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Thursday, October 24, 2019

OT - NBA Thread, Start of the 2019-2020 Season

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and we’re the only people that matter.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 24, 2019 at 02:42 PM | 1398 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, china, nba, off-topic

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   901. Booey Posted: November 17, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5901866)
Flip
   902. PJ Martinez Posted: November 17, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5901867)
It makes me happy that Markelle Fultz is starting to look like someone who might make it. I really hope he is able to stick around.

Edit: 22 for 27 from the free throw line so far this season!
   903. Howie Menckel Posted: November 17, 2019 at 08:40 PM (#5901869)
the Knicks made it to the playoffs every year from 1988-2001, and reached the Eastern semifinals 9 years in a row in that span (and 11 out of 12) - including two trips to the NBA Finals and two more to the Eastern Finals.

Knicks vs Jordan
Knicks vs Reggie
Knicks vs Pat Riley

I don't know to compare that to winning a championship, but annual trips to the playoffs and postseason battles - many of them seven games - against three epic "villains" is kind of satisfying, too. Knicks fans had reason to believe they could win a title, too - it's not like they were some "lucky to be there" squad.

of course, they have only won one playoff series since 2000 so there's that.
   904. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 17, 2019 at 09:44 PM (#5901878)
I'm starting to think that LeBron James might just still be pretty good.
   905. Mike A Posted: November 17, 2019 at 10:00 PM (#5901879)
Pretty cruel of the schedule makers to have the Hawks play the Clippers/Lakers back-to-back at the end of a long road trip.

But man, the Hawks look awful. Cam Reddish isn't ready at all. Hunter shows flashes, but he's not as good as expected either. Huerter is, uh, hurt.

Without Collins, it's almost all on Trae, and to ask a PG to continually put the team on his back is a bit much. All the optimism at the start of the season went out the window as the Hawks instead attempt to move up the misery index.
   906. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 17, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5901881)
Man, Rondo is terrible. He just gave up an easy lay-up to try to get an assist and got a turnover instead. He selfishly goes after assists to the detriment to his team. He also can't guard anyone anymore.
   907. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: November 17, 2019 at 10:27 PM (#5901882)
Rondo gets a 3/4 pass from LBJ with a layup right there and...he kicks out to someone cutting for a more difficult 2. He is the worst.
   908. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 17, 2019 at 10:31 PM (#5901883)
LBJ is +38 points in 13 minutes tonight so far.

   909. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 18, 2019 at 12:11 AM (#5901888)
We've seen this script so many times now: Rondo is going to be selfish and terrible all year and then, if he's healthy when the playoffs roll around, he will abruptly cut all the bullshit out of his game and make a bunch of hustle plays, suddenly becoming a drastically more effective team player.
   910. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 18, 2019 at 01:55 AM (#5901894)
Pretty cruel of the schedule makers to have the Hawks play the Clippers/Lakers back-to-back at the end of a long road trip.
It's not just the Hawks. Oklahoma City's coming to town, and they're getting Clippers and Lakers on consecutive nights as well. That's kinda messed up for road teams, even if both L.A. teams weren't contender-quality teams. That they both are makes it really tough.
   911. jmurph Posted: November 18, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5901967)
Zach Kram @zachkram
Stat of the Day #28: historical version!

Wilt Chamberlain holds the record for career 50-point games (118)—with as many as #2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 have combined.
   912. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 18, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5902022)
Lotta NBA TV ratings talk on the Twitter today! Guess the ratings are bad! Seems like an unfixable problem, but maybe does mean some sort of BOLD move by the NBA head office (shorter regular season, some screwy mid-season tournanment) will happen one day.
   913. jmurph Posted: November 18, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5902029)
Hmm I'll be interested to see those as the season progresses. They've had a lot of bad injury luck with some of the early national broadcast schedule- loooooot of Pelicans and Warriors games so far.
   914. Booey Posted: November 18, 2019 at 05:08 PM (#5902135)
#913 - Plus George being hurt and Kawhi resting for national games when they're on either side of a B2B.

