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Thursday, October 24, 2019

OT - NBA Thread, Start of the 2019-2020 Season

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and we’re the only people that matter.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 24, 2019 at 02:42 PM | 1484 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, china, nba, off-topic

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   701. JC in DC Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5900293)
So, it's imploding on the Knicks. For those who don't follow, Mills and Perry did a post-catastrophe press conference after a half-time meeting they had with Dolan. They spoke about their disappointment, about their patience, and mentioned a "we'll see how it goes in the next 10 games" quasi-time limit. It looks like predictions that Fizdale will be the first to go will prove sage. I don't see this getting turned around. The roster is a mess. Portis and Randle in particular are in bad ways; they clog the offense and are horrendous on defense. Marcus Morris, who I've never liked, is a pro player at least. The team has little game/situation/winning intelligence and demeanor. Nearly all this points most immediately to Fizdale, but when he's axed, that'll be at least 5 coaches during Mills' tenure. At some point, he has to go. I long for the Donnie Walsh salad days, but I really have no idea of the next move for this team. You've got some young talent, some bizarre roster redundancies, and very little professional, veteran leadership. I would love someone reaching out to Kobe Bryant to "run" the team. They need strength at the top, and they just don't have it. Total shitshow, 10 games in. Another lost season.
   702. jmurph Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:33 AM (#5900297)
Yeah Caruso is good, I'm just saying go down to stubble, man. The wispy thing he's going with on top of his head just seems less than ideal.
   703. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5900310)
I'll say this, as a dude who has considered going down to stubble (though I'm not yet at Caruso levels) - sometimes people in your life like the weird remaining pattern?
   704. billyshears Posted: November 11, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5900317)
The Knicks need to fire everybody. As much as Dolan is a problem, Mills is just as big a problem. At least it seems like he's finally in the firing line. Perry is just a guy. And Fizdale doesn't do anything. There's no discernible scheme. And if he's a player's coach, as we seem to keep hearing, why don't the players play for him? Rumour is that they'll go after Ujiri after the season. They'll give him $20 mil per, and then he will get consumed by this dumpster fire just like everyone else.
   705. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 11:14 AM (#5900319)
60:40 odds that the next knicks kgm is kbrian kolangelo.
   706. jmurph Posted: November 11, 2019 at 11:37 AM (#5900326)
Zach Kram@zachkram
Stat of the Day #21: Knicks management is disappointed edition!

The Knicks have been outscored by 101 points in 10 games. That’s the franchise’s worst start by point differential since the 1962-63 season.
   707. tshipman Posted: November 11, 2019 at 11:37 AM (#5900327)
I'll say this, as a dude who has considered going down to stubble (though I'm not yet at Caruso levels) - sometimes people in your life like the weird remaining pattern?


Go down to the stubble, my man. You're too good a dude to go through life with people making comments after you get off the elevator.
   708. jmurph Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5900334)
Celtics really gonna be tested with the latest injury news. I'm of course referring to the fact that Kanter was just cleared to play.

(In all seriousness, as long as they don't overuse him they could use the offensive help.)
   709. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5900336)
Lakers: Hombre nailed it re. Lebron. If James scores 13 and Green scores 0, the Lakers are going to lose. I did not see the game; I wonder if Toronto has some anti-Danny Green Secret Sauce, or if it was just one of those things.

Caruso: As you would expect, he is sort of a thing on Lakers boards. People get way too into him, overrate him severely, and use him as a pretext to trash Rondo. But yeah, sloppy, inept trolling by stiggles. Caruso is playing on a good Lakers team and has 2/5.5M guaranteed. Caruso is actually a great example of why if a guy has any shot AT ALL at playing in the NBA, or playing professionally overseas, he should stick with it as long as possible.

Baldness/head shaving: I have a shaved head. I would have preferred to have kept my hair, but this is a much better time to be bald than the bad-comb over bad-rug era. I am not much of a fan of either Bruce Willis or Vin Diesel, but I actually do think that having a couple of bald guys be big action movie stars has helped. I do look better this way than I would going the Caruso route. YMMV.
   710. jmurph Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5900339)
stiggles might just be mad that Caruso would be like the 2nd best guard on the Sixers.
   711. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:22 PM (#5900342)

Celtics really gonna be tested with the latest injury news. I'm of course referring to the fact that Kanter was just cleared to play.

(In all seriousness, as long as they don't overuse him they could use the offensive help.)


