205)
From what I was told, Morey has friends in Hong Kong and was concerned with their safety, in light of the Chinese government’s ongoing attempts to restrict freedom of speech and assembly in their fight with Hong Kong over the extradition bill. Morey did what he thought was right, but his actions had significant unintended consequences.

...League sources told me that Rockets ownership has “absolutely discussed” whether Morey should be removed as general manager in an attempt to mitigate the fallout, appease the Chinese government and business interests, and reestablish ties. League sources also indicated that Morey is aware that those discussions have happened and is bracing for that possibility.

link


in wholly unrelated news, 12 chinese nationals who are not at all affiliated with the chinese government just purchased lifetime memberships at mar-a-lego.
   166. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 06, 2019 at 09:34 PM (#5887207)
154:

Breathless scrimmage updates are the social media-era's "best shape of his life." The big thing from Lakers' camp is Avery Bradley's amazing on-ball defense. Vogel said some stuff after the first scrimmage about how "no one should dribble near Avery Bradley."

the lakers depth chart at guard:
rondo
caruso
cook
daniels
stockton
jackson


"no one"
   167. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 01:08 AM (#5887258)
@SopanDeb
NEW: the NBA has released a statement on Daryl Morey:

...

@SopanDeb
Per our ace Hong Kong team, this is the translation of the NBA's statement issued in Chinese on Sina Weibo: Note, calls Morey's statement "inappropriate" and that he "undoubtedly seriously hurt the feelings of Chinese basketball fans."
   168. . Posted: October 07, 2019 at 06:06 AM (#5887260)
Hopefully it's now clear to everyone that the NBA's reputation for wokeness was entirely bogus.
   169. Paul d mobile Posted: October 07, 2019 at 08:19 AM (#5887270)
Raptors give Lowry a one year, 31 million extension
   170. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: October 07, 2019 at 09:50 AM (#5887287)
Hopefully it's now clear to everyone that the NBA's reputation for wokeness was entirely bogus.

Not at all. It's just that there are limits to everyone's "wokeness", and we've discovered the NBA's.
   171. puck Posted: October 07, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5887301)
Hmm, the English statement does not say "inappropriate" though it does say "regrettable." Still, it's more of the sort of lukewarm non-apology that people tend to give in press releases nowadays.

I guess I am sort of happy with the weasel-wordiness of it? I would not expect the NBA to throw all financial considerations out the door. Would be interesting to see how they'd react to a player tweeting the same.
   172. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5887309)
Not at all. It's just that there are limits to everyone's "wokeness", and we've discovered the NBA's.

Don't feed, especially in here.

---

I'm pro-replay in theory, but against the execution of it in almost every sport. If the NFL didn't come up with coach's challenges, would any of the leagues come up with them on their own? I'd think not, as it's just a stupid idea.
   173. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5887310)
Not at all. It's just that there are limits to everyone's "wokeness", and we've discovered the NBA's.


That being, "Don't #### with the Chinese cash cow".
   174. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5887311)
Also, did someone run Harden's statement through Babelfish twice?

"We apologize. You know, we love China. We love playing there,” Harden said. “For both of us individually, we go there once or twice a year. They show us the most important love.”

"The most important love"?
   175. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5887318)
"The most important love"?


Happy endings.
   176. aberg Posted: October 07, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5887320)
Most of media reaction I've seen has generally come down pretty hard on Morey. I thought I was losing my mind. I'm glad to see that most of the reaction here has also been that he made a fairly reasonable statement and the reaction from the authoritarian government is the unreasonable one.

I'm pro-replay in theory, but against the execution of it in almost every sport. If the NFL didn't come up with coach's challenges, would any of the leagues come up with them on their own? I'd think not, as it's just a stupid idea.