You'd think the NBA would know better than to schedule national games when either team is on a B2B. Especially when Kawhi is on one of those teams...
   915. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 18, 2019 at 08:46 PM (#5902186)
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
I spent the first 3 years of my career covering the NBA debating the merits of tanking, and the last 3 years talking about why various point guards refuse to shoot outside of 5 feet away. I wouldn't even know what a normal basketball team looks like.
   916. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 18, 2019 at 09:28 PM (#5902194)
This is more the Timberwolves I was expecting to see.
   917. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:42 AM (#5902219)
Knicks history/"misery": With the obvious caveat that this is all subjective, I think that there is a "Dolan Factor" in play, at least based on what I read from the Knicks' guys here and what I see when I lurk at Knickerblogger. There seems to be a perception that the Knicks will never get anywhere until Dolan sells, that Dolan has no plans to sell, and that his presence makes rooting for the team a worse and more hopeless experience than rooting for another bad team would be.
Clippers: They are now 9-5 even though George and Leonard have not played a minute together yet.
Houston: Nine in a row after crushing Portland.
Doncic: 42/11/12. Maybe he really is the next Magic Johnson.
Lakers: Taking advantage of an easy schedule. Road trip coming after OKC @ home tomorrow is

OKC
MEM
SA
NO

   918. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5902247)
Very impressive win from the Wolves last night in Utah. Someone named Kelan Martin torched the Jazz in the 4th.
   919. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2019 at 09:58 AM (#5902254)
These have been fun:
Zach Kram @zachkram
Stat of the Day #29!

Forget 3-pointers, which are a predictable zero. Ben Simmons has taken one single shot *outside the paint* all season, per http://NBA.com.
   920. spivey Posted: November 19, 2019 at 10:01 AM (#5902259)
Really pleased with Milwaukee having a 10-3 record despite having such a tough schedule. bkref has them at the toughest SOS in the league, and that makes sense. 9 of their 13 games have been on the road, including road tilts against Houston, Clippers, Boston, and Utah. Top 5 in offense and defense again, showing pretty much all of the same strengths and weaknesses from last year. Giannis looks even better (though we're talking small margins). Still give up too many 3s.

Losing Brogdon could be big in the playoffs, still. He had some length to play wings and the ability to be a secondary or tertiary creator. Milwaukee feels one wing short to me, especially if they end up matched up against the Clippers, who are just a tough matchup all around for Milwaukee. Unfortunately, solid wings are rarely available in the buyout market.
   921. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 19, 2019 at 10:42 AM (#5902275)
Doncic: 42/11/12. Maybe he really is the next Magic Johnson.


Did you ever notice he dribbles a little bit like Magic? Luka likes a really high dribble.

It's gotten to the point where, the Spurs had closed to within 3 near the end (on a clutch Rudy Gay 3-pointer!), and Luka went back down the court, launched a long 3... and you just assume as soon as it leaves his hand, yeah, of course it's going in. He assumes it, too. Of course, it did.

He's really something. It's really exceptionally rare for a guy to be willing and able to pour in 40 points, take the decisive shot, and yet also be one of the most talented and enthusiastic creators in the league, slinging passes right on the money that no one else this side of LeBron or Jokic even thinks of. If he has an open look, he takes the shot. If it's not there, he waits until the last possible split-second and then zings the ball to an open teammate. I think he's passed Giannis as my favorite player in the league to watch right now. Gods, I hope he stays healthy.

Re: Milwaukee needing one more wing: I think the plan was that DiVencenzo is supposed to be the guy to fill Brogdon's shoes, and they're giving him 18 minutes a night to help him develop, but the talent just isn't there. He does OK against other teams' benches, but he gets overwhelmed by NBA starters. Mildly useful rotation guy for the long season, but he's not going to help them in the playoffs and ideally shouldn't be playing in the playoffs. But you're right, spivey--hard to see where meaningful wing help is coming from. But I'm sure they'll pick a veteran up in a couple months if they conclude DiVencenzo isn't going to cut it.
   922. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 19, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5902305)
Sorry I kept butchering DiVincenzo's name there, it's bad enough I keep slagging his game :)
   923. spivey Posted: November 19, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5902312)
DiVincenzo has improved a good amount this year, though much of that's shooting. Connaughton I have a soft spot for because of his ability to rebound, dunk, defend, shoot, and pass all at some level of competence. But they're both short, and so is Bledsoe. In some setups they may be able to get away with that (those guys may be able to guard Jaylen Brown to some level of effectiveness), but I don't think they can against the Clippers. Just using the Clippers as an example, having even someone like Harkless instead of Wesley Matthews would go a long way. And Harkless will be getting what, like 10 minutes a night for the Clippers in the playoffs?
   924. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 19, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5902335)
Matthews is, alas, finished. I imagine he'll either have gone out with a long term injury or just been released by playoff time. I'd be surprised if he wasn't the first man out if/when they add help of any kind.
   925. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5902338)
@wojespn
Australia is finalizing an agreement with Sixers coach Brett Brown to become its national team coach again, sources tell ESPN. Brown would coach Aussies in 2020 Olympics. Brown coached Australia in 2012 London Games.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
   926. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5902348)
Pretty sure he's not leaving, stiggles, don't get too excited.
   927. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 19, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5902349)
Sorry I kept butchering DiVincenzo's name there, it's bad enough I keep slagging his game :)


Hey, don't feel bad, it's hard for anyone to get Daffodil DiCaprio's name right.
   928. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5902356)
Hey, don't feel bad, it's hard for anyone to get Daffodil DiCaprio's name right.
just call him white donte.