I hear the plan is for him to play all of the first game back, then the next game sit him out for the middle third, then next game sit him out for the middle third of those two thirds, and so on for the rest of the season.
   712. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5900343)
Caruso: As you would expect, he is sort of a thing on Lakers boards. People get way too into him, overrate him severely, and use him as a pretext to trash Rondo. But yeah, sloppy, inept trolling by stiggles. Caruso is playing on a good Lakers team and has 2/5.5M guaranteed. Caruso is actually a great example of why if a guy has any shot AT ALL at playing in the NBA, or playing professionally overseas, he should stick with it as long as possible.

i have to concede this because the point i was trying to make was completely misunderstood. that's on me. i've gotta do a better job.

it wasn't a comment on caruso's talent or ability; what i was getting at is that people who look like him tend to get tracked into accountanting and immigration czaring.
   713. nick swisher hygiene Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5900345)
More than a decade into this thread, I suddenly have a mental image of rr.........
   714. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5900346)
I hear the plan is for him to play all of the first game back, then the next game sit him out for the middle third, then next game sit him out for the middle third of those two thirds, and so on for the rest of the season.
#discretemath
   715. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5900348)
Go down to the stubble, my man. You're too good a dude to go through life with people making comments after you get off the elevator.

I'm okay with people laughing at my expense. If Der-GF likes my (slightly) weird hair (and she does), I can give her weird hair.
That said, I've kinda wanted to shave my head since I was a kid with overly thick hair that was a pain to deal with but was afraid to because I imagined to be a scar factory, given the number of head injuries I've had*. I no longer care about that either, so stubble will happen at some point.

* yeah, i know, that tracks

As for Caruso, I've talked about him at length (I think he's a lot like Delon Wright and a great deal for the Lakers). The idea of "stick with the NBA dream as long as possible" is an interesting one. I think it depends on your risk aversion, immediate monetary needs, and what archetype you fall into. Caruso is a style of player who had a few pathways to NBA circa 2019 relevancy imo (become a little better shooter or a bit better playmaker - both, I think, have happened), whereas a high volume, low efficiency undersized combo guard -- or an undersized rebounder without much of an outside shot -- maybe not. Easy for me to say, though. I say give it a year or two, then move on - as a rule - but every case is different.
   716. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 11, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5900349)
More than a decade into this thread, I suddenly have a mental image of rr.........


Haha. JC and Hombre have actually met me, although I have dropped some weight/worked out a lot and ofc aged since those meetings, one of which was about ten years ago.
   717. tshipman Posted: November 11, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5900354)
stiggles might just be mad that Caruso would be like the 2nd best guard on the Sixers.


Well the Sixers only have like one guard (Richardson). Everyone else plays like a big on offense.

Stiggles would like it if the Sixers signed Boban and Tacko Fall, so they could roll out a 7 big man rotation.
   718. Booey Posted: November 11, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5900355)
I'm pretty much a dead ringer for Chris Hemsworth, in case anyone ever wondered what I looked like, only slightly more muscular and better looking. And with a tramp stamp of Joe Ingles face, of course...
   719. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 01:14 PM (#5900356)
Stiggles would like it if the Sixers signed Boban and Tacko Fall, so they could roll out a 7 big man rotation.
come on guy...neither of those people are free agents.


but yes, i do have a fondness for one particular chip kelly aphorism: "bigger people beat up little people."
   720. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 11, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5900362)
I'm pretty much a dead ringer for Chris Hemsworth,


You misspelled "Farley." But then, I am posting from a van down by the river and living on a steady diet of government cheese, so I am not one to talk.
   721. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5900365)
You misspelled "Farley." But then, I am posting from a van down by the river and living on a steady diet of government cheese, so I am not one to talk.

#thatbitis25yearsold
   722. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 11, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5900367)
It is indeed, but it is aging as well as The Process.
   723. spivey Posted: November 11, 2019 at 02:41 PM (#5900371)
As for Caruso, I've talked about him at length (I think he's a lot like Delon Wright and a great deal for the Lakers). The idea of "stick with the NBA dream as long as possible" is an interesting one. I think it depends on your risk aversion, immediate monetary needs, and what archetype you fall into. Caruso is a style of player who had a few pathways to NBA circa 2019 relevancy imo (become a little better shooter or a bit better playmaker - both, I think, have happened), whereas a high volume, low efficiency undersized combo guard -- or an undersized rebounder without much of an outside shot -- maybe not. Easy for me to say, though. I say give it a year or two, then move on - as a rule - but every case is different.

One thing that's unclear to me and maybe you know is how many jobs there are playing professional basketball in Europe, Asia, etc. And how many of them are well paying (let's say 100k+?). Of course not every kid from college wants to live abroad, but for a good college basketball player I figured that would be a real path much of the time if they wanted to pursue it.

And for so many of these guys, so much of their time has been spent honing that craft that I'm not sure there is a great pivot for a lot of these guys unless they're doing it really young (maybe a couple of years before college?).
   724. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 11, 2019 at 03:29 PM (#5900377)
One thing that's unclear to me and maybe you know is how many jobs there are playing professional basketball in Europe, Asia, etc. And how many of them are well paying (let's say 100k+?). Of course not every kid from college wants to live abroad, but for a good college basketball player I figured that would be a real path much of the time if they wanted to pursue it.

And for so many of these guys, so much of their time has been spent honing that craft that I'm not sure there is a great pivot for a lot of these guys unless they're doing it really young (maybe a couple of years before college?).