I am almost entirely anti-replay. I have come to accept that it's going to happen no matter what. My preference would be that refs can only review replays at full speed and that they only get to watch replays for 30 seconds before it's ruled "Indeterminate- call stands." If the point is to get rid of the clearly bad calls, let's do that without mucking up every other play.
   177. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 12:12 PM (#5887328)
The league cowered in this instance only because the Chinese government actually has the ability to do what thick-necked Americans in Oakleys who like to burn shoes on their lawn wish they could: put a giant hole in the NBA’s business.

That’s what makes the response from the league so crazy-making. It’s all been tuned in a way that makes it seem as if Morey’s crime was wounding Chinese basketball fans all over the world, when in fact all he really did that was damaging to the league was piss off a group of extremely rich and powerful people who are committed to denying the civil liberties of those living in Hong Kong. In this way, the NBA has participated in its own kind of disinformation campaign, muddying up a rather straightforward set of actions and consequences in a way that’s meant only to provide personal satisfaction to the rich and powerful men that Morey crossed. At least now we know that you actually can put a price tag on the league’s dignity and supposed commitment to free speech.
DSPN
   178. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 07, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5887333)
Obvious points follow:
1. I personally support the protestors.
2. I'm disappointed in, but not surprised by, the NBA's collective response to date - league, players, and ownership. This impacts their bottom line in ways other things don't.
3. Politicians are seemingly universally not with China here. Also not a surprise.
4. If Morey were let go (and I don't think he and their owner had a strong relationship), I wonder what his employment options would look like? Could this get you blackballed?
   179. . Posted: October 07, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5887353)
A Chinese communist sympathizer (Taiwanese, so a turncoat, too) owns the Brooklyn Nets.

Nice work, NBA.

(And particularly nice how, in true authoritarian fashion, he arrogated onto himself the ability to speak for 1.4 billion other people and has the belief only an authoritarian can possess, that somehow each of those 1.4 billion people is of precisely the same opinion on the matter.)
   180. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5887365)
2. I'm disappointed in, but not surprised by, the NBA's collective response to date - league, players, and ownership. This impacts their bottom line in ways other things don't.

i actually think this will come to be seen as a massive blunder.

china's willingness to exert an overbearing amount of financial and political pressure in response to a nearly innocuous expression of dissent is the exact reason why millions of people are protesting in hong kong right now.


at some point, the NBA should have asked themselves 'why is this issue so important to china'? well, a worst case scenario is that they'll use this new power of extradition to make thousands of their political opponents disappear. however, that's not the true purpose of this; the true purpose is to terrorize the citizens of hong kong into self-enforced compliance...which is exactly what china just did to the NBA.

that's why this is important.
that's why this is dangerous.
   181. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 07, 2019 at 01:48 PM (#5887381)
Sure. But that doesn't incent the NBA to do the right thing.
   182. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 07, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5887390)
i actually think this will come to be seen as a massive blunder.
I might agree, but that's not the same thing as saying that, from an amoral analysis, it will be a blunder (for the record, my personal leanings are quite strongly civil libertarian/anti-authoritarian, and I find this whole thing to be pretty awful). The people who disapprove of the NBA's response (do not comprise nearly as big a threat to the NBA's business as the people who just (temporarily, one hopes) disappeared the Rockets for most Chinese fans, and I imagine the NBA will happily trade a little public disapproval for to money that comes from access to 1.4 billion more eyeballs.
   183. aberg Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5887391)
I don't know where the tipping point is, but the reason China is profitable for the NBA is that the NBA is wildly popular in China. Maybe a billion people really would be so offended by Morey's tweet that they would lose popularity. Maybe more likely, the Chinese government would suppress access to the market for the league (that's probably not the thing that would cause a civilian uprising, but who knows?). My point here is that I think the league would remain popular with most Chinese people even if they didn't kowtow to the autocrats.
   184. The Good Face Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5887392)
Most of media reaction I've seen has generally come down pretty hard on Morey. I thought I was losing my mind. I'm glad to see that most of the reaction here has also been that he made a fairly reasonable statement and the reaction from the authoritarian government is the unreasonable one.


