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Thursday, October 24, 2019

OT - NBA Thread, Start of the 2019-2020 Season

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and we’re the only people that matter.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 24, 2019 at 02:42 PM | 1619 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, china, nba, off-topic

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Page 17 of 17 pages ‹ First  < 15 16 17
   1601. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 22, 2019 at 06:16 PM (#5910499)
Flip
   1602. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: December 22, 2019 at 06:16 PM (#5910500)
Maybe it's my kelly-green-colored glasses (or earmuffs, or whatever) but I've never heard Giannis mentioned in the same breath as the Lakers.


It is. They hired Kidd, they gave Antetokoumnpo's brother a contract, and while James' deal has a 4th-year player option, it does technically expire in June of 2021. Plus of course the Lakers will be linked to any guy of that caliber who hits the market, especially in the wake of signing James and trading for Davis. I have seen some Miami and Toronto stuff--nothing about New York, though.
   1603. tshipman Posted: December 22, 2019 at 06:32 PM (#5910501)
Re: Giannis news:

It's all kinda shaky, because it's driven by the teams leaking to selective friendly outlets. Lowe has been writing/talking about Toronto a lot, for instance, and he's heavily sourced with the team there. Same thing for (I think) Windhorst and Miami. Howard Beck is talking about Giannis to LA.

So the perception is often driven by which national media guys you're reading and where they're sourced.
   1604. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: December 22, 2019 at 06:40 PM (#5910503)
1603--

Sure. I am not suggesting that any of it for any team has any legs--I doubt very seriously that Antetokounmpo himself has much of an idea about what he is going to do. Milwaukee is 26-4 and 2021 FA is 18 months off. But I have seen occasional stuff out there, and not just on Lakers sites.
   1605. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 22, 2019 at 07:37 PM (#5910510)
I think the ideal would be for Giannis to resign in Milwaukee.
   1606. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: December 22, 2019 at 08:35 PM (#5910512)
I think the ideal would be for Giannis to resign in Milwaukee.
i don't think anyone's ideal, ever, has been to spend more time in milwaukee.
   1607. PJ Martinez Posted: December 22, 2019 at 08:40 PM (#5910513)
That makes sense — Beck is the guy I read/hear least of those three, so I guess I haven't seen that speculation as much. Surely Giannis will ultimately be linked to all the usual suspects.

FWIW (not much, presumably, at this point), Lowe on a recent podcast said he thought the odds at this point were better than 50-50 that Giannis stays in Milwaukee. Obviously, there's a long ways to go and a lot could change.

Like, I suspect, most fans of teams that Giannis is not likely to play for, I hope he stays in Milwaukee.
   1608. tshipman Posted: December 22, 2019 at 09:47 PM (#5910519)
Like, I suspect, most fans of teams that Giannis is not likely to play for, I hope he stays in Milwaukee.

I think the ideal would be for Giannis to resign in Milwaukee.


I'm mildly surprised by this. I have loved the player empowerment era. LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, and even Melo and CP3's misadventures: the player empowerment era has led to better stories and a better NBA.

LeBron has taken ownership of his own destiny. First, by choosing to grow in Miami, then by choosing to win in Cleveland on his terms.

Durant's decision was also revealing. He's so much more compelling as a basketball savant and internet troll than as the "servant" persona he tried on in Oklahoma City.

I want to see Giannis's personality revealed in the same way. What does he value? What does he really care about? What will he be willing to sacrifice and what won't he?
   1609. Howie Menckel Posted: December 22, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5910522)
i don't think anyone's ideal, ever, has been to spend more time in milwaukee.

hey, I LIKE Milwaukee! I really do.

I mean, I wouldn't want to be there from November through May but..... ah, I see an issue here.
   1610. spivey Posted: December 22, 2019 at 11:23 PM (#5910524)
Went to the Bucks game tonight. Great game. Big game from Matthews, who has been pretty solid this year.

Milwaukee can be beaten. I think Golden State makes us forget what a normal contender looks like. None of those Heat/Spurs/OKC/Celtics/late-Lakers teams were unbeatable. As a Spurs fan, I always felt their dynasty was based off the idea that any given playoffs you can lose, so you just need to try to be contenders every year. Easier said than done, of course.

Teams that play tough, physical defense can beat Milwaukee. But 3pt variance is always going to be a factor in a playoff series in today’s NBA.
   1611. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: December 23, 2019 at 01:13 AM (#5910530)
I think Golden State makes us forget what a normal contender looks like.


No, I don't think so. Milwaukee has some of the metrics, at the moment, of an historically great team, and their second-best player is either Eric Bledsoe or Khris Middleton. That seems a little incongruous, but it may be that Antetokoumnpo is so good and the overall roster is tight enough that that is exactly what they are. But the Clippers, with an obvious Batman/Robin pairing of two guys on the same timeline, one of whom got the better of Antetokounmpo to some extent in last year's playoffs, some other useful guys, and a well-known coach with a ring, fit what a champion "looks like" more than Milwaukee does. But like I said in preseason, Antetokounmpo is ascending, is right at his physical peak and is healthy, all of which gives Milwaukee an edge.
   1612. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 23, 2019 at 07:24 AM (#5910535)
I want to see Giannis's personality revealed in the same way. What does he value? What does he really care about? What will he be willing to sacrifice and what won't he?

