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Monday, August 09, 2021

OT Soccer Thread - Transfer! Kits! Other Stuff!

Bundesliga, Premier League and La Liga start August 13.

Serie A August 20.

Ligue Une started this weekend.  I haven’t paid attention to much but I assume defending champions Lille are expected to repeat.

Champions League, Europa League and Europa Conference last qualifying rounds are the week of August 16 with draws for the group stages on the 27th.

Women’s Champions League qualifying rounds are the week of the 16th as well.

English Women’s Super League starts September 3rd.

Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: August 09, 2021 at 09:01 AM | 459 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, soccer

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   301. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 27, 2021 at 05:09 PM (#6042004)
How good is Brighton? Decent, most likely. Problem for them is the EPL right now has 4 teams way out of their league, two more that if they get their act together are comfortably out of their league (Arsenal and Spurs), and a few others that are at least as good as them, and probably a little better, starting with West Ham, and including Leicester and Everton and probably Villa and Wolves. Brighton at the moment seems solidly midtable and would need a lot of luck to reach Europe next year. I still like the London teams Arsenal, West Ham, and probably Spurs for those spots, but it's pretty wide open.
   302. bunyon Posted: September 27, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6042043)
Not really knowing much about them, I was pulling hard for them today. I figure what you figure in 301: They aren't finishing in Europe or even close. So having a short run at the top of the table early, but not first game early, seemed something meaningful(ish) for them. Alas.

   303. jmurph Posted: September 28, 2021 at 01:16 PM (#6042133)
CBS still going with no actual live games available on cable channels? I have Paramount+ anyway, this doesn't impact me at all, but it's amazing that year after year the American networks go with the strategy of extracting slightly more money from the small sliver of people who already care about soccer rather than actually trying to get more people to watch it. Manchester City vs PSG! Messi! I don't get it.
   304. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 02:04 PM (#6042141)
Losing 0-1 at home against RealMadrid in a game they mostly dominated was a sore disappointment for Inter. Not beating Shakhtar would put them in an unenviable spot, though still favored to advance. Inter looks a little poor in the first 15 minutes of the second half, so need to get a move on.
   305. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 02:27 PM (#6042144)
Dumfries with the horse collar tackle in the open field. Yellow only. Maybe should have been a straight red, though at least he didn't drop to his knees to use his body weight to pull down the attacking player.
   306. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#6042149)
Inter decided to turn it on for the last 5 minutes, but couldn't get a goal. Couple of very nice saves by the Shakhtar keeper late. Being in a weak group where the expected third place team has already lost to the minnowest of minnows means Inter should still be strongly favored to advance. Even better for them they face Madrid in the last game where Madrid will very likely have already clinched.

After Inter lost the first game, at home even, their odds to advance actually went up because Sheriff beat Shakhtar. Now another setback but their odds will likely go up again so long as RealMadrid beats Sheriff, which is very likely. As little as 7 points might end up being enough to get Inter second place.

When the format changes in a couple years, it will be even harder for the top teams to go out in the group stage. What a drag.
   307. bunyon Posted: September 28, 2021 at 03:30 PM (#6042155)
Anyone else having streaming issues on Paramount? It's really choppy. Rest of my internet seems fine.
   308. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 03:48 PM (#6042157)
Brugge and Sheriff both up at the half! Wasn't watching, but maybe I'll turn the Sheriff game on for the 2nd.

City can't buy a break despite mostly dominating, and Liverpool is having no trouble whatsoever with Porto.
   309. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 03:58 PM (#6042159)
Saw De Bruyne's foul just now. That was worse than AWB's last round, but De Bruyne escaped with a yellow. Very lucky for City.

edit: Announcers talking about intention to foul/injure, but that cuts exactly the same way for De Bruyne and AWB. Neither is normally a dirty player and in the particular case neither made an intentionally dirty play.
   310. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:06 PM (#6042161)
bunyon - working fine for me on my phone.

If this scoreline stands for a bit longer Sheriff will be engaging in some truly sensational shithousery I suspect.
   311. spivey 2 Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:08 PM (#6042162)
No idea how Bernardo missed that follow up on the double crossbar. A lot of interesting halftime score lines.
   312. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:20 PM (#6042165)
See this is the kind of play that probably should be a penalty. Sheriff defender clips Vinicius' toe ever so mildly but it definitely has an effect and sends Vinicius down when he is in a great spot to score.