Pretty sure he's not leaving, stiggles, don't get too excited.
aron baynes isn't walking through that door...
patty mills isn't walking through that door...
joe jingles isn't walking through that door...
   929. aberg Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5902387)
I was really impressed with the Wolves win in Utah last night. I figured we were in for a rough patch after a decisive loss to Washington last week, so bouncing back quickly with the best win of the season is pretty valuable. KAT made 7/15 3s, which is valuable on its own (he's shooting 43% on 9 3pa/g), but also gradually pulled Gobert away from the rim. That allowed Jeff Teague to have his best game of the year with a fairly open lane to attack (Bogey is no Favors in that regard). The Kelan Martin thing was amusing, but one of the Wolves' beat writers pointed out that even somewhat competent shooters should have some good games with Towns's gravity pulling defenses his way. Here are the 3p percentages for guys averaging over 2 3pa/g:

Towns- 43%
Wiggins- 36%
Roco- 35%
Napier- 23%
Layman 35%
Culver- 29% (also somehow 10/29 on FTA, not a good sign)
Martin- 14%
Graham- 16% (7/43!!!)
Teague- 26%
Okogie- 23%
McGlaughlin- 20%

   930. . . . . . . Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:09 PM (#5902390)
its the 15th anniversary of the malice in the palace. long may its memory live within us all.
   931. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5902421)
its the 15th anniversary of the malice in the palace. long may its memory live within us all.
"violence is never the answer.
but sometimes it is.
and unfortunately it happened.
i don't regret it."

-- matt barnes.
   932. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5902442)
KAT ... shooting 43% on 9 3pa/g


I think in the pace and space, Splash Mountain era, we can become desensitized to numbers, but this (and, therefore, the year Towns is having) is ####### insane.
   933. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5902452)
Apparently Garnet Hathaway spit in someone's face last night. I thought he was injured?
   934. jmurph Posted: November 19, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5902464)
Apparently Garnet Hathaway spit in someone's face last night. I thought he was injured?

Booooooooo. Literally just spent like 5 minutes trying to figure out what Gordon Hayward did because of this. But apparently there is an actual person named Garnet Hathaway.

   935. aberg Posted: November 19, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5902465)
This trade can't happen until January, but who says no. Cj McCollum for Teague, Culver, 21 1st.
   936. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 19, 2019 at 06:18 PM (#5902471)
[934] I mean, I saw the headline and my brain immediately thought it was Hayward. I figured I'd share that experience with the group.
   937. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 19, 2019 at 08:54 PM (#5902493)
Melo with a Plus/Minus of -11 in his first 12 minutes of NBA action.
   938. aberg Posted: November 19, 2019 at 09:15 PM (#5902495)
Melo hasn't lost a (jab) step.
   939. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 19, 2019 at 09:52 PM (#5902505)
Why am I watching this NOP/POR game?
   940. smileyy Posted: November 19, 2019 at 10:26 PM (#5902511)
To see what a bad idea Melo is?
   941. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 19, 2019 at 10:27 PM (#5902512)
I wanted to see Simons, I think. But eh.
   942. smileyy Posted: November 19, 2019 at 10:29 PM (#5902513)
Wow -20 in 24 minutes. Just think when he has his legs under him and can play 36 minutes a game!

Seriously, how long until the Melo experience ends this time?
   943. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 19, 2019 at 10:41 PM (#5902514)
I feel bad for Melo. He was always kind of overrated because he was never James or Wade or any of his other buddies, but it's not like he was some chump, either. He definitely looked like one tonight.
   944. Howie Menckel Posted: November 20, 2019 at 12:06 AM (#5902518)
not that it tells us anything close to everything, but I enjoy seeing dead-men-walking stars not even realize who they may pass in career points, like (NBA-only):

16. John Havlicek 26395
17. Kevin Garnett 26071
18. Alex English 25613
19. Carmelo Anthony 25551
20. Vince Carter 25471
   945. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 20, 2019 at 02:04 AM (#5902521)
Just found this absolute beauty of a leaderboard; these are the top 5 highest-turnover seasons in NBA history.
Rk                    Player  Season TOV
1               James Harden 2016
-17 464
2          Russell Westbrook 2016
-17 438
3               James Harden 2018
-19 387
4          Russell Westbrook 2017
-18 381
5               James Harden 2015
-16 374 
   946. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:01 AM (#5902530)
There's a story up about how Paul George and Kawhi Leonard have wanted to play together for a while that includes some juicy quotes. I don't want to go full STIGGLES but here are a couple.

