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Friday, June 07, 2019

OT Soccer Thread - Baldrick Reports Live

Sum-sum-summertime thread.

June 7 (that’s today!) - Women’s World Cup.  BTF correspondent Baldrick is on the scene (link takes you to his preview of the tournament)
June 14 - Copa America begins (no Neymar)
June 15 - Gold Cup begins
June 18 - US first Gold Cup game
June 21 - Africa Cup of Nations begins
July 7 - Women’s World Cup Final/Copa America Final/Gold Cup Final - Can we get some discussion about the ridiculousness of the WWC being just one of a series of finals on the same day? Of note is that the Copa America final is the exact same time as the WWC final. 
July 19 - Africa Cup of Nations final

Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: June 07, 2019 at 12:22 PM | 1414 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, soccer

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   801. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5858367)
Has to be a penalty. Any touch there on her leg ruins the shot, which is exactly what happened.
   802. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5858368)
Yeah, I think that's a pen though it looked offside in the build up.
   803. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5858369)
I guess they aren't looking at if it was offside?
   804. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5858370)
I didn't see anything close to offside in the buildup. They're supposed to review that too though of course.

Saved anyway. Oh well.

edit: the goal scorer [edit: shooter. heh.] was in offside position when the original pass was made maybe, but she was way on the other side of the field. By the time the ball was passes to her she was behind the ball
   805. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5858371)
Aw, hell naw.
   806. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:41 PM (#5858372)
Good stop by Naeher, but you have to take a better PK in that situation. The US just dodged a bullet.
   807. SteveF Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:43 PM (#5858373)
Absolutely should be a second yellow.
   808. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:43 PM (#5858374)
England and pk... they should not let her take any more.

Bad tackle for the second yellow...
   809. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5858375)
Definitely a yellow. Ah well.
   810. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5858376)
Oh well, can't complain about that second yellow. It seems extremely rare for a women's soccer player to get a red.
   811. Mefisto Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5858377)
Man, the US has had the better of this game, but they could easily be trailing at this point.
   812. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:51 PM (#5858380)
Foul throw in!
   813. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5858381)
As someone who thinks it is absurd Alyssa Naeher is the unquestioned starter for the USWNT, I have to admit she's been absolutely huge this game between her diving save and stopping that (not that well-taken) pk.
   814. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 02, 2019 at 04:55 PM (#5858382)
England undone by a PK is just so cliche.
   815. Mefisto Posted: July 02, 2019 at 05:01 PM (#5858383)
At this point I have to think that England have a collective psychosis about PKs.
   816. Egregious Hidden Genitals (CoB). Posted: July 02, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5858395)
Really tight. Really really tight, but just offside.


Yeah, it was the right call, that somehow felt wrong ... such a nice heeled flick on and cool finish.
   817. spivey Posted: July 02, 2019 at 05:35 PM (#5858396)
xG had it as even before the PK and obviously not counting the razor thin offsides.

I can't admit to knowing that much about women's soccer, but it seems like the US should have way more talent than England. How many shots did the US have after their 2nd goal? It seems like they went into a shell.
   818. Mefisto Posted: July 02, 2019 at 06:08 PM (#5858412)
xG: US .8 Eng .9 (+pen). And as spivey says, that doesn't count the offside and Naeher's good save. Had England won that game, the US would have had no complaints.
   819. Baldrick Posted: July 02, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5858448)
Two games in a row the US has sat on a lead rather than trying to open up and score more. It's one of those cases where xG tells us a lot, but also needs context to provide a full picture.

If things had gone differently, England could absolutely have won. But also, if they had scored more goals the US would have done different things. So it's hard to really say

Sticking with Daly for so long was a huge mistake from Neville. He got the initial XI wrong and refused to fix it. And I say that as an enormous Rachel Daly fan.
   820. Mefisto Posted: July 02, 2019 at 08:41 PM (#5858449)
Agree on Daly. I didn't watch her defense much, but she contributed very little offensively and that's what England needed.
   821. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 02, 2019 at 08:41 PM (#5858450)
Argentina fouling Brazil early and often. First yellow in the 9th minute on Tagliafico, well-earned.
   822. Baldrick Posted: July 02, 2019 at 08:44 PM (#5858451)
Also: getting knocked out because you got out-managed by Jill Ellis is a pretty rough way to go.
   823. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 02, 2019 at 08:44 PM (#5858452)
Two games in a row the US has sat on a lead rather than trying to open up and score more. It's one of those cases where xG tells us a lot, but also needs context to provide a full picture. If things had gone differently, England could absolutely have won. But also, if they had scored more goals the US would have done different things. So it's hard to really say
What we can say is that as a strategy in this game it backfired terribly, considering the razor-thin offside and the penalty. If the US is not going to open it up, then they damn well need to shut the other side down to make the strategy profitable.
   824. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:29 AM (#5858517)
I thought a goal kick needed to leave the penalty area but twice in the late going of the Gold Cup semi Ochoa’s goal kick only went outside the six yard box but still well inside the 18 and was played by a Mexican teammate.
   825. Baldrick Posted: July 03, 2019 at 03:01 AM (#5858528)
I thought a goal kick needed to leave the penalty area but twice in the late going of the Gold Cup semi Ochoa’s goal kick only went outside the six yard box but still well inside the 18 and was played by a Mexican teammate.