There's also a ton of high school, community college, etc. coaching jobs right? You might be doing double duty (e.g. HS gym teacher / basketball coach), but you'd think at minimum it'd be a good thing on your resume to have played D-1 college ball and you could bail out into it at any time. So, chase your dream as long as you want, there are fallbacks (not to mention things for a CBB star like e.g. becoming a car salesman in your college town where people idolize you).
   725. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 11, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5900380)
If you've got a halfway decent shot at the NBA and no criminal record, you've got a very good shot at a high 5-figure / 6 figure non-NBA gig, I think. That said, job security isn't great.

How many decent gigs is a good question - there's seemingly a zillion leagues but some of 'em are weird - like the one in Luxembourg I read about before the G League draft (because I am bad at time management) - that one is functionally semipro.

I guess this wasn't an answer.
   726. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: November 11, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5900384)
A couple scheduling quirks that caught my eye:

Ten games into the season, the Pacers still have yet to play a decent team. Every opponent thus far has a losing record, negative point differential, and negative SRS.

On the flip side, Utah has played the toughest schedule in terms of opponent strength.* A majority of Utah's games have been against LAC, LAL, MIL, and PHI -- the top 4 title favorites according to the oddsmakers. However, tonight the Jazz begin a stretch of 7 consecutive games against bad teams.

*Milwaukee's schedule has been similarly difficult factoring in home/road.
   727. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 11, 2019 at 04:25 PM (#5900398)
The Bulls' terrible 3pt shooting continues to amaze me. They went 4 for 32 against Houston the other night; it's not a stretch to say that isn't really a credit to the Rockets's defense. Somehow the Bulls are still shooting over 30% as a team (31.4% to be exact) and also somehow aren't last in the league (25th, just ahead of LAL).
   728. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:21 PM (#5900411)
A few points about Robert Williams:

a) I think Nerlens Noel is a good comp for him; he's a bit undersized and not brawny, but has ludicrous fast-twitch athleticism. He'll smother a ballhandler then rotate to an eye-popping block in one possession, and then look completely lost or try to block something he shouldn't and thereby take himself way out of position on the next. If he can harness his skills he'll be a real impact defender, but that is of course a huge if.

b) He is a surprising passer for a defense-and-dunks big man. Not in a Draymond-good sort of way, but those inclined to wishcast him forward developmentally (*cough*) can use it as evidence of a good brain for the game.

c) Most importantly, he's a dryly hilarious quote. He got asked what he said to the stanchion after this dunk:
“Like, ‘ahh,’” Williams said, imitating a scream (without the volume), then he repeated it a little longer. “'Ahhhhhhhh.'”

And when asked about his takeaway from their successful 3-0 road trip:
“We’ve got hella games left," he said. "Hella games left. It’s a great road-trip win, all three of them, but we’ve got hella games left.”
   729. PJ Martinez Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5900416)
Also worth noting with Williams is the 7-6 wingspan.
   730. PJ Martinez Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5900417)
Bucks All-Star forward Khris Middleton is expected to miss several weeks with a left leg injury, but no serious damage in the leg, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
   731. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:42 PM (#5900420)
I logged on with the intent to swoop in and defend Robert Williams' honor just like no one was asking for, but while I was busy with an infant, the conversation moved on like Caruso's hairline. Then I remembered that I'm sleep deprived and lack perspective, so I'm charging ahead anyway.

While "6-8 guy who's never made a three" is a perfectly accurate description, so is "guy with a 7-6 wingspan and a vertical closer to 40 inches than 30", which seems a touch more relevant to his primary roles as a rim protector and lob threat. And while the sample size is still far, far too small to firmly conclude he'll become a slick-passing version of peak Clint Capela, it's an excellent sign that in the early going, his gaudy rate stats have held up under higher usage. That said, he's shown no ability whatsoever to create his own shot, and despite flashes of great passing, he can't dribble like Draymond, both of which limit how much usage he can actually take on before everything goes to ####; on some teams, that could potentially become an issue.

EDIT: cokes to FTO and PJ
   732. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:47 PM (#5900421)
Bucks All-Star forward Khris Middleton is expected to miss several weeks with a left leg injury, but no serious damage in the leg, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA

I'm pretty surprised by this, it didn't look like much at all live. The Journal-Sentinel guy is further reporting that it's 3-4 weeks with a thigh contusion. That seems like a really long time. I wonder what's going on there.
   733. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:47 PM (#5900422)
I'm pretty much a dead ringer for Chris Hemsworth
Since you're all pretty much white dudes, just think of some random Chinese guy, and that's what I'll look like to you.

Ah, it feels good to laugh.
   734. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 11, 2019 at 05:53 PM (#5900423)
Since you're all pretty much white dudes, just think of some random Chinese guy, and that's what I'll look like to you.