What could have been:
In June 2017 ... "I wanted to be traded to San Antonio," George says. "We wanted to go to San Antonio first, and we didn't make that happen."

And another Kawhi is a strange dude anecdote:
They attended Lou Williams' Halloween birthday party; George appeared as the Night King and Zubac as Jon Snow from "Game of Thrones," Montrezl Harrell was the Wolfman, Patrick Patterson was King Tut and Williams was Michael Jackson from "Thriller". Leonard arrived as himself; the board man did not dress up
   947. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:46 AM (#5902539)
NBA Could Terminate Dinwiddie’s Contract If He Goes Forward With Digital Investment Plan

Spencer Dinwiddie has plans to convert his three-year, $34.4MM contract into a digital investment vehicle that would allow investors to buy a digital token backed by his contract, something that would allow the guard to secure a large upfront payment. The league, which sought outside legal counsel on the matter, is not approving Dinwiddie’s venture for a variety of reasons, as Shams Charania of The Athletic learns.

“At the request of Spencer Dinwiddie and his advisors, we have reviewed a number of variations of their digital token idea,” said Dan Rube, the NBA’s Executive Vice President and Deputy General Counsel. “All of the ideas presented would violate collectively bargained league rules, including rules prohibiting transferring a player’s right to receive NBA salary, gambling on NBA-related matters, and creating financial incentives to miss games.”


I don't think I truly understand any part of this story. WTH?
   948. smileyy Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5902561)
He could have just called J.G. Wentworth
   949. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2019 at 04:30 PM (#5902748)
Oh great news, Kawhi is fit again and plans to play tonight.
*Checks schedule*
####!
   950. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2019 at 04:43 PM (#5902754)
Can't decide who has the worst City Edition jersey of the ones I've seen: Dallas, Boston, or Minnesota. They're horrendous. I think I'm giving it to the Celtics, who have decided to go with the font found on every shitty "Irish" bar in America.

The Dallas one is self-evidently terrible, I don't need to explain that. I like the Wolves colors but the "MSP" thing just looks like some sort of regional Chamber of Commerce effort or, you know, the actual airport.
   951. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 20, 2019 at 05:17 PM (#5902764)
portland releases pau. i think he'll retire.
ncaa suspends wiseman (mem) for 12 (11 more) games, will return 1/12. must donate 11.5k to a charity of his choice.
   952. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 20, 2019 at 06:03 PM (#5902784)
I mean, the issue with the Wolves City jerseys isn't just that they're bad -- it's that the Prince ones were the flat-out best, and anything is going to look bad in comparison.
   953. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 20, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5902817)
Ben Simmons with a 3 pointer.
   954. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 20, 2019 at 07:56 PM (#5902819)
Ben Simmons with a 3 pointer.
i'm fairly sure it was supposed to be an entry pass to horford.
   955. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:18 PM (#5902822)
950--

Lakers have a uniform thing of sorts happening--from the Lakers SB Nation site:

Lakers Chief Operating Officer Tim Harris spoke to Arash Markazi of the L.A. Times, and had this to say about the process of choosing which jerseys to when:


“The gold is overwhelming the favorite color of Lakers fans,” Harris said. “It’s not close, but more and more teams want to wear their dark uniforms at home. We like wearing gold at home, but other teams like wearing dark uniforms at home so we wear gold more on the road, but we didn’t want to marginalize purple by always wearing gold at home because we know we’re going to wear it a lot on the road now too.”


Also, I was not aware of this, although it was obvious:

The other thing to factor in on which uniforms will be worn on any given night is what the league mandates as part of its deal with Nike. Teams can obviously for the most part choose which jerseys will be worn and when, but there are guidelines that must be followed, as an NBA official pointed out to Markazi:

The only requirement is that teams wear their Icon and Association Edition uniforms 10 times each, their Statement Edition uniforms six times and their City or Classic Edition uniforms three times. Outside of those requirements they can do whatever they want. So the Lakers could choose to wear only gold or white for every home game if they wanted to.

“They are allowed to do that,” an NBA official said. “They just have to meet those requirements.”


Old-schoolers don't like seeing the purple at home:

Arash Markazi

@ArashMarkazi
Replying to @ArashMarkazi
The Lakers said they would consider going back to only wearing gold and white at home if their fans demanded it so I’ll ask you, Lakers fans, do you want to see your team only wear gold and white at home?