That Chinese money speaks volumes. Consider that The Athletic simply didn't cover the story. AT ALL. It's not on the front page. It's not on the NBA page. It's not even on the Houston Rockets page. It just never happened apparently.
   185. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5887393)
I think the league would remain popular with most Chinese people even if they didn't kowtow to the autocrats.
That presupposes the autocrats are independent from the average Chinese fan's access to the NBA, which is not the case.
   186. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5887410)
Sure. But that doesn't incent the NBA to do the right thing.
i guess that could be true if your valuation of "incent" is limited only to revenue.
I might agree, but that's not the same thing as saying that, from an amoral analysis, it will be a blunder
amorality is not possible when death is on the line. when there is blood on the scales, the only moral choice is to be on the side that helps people. anything less is a choice to be on the other side.
The people who disapprove of the NBA's response (do not comprise nearly as big a threat to the NBA's business as the people who just (temporarily, one hopes) disappeared the Rockets for most Chinese fans, and I imagine the NBA will happily trade a little public disapproval for to money that comes from access to 1.4 billion more eyeballs.

other stakeholders are still sitting on the sidelines. judging by china's reaction to morey, if lebron, kerr and pop take the same public position, china will either have to back down (which they can't and won't), or china will escalate the situation again, meaning the NBA's current position will be untenable and they will be forced into doing what they should have done in the first place.

   187. The Good Face Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5887418)
other stakeholders are still sitting on the sidelines. judging by china's reaction to morey, if lebron, kerr and pop take the same public position, china will either have to back down (which they can't and won't), or china will escalate the situation again, meaning the NBA's current position will be untenable and they will be forced into doing what they should have done in the first place.


Based on Harden's response, I expect the silence will be overwhelming.

It's easy to be "brave" and "outspoken" when you're saying things the media and wealthy elites agree with. Bravery is when you speak out knowing there's a real likelihood of serious repercussions.
   188. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5887419)
That Chinese money speaks volumes. Consider that The Athletic simply didn't cover the story. AT ALL. It's not on the front page. It's not on the NBA page. It's not even on the Houston Rockets page. It just never happened apparently.


This is not true. I have been getting notified by the Athletic, phone and web, regarding these tweets. So I don't know what Athletic you use, but the one I use is covering this story. No idea about the "front page", but it is clearly covering the story.

Additionally the NBA is a business not Amnesty International. I would prefer everyone and every organization work for justice, but that just ain't happening. That said, I encourage people to put pressure on the NBA to do the right thing, because that pressure is what makes business suck less.
   189. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5887421)
DSPN, again:
This is clearly a case of Morey backtracking because he dared to indirectly #### with the NBA’s money, all because he vocally supported human rights. This is China making their suppression of free speech contagious through the language of money—as they’ve done with other American corporate monoliths such as Google and Apple—and the NBA’s owners and executives are more than happy to participate in that little currency exchange
...
For the NBA’s media partners and other affiliated media, there’s no money to be had in supporting the helpless and disenfranchised. They train their pundits and designated yappers to be utterly unable to discuss ANY of this in depth. This is fair to a point—no one is asking Golic and Wingo to be an intense seminar in modern Chinese history—but it also trains the viewer at home to expect these issues to never get discussed AT ALL; to not even bother expecting, nor hoping, that Tracy & The Goober’s Morning Crotch Grab will be able to discuss what Morey said about Hong Kong even on a superficial level, as Morey himself did. It also trains the viewer to be actively HOSTILE to such an issue penetrating their morning sports arguments, to treat such asides as un-American.
   190. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 07, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5887423)
   191. The Good Face Posted: October 07, 2019 at 03:00 PM (#5887425)

This is not true. I have been getting notified by the Athletic, phone and web, regarding these tweets. So I don't know what Athletic you use, but the one I use is covering this story. No idea about the "front page", but it is clearly covering the story.


Looks like The Athletic finally put up a story about 20 minutes after I posted. Better late than never.

Edit.