Oh and now the ref gives a penalty that I don't think should be one. Vinicius tries to split two defenders who ward him off. There is some contact but to me its minimal and Vinicius makes the most of it but the ref goes to the screen (unlike on the first one) and gives the PK.
   313. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6042166)
Didn't see the first one, but the second one was marginal for sure. There was contact but the ball was almost certainly not retrievable by the offensive player already, and he was looking for the foul. Still a stupid play by the defender who didn't need to stick his leg out anymore at that point, with the defensive cover he had from the other defender.
   314. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:32 PM (#6042168)
I don’t know how to change it but for me that doesn’t make things better. Offsides is meant to avoid cherry picking and easy breakaways but Wood was maybe 6-7 yards away from the ball when it was played and frankly had he been 6 inches further back he still would have scored. The call was right and the VAR check was very quick but it just disappoints as a neutral viewer. I don’t know how to change it to make it better but there is something I find unappealing about the defender stepping up to make the player be offsides rather than truly “defending.”
Some have suggested that what soccer really needs is a rule more like the blue line in hockey. Not sure I agree, but it is an interesting idea.
   315. jmurph Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:36 PM (#6042170)
City are playing really well. Also it’s 2-0 PSG.
   316. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:41 PM (#6042172)
Yeah these teams don't look evenly matched at all, and the game is in Paris. PSG might take some time to gel so things could be different by the time the KP stage rolls around.
   317. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:45 PM (#6042175)
SHERIFF!!!!!
   318. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6042176)
Some have suggested that what soccer really needs is a rule more like the blue line in hockey. Not sure I agree, but it is an interesting idea.


Yeah I love hockey but I don't think I'd want to see a blue line. I have no problem with guys playing a well executed offsides trap but sometimes it just feels a little too "gotcha" for me. I don't know how to make it better.
   319. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6042177)
Heh. Sheriff are going to beat RealMadrid in Spain. They played well too. Not the better side, but not seriously outclassed either from the parts I saw.
   320. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 28, 2021 at 04:58 PM (#6042179)
I watched the second half and I think you have it. Real had a couple of good chances but Sheriff never looked panicked. They were just very solid defensively.
   321. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 28, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6042181)
Well the final xG turned out not to be close, and especially not close if you count the penalty! Doesn't count the close offside call. Still, I don't remember a lot of high xG chances for Real Madrid.
   322. bunyon Posted: September 28, 2021 at 06:08 PM (#6042192)
I don’t know how to change it but for me that doesn’t make things better. Offsides is meant to avoid cherry picking and easy breakaways but Wood was maybe 6-7 yards away from the ball when it was played and frankly had he been 6 inches further back he still would have scored. The call was right and the VAR check was very quick but it just disappoints as a neutral viewer. I don’t know how to change it to make it better but there is something I find unappealing about the defender stepping up to make the player be offsides rather than truly “defending.”

Some have suggested that what soccer really needs is a rule more like the blue line in hockey. Not sure I agree, but it is an interesting idea.


There was a Leicester game a while back where there were two really close offsides on corners. It made me think that there should be no offsides on a corner. Like, until the defense can clear the ball past the penalty box, there are no offside calls. Like a modified blue line. If the ball goes outside that line, the offense doesn't have to clear, but offside turns back on.


Is this an issue at all outside the US? It kind of feels like the US antipathy toward draws and PKs. The offside rule clearly isn't perfect but it's very good. Probably best to leave it alone unless you have a slam dunk improvement.
   323. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 29, 2021 at 08:22 AM (#6042292)
Is this an issue at all outside the US? It kind of feels like the US antipathy toward draws and PKs. The offside rule clearly isn't perfect but it's very good. Probably best to leave it alone unless you have a slam dunk improvement.


As to the initial question I don't know but it does seem like soccer fans love to complain in general. I 100% agree that without a slam dunk improvement changing it is a bad idea.

Still, I don't remember a lot of high xG chances for Real Madrid.


That's my take too. Real had the ball a lot and were threatening but there were not many times where I felt like "oh this is a goal."
   324. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 08:28 AM (#6042294)
Despite the interesting scorelines yesterday, in the end the only team initially favored to advance out of groups A-D that has seen its odds go down since the group stage started is Inter, and their odds of advancement have only gone down very slightly. There's just not enough variance at the group stage.