84%Yes
16%No


The Lakers "City Edition" is arriving tomorrow.
   956. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:33 PM (#5902826)
Any good feeling from Golden State's previous win is going away fast. Mavs pounding them 56-25 after just 18 minutes. Mavs have scored 56 points in 18 minutes! 44 in the first quarter! Ouch.
   957. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:36 PM (#5902827)
The bulls new city edition jerseys are fine, maybe borderline good, but also clearly inferior than the last 2. I like the baby blue, but the large same color logo is bad.
   958. PJ Martinez Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:04 PM (#5902836)
Luka has 33, 6, and 5 at halftime.
   959. Tin Angel Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:16 PM (#5902838)
Have to wonder if Carmelo and Lonzo Ball could turn the Warriors around? Or if Ball isn’t available Jeff Teague?
   960. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:02 PM (#5902845)
Have to wonder if Carmelo and Lonzo Ball could turn the Warriors around? Or if Ball isn’t available Jeff Teague?
or maybe a lightly used tobias harris.
   961. nick swisher hygiene Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:07 PM (#5902847)
Green and Russell were DNP-Coach’s Decision? Or hurt?
The Warriors got minutes from these 8 guys:

E. PaschallPF
G. Robinson IIISF
W. Cauley-SteinC
K. BowmanPG
A. BurksSG
O. SpellmanPF
M. ChrissPF
J. PooleSG

Damn.
   962. Booey Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:37 PM (#5902851)
Much needed revenge win for the Jazz in Minnesota. In fact, it was basically a mirror image of the Wolves win in Utah on Monday, where the road team went on a huge run down the stretch behind a barrage of 3's to make a close game look like an easier win than it really was.

Crazy how much difference a bench player like Ed Davis can make when his replacements are a dumpster fire. Jazz have been terrible whenever Gobert sits ever since Davis went down. Tony Bradley - or playing Jeff Green at center - just ain't getting it done. This is when it would've been nice to still have Favors, but of course his replacement scored 30 points and hit 3 of his 6 threes down the stretch to secure the win, so...yeah.
   963. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2019 at 12:15 AM (#5902862)
Jon Johnson @jonjohnsonwip
Sixers are only team in NBA to have multiple comeback victories when trailing by 17+ points.


   964. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2019 at 12:29 AM (#5902863)
Oof, this one is on Kemba. Tried to take over in the final couple minutes and took them out of it. Fun game though, a lot to like.
   965. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2019 at 01:12 AM (#5902865)
Apparently Garnet Hathaway spit in someone's face last night. I thought he was injured?
quick update: he's been suspended for 3 games.
   966. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 21, 2019 at 02:29 AM (#5902869)
Nobody wants to hear my thoughts on the reffing, but after a couple minutes to calm down, it was heartening to see the Celtics play the Clips that tight with both Kawhi and George back, Gormenghast Halfstack injured*, and Kemba having a lousy game. If they hadn't given Brad that tech, Tatum's 3 would have been a game winner, too.

I can't think of the last time I saw a cameraman so perfectly placed as this.

* There were a few possessions when Kawhi and Beverly were on Tatum and Walker and things got bogged down where he would have been very, very useful.
   967. Thok Posted: November 21, 2019 at 06:08 AM (#5902873)
19. Carmelo Anthony 25551
20. Vince Carter 25471


I'll just point out that Vince Carter has outscored Carmelo 54-10 this season. This might be the low-key weirdest career leaderboard race ever.
   968. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: November 21, 2019 at 08:07 AM (#5902877)
Much needed revenge win for the Jazz in Minnesota.


Per this tweet, the Jazz just don't lose to teams in revenge games. That's bananas.
   969. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5902887)
Nobody wants to hear my thoughts on the reffing, but after a couple minutes to calm down

It was informative to see (on the extremely clear and obvious Paul George push-off that was instead called a foul on the Celtics, and then bizarrely upheld on review) that, as in every other sport in which it's been implemented, replay and coach's challenges will not be the savior. Given the insane number of out of bounds reviews in the 4th quarter and overtime, I'm ready to just toss it all out.

Obviously I would have preferred a win but it didn't bring me down too much. Really good, intense game despite some shooting woes on both sides. The Clippers closing lineup is going to be an absolute beast defensively, they're going to be really tough to beat 4 times in a series.
   970. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 21, 2019 at 09:33 AM (#5902890)
E. PaschallPF
G. Robinson IIISF
W. Cauley-SteinC
K. BowmanPG
A. BurksSG
O. SpellmanPF
M. ChrissPF
J. PooleSG


Egad. That's one rotation player, 2 roster fodder, 3 struggling rookies, and a partridge in a pear tree.
   971. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 21, 2019 at 09:51 AM (#5902898)
to be fair, paschall arguably isn't struggling - he's scoring 17 a game with solid efficiency. (he also doesn't rebound or defend well and is in a role well in excess of what he should have, obv.)
   972. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 21, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5902899)
it was heartening to see the Celtics play the Clips that tight with both Kawhi and George back, Gormenghast Halfstack injured*, and Kemba having a lousy game. If they hadn't given Brad that tech, Tatum's 3 would have been a game winner, too.