I knew Jeremy Lin posted on this thread!
   735. Manny Coon Posted: November 11, 2019 at 06:21 PM (#5900428)
Zubac has a 30.2 PER, but like most old-school bigs, he is a PT player in today's game


The rest of the Clippers center minutes are going to Harrell who is also a pretty old school non-shooting big, but short. Harrell is scoring 20 points per game and looking at his shot chart he's only made one shot out of the paint this year (and only barely). They are getting a combined 45 minutes from Harrell/Zubac and they have both been really efficient.
   736. aberg Posted: November 11, 2019 at 06:50 PM (#5900429)
Baldness/head shaving: I have a shaved head. I would have preferred to have kept my hair, but this is a much better time to be bald than the bad-comb over bad-rug era. I am not much of a fan of either Bruce Willis or Vin Diesel, but I actually do think that having a couple of bald guys be big action movie stars has helped. I do look better this way than I would going the Caruso route. YMMV.


The mount rushmore of people who have done the most for baldness in the mainsteram has got to be Yul Brenner, Telly Savalas, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Michael Jordan. I'll give Sinead O'Connor honorable mention for inclusion purposes. I'm not actually bald, but all the men on the maternal side of my family went bald early, so I have been expecting it for awhile. Still just hanging in there, looking exactly like Jeff Whithey.

Bucks All-Star forward Khris Middleton is expected to miss several weeks with a left leg injury, but no serious damage in the leg, league sources tell


If you're saying "leg injury" just go full hockey and say "lower body injury."

I'm on paternity leave and not on a computer much, but a couple quick Wolves notes, as you have all been waiting with baited breath. They have played the last few games without Teague or Napier, who are the only PGs on the roster. Wiggins and Culver have been the default PGs and it has been super ugly, but the beat GS and then took DEN to OT, only losing on a crazy Jokic jumper in the closing seconds. There are a few things about the team that are definitely better than I expcted: the increased usage for Towns and better spacing has made the offense more fluid, even though the shots aren't falling (and might not); at least so far, they have got Wiggins more plugged in, trying harder and taking better shots, basically getting him all the way up to "meh;" Napier, Vonleh, and Graham have all been interesting scrap-heap finds; the cobminatino of Covington, Okogie, and Graham is really frustrating for opposing offenses. If they could find someone who could slow down a primary ball-handler (look at the numbers scoring PGs have put up on them- Kyrie and DLo 50+, weirdly great games for Kendrick Nunn and Devonte Graham), they might actually have a good defense. All that said, it's not enough to make the team meaningfully better than I expected. It's probably more like 38-40 wins if they stay healthy rather than 34-36. It could go lower, too, because I doubt Rosas will hesitate if he gets a chance to go after a trade with longer term value. I don't think there's any way into a Simmons conversation, but I'm sure they've tried to work out ideas for him.
   737. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: November 11, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5900438)
Everything about the Knicks power struggle is hilarious. I don’t really care because Fiz has sucked and so have the guys who are trying to turn on him.
   738. PJ Martinez Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:02 PM (#5900442)
Hayward had surgery and is reportedly expected to return in six weeks.
   739. aberg Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:05 PM (#5900443)
Hayward had surgery and is reportedly expected to return in six weeks.


Who?
   740. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:13 PM (#5900445)
I knew Jeremy Lin posted on this thread!
Pretty sure that would make him Los Angeles El Hombre of Palo Alto, which doesn't have quite the same ring.
Who?
I know, it's a silly error, but easy to understand: Geriatric Heckler was playing uncannily like that old Jazz star Gordon Hayward.

Whatever happened to him, anyway?
   741. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:15 PM (#5900446)
Also, I don't know if it ever got discussed already, since I'm on paternity leave too and my brain only partly works at the moment, but: congrats aberg!
   742. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:17 PM (#5900447)
Harrell/Zubac: They have some statistical markers that override McGee and Howard, but the Lakers are 2nd in DRTG, whereas the Clippers are 14th, and Howard and McGee, sort of the slightly cheaper, miscreant old-guy answer to the Clippers' guys, have also been very efficient. One key there is of course Davis, and another is Leonard sitting two games. But even with that, my hit is that Harrell and Zubac are pretty good, but I think that high-efficiency bigs with no range are more fungible in today's game than their some of their stats might suggest.

Robert Williams: This may stir up a little dust, but I will say it anyway. During the mildly fractious conversations about the Boston FO when we were talking about Jimmy Butler as a trade target for Ainge, my basic argument was, "Ainge and Stevens are smart guys and can find other efficient role players, so they shouldn't let guys like Jae Crowder hold that up." Robert Williams may indeed be special in some way, but I have spent the last six years listening to/reading Lakers fans telling me that Ivica Zubac, Larry Nance Jr. and Julius Randle were/are really special, too. It is not that any of these guys suck or anything, but all fanbases tend to get overly involved with organizational draftees.

