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Saturday, February 29, 2020

OT Soccer Thread - Spring 2020

Other thread isn’t accepting comments so it’s time for a new thread!

Second Legs of the round of 16;

March 10;
Valencia-Atalanta (1-4)
Leipzig-Tottenham (1-0)

March 11;
PSG-Dortmund (1-2)
Liverpool-Atleti (0-1)

March 17;
ManCity-Real Madrid (2-1)
Juventus-Lyon (0-1)

March 18;
Bayern-Chelsea (3-0)
Barca-Napoli (1-1)

Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: February 29, 2020 at 07:40 PM | 247 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, soccer

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   201. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: May 03, 2020 at 11:13 AM (#5947075)
On the lawsuit, is there any way to decouple the disparate playing/travel conditions from pay? Regardless of where the law comes down on the contracts and negotiations, the stuff like playing on AstroTurf is just ridiculous.
   202. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 03, 2020 at 11:54 AM (#5947084)
From ESPNFC

The Telegraph claims that Tottenham midfielder Tanguy Ndombele is determined to fight for his place at the club.

There have been numerous reports linking the Frenchman with a move to Barcelona after manager Jose Mourinho singled him out for criticism in the 1-1 draw at Burnley.

But, the newspaper says Ndombele wants to stay after acknowledging injuries and change in management have not helped him settle in his debut campaign in England.
   203. Mefisto Posted: May 03, 2020 at 12:24 PM (#5947094)
   204. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 03, 2020 at 12:42 PM (#5947105)
We shall see. Seems pretty stupid to not give a 2nd chance, but who knows if he can escape Jose's doghouse at this point.

Sounds like Foyth is gone as well.

Can't wait to see which downside Jose Approved Veterans Spurs bring in this window (whenever this window opens).
   205. spivey Posted: May 03, 2020 at 03:03 PM (#5947131)
Foyth I'd love to go out on loan, but if you can't and you get a team that gives you 20 million pounds for him I think you just take it and move along. He's a walking red card and his skill on the ball gets him into trouble as much as it helps the team out. I think he's similar to Stones was. If things break right, he could be great. But he could also just end up sucking.

For Ndombele, I think I'd sell him if we can get most/all of the money back. If you read the reports before he moved to Tottenham, he's had questions about his work ethic his entire career. How motivated is he to put in the seriously hard and painful work it is to get in world class shape? I've not seen it, and I frankly think too many Tottenham fans on CFC are giving him a free pass because of injuries and manager switch. This is a situation where the team knows the situation better than a fan - do they trust him to put in the work.

If he was able to put in the km/game that Eriksen did, I think Ndombele could be a top 3 midfielder in the league. It's a testament to how talented he is that he's made it to this level without, you know, being in shape.
   206. Baldrick Posted: May 03, 2020 at 04:26 PM (#5947148)
On the lawsuit, is there any way to decouple the disparate playing/travel conditions from pay? Regardless of where the law comes down on the contracts and negotiations, the stuff like playing on AstroTurf is just ridiculous.

Yes. They are separate claims. The judge found against the pay disparity claims grounded in the Equal Pay Act and Title VII as a summary judgment, but the playing condition arguments are still going forward and will (at least in theory) go to trial.
   207. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 04, 2020 at 09:34 PM (#5947655)
Wow ... I completely missed this story when it happened

Carlos Cordeiro has resigned as US Soccer Federation president three days after the organization filed legal papers in a gender discrimination case claiming female players had less physical ability and responsibility than men.

His decision elevated the former American midfielder Cindy Parlow Cone to become the first female president in the history of the federation.

Cordeiro announced his resignation on Twitter without telling the federation’s communications staff. He stepped down on a day several USSF board members issued extraordinary rebukes that criticized the governing body’s legal filings. Among them were Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber and Cone, the federation’s vice-president.


Zoinks!

H/T Graun

Anyone know what was so offensive in the legal filings? The article from the Graun didn't elaborate?
   208. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 05, 2020 at 02:58 PM (#5948045)
One thing, now that I've thought about it and there have been postings like this where it appears Spurs will not have a transfer budget without raising funds is ... well, Spurs might very well not have a transfer budget without raising funds.