Stuff like this generally balances out. Talk to a Clippers fan, and s/he will tell you that they won even though Leonard had a bad shooting night, George was just OK by his standards, Harrell didn't do much, Wanamaker and Kanter both shot very well, and Tatum had a great game. In any given game, some guys are on and some guys are off, even guys as good as Kawhi Leonard. Boston's best "Yeah, but" for this game is that they were bad from 3 (12/45) and stayed in it.

Big picture, Boston clearly appears to be better than most people thought, at least in the regular season, and I will stick with Milwaukee/Clippers as the most likely Finals.

Reffing: If the Lakers and Clippers are in opposite brackets, both make it to the semis, and then both get in to the WCF, we will hear a lot of ref narratives, especially if their semis opponents are Utah and Denver.
   973. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 21, 2019 at 09:54 AM (#5902902)
Ben Simmons with a 3 pointer.


Shooting 100% for the year, put him in the three-point contest.
   974. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 21, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5902906)
As a non-fan of either team (or indeed any team) I feel comfortable asserting: Boston was the better team, and the Clippers won because the refs saw to it.

Home court/field/ice advantage is mostly about officiating.
   975. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 21, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5902910)
A Milwaukee-Boston playoff matchup is very interesting, because in basketball the most important question by far is "who has the best player?" Milwaukee has the best player--but he's a superstar with glaring weaknesses (he can't shoot, and he's prone to getting into foul trouble), and Boston has a much better roster on spots 2-10.

But it's still hard to overstate the impact of the best player. Milwaukee didn't lose to Toronto last year just because of their depth; they lost because Kawhi was better than Giannis. I greatly doubt any Boston player will be that good.

An interesting matchup that I hope we get to see.
   976. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2019 at 10:22 AM (#5902913)
to be fair, paschall arguably isn't struggling - he's scoring 17 a game with solid efficiency. (he also doesn't rebound or defend well and is in a role well in excess of what he should have, obv.)


Paschall looks like a power forward, but he's really just a big wing. For all his bulk and athleticism, he's never been a great rebounder, even at the college level. But he's a rookie scoring with good efficiency and volume on a team with zero offensive talent around him; worst case scenario, he's a rotation player who brings instant offense off the bench. On a team where he's not expected to carry such an offensive load, he should be at least an adequate defender.

The scary thing is that he's basically an impoverished man's Zion. They have similar offensive games, but Zion is bigger, stronger, 30lbs heavier, more athletic, a better rebounder and a superior passer. If Zion ever gets healthy...
   977. DCA Posted: November 21, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5902939)
E. PaschallPF
G. Robinson IIISF
W. Cauley-SteinC
K. BowmanPG
A. BurksSG
O. SpellmanPF
M. ChrissPF
J. PooleSG

Egad. That's one rotation player, 2 roster fodder, 3 struggling rookies, and a partridge in a pear tree.


That's the Warriors minus all 5 of their 5 best players (not sure why Green was out, but the rest are hurt). Paschall, GR3, WCS, Bowman, and Burks is a decent second unit. Spellman's okay for an 11th man, I haven't seen Chriss play this year, and Poole sucks. He has one skill - shooting - and he can't shoot.
   978. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5902959)
the knicks are going to hire sam hinkie as GM.
   979. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2019 at 12:42 PM (#5902966)
A better version of my criticism of Boston's city jersey:
Ryan Bernardoni @dangercart
Only year three of having to design new jerseys every season and already looking like Paddy O'Flannagan's Authentic Irish Pub in Cedar Rapids, IA
   980. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 21, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5902969)
As a non-fan of either team (or indeed any team) I feel comfortable asserting: Boston was the better team, and the Clippers won because the refs saw to it.

Home court/field/ice advantage is mostly about officiating


Your professed neutrality aside, I feel comfortable asserting that:

1. You are a big LOOK AT THAT CALL guy, so you tend to focus on blown calls, especially in situations that fit the narrative.
2. The refs didn't go 12/45 from the arc, and a team that does that in any tight NBA game in today's 3-happy league was probably not the better team that night, even if we attribute that kind of thing entirely to variance.

As to the assertion about HCA, perhaps. I think there have been some studies done. I would like to see some data on 4th quarter FTAs, 4th quarter calls, and close games going to the home team based on late/disputed calls.

   981. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 21, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5902973)
Golden State: As someone noted, I wonder if this will be a 1997 Spurs deal for them. Hit a lottery pick, get Curry and Thompson back, jump back up to 50-55 wins. Could happen.