Baldness Mt. Rushmore: Yes, as I have found out the hard way, baldness often does come from the maternal side. My dad is 73 and has the same hairline he had at 33. In terms of TV/movie guys, Brynner and Savalas were a little before my time (not much--I am older than most guys on the thread) but IMO they were more "Look at the bald guy!" whereas I think Willis and Diesel are more just action movie guys who are bald. But yeah, Brynner and Savalas were the trail blazers so to speak. I don't know much about Austin, since I am not a wrestling fan and not usually an action movie guy (except for The Equalizer and John Wick) but I will take your word for it. Jordan for sure. The late, great comedian George Carlin, who was bald but went old-school 70s with the long hair on the side and in the back until he died, had a funny bit late in his career about how bad white guys look with shaved heads, whereas black guys look cool.
   743. JJ1986 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5900449)
Rob Williams doesn't really have to be anything special to be extremely useful to the Celtics. He has to be capable on both ends of the floor and better than guys like Kanter and Theis.
   744. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:39 PM (#5900452)
I was expecting something a lot more controversial from the middle paragraph of [742] than "the promising young guy on your team is not a guarantee to be a difference maker". Almost disappointingly measured and reasonable, given the disclaimer up front.
   745. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:42 PM (#5900453)
Must be something in the water. Posting from the post partum room staring at my son. My wife signed off on his first and middle names being the last names of the ‘94 Knicks’ starting backcourt.
   746. GregD Posted: November 11, 2019 at 08:51 PM (#5900455)
Must be something in the water. Posting from the post partum room staring at my son. My wife signed off on his first and middle names being the last names of the ‘94 Knicks’ starting backcourt.
Congrats everybody!

And welcome to the world....Anthony Harper?
   747. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:01 PM (#5900456)
Starks Harper..

John Anthony...

   748. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:01 PM (#5900457)
Must be something in the water. Posting from the post partum room staring at my son. My wife signed off on his first and middle names being the last names of the ‘94 Knicks’ starting backcourt.
houston starks?
   749. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:04 PM (#5900458)
dudley ewing?
   750. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:16 PM (#5900461)
I know we all know, but that Doncic kid is a blast to watch play. His hands and his court sense are off the charts, and he's sporting a pair of absolute onions.
   751. SteveF Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:21 PM (#5900463)
Since you're all pretty much white dudes, just think of some random Chinese guy, and that's what I'll look like to you.

I'd like to thank you on behalf of white people everywhere for charitably assuming we can distinguish between Chinese people and other east asians ;)
   752. Booey Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:39 PM (#5900468)
Congrats NJ, berg, and winter's night on your new screaming poop factory!*

Sleep is overrated anyway.

* I think 'bundle of joy' is the more common expression, but let's be honest here...
   753. tshipman Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:40 PM (#5900469)
Congrats to all the recent dads. My little guy is almost two and it still feels like we brought him home yesterday. I wonder when that goes away.

***

Robert Williams: This may stir up a little dust, but I will say it anyway. During the mildly fractious conversations about the Boston FO when we were talking about Jimmy Butler as a trade target for Ainge, my basic argument was, "Ainge and Stevens are smart guys and can find other efficient role players, so they shouldn't let guys like Jae Crowder hold that up." Robert Williams may indeed be special in some way, but I have spent the last six years listening to/reading Lakers fans telling me that Ivica Zubac, Larry Nance Jr. and Julius Randle were/are really special, too. It is not that any of these guys suck or anything, but all fanbases tend to get overly involved with organizational draftees.


There are just so many vaguely decent bigs right now. It's bizarre. It feels like every team has one or two guys who can do big-man things at a high level. None of them seem to have the whole package, but they all can do one or two things very well, and that's all you need from that spot.
   754. Booey Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:48 PM (#5900476)
#753 - When mine hit age 4, it felt like they'd been toddlers their whole lives and I could barely even remember their baby stage. I have twins though, so maybe my subconscious mind repressed those memories for sanity purposes.
   755. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:49 PM (#5900477)
Congrats to all the recent dads. My little guy is almost two and it still feels like we brought him home yesterday. I wonder when that goes away.

Our oldest is 4 ½, and, ... not yet?
   756. aberg Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5900480)
Come on guys, keep it in OT Parenting.

It seems like only yesterday we were having the first Wilt-Russell debate and arguing about whether Kobe had a good 6/24 game.
   757. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 11, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5900481)
I went to her school (here in Canuckistan four year olds go to "junior kindergarten") for a Remembrance Day program, and I burst into tears during her rendition of "O, Canada". Being a dad is the best thing that's ever happened to me, at worst second to the Wolves drafting KG.
   758. PJ Martinez Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:00 PM (#5900483)
Congrats to all the new dads.

Including recent-ish dad Jayson Tatum, who just had one of the ten or eleven worst shooting performances in NBA history, going 1-18 from the field. (Celtics won anyway, thanks to Walker and Brown.)
   759. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:01 PM (#5900484)
Posting from the post partum room staring at my son.
Congrats on... John Derek?