Teams originally slated to drop to Europa by finishing third in their group have struggled. Leipzig, Milan, and Shakhtar now all have basically no hope of advancing, and will have a lot of work to do if they even want to get a Europa spot. Sporting also has no points, but neither does Besiktas, so Sporting could still easily finish third.
   325. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:45 PM (#6042358)
The Premier League is considering whether to "reward" clubs whose coronavirus vaccination rates are high.
The league said only seven clubs' squads are more than 50% fully vaccinated.
WTF is wrong with these guys. I guess they'd rather miss games than get vaccinated? I suppose some unvaccinated have already had the virus but I doubt it's more than half of them.
   326. bunyon Posted: September 29, 2021 at 01:51 PM (#6042361)
There is ample evidence that vaccine rates fall as education level drops. Footballers are notoriously under-educated and very confident of their personal strength. I'm sure I'm oversimplying and stereotyping but we see the same trends a bit in the US.

It isn't clear, would the reward be team points? Maybe Brighton could go on a trip to the chemist and rise to top of the table.
   327. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 03:34 PM (#6042385)
People like to say professional athletes are less intelligent than the average person, but I've always thought that intelligence was also an asset on the field, so I never believed it. On the other hand, being supreme athletes all their lives and usually being super dedicated to their craft, it seems like most professional athletes never had to bother learning anything else about the world. Their under-educatedness and overconfidence often comes across seeming like a lack of intelligence, even if it isn't.
   328. bunyon Posted: September 29, 2021 at 03:46 PM (#6042389)
327: Agree with all of that. They aren't unintelligent. They're uneducated. My understanding of the football academies is that the stars - that is the ones who have a real shot at the top levels - basically leave school after grade school. They're brilliant on the pitch and probably would be brilliant tacticians and strategists in many areas if given the chance. But they aren't and so they don't really know what they're making a decision on. If the influencer they most like doesn't like vaccines, they don't either. And they're physically strong in ways most of us can barely imagine, so the idea of dying from the flu is completely alien.

   329. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6042399)
United really misses AWB today. Shaw too I assume, but Dalot has been especially vulnerable on the right-side wing. Currently looking up from a huge hole, down 0-1 to Villarreal. They won't be favorites to advance if they lose this one.
   330. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6042405)
2-0 Benfica! That puts Barca in a bit of a hole. They will still be favored to advance (I think...), considering that Benfica could only draw Kyiv in the first round and this game today was in Portugal. It's getting tight for them though.

edit: 3-0. sheesh.
   331. spivey 2 Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:53 PM (#6042410)
Pretty awful performances from United and Barcelona.
   332. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 04:56 PM (#6042412)
To be fair, United played much, much better in the second half, but they were lucky to get the win for sure. On the balance Villarreal probably outplayed them, in Manchester even.
   333. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 29, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6042413)
So after all that, Barca might be the only team that is no longer favored to advance, as compared to the situation prior to the group stage. Maybe Salzburg is ahead of Wolfsburg now, but I'm guessing not.
   334. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 07:57 AM (#6042507)
after 2 rounds, betting odds:
             current   after R1   pre-tourney 
Group A
PSG             94         83         81
City            90         92         82 
Brugge          10          7          5 
Leipzig          6         22         32

Group B
Liverpool       94         86         75 
Atleti          78         53         62 
Porto           15         28         24 
Milan           13         33         36

Group C      
Dortmund        95         89         78 
Ajax            92         82         57 
Sporting         7         16         44 
Besiktas         4         13         21

Group D
RealMadrid      91         94         90
Inter           72         79         75 
Sheriff         29          7          4 
Shakhtar         8         16         31

Group E     
Bayern          98         94         86 
Benfica         60         31         30 
Barcelona       35         65         76 
Kyiv             7         10          8 

Group F
United          79         70         80
Atalanta        70         53         65
YoungBoys       26         40         11
Villarreal      25         37         44 

Group G      
Salzburg        62         38         37
Sevilla         60         62         66 
Wolfsburg       52         57         53 
Lille           26         43         44 

Group H      
Juventus        92         84         76
Chelsea         90         94         89 
Zenit           17         19         26 
Malmo            1          3          9

Barcelona had seriously cratered and Benfica and Salzburg have risen. So, at least we have a bit of movement here.
   335. spivey 2 Posted: September 30, 2021 at 10:57 AM (#6042538)
538 has Ajax as like the 5th best team in the world. I think that's overstating it, but they do seem very, very good this year. And have generally played top teams pretty competitively in Europe the last few years. I'd be tempted to throw a few bucks on them in Vegas.