Uniforms: I am cynical about the whole thing, and I find the constant changes annoying, but part of that is just getting older I am sure. The Irish Pub jokes with the Boston unis are amusing.
   982. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5902977)
Uniforms: I am cynical about the whole thing, and I find the constant changes annoying, but part of that is just getting older I am sure.

I suspect a significant part (it is for me at least) is also being a fan of a team with a classic, highly regarded jersey. Hard to improve on the (non-white) Lakers jerseys.
   983. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 21, 2019 at 01:43 PM (#5902984)
Golden State: As someone noted, I wonder if this will be a 1997 Spurs deal for them. Hit a lottery pick, get Curry and Thompson back, jump back up to 50-55 wins. Could happen.
Can you imagine GSW getting Curry, Thompson, and Green back all healthy, and adding James Wiseman to that? Terrible.
   984. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: November 21, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5903009)
Shooting 100% for the year, put him in the three-point contest.


.584 FG%
1.000 3P%
.579 FT%
   985. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 21, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5903030)
Shooting 100% for the year, put him in the three-point contest.
If you put him in the tree-point context, he might even shoot another one
   986. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 21, 2019 at 04:30 PM (#5903034)
The refs didn't go 12/45 from the arc, and a team that does that in any tight NBA game in today's 3-happy league was probably not the better team that night
Point granted, but the Celtics didn't blow a clear-cut block/charge call that lead to a Beverly 3 (and, indirectly, a technical foul on Stevens); if you want to throw that one out because of the subjective nature of the call, then neither did they choose to overlook a blatant offensive push off on coach's challenge because "it happened before the gather" and the subsequent ticky-tack defensive foul; and if you're fine with that because hey, the rules are the rules, nor did they miss an obvious 24-second violation on an airballed shot which lead to a live-ball transition 3. All were before the end of regulation, which, given that it was an overtime game, might have affected the outcome just a touch. That said, I don't expect us to come out of any close LA/Boston matchup with the same takeaways, and that's fine.

The Celtics overachieving relative to expectations is straightforward to explain with rr's patent-pending "just count the [potential] stars" analysis: Kemba roughly equals Kyrie's production; and if Haymaker came back looking Jazzy and any big man proved as adequate on defense as Theis has, that roughly makes up for Horford's lost two-way value. Given both of those actually came to pass, either of Tatum or Brown taking a step (let alone a leap) forward would make them a better team than last year; since both of them and Smart (who is still just 25) have shown meaningful improvement (especially Brown's handle), the team's improvement is likely to stick.
   987. aberg Posted: November 21, 2019 at 11:27 PM (#5903091)
Giannis became the 16th player in nba history with a 15-15-15 tonight. 50th overall such performance. Russ, Wilt, and Oscar have the major of them. Russ and Wilt have the only 20-20-20 games.
   988. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 22, 2019 at 10:42 PM (#5903359)
Lakers win another close one, this time on the road. Rondo gets tossed for being exactly the same piece of #### he's been since his first day in the league.
   989. aberg Posted: November 23, 2019 at 12:02 AM (#5903364)
Rondo gets tossed for being exactly the same piece of #### he's been since his first day in the league.


Didn't he get a foul hat trick? A flagrant, technical, and personal foul in the same game?
   990. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 23, 2019 at 01:44 AM (#5903372)
since both of them and Smart (who is still just 25) have shown meaningful improvement (especially Brown's handle), the team's improvement is likely to stick.

I haven't watched them play much so I can't comment too much but it's not clear to me that those three have improved from a statistical perspective. They are scoring more points but worse percentages for the most part.
   991. tshipman Posted: November 23, 2019 at 02:31 AM (#5903373)
Interesting hypo (to me): who goes 1, 2, 3 in a hypothetical redraft of the 2017 draft?

You could make a case for quite a few guys.
   992. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 23, 2019 at 03:38 AM (#5903374)
Dallas has won its last two games by 40+ points. They're probably going to be second in the West in SRS when today's results hit. Not sure if margin of victory like that is predictive at all, and the Warriors and Cavs at home are certainly not a murderer's row, but it has been a good 96 minutes for the Mavericks. Luka scored 30 on 11-18 shooting with 7 boards and 14 assists in 3 quarters today.
   993. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 23, 2019 at 03:55 AM (#5903375)
Spurs are 5-11 after losing in Philadelphia. Who says no:

Sixers get:
Gregg Popovich
LaMarcus Aldridge
Patty Mills

Spurs get:
Brett Brown
Tobias Harris
Matisse Thybulle
PHI 2022 first-rounder
   994. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 23, 2019 at 05:00 AM (#5903377)
   995. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 23, 2019 at 05:04 AM (#5903378)
All were before the end of regulation, which, given that it was an overtime game, might have affected the outcome just a touch. That said, I don't expect us to come out of any close LA/Boston matchup with the same takeaways, and that's fine.