Poor baby, doomed to be a Knick fan.
   760. SteveF Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:02 PM (#5900485)
1-18. 12.7% true shooting. Woof.

Also Dwight Powell might soon be taking all of Porzingis's minutes.

I guess you can take the Porzingis out of the Knicks, but you can't take the Knicks out of the Porzingis.
   761. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:09 PM (#5900487)
I see the Wolves beat the Pistons.

... and so it goes.
   762. jmurph Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5900489)
Let me add to the congrats for the new and repeat dads. And allow me to recommend the condensed games feature in league pass when you’re up holding an infant in the middle of the night, very useful.
   763. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5900495)
Wiggins officially has my attention.

EDIT: thanks for the well wishes. Went with Harper for the first name. My daughter is 3.5 and the wife and I have completely forgotten all the “baby” things we used to have to do so the first couple days have been clunky. Hopefully the muscle memory comes back.
   764. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 11, 2019 at 10:46 PM (#5900499)
Mason Oakley is still available, then.
   765. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 12, 2019 at 12:24 AM (#5900510)
Hey, good for Wiggins tonight, but he is still shooting 32 percent from three, doesn't rebound, has the lowest free throw rate of his career, and his defensive on/off is -16. Those are cherry picked numbers but ... if there's an upgrade, as someone said upthread, it's just gotten him to "meh".

Expecting our second in May. Why do people do this to themselves? I can't wait for all our kids to discuss Blernsball on a Calvinball message board in 2040.
   766. tshipman Posted: November 12, 2019 at 01:02 AM (#5900518)
Expecting our second in May. Why do people do this to themselves?


My wife has started agitating for this. I feel old as ####. I cannot imagine going through those first six months again.

***

Basketball content goes here.
   767. spivey Posted: November 12, 2019 at 08:44 AM (#5900533)
Has Porzingis ever had a good basketball year?

--

I remember there was some debate here (and in my mind) on AD on why New Orleans sucked so bad at defense if they had him and Jrue. Happy to see with better wing defenders and a more defensive minded coach he looks like he can be the defensive anchor we all expect.
   768. jmurph Posted: November 12, 2019 at 09:18 AM (#5900538)
Has Porzingis ever had a good basketball year?

Yeeesssssss, I've been on this bandwagon for years. He's got a lot of problems! I get why people expect him to be very good and maybe (even probably) he will be soon, but there's not a lot there so far. He's a great shotblocker, he had a really impressive rookie year, but where has he improved?

And speaking of former Soviet Republics, I highly recommend the latest 30 for 30 podcast about Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi's experience playing in Russia, it's wild.
   769. jmurph Posted: November 12, 2019 at 10:18 AM (#5900552)
The Tatum numbers last night are hilarious:

Tatum: 1-18 from the field
All other Celtics: 40-68

He was also somehow +16 (I actually thought he played well, it was just crazy some of the shots that were rimming out or going halfway down and bouncing out).
   770. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 12, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5900558)
congrats to new parents and existing parents who are happy about it! also, second the rec for league pass in the middle of the night w/ an infant.

   771. PJ Martinez Posted: November 12, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5900566)
Re: Tatum being +16, Ryan Bernardoni had a good quip after the game: "Just like everyone said before the draft, Jayson Tatum is an elite defender who struggles to finish and Jaylen Brown is a polished three-level scorer."

Quippy hyperbole aside, Brown, unlike Tatum, really has been significantly better across the board in these first nine games; very curious to see whether he can keep that up.
   772. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 12, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5900569)
I went to her school (here in Canuckistan four year olds go to "junior kindergarten") for a Remembrance Day program, and I burst into tears during her rendition of "O, Canada". Being a dad is the best thing that's ever happened to me, at worst second to the Wolves drafting KG.

My story like that is that I teared up on a plane while watching "Real Steel" once; for those who don't know if off the top of their head it's the Hugh Jackman movie with boxing robots. When the kid calls him "dad" the first time...

----

Basketball content goes here.

Like I've been saying about the Bulls shooting:
There are many close observers of the Bulls (including our own analysts Kendall Gill and Will Perdue) who believe that the team needs to go back to a traditional play style that includes more mid-range shots and post play.

However, the analytics suggest that the Bulls’ offensive system is working because it’s resulting in open and wide-open shots. It’s overly simplistic to say an open shot is good, a contested shot is bad but the goal of any offensive system is to create good looks for its scorers. Through 10 games, the Bulls have attempted 347 3-point shots. Of those attempts, a whopping 89.6% of them are considered open or wide-open by the league’s closest defender metrics. The Bulls are hitting just 31.1% of those open or wide-open shots. That is far below the league average. They rank 27th in the NBA on ‘wide open’ threes made, and 24th in the NBA on ‘open’ threes made.