Of course, the downside with a team like that is they don't have much margin for error. They can't fade an injury to someone like Antony the way City, Bayern, or Chelsea can to any of their wingers.

Salzburg also seems impressive - just from results, I've not really watched them play.
   336. bunyon Posted: September 30, 2021 at 11:16 AM (#6042541)
Barcelona had seriously cratered and Benfica and Salzburg have risen. So, at least we have a bit of movement here.

?

I think maybe you have some transposed lines? Or your conclusion is wrong.
   337. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 11:21 AM (#6042542)
Most recent column is first. Maybe that's not intuitive. I could have also made some other error I'm not seeing...

I just meant that, if your main interest is advancement from the group stage, the current expectation isn't that different from when the group stage started, except that Barca's odds have gone way down, while Benfica's and Salzburg's have gone way up.

You could point out that Sheriff's odds have also gone way up, but it's still pretty unlikely they'll qualify, so it probably doesn't matter.
   338. bunyon Posted: September 30, 2021 at 11:34 AM (#6042544)
No, it's clear. I just can't read. Sorry.
   339. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6042549)
Revised betting odds to lift trophy (change from pre-tourney in parens)
City         18      +1
PSG          17.5    -1.5
Bayern       16.5    +6
Chelsea      10      -0.5
Liverpool    10      +1.5
United        6.5     0
RealMadrid    3.75   -1.75
Juve          3.25   +0.5
Dortmund      2.5     0
Atleti        2.5    -1.25
Ajax          1.75   +1
Barcelona     1.25   -2.5
Inter         1.25   -0.25
Atalanta      1      -0.25
Sevilla       1      -0.5

Other 17      3.25   -1.25


Salzburg/Benfica are still being given very little chance to win. Probably about 0.25%-0.50% each once adjusting for vig.

Big movers are Bayern and Barca. All La Liga teams are down.
   340. The Marksist Posted: September 30, 2021 at 12:46 PM (#6042552)
Salzburg also seems impressive - just from results, I've not really watched them play


I'm not the finest observer, so others may have different opinions, but I watched most of the first two Salzburg group games and they seem ~decent. Not a lot of game control, and the attack seems very "get the ball to Adeyemi." Now, that's worked pretty well so far, but it's mostly resulted in penalties and not so many great chances from open play. They definitely press, but it's not stifling or anything. My guess is they'll be exposed by most top tier teams, which is exactly what you'd expect, but might have a puncher's chance of grabbing a result thanks to Adeyemi.
   341. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 01:13 PM (#6042556)
Rangers at Sparta Prague. Stands are filled with kids due to the sanctions for racist chants.

“Due to the punishment for the racist behaviour of some of our fans during the home match with Monaco, no adult fans are allowed in the stadium,” the club’s statement said.

“But there is an exception for organised children’s groups and we want to use it – we invite children to the Europa League for free. The invitation is valid for organised groups of children from 6 to 14 years of age who arrive at the stadium accompanied by an adult.

“At the same time, however, the rule applies that one adult must have a minimum of ten children and a maximum of 19. Admission is completely free for children and their companions.”


article is calling it a loophole, but it's not totally clear this isn't being supported by UEFA and I'm not sure it's really an abuse of the rules, or even should be. Crowd does seem fairly loud. I guess it depends on what you think the sanction is supposed to be exactly.
   342. spivey 2 Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6042569)
What I'm reading on reddit is that the kids are all booing Kamara (racially abused by a Sparta player last year) and potentially the rest of the black Rangers players. Not a good look. Not that UEFA will give a ####.

Edit: Kamara was racially abused by a Slavia Praha player, one of their rivals. Makes it even a bit weirder, but quite troubling.
   343. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#6042572)
What I'm reading on reddit is that the kids are all booing Kamara (racially abused by a Sparta player last year) and potentially the rest of the black Rangers players. Not a good look. Not that UEFA will give a ####.