Ndombele might just be the best shot they've got of raising a decent amount of money.

I still think it is premature, but under the circumstances, I at least understand it ...
   209. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 05, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5948057)
The law firm had to (or at least chose to) withdraw from representing US Soccer after this debacle. A certain firm I happen to know well has taken over the representation.
   210. Baldrick Posted: May 05, 2020 at 04:45 PM (#5948080)
Finally got my piece together on the USWNT ruling. It's really more a meta-commentary on the coverage of the case and the limits of antidiscrimination law.
   211. Baldrick Posted: May 05, 2020 at 04:48 PM (#5948081)
Anyone know what was so offensive in the legal filings?

Trying to show that the men and women were not doing equivalent work, they made a bunch of claims about how men are bigger and stronger and face higher levels of pressure because more people care about men's soccer. They have to face hostile crowds. Stuff like that.

It was all very bizarre and unnecessary, as shown by the fact that they had a perfectly strong case on the straightforward facts and really didn't need to go scorched earth on a flyer.
   212. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 05, 2020 at 06:11 PM (#5948128)
Thanks, that certainly explains the negative fallout from the filing.
   213. Mefisto Posted: May 05, 2020 at 07:07 PM (#5948165)
That's a good article Baldrick.
   214. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 06, 2020 at 09:03 AM (#5948280)
LOL ... tell us what you really think, Jorgelina!

Di Maria's wife continued the ill-feeling when discussing the city of Manchester and its female inhabitants.

"The people are all pasty-faced, prim and proper ... weird. They're walking down the street and you don't know if they're going to kill you or what. The food's disgusting. All the girls are all dolled up to the nines, perfectly made-up and there's me with my hair in a bun and with no make-up on," she added.

"We try to be closer when things go bad. I did not blame him for being there. I just told him, 'Darling, I want to kill myself, it is already night at 14:00 p.m. in the afternoon.'


ESPN has reached out to manchestermets for comment!
   215. spivey Posted: May 06, 2020 at 09:45 AM (#5948286)
Looks like the German government has given the Bundesliga the green light to start back up in May, with likely dates of beginning being May 15 or 22. I'm not sure what I think about starting back so soon, but I will be watching.
   216. Baldrick Posted: May 06, 2020 at 12:56 PM (#5948366)
Seems like a pretty bad idea to me, and I'm still skeptical it will actually happen. But I suppose I'm happy that someone is taking the first step since it will give us a much better sense of what is possible for everyone else.

It would certainly be nice to have some soccer to watch again.
   217. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 07, 2020 at 10:32 AM (#5948617)
Looks like May 16th is the day:

Soccer matches in Germany's top two divisions will begin without spectators from May 16, making it the first major European country to announce a return to top-flight soccer.

The announcement by the Deutsche Fußball Liga association on Thursday follows talks between Chancellor Angela Merkel and the leaders of Germany's 16 federal states that included a commitment to allow the Bundesliga to resume in the second half of May with strict hygiene protocols in place.


Link
   218. jmurph Posted: May 14, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5950374)
Well I have no idea if it's smart or not but I am glad to have soccer coming back. I don't really care about the Bundesliga but I'll certainly watch.
   219. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 14, 2020 at 02:16 PM (#5950488)
League 1 and League 2 are voting to end their seasons (probably) and may use points per game as criteria for promotion.

In League 1, that means Wycombe Wanderers (GD +5) would replace Peterborough United (GD +28) in the promotion playoffs.

538 has Peterborough as the top team in League 1, and Wycombe as below average.


   220. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 16, 2020 at 09:25 AM (#5951142)
Giovanny Reyna in the starting XI for Dortmund.
   221. Mefisto Posted: May 16, 2020 at 09:31 AM (#5951145)
David put Uriah in the front line too.
   222. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 16, 2020 at 10:12 AM (#5951150)
So far so good from an entertaininment standpoint. I’m not missing the crowd as much as I expected though of course it is noticeable in its absence. I think there needs to be some work done to address the mix of sound. The field microphones seem to overwhelm the announcers at times but it stands to reason that way the field was miked up would be different when there are 0 people in the stands rather than 75,000. As it is I feel like It;m getting a good handle on just how much the stadium holds the noise.
   223. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 16, 2020 at 11:26 AM (#5951167)
Not missing the crowd. The players might be missing it though.