They are also taking an above-average number of 3-point attempts (26.0 per game) without a dribble. That’s the 8th highest total in the league and suggests that most of their attempts are coming within an offensive set and not in isolation. They are converting just 31.9% of their threes without a dribble, which is near the bottom of the league at 26th.

The most common 3-point shot taken by the Bulls is a catch-and-shoot jumper, 79.3% of their attempts a game are shots with the touch-time less than 2 seconds. As you’d imagine, the numbers line up with their no-dribble threes, their 31.6% conversion rate on catch-and-shoot threes is fourth-worst in the NBA.

Using Markkanen as an example, he is hitting just 25.0% of his ‘wide open’ threes. He’s 16th in the league in ‘wide open’ 3-point attempts per game, but 244th in converting ‘wide open’ threes. That is a massive difference. Last year Markkanen shot 43.2% on ‘wide open’ 3-point attempts. He clearly has the ability to hit that shot.
   773. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 12, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5900580)
So on Dunc’d On there was mention of who the Knicks are lining up to replace Fizdale, and of course OF COURSE the name “Mark Jackson” came up. As a fan of one of the worst run organizations in sports, I am feeling an unaccustomed emotion ... is this? ... could it be? ... pity?
   774. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 12, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5900582)
did anyone here take aron baynes as a first time all-star?

because, jesus ####, that guy. 25 PER; 71% TS%; 9.5 BPM; +13 net on-off rating.
   775. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 12, 2019 at 12:41 PM (#5900588)
Given the existence of Deandre Ayton, I don't think even the Suns or Baynes expected it. Holy smokes it's been fun, though.
   776. jmurph Posted: November 12, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5900602)
Tommy Beer @TommyBeer
Kristaps Porzingis is the only player in the NBA this season attempting more than 15 FG's per game, yet shooting 40% or worse from the floor and below 70% from the FT stripe.

Tommy Beer @TommyBeer
The Mavs are scoring 101.2 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis ON the floor this season.

The Mavs are scoring 125.7 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis OFF the court this season.

KP'S Net Rating (minus-8.3) is the worst on the team.

(Worth noting of course that he's just returning from the injury layoff.)
   777. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 12, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5900645)
Re: Porzingis and injury, keep in mind he's had 20 months to rehab -- instead of the "usual" 12 or so. While the Mavs announced pretty early that he was shut down for the season last year, a few thoughts:

1) Maybe he half-assed his rehab?
2) Maybe coming back sooner would have helped him rehab faster?

Regardless, my default on these major injuries is to assume that the player is a shadow of their former self until proven otherwise. That kind of a life event can have major impact mentally and physically and you just never know if the person will make it all the way back. Sometimes this is wrong (Kawhi, George, Embiid, maybe Gulliver Halfling) but a LOT of these guys never make it back to their previous level and for those who do usually they end up as a less athletic version anyway with other skills to compensate.
   778. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 12, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5900648)
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania

Houston fears guard Eric Gordon needs surgery on his knee that would sideline him at least one month, league sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Gordon gathering more information today for final decision, but leaning toward clean-up procedure, per sources.
   779. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 12, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5900661)
Re: Gordon
John Hollinger @johnhollinger

This helps makes sense of Gordon's impossibly bad start. 3.4 PER in 265 minutes, -9.0 BPM (!) ... just replacing that with run-of-the-mill badness (and oh does Houston have it) will help. And obviously, replacing that with the real Eric Gordon in six weeks will help even more.

Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42

Eric Gordon must appear in 500 reg. season minutes (he is at 265) or 750 (reg./playoffs) and the Rockets win the NBA Championship for his salary in 2023-24 of $20.9M to become fully guaranteed. Despite the recent knee injury, Gordon will still likely meet the minutes criteria.
   780. Manny Coon Posted: November 12, 2019 at 05:00 PM (#5900662)
Kristaps Porzingis is the only player in the NBA this season attempting more than 15 FG's per game, yet shooting 40% or worse from the floor and below 70% from the FT stripe.


Looking his shot chart he is taking a lot of shots between 3 and 10 feet and completely terrible at them (27%). I haven't watched him much, is he taking a lot of weird difficult floaters or something?
   781. aberg Posted: November 12, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5900677)
Sixers would have to include other salary to make this work, but is this idea at all interesting? Simmons for Covington, Teague, Culver, Okogie, unprotected 1sts in 20, 22, 24.
   782. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 12, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5900678)
Porzingis: I have always been a supporter, but the evidence is not looking good.
Wiggins: He is taking more shots from 3-10 and fewer from 10-16, and hitting more of the 3-10 than usual (.467). He is also taking fewer long 2s and is making more of the ones he is taking (.400 vs. 343 career). He has a 21.1 PER; he has never approached that over a full season.

   783. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 12, 2019 at 06:52 PM (#5900679)
Sixers would have to include other salary to make this work, but is this idea at all interesting? Simmons for Covington, Teague, Culver, Okogie, unprotected 1sts in 20, 22, 24.