Now now, I'm sure UEFA will issue a stern statement, no, a VERY stern statement.
   344. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:23 PM (#6042574)
Kamara now off with a second yellow. I didn't note the booing of black players generally, but wasn't paying close attention. They booed Kamara for sure, and that's a strong argument that the punishment really should be truly no fans.
   345. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 02:42 PM (#6042576)
Some minor upsets.

Rangers looked anemic for the second straight game, and lost, so are now in danger of going out at this stage. Real Sociedad only managed the home draw (though xG implies they dominated), so are no longer favored to advance over PSV and Monaco. Leicester lost on the road to Legia, and Napoli is about to lose, at home, to Spartak Moscow. Both are still probably favored to advance, but that's not exactly impressive.

Europa is always harder to predict than the Champions League, in part because the better the team seemingly the less eriously they take the competition. That doesn't really explain why Rangers have been so bad through two rounds though.

edit: there's a decent argument that Barca is now the favorite to win Europa, assuming they take it seriously if they drop down, which is always a question.

edit2: I see now that Napoli played most of the game down a man. (It's still going on by the way, in the 9th minute of stoppage time. Just ended.)
   346. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6042588)
This seems like a historically weak Europa field, mostly because each of the top 4 leagues only got two representatives rather than the normal three, and that there are just 8 groups rather than 12. It doesn't have an EPL top 6 team, and the of the two teams it does have Leicester looks weaker than it has in awhile. Betis is not a top 6 team in a weakened La Liga this year. Lazio is not a top 6 team in Italy. Only 1 German team made it to the group stage.

Aside from Napoli and West Ham, there might not be a team in the tournament in the top 25 in Europe. Sociedad, Leverkusen, Leicester have a shot, and Betis, Lyon, Eintracht, and Lazio are all ok.

The teams currently most likely to drop down from the CL are also not as good as in an average year, with the notable exception of Barcelona.
   347. The Marksist Posted: September 30, 2021 at 04:55 PM (#6042612)
Might just be me, but sure seems like a lot of red cards in the CL and UL this year. 16 Europa games today and seven red cards. Three reds last Europa round. Four reds in this weeks CL round (also 16 games), and six in the previous. I'm used to the Premier League, and I know English refs hate giving second yellows, but it still seems like more than usual.
   348. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: September 30, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#6042617)

CL
10 this year already in just 32 games!
21 in 2020-2021 (125 games)
20 in 2019-2020 (a few fewer games due to covid I think)
21 in 2018-2019 (125 games)

EPL
7 this year in 60 games
47 in 2020-2021 in 380 games
44 in 2019-2020 in 380 games
47 in 2018-2019 in 380 games.

The EPL used to have more (2015 and before), generally in the 60s each year, or 1 every 6 games or so. That's similar to what we've seem in the CL recently.

Sources: FBRef and myfootballfacts.com
   349. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 01, 2021 at 10:54 AM (#6042780)
Interesting conversation on the Gab/Juls podcast about whether a ref takes into account a near second yellow making a player vulnerable going forward, such that they might now get sent off on what would otherwise be a very borderline yellow (i.e., as if the player already has 1.5 yellows). Marcotti appears to give very little weight to this and Robson gives a ton of weight. I think I'm somewhere in between. It's interesting how far apart they are on this view though.

Koeman took off Pique in the 33rd minute after a yellow plus a near second yellow. Marcotti hated it but Robson thought it was justified/necessary.
   350. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 01, 2021 at 11:06 AM (#6042782)
Worst ref call of the week was this late penalty that allowed Sevilla to get the draw against Wolfsburg.
   351. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 02, 2021 at 11:39 AM (#6042973)
JWP sent off (straight red) in the 77th minute for a lunging late tackle. Less bad than the De Bruyne and AWB plays in the CL, so sometimes reds get given in the EPL too it seems.
   352. spivey 2 Posted: October 02, 2021 at 04:58 PM (#6043028)
A comfortable but not-dominant win for Atletico over Barcelona. A couple of things that really stuck out is how bad Barcelona is at marking and staying with runners, and really just how not athletic and/or fit they are. The second goal was pretty shocking how Lemar was able to just run by most of their team.