Freiberg with a shock winner on the road to Leipzig in the last minute of injury time, but called back on the truly narrowest of offsides. 1-1 draw still a bad result for Leipzig, and might even end the title chase for them.
   224. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 16, 2020 at 12:52 PM (#5951187)
Can a "bad run of form" really "continue" after a 2-month break?

Alternative theory--team isn't that good.
   225. Baldrick Posted: May 16, 2020 at 02:32 PM (#5951207)
Well, I enjoyed it. Wish the games were a little closer, but it was really nice to have some soccer back in my life.
   226. Baldrick Posted: May 17, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5951422)
Wasn't especially excited about Köln-Mainz this morning but I was up and put it on. It's been marvelous. Much more fun than the blowouts I watched yesterday.
   227. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 17, 2020 at 12:29 PM (#5951436)
Bayern had a goal called back for offside. On the last pass only the goalie remained ahead of the recipient, Mueller. Not an easy call though, because the passer's foot was ahead of Mueller when the ball was played. The rule, though, is Mueller (any part of him other than his arms) only has to be ahead of the ball itself when the ball is played, not ahead of the ball player when the ball is played. Since the ball was played with the head of the passer, the ball was a couple feet back behind the foot of the ball player when it was played.

Offside looked like the correct call, then. However, the announcers confused matters by misstiating the rule, saying the pass itself went forward, therefore Mueller was offside. Whether the ball is passed forward or not actually anywhere in the rule, as we've seen on those short corner offside calls where the ball is passed backward to a player coming from an offside position.
   228. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 17, 2020 at 02:57 PM (#5951468)
I have to say I got passed the absence of the crowd pretty quickly. I was surprised by this.
   229. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 18, 2020 at 10:34 AM (#5951604)
I have to say I got passed the absence of the crowd pretty quickly. I was surprised by this.


Funny, when I pass, I get past the presence of the crowd pretty quickly ... but then, I've been to Burning Man 10 times ...

;)
   230. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 18, 2020 at 11:14 AM (#5951633)
I never remember which version of passed/past to use.
   231. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: May 18, 2020 at 11:43 AM (#5951649)
I think it depends on the crowd ...
   232. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: May 23, 2020 at 11:18 AM (#5953099)
Red card for Wolfsburg through VAR, probably seals this game. Was a weird one though. My first impression was that there was no way it was a red, and the two of them just got tangled up. But the more often I watched the replay (not even different angles, like the same replay), the worse it looked. And by the end I felt it was a solid red. Can't remember ever having that experience before.
   233. Baldrick Posted: May 23, 2020 at 12:59 PM (#5953121)
I watched Gladbach-Leverkusen this morning, and good lord were Gladbach awful. They were put under a lot of pressure, so I suppose I should credit the opposition. But it was really shocking that a team who was still potentially in the title race could be that bad.
   234. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 23, 2020 at 02:34 PM (#5953133)
Leverkusen started out the game running circles around them, but Gladbach ended up getting into the game quite a bit. Stats had it pretty even except for the penalty.

On the year, it was Gladbach with the very hot start, but they have probably never been better than any of the four teams now ahead of them (counting Leipzig with the game in hand), Leverkusen had a slow start but have turned it on in the second half of the season, and the other three are a clear step above.

   235. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 23, 2020 at 07:45 PM (#5953157)
See I thought the Wolfsburg red was harsh. I think it is one that looks a lot worse in slow motion.
   236. puck Posted: May 23, 2020 at 08:29 PM (#5953160)
It's been nice to have the games. I feel oddly disconnected from them. Some of it is I watched more EPL but some of it is the 2 month layoff.
   237. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 23, 2020 at 09:49 PM (#5953168)
I’m the opposite. I’ve been surprised at how much I’ve enjoyed the games. The lack of crowd is something I’ve stopped noticing pretty quickly.
   238. spivey Posted: May 26, 2020 at 02:45 PM (#5953602)
Bayern v Dortmund was a sloppy game, but an entertaining one. Pretty even to me. I thought Bayern looked more dangerous when they were breaking, but it seemed like Dortmund had the ball in Bayern's final 3rd more. I thought each team deserved a penalty. Boateng slipped and then flopped his body in the way of Haaland's shot. His upper arm blocked the shot and it looked like it was potentially on target (and if it was on target it was going to be a goal). And then one of the Dortmund defenders just absolutely barged Lewandowski to the ground late in the match. Looked like the defender was trying to shoulder barge him, but was a bit behind Lewandowski and really extended the arm. Those sorts of plays shouldn't be let go, and I think it's called a penalty in other game situations. I think the ref just didn't want to end the season on that call.