Sure! But I think it’d be cool if he liked Milwaukee and the situation there and desired to stay, maybe forcing a trade of some other guy to the Bucks.
   1613. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 23, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5910555)
Milwaukee can be beaten. I think Golden State makes us forget what a normal contender looks like. None of those Heat/Spurs/OKC/Celtics/late-Lakers teams were unbeatable.

Even Golden State with Durant was "beatable". The Rockets may have beaten them had Paul not gotten hurt. The 2016 sans Durant was beaten and the 2015 may have been as well with a healthy Irving/Love.
   1614. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: December 23, 2019 at 10:37 AM (#5910566)
1) Except for the last two minutes, to prevent gamesmanship in close games, fouls drawn on three-point attempts generate only two FT attempts instead of three

I like the thought here, but feel like there will be a lot of unintended consequences here.

FTR, I too, am not crazy about the idea of an in-season tournament, but do get the appeal.
   1615. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: December 23, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5910619)
Hard same. There are exactly three #hoopideas that I can get behind:
1) Except for the last two minutes, to prevent gamesmanship in close games, fouls drawn on three-point attempts generate only two FT attempts instead of three
2) All referee video reviews should be miked up, as in FIBA games (it's drastically less boring and frustrating)
3) Fewer games, more rest
1: i don't see the need for a carve out like that. even late in games, there's still a downside to fouling on legitimate 3PAs: a 4-point play. i'm happy to see this idea is gaining steam, though, because it will start to shift the balance of the game away from 3PAs. also: noone likes watching FTAs, so getting rid of a few per game is a good thing.

2: 100%. in addition to being less boring and less frustrating, it also gives fans a chance to observe the professionalism and competence of (most) NBA referees, rather than the biased speculation from (most) announcers.

3: yeah, sure, but i think the "DNP-rest" is here to stay, regardless of whether there's additional easing of the schedule.



related to point #A, i'll throw out my other free throw related #hoopidea:

4:
every free throw that isn't reboundable is just given. so, technical and flagrant FTs are just points. in combination with #A, every shooting foul would either result in an and-1, or 1 point + 1 FTA. the advantages for this combination of changes:

A: there's no more standing around for dead-ball FTs, which again, is something that noone enjoys watching.
b: it simplifies the rules.
-- instead of 3 different kinds of FTs (technical; dead-ball; live-ball), with 3 different enumerations (1, 2 or 3 shots), there's just one kind: 1-shot, live ball. everything else is just a given point.
iii: it takes away the incentive for the hack-attack without any special carve-outs.
-- fouling a 35% FT shooter goes from an expected ORTG of ~70 up to ~135, so the math doesn't work.
   1616. Booey Posted: December 23, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5910636)
#1615 - Disagree with the idea of just adding points for a foul. With the exception of goaltending, points should never be added unless the ball actually goes through the hoop.

I'm in favor of 3 free throws in the last 2 minutes so teams have a chance for a game tying 3. Otherwise, a team with a 3 pt lead in the final seconds will just foul on the last possession rather than allowing their opponent to attempt the game tying trey. That sounds worse, IMO. And the threat of 4 pt plays is minuscule. They're almost impossible with a REAL foul. They generally only happen on a high five during the follow through or for a defender running afoul of the "landing space rule". And in both cases, the ball is already out of the shooters hand and the foul doesn't affect the flight of the ball. When a defender is actually trying to foul, they could make sure the shot doesn't go in from that distance pretty effectively, IMO.

I personally think fouls on 3-pers are a blight on the game not because free throws are boring (I mean, they are, but they're not THAT big of a deal), but rather because A) it leads to WAY too much gamesmanship. From personal observation probably 75% of fouls on 3-pers are initiated by the shooter and shouldn't be called, and B) isn't it debatable that 3 free throws is a stricter penalty than 2 shots plus the ball, the penalty for a flagrant? Even the semi-legit fouls on 3-pers are usually touch fouls, so basically we're assessing the heaviest penalty in the game for one of the most minor offenses. The punishment far outweighs the "crime".

Lastly, as I've mentioned before, the landing space rule needs to be tweaked to only apply if the shooter goes straight up and down. I understand the point of the rule; to prevent the Kawhi/Zaza type injury that ruined the 2017 WCF. But in reality it's had the opposite effect; we're seeing MORE of these types of plays than ever before because shooters are TRYING to land on their defenders feet, cuz again, the penalty for fouling on a 3-per is just too severe.
   1617. . . . . . . Posted: December 23, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5910639)
What if you got three shots for being fouled during a 3PA, but you had to take those shots from the three point line behind the top of the key?
   1618. jmurph Posted: December 23, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5910646)
I don't have a problem with the current free throw rules and am not in a hurry to see them changed. They have a difficult job already but to me this is a refereeing discussion, they just need to do a better job. Most of the most egregious things that drive people crazy are just non-fouls being called incorrectly. Shooters initiating contact, drivers initiating contact with the off arm, etc. They've tightened up a lot of the "before the gather" stuff we used to see way more of a couple years ago from beyond the 3 pt line, but it's still an issue. If we could reduce the free throws that result from those situations I think we'd be in a better place.

It's funny because there's a notion on basketball twitter that the charge call should be eliminated, but I honestly think a significant increase in offensive foul calls would ultimately improve things aesthetically (after a flurry of technicals during the adjustment period, probably). We're mad about watching free throws but the real issue is those just aren't shooting fouls in the first place.

   1619. Rally Posted: December 23, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5910649)
What if you got three shots for being fouled during a 3PA, but you had to take those shots from the three point line behind the top of the key?


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