Barcelona used to be the fittest team in the world, and a modern, high press-possession style of football demands it. FWIW I think this is one of the big issues that Tottenham faces right now too over the last few years.
   353. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 03, 2021 at 10:45 AM (#6043212)
Brentford apparently looked very good for the first 20 minutes and took the lead. I started watching right after than and it's been all West Ham. They finally scored but they could have had a couple more, and there's still a little time left.
   354. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 03, 2021 at 10:58 AM (#6043213)
And then Brentford get a goal on their one chance of the second half, deep in stoppage time. They weren't the better team today, but they played well on the road and got the win. What a story they've been this year so far.
   355. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 03, 2021 at 12:29 PM (#6043227)
City is just not giving up good chances in the EPL again this year. We'll see if they can continue to stifle Liverpool for another half, but they've looked ridiculously good now for the last 2.5 games against what are supposed to be the 3 of the other 4 best teams in the world (one in the CL). If they can just figure out how to put the ball in the net they'd be unbeatable playing like this.
   356. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 03, 2021 at 01:04 PM (#6043234)
Milner should be off for a second yellow. so that's a one maybe they would have given in the CL.

It's been a much more competitive second half.
   357. Mefisto Posted: October 03, 2021 at 02:52 PM (#6043247)
That was a great game. And yes, Milner should have been sent off.
   358. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 04, 2021 at 02:07 PM (#6043533)
Pep, Di Maria, among others, named in the Pandora Papers.
   359. The Marksist Posted: October 05, 2021 at 11:49 AM (#6043686)
The Milner non-yellow is about as standard a Premier League non-call as you'll ever see. That's a first yellow all day, but not often a second yellow. Not a great system, but c'est la vie.

As a Liverpool fan, I'm both perfectly happy with the draw and disappointed that, for the second game in a row, we gave up two equalizers. And the Fabinho miss hurts, too. But if this is the level of these two teams, I'm pretty optimistic that Liverpool has a chance to win the league. Need to hammer the bad teams and beat the mid-table, obviously, but could be fun!
   360. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 05, 2021 at 12:50 PM (#6043709)
The Milner non-yellow is about as standard a Premier League non-call as you'll ever see. That's a first yellow all day, but not often a second yellow. Not a great system, but c'est la vie.
I actually don't think this is right. If I remember correctly (and admittedly I might not), Milner stopped a counterattack with a professional foul that had no hope of getting the ball, and brought the player down in the process. That's something you almost never see by someone already on a yellow, because it's usually a guaranteed yellow (second yellow or no).

Perhaps we are talking about two different fouls, because I read an article saying that another incident as well that could/should have been a second yellow on Milner. I don't remember seeing that one at all, but I wasn't paying super close attention.

edit: Play is here.
   361. The Marksist Posted: October 05, 2021 at 12:58 PM (#6043713)
Maybe you're right, Bea! It's definitely an auto yellow in most situations, though I wasn't shocked he wasn't sent off.

I think the one the article is talking about is the non-call on the edge of the box on Foden.
   362. jmurph Posted: October 06, 2021 at 09:59 AM (#6043954)
Maybe you're right, Bea! It's definitely an auto yellow in most situations, though I wasn't shocked he wasn't sent off.

I think the one the article is talking about is the non-call on the edge of the box on Foden.

I think the larger point is he committed a minimum of two yellow-worthy fouls after receiving his first yellow, and yet remained on the field.
   363. spivey 2 Posted: October 06, 2021 at 10:08 AM (#6043956)
I think that's often a second yellow. Yes, maybe not as often as a first, but I watched the game with 2 Pool fans and they both thought Milner should have gotten yellow there. It was a cynical foul where he clearly didn't try to play the ball at all, and imo it was clear in the replay he could have moved his leg and intentionally left it there for the trip.

Milner was on toast the entire first half as well, and it was a poor decision by Klopp to leave Milner in there in the second half imo where you knew he was going to likely be in a few sketchy defensive situations where he would be at risk of getting a card. I think he should have gone to Gomez at half-time. The game was fun, but the refs really bailed Klopp and Milner out there, imo.
   364. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 06, 2021 at 01:58 PM (#6044011)
Saudia Arabia apparently is now likely to be taking over Newcastle after all, due only to a reversal on the tv ban silliness.

Oh well, another team to root against.
   365. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 03:12 PM (#6044521)
Newcastle deal seems to be done now.