And speaking of, the season's over, probably. I guess there are enough games and guys are getting hurt enough to where if Lewandowski went down, maybe Bayern drops a fair number of points. But speaking of injuries, Haaland limped off the field in the 70th minute on a non-contact injury. I hope he's not too hurt.
   239. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 26, 2020 at 03:33 PM (#5953623)
I didn't see the game (thought it was a 2:30 start rather than noon) but I saw the Boateng play. As I understand it it wasn't even reviewed which...WTF? How is that not looked at? I hate replay and one of the zillion or so reasons I hate it is the stuff like this that gets ignored. If we're going to be stuck with it, fix this stuff.
   240. frannyzoo Posted: May 26, 2020 at 03:44 PM (#5953626)
The "crowd" at Leverkusen's Bay Arena is definitely in full voice tonight, but I'm sticking to listening to Lee Konitz (RIP) records with the "crowd" on mute.

Also, the "crowd" doesn't seem to be helping in terms of scoreline presently.
   241. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: May 26, 2020 at 04:10 PM (#5953637)
Totally forgot the games were on. Yeah, that's pretty much it for Bundesliga winner. Still an interesting battle for 4th place.
   242. spivey Posted: May 26, 2020 at 05:47 PM (#5953669)
I didn't see the game (thought it was a 2:30 start rather than noon) but I saw the Boateng play. As I understand it it wasn't even reviewed which...WTF? How is that not looked at? I hate replay and one of the zillion or so reasons I hate it is the stuff like this that gets ignored. If we're going to be stuck with it, fix this stuff.


No, it wasn't reviewed, and the announcers didn't even really talk about it. It was boggling to me. The first one said it took a deflection, but it was probably going wide. Then they showed the replay and it looks like it may not have been going wide, and the other announcer says that. They both seem to acknowledge it hit his arm, but I don't think either brought up a penalty either in the moment or the rest of the game.
   243. Baldrick Posted: May 26, 2020 at 06:11 PM (#5953672)
The more I think about the handball rule, the more I hate every conceivable version of the handball rule. I'm increasingly inclined to think the rule should be intentionally super-vague and require a judgment call from the referee. Which is insane. I'm just not sure it's worse than the attempt to specify the rule.
   244. KronicFatigue Posted: May 26, 2020 at 06:30 PM (#5953677)
Um, I'm confused about people talking about "not missing the crowds". I know the stands were empty, but on FS1 it sounded like there was a crowd. I presumed it was fake pumped in sounds. I hated it.
   245. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: May 30, 2020 at 09:29 AM (#5954474)
The streams I have been watching over here definitely have not had any sort of fake crowd noise. But going with fake crowd noise would definitely be a very fox thing to do. There's a lot of echo from sound bouncing around the empty arena, but I mostly got used to it pretty quickly.
   246. Pirate Joe Posted: May 31, 2020 at 07:31 PM (#5954616)
Um, I'm confused about people talking about "not missing the crowds". I know the stands were empty, but on FS1 it sounded like there was a crowd. I presumed it was fake pumped in sounds. I hated it.


It was especially bad in the Dortmund - Paderborn game today. A Paderborn player would shoot the ball 15 yards wide of the goal, and the "crowd" would go wild. A real crowd would have been groaning at how poor the shot was, but the fake "crowd" seemed to love it.

   247. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: May 31, 2020 at 08:01 PM (#5954619)
244 - I know I mentioned it the first week and there were no crowd sounds that week. I didn’t see any of this week’s action but last week I saw games with the fake crowds and it was neither plus or minus for me.
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