The Celtics overachieving relative to expectations is straightforward to explain with rr's patent-pending "just count the [potential] stars" analysis:

I get the twitchiness and the snark, but you are missing a couple of things:

1. I am a Lakers fan, not a Clippers fan. A few people in the Lakers blogosphere have pointed out (and this is a Bill Simmonsish thing too--don't read him so don't know if he has said it, but seems like his kind of thing) that the Clippers have sort of actually arrived now, since most Lakers fans now actively want them to lose, between them having had Paul and now the Leonard/George thing. So who Boston was playing in that game had nothing to do with my reaction to the ref stuff or my "takeaways." As I actually said, my big-picture observations were that Boston does appear to be better than people (including me) thought, and that the Clippers should still be favored in the West, even though the Lakers are 13-2 right now.
2. I am very much not into ref narratives in general. There are Lakers fans who will tell you even now that the key to the 2008 Finals was the refs, and it is bullshitt. Boston had a better team. There were Boston guys here in the early days of the thread in 2010 blaming the refs for that Finals outcome, and that was bullshitt, too. Boston lost that series because they were not a very good offensive team by Finals standards, and they scored 67 and and 79 in two games that could have won the title for them if they had been able to get 90 points on the board in either one.

In a case like this, where you are arguing that a series of egregiously blown calls cost your team the game, I remember that Bill James once said about baseball, even in a close game or series, many things make the difference, not just one or two. So I think it is generally a better idea to focus on what the players did and did not do (or if you are a tactics guy, the coaches) rather than the refs, in part because your team has some control over that, and can change it to some degree. YMMV. Otoh, people complaining about the refs is as constant as the 10-12 Primates thread lede. If the Lakers lose in OT when they go into Boston this year, I can guarantee ahead of time that there will be people on the Lakers discussion boards talking about bad calls, and I can guarantee that I will not be one of them.

As to the "patent pending" comment, I have owned a few times, especially after my comments about Budenholzer last year, (Spoelstra is making that kind of case case right now) that I do in fact have in some ways a pretty simplistic view of the NBA. But I would suggest that that view has historical and current merit. Gregg Popovich and Steve Kerr's teams are a combined 8-25 right now, and unless we think that they have suddenly gotten dumb, that is simply a question of lack of star-quality personnel. People including Zach Lowe always talk about how smart Rick Carlisle is, but his teams had been losing for awhile. His team is winning again now--because he has a new star. Frank Vogel's teams went 54-110 over his last two years in Orlando, but his new team is doing a little better than that now.

So, yeah, Walker (assuming his injury is not serious, and I hope it is not) more or less replaces Irving, and I said that in July. I was skeptical about Hayward post-injury and have always been skeptical about Tatum and Brown, but if those boxes get checked, then yes, Boston will be pretty good or even very good. And while I think his rep is overblown, I have also said several times that I think Stevens has shown that he is a good coach
   996. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 23, 2019 at 08:34 AM (#5903384)
Dallas has won its last two games by 40+ points. They're probably going to be second in the West in SRS when today's results hit. Not sure if margin of victory like that is predictive at all, and the Warriors and Cavs at home are certainly not a murderer's row, but it has been a good 96 minutes for the Mavericks. Luka scored 30 on 11-18 shooting with 7 boards and 14 assists in 3 quarters today.


Blowing out opponents that a good team should blow out is a significant indicator of quality. That said... they played the two worst teams in the NBA at home. There’s only so far you can draw conclusions from that.

If Luka plays 70+ the Mavs look comfortably like a playoff team, though, which is impressive. And I sure as #### would want no part of Luka and Pals in the first round if I were one of the Western contenders.
   997. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5903387)
Interesting hypo (to me): who goes 1, 2, 3 in a hypothetical redraft of the 2017 draft?

Fox/Mitchell/Tatum in some order, right? Can't see a case for anyone else.
   998. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5903388)
If Luka plays 70+ the Mavs look comfortably like a playoff team

It looks like there are only 5 automatic teams this year, so I can't imagine Dallas missing out, based on current circumstances at least.
   999. . . . . . . Posted: November 23, 2019 at 09:39 AM (#5903389)
I just get wronger and wronger about Luka with each week.
   1000. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 23, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5903390)
Interesting hypo (to me): who goes 1, 2, 3 in a hypothetical redraft of the 2017 draft?

Fox/Mitchell/Tatum in some order, right? Can't see a case for anyone else.

I think Bam has earned his way into that mix, he's been fantastic this year. My inclination would be Tatum first, and then probably De'aaron. I never watch the Kings or Jazz though so I might be underrating their guys.
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