Newcastle's odds of survival just went way up. Betting odds has them as even now with Palace, with significantly less chance of being relegated than Burnley and Watford and of course Norwich.
   366. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 04:41 PM (#6044553)
Really fun game between France and Belgium. Could have gone either way, but France's quality won out in the end.

Best two teams in Europe right now, in my opinion, will face off in the Nations League final. Only other team in the world as good or better right now is Brazil. Could be another fun one.

(I think England and Germany have potential, but will need to play up to their ability to be as good as the top two. Italy, Belgium, and Portugal seem a step behind France and Spain right now. Also, if France ever really plays up to their ability maybe no one can match them.)
   367. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:49 PM (#6044612)
BIG shout for DOGSO 20 seconds into US-Jamaica. Grenadian ref working his first WCQ calls it yellow, Clattenburg on the broadcast says it should be red. Didn’t realize there was no VAR in CONCACAF qualifiers.
   368. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:15 PM (#6044617)
US announcers love to complain about the bad reffing in Concacaf, and to be fair it is bad, but Grenada is not exactly a big place (110,000 people). If the priority is to have almost every country in the region represented in the overall corps of officials, we are going to end up with a lot of lower quality refs.

Should we change priorities and only take the best refs from the region, probably meaning half from the US, another third from Mexico, and a few others scattered about? Maybe, but if that's what the announcers believe, they should be complaining about the system for selecting refs, not the refs themselves.
   369. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:19 PM (#6044620)
ANOTHER ONE! This one I think is a bad call on the foul, I thought the player made a good challenge but if he calls it a foul it’s gotta be red.
   370. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:20 PM (#6044621)
Heh. Another one. I didn't actually see the first play, but this one is probably a red a good portion of the time, but definitely not always.
   371. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:25 PM (#6044624)
Announcer saying that Concacaf "can't find the resources" to have better refs. I just don't think resources has much of anything to do with it.
   372. Mefisto Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:30 PM (#6044630)
I used to feel sorry for Newcastle because they were stuck with Ashley. Now I feel no compunction at all about rooting for them to lose every game.
   373. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:36 PM (#6044636)
The lack of VAR is nonsense. The CONCACAF argument that some nations don’t have the resources is ridiculous. CONCACAF certainly has the resources to cover it. I don’t like replay but man, those kinds of plays are the ones it’s ideal for.
   374. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:40 PM (#6044643)
Oh they meant "resources" for VAR not on-field refs. That makes a bit more sense.
   375. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6044651)
Great counter by the US. Nice run by Arriola who has run his ass off already to draw defenders and open space for Dest who put in a great ball and an easy header for Pepi.
   376. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 09:13 PM (#6044660)
Happy that the USMNT is winning this one, but in reality this is probably the very easiest game out of all 14 this round. Jamaica has not been playing good soccer and El Salvador has been surprisingly decent. The other teams in the round (Costa Rica, Honduras, and Panama) are all very probably just better than Jamaica right now, and this game is at home.

edit: the next game, at Panama, is a big one. A draw is fine but a loss hurts quite a bit, especially if Panama ends up winning today.
   377. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: October 07, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6044669)
Yeah it may be three points they expected but it’s not dropping points which obviously they did all too much four years ago. If you figure 21 points is the magic number they will need 13 in their next 10 games. 2-4-4 is very reasonable. This is April baseball right now, you can’t win the group but you can lose it which is what they did four years ago. They had four points after four games last time.
   378. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 10:21 PM (#6044682)
Three big chances by Canada, but no goals yet. This team has quality.

edit: spoke too soon!
   379. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 10:27 PM (#6044684)
I only saw half the second part of the first half (right after the Mexico goal), but for the part I saw Canada was by far the better team. In Mexico, even.
   380. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 07, 2021 at 10:56 PM (#6044693)
Stay classy, Mexico fans. ####. Still a lot of time left in this one, so this could rear its head again.
   381. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 09, 2021 at 01:16 PM (#6044988)
Scotland hasn't looked very good today at home, but they've also had some pretty bad luck. Two set piece goals for Israel were poorly defended, and a penalty for Scotland was saved. Now a goal called back for a bad call on a high boot. But given by VAR! So 2-2 now. It's been a pretty fun game, though not particularly well played.
   382. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 09, 2021 at 02:02 PM (#6044993)
Scotland completed the comeback win in extra time. Much better second half in a game they should always be winning, and couldn't afford to lose at home.