The Process: Age of Rosas
   784. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 12, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5900688)
Sixers would have to include other salary to make this work, but is this idea at all interesting? Simmons for Covington, Teague, Culver, Okogie, unprotected 1sts in 20, 22, 24.
yes...but no.

if the sixers were going to shop simmons, it would have happened this past summer, before they signed him to a huge extension, and while they still had the opportunity to retain jimmy butler. so it's just not going to happen in the near future, imo.

otoh, i'd personally be pretty open to making that deal, assuming a third team would take a lot of those assets while sending the sixers a beal/butler/george/okafor/booker/mccollum caliber wing scorer.
   785. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 12, 2019 at 08:06 PM (#5900693)
Before the injury if a big guy got up in Porzingis' business, Porzingis would bully the hell out of him. He'd get mean.

There's none of that now. He seems to be going out of his way to avoid physicality on both ends of the floor. To call his effort at setting screens "halfhearted" would be generous; if you get in his jersey now, he passes out; he takes jumpers at every opportunity. The other night there was a missed three that bounced straight up off the rim about ten feet; Porzingis was under the basket, in perfect position (and, y'know, he's 7'3") and kind of crab-walked away as three other guys jumped in to fight for the ball.

Maybe he got paid and quit giving a ####. But it looks more to me like he doesn't trust his knee AT ALL.

I don't know what the off/on numbers are, but the Mavs sure LOOK like a better team with Powell at the 5 and Porzingis on the bench.
   786. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 12, 2019 at 08:29 PM (#5900705)
With four minutes left in the first half, the Heat are beating the Pistons by 29 points. How do you fall behind by 29 points in just 20 minutes of basketball?!
   787. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 12, 2019 at 08:32 PM (#5900706)
With four minutes left in the first half, the Heat are beating the Pistons by 29 points. How do you fall behind by 29 points in just 20 minutes of basketball?!


Was atrocious. Approaching rooting for losses pretty early in the season. I mean that may be better than another Fight for the Eight Seed, but I've never been able to enjoy watching it as a fan. Like, do I want the young players on the roster to look good all game long and then lose by 1 at the end?
   788. PJ Martinez Posted: November 12, 2019 at 08:47 PM (#5900709)
   789. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 12, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5900711)
This is a fairly egregious carry, yes?
narc.
   790. smileyy Posted: November 12, 2019 at 09:29 PM (#5900716)
Tobias Harris made about $34k for each three pointer he took. That "divide by zero error" tho
   791. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: November 12, 2019 at 10:58 PM (#5900721)
NBA is ridiculous giving flagrants on closeouts now. They just gave one to Tony Bradley for being under Dinwiddie, despite the fact that Dinwiddie jumped forward a few feet on his shot attempt. By all means give it to dirty plays like Zaza shuffling to intentionally get under Kawhi's feet, but this is just stupid.
   792. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 12, 2019 at 10:58 PM (#5900723)
Tobias Harris made about $34k for each three pointer he took. That "divide by zero error" tho
yancy gates isn't walking through that door.
   793. jmurph Posted: November 13, 2019 at 09:29 AM (#5900774)
stiggles: Tobias Harris straight up for Landry Shamet, who says no?
   794. jmurph Posted: November 13, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5900812)
Like I've been saying about the Bulls shooting:

Well there you go Moses, problem solved:
RealGM @RealGM
Coby White Sets Bulls Record With 7 3-Pointers In Quarter
   795. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 13, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5900823)
It was against the Knicks, so...

Coby is fun though.
   796. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 13, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5900838)
stiggles: Tobias Harris straight up for Landry Shamet, who says no?
you know, i'm not gonna get into hypotheticals. let's just try to keep this thread focused on actual, relevant, factual information.
   797. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 13, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5900875)
796 is pretty good.

Reminded me of the joke about BBTF NBA Podcast Segments based on poster idiosyncrasies: "Who Says No?" with stiggles.
   798. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 13, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5900881)
10 games into the season is usually when I start to take a survey of the league. The funny thing is, I don't think we've really learned a whole lot. No team is blowing everyone away. I'd say there are only really a couple surprises in each direction -- positive, you have the Celtics (although now with the Honkbal injury) and the Suns, while negative you have the Blazers and maybe the Nets (and the Pelicans and Warriors, but those are obviously injury related). But mostly it still looks like there is the same clump of potential contenders with no clear favorite.

Really excited to see how all this plays out. The Clippers, of course, still have one ace up their sleeve in Paul George.
   799. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 13, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5900908)
The Magic have been about as expected, but with disappointing results. They were talked about as a .500, middle of the pack playoff team, but are currently 3-7 with the #1 defense and #30 offense.
   800. jmurph Posted: November 13, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5900918)
The Magic have been about as expected, but with disappointing results.

In some ways the Nuggets are the inverse of this: good record at 7-3, but have not looked as good as many expected. That team should not be 22nd in offense, 27th in points per game.
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