Ooof, and a mealy mouthed piece of Chinese propaganda it is. But still better than pretending nothing happened.
   192. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5887430)
Based on Harden's response, I expect the silence will be overwhelming.
maybe. probably.

but it doesn't take a harden; if enes kanter speaks up, *poof* there goes BOS. elton brand? PHI gone. dwight howard? that's the lakers out. wendell carter? *boom* bulls.

as long as china reacts to random tweets by threatening global thermonuclear war, those random tweets have an astonishing amount of power.
It's easy to be "brave" and "outspoken" when you're saying things the media and wealthy elites agree with. Bravery is when you speak out knowing there's a real likelihood of serious repercussions.

and yet, every generation has a few remarkable athletes who stand up in the face of such overbearing hostility. jackie robinson; muhammad ali; curt flood; john carlos; tommy smith; jahlil okafor; michael sam; colin kaepernick; magic johnson.
   193. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 07, 2019 at 03:14 PM (#5887434)
If you are going to the Athletic for your international relations news you are doing it wrong.
   194. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5887439)
based on china's reaction to daryl morey, it's very likely that hundreds of NBA players have the power to derail the NBA's billion dollar chinese market, just by sending a tweet.

many of those players also believe the earth is flat.
   195. The Good Face Posted: October 07, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5887448)
but it doesn't take a harden; if enes kanter speaks up, *poof* there goes BOS. elton brand? PHI gone. dwight howard? that's the lakers out. wendell carter? *boom* bulls.


Well, it's interesting to think about. Harden is a huge star, which gives him considerable power, but also means he has a lot to potentially lose. Some marginal player might decide that the longer term benefit of speaking out could exceed whatever upside remains from staying in the NBA. Although I doubt it, for the simple reason that people in power don't want to hear that ####. Kaepernick sacrificed his NFL career, but was able to parlay that move into a lucrative position because the media and woke capital liked what he was saying; they thought there was money in it (and they were right).

But look at the media reactions so far. The reactions of NBA billionaires. They don't want people poking this bear.
   196. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: October 07, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5887454)
STEAGLES, I don't disagree with you.
I also don't have money on the line, it's easy for me to say that.
I'm just explaining their behavior, not excusing it.
   197. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5887486)
STEAGLES, I don't disagree with you.
I also don't have money on the line, it's easy for me to say that.
I'm just explaining their behavior, not excusing it.

the families of NBA stakeholders will not starve because china cuts them off. player contracts will still be worth millions; franchises will still be worth billions.

keep in mind: china can only dump the NBA once. after an initial contraction, the NBA will slide right back into business as usual. worldwide revenue will grow; worldwide popularity will grow; it just won't grow in that one particular market (temporarily).


also, keep in mind: there's a difference between "the NBA" and basketball in general. unless china destroys their entire basketball infrastructure as a response (which...uh, yeah, they might), the NBA will be able to break back into china in the future. it might take a decade or longer, but at some point, some future chinese politician is going to want an easy win, and bringing the NBA back to televisions is as clear and easy a win as there is.
   198. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 07, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5887489)
Looks like The Athletic finally put up a story about 20 minutes after I posted. Better late than never.

Edit.

Ooof, and a mealy mouthed piece of Chinese propaganda it is. But still better than pretending nothing happened.

I don't tend to read comment sections, but the comments on that article are pretty uniformly lighting the author up for how mealy-mouthed it is. I'm curious if that'll mean anything to The Athletic's coverage. On the one hand they're not beholden to advertisers, on the other who knows who their investors in fact are, and what pressure there might be from those quarters. (Honestly, this being sportswriting, the answer may well be that The Athletic will cowardly dodge anything political, but we'll see. I'm sure they noticed that many of the critical comments compared them to what Deadspin has been doing with its coverage here very unfavorably.)
   199. I don't want to talk about Rocco Posted: October 07, 2019 at 04:51 PM (#5887505)
198--Thanks for sharing, and I checked out the comments section and holy #### is that writer getting crushed.
   200. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: October 07, 2019 at 05:00 PM (#5887515)
pass
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