The good news now is that if they can take care of the Faroes and Andorra (both away), then they'll get the playoff spot.

In the other big game of the day of the morning, Ukraine beat Finland on the road, and now Ukraine is probably now favored for the playoff spot in their group. Finland is not out of it. They need to beat Bosnia and have Ukraine and Bosnia split their games. Difficult but not impossible.
   383. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 09, 2021 at 03:25 PM (#6045015)
Second yellow for a Norther Irish player in the 37th minute. For time wasting! Switzerland handed a gift in a game they really should win now at home. Still 0-0.
   384. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 09, 2021 at 04:45 PM (#6045032)
Huge, late win by Albania away to Hungary. The Albania/Poland game in a few days basically decides who goes to the playoff.
   385. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 03:28 PM (#6045133)
3 total shots in 43 minutes so far in this Nations League final. Spain has all the possession but not much to show for it. It's been a bit of a slog.

The teams have quality but are not particularly adventurous, today anyway.
   386. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:06 PM (#6045138)
Even though you'd probably say France have (significantly?) more talent than Spain, Spain's ability to possess the ball is just at another level. They also press well, and Enrique just generally has them playing as a pretty cohesive unit more akin to a club team than many NTs.
   387. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:11 PM (#6045140)
End to end action there. France had a great counterattack and a terribly missed yellow card that Pogba played through, that led to a nifty shot off the crossbar. A minute later and a nice linebreaking pass from Spain to an attacker that Upamecano misplayed and Spain goes up. Then Benzema goes hero ball with a bender from the corner of the box and it goes in. Game on boyos!
   388. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6045142)
France's attack is growing into the game. Both teams going for the win. Feels like there's another goal in this one with 20 minutes to go.
   389. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#6045144)
4 shots total through 60 minutes. 9 in the next 15 minutes, and two goals.

I'd almost be in favor of shortening soccer games to an hour or less if teams aren't really going to go for it for the first half. So many games start out very slow.

edit: and a third goal now. France has come from behind to lead 2-1. Very tight offside call goes France's way.
   390. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#6045145)
Does amuse me that Laporte plays for Spain.

France has been pressing better and neither team seems incredibly comfortable playing through midfield, but both are trying. Some of the best chances are happening on the counter.
   391. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:25 PM (#6045146)
Mbappe is a fast man. I though the got too cute with the stepover there, but shows what I know, he seemed to flat foot the goalkeeper and slide it by. He was offside though, so this should come back with VAR.
   392. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6045147)
Hate that rule. Defender slightly touched the ball, which negates Mbappe's offside. Nevermind that Garcia only touched it because he wasn't sure if Mbappe was offside and only Mbappe could get the ball for France.
   393. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:31 PM (#6045148)
France's athleticism across the pitch is absolutely astounding and has caused some real problems for Spain the last 30 minutes, though.
   394. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:34 PM (#6045149)
Was that why he was onside? Looked like a deflection, so if so, I very much disagree with the call. He was inches from being on/off on the original pass anyway.
   395. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#6045150)
At least Belgium will finally not be ranked #1 after these semis and finals. Brazil and France are clearly a full step better than them right now, and a number of other teams are at least as good, and probably better (like Spain).
   396. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:38 PM (#6045151)
France NT Pogba is clearly more than just having Kante carry his water for him, because he's been great this second half.
   397. spivey 2 Posted: October 10, 2021 at 04:40 PM (#6045152)
That was a hell of a second half. Don't love how the winner happened, but France was probably the better team in the second half. Though both teams really had a good number of opportunities.
   398. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 06:31 PM (#6045167)
This is a very heavily rotated USMNT side. Makes some sense, since they played a game 3 days ago and will play another one in 3 more days. A draw with this lineup away would be fine. A win would be gravy.
   399. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 07:56 PM (#6045173)
7 minutes of stoppage time. There were 7 minutes of stopped play alone in the last 10 minutes.

Not that it matters much. The US doesn't look like they're about to score anytime soon.
   400. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: October 10, 2021 at 08:01 PM (#6045176)
The USMNT had absolutely no ideas on offense all game long. They need their starting playmakers in there or they are hopeless, apparently.
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