Rule change officially implemented at the start of June.
   826. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 03, 2019 at 07:20 AM (#5858532)
Any word on Rose LaVelle's injury? Gonna really suck if she misses the final, her nutmeg of that poor English defender was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.
   827. Baldrick Posted: July 03, 2019 at 07:57 AM (#5858533)
Any word on Rose LaVelle's injury? Gonna really suck if she misses the final, her nutmeg of that poor English defender was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

In the mixed zone last night she said "it's fine" and that she expected to be able to play in the final. She was walking around pretty normally and seemed to be in her normal good mood.

It's a hamstring and she's got a bad history there, so I wouldn't guarantee it. But it seemed like a minor strain, not a huge concern.
   828. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 03, 2019 at 08:01 AM (#5858534)
Good to hear! I've been crazy impressed by her this WC and plan on getting her jersey the next time a new kit comes out (hopefully with a fourth star).

Btw, Baldrick, your coverage of the World Cup has been exemplary and thank you so much for it. But you'll never be as cool as whoever had the gumption to place their laptop atop a rope stanchion. (I'm one of the random people on twitter who've started following you since the WC started, the one with the Darth Vader helmet and Yankees Suck t-shirt)
   829. spivey Posted: July 03, 2019 at 09:20 AM (#5858540)
Leicester is looking like they may be bringing in Ayoze Perez and Tielemanns on a permanent deal. If they're able to keep the band otherwise together, or even if they sell Maguire and re-invest on a top CB, I feel like they could potentially push for a top 4 spot. Maddison has been very good, Vardy is always good for goals, and Perez really impressed me the times I saw Newcastle play. I think he's a CL level talent.

They have Chilwell, Maguire, Ndidi too. Just a lot of talent up and down the roster for a mid-table team.
   830. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 10:05 AM (#5858547)
Rumor is that United have bid 70 million pounds for Maguire.
   831. spivey Posted: July 03, 2019 at 10:16 AM (#5858556)
Which I think, rumor has it, Leicester declined. I don't get it. Is he that good? I don't watch Leicester play quite enough, but he's not *that* young, and Maguire doesn't seem in the tier of best CBs in the world, which is pretty much the tier you need to be in to justify wanting that much or more money.
   832. Baldrick Posted: July 03, 2019 at 10:53 AM (#5858578)
My take on the US win last night: The US beat England because Jill Ellis got her tactics right.

I'm as surprised as anyone.
   833. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5858585)
@831: Seems crazy money -- same price as VVD for a player who's not as good. Leicester seem to know that United's in big trouble and they can extort money. You could actually make a good team by combining Leicester and United, but there would be fewer player trades if you took from United and gave to Leicester than doing it the other way.

@832: I'm not convinced we can conclude that Ellis "got the tactics right" when the US had fewer xG (albeit close enough that calling it a tie would be fair) plus gave up a pen. This while having significantly better personnel at most positions. And if the stories about Rapinoe being injured are true, then the shift to Press (like the switch to Morgan Brian in 2015) was forced, not something for which Ellis can take much credit. Neville's starting lineup was possibly wrong, though I can understand the idea of being defensive at first and attack later. But he was much too late in bringing on his creative players and that may have cost England.
   834. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5858592)
I have no idea why Aldeweireld isn't a Man U player like yesterday. Maguire is all right but it seems Ole is just determined to buy British players this summer. I don't know why Leicester aren't biting their hand off if the 70 million is true. Why not Ake or Lascelles?
   835. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:47 AM (#5858593)
I would conclude that Ellis got her tactics wrong in the second half but ended up getting away with it. The other team "not getting it done" when they had a goal on a wide open chance called back due to offside by inches, and a penalty not converted on another golden chance, neither of which counted towards the xG, but probably both of which would have been .6 xG or more chances, meaning that without the foul on the play that led to the penalty and the offside call, England would have drawn level if the game had played out the same way 85% of the time (assuming the US didn't score themselves, the chances of which were greatly reduced considering the strategy).

Yeah sure the US could've opened it up again if England drew level, but that's a terrible way to play when you have the superior talent.
   836. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 03, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5858598)
L'Equipe had some details about the Ndombele transfer. Evidently Juventus had agreed personal terms with Ndombele but didn't get far with Lyon on a fee and they gave up and targeted Rabiot. Man U wanted Ndombele to wait for them to resolve Pogba's situation which, I guess, he wasn't willing to do. They also report that Spurs are working on getting Lo Celso from Real Betis though Sky is reporting those talks are currently on hold.
   837. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5858604)
it seems Ole is just determined to buy British players this summer.


This seems to be a thing with quite a few former United players. I hardly think "good young British players" constitutes an underexploited talent pool. I suspect there's something quite a bit uglier going on there.
   838. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5858607)
One more thought about Neville's tactics. That goal from Press came because Lucy Bronze, of all people, lost her mark. It's pretty hard for any coach to account for that.
   839. aberg Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5858612)
Otamendi was so horrible for Argentina last night. He was way out of position on the first goal, then flopped his way out of the play leading directly to the second. He also aimlessly dribbled over the halfway line a few times and passed the ball directly away to Brazil. He and Foyth seemed constantly confused about where the other was supposed to be. Messi played pretty well, but the Argentina defense, which everyone knew wasn't good, was even worse than advertised.
   840. aberg Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5858613)
This seems to be a thing with quite a few former United players. I hardly think "good young British players" constitutes an underexploited talent pool. I suspect there's something quite a bit uglier going on there.


It might have to do with who is good and available, too. Even if they're expensive, if United sign Sancho, Maguire, and Maddison, that will immediately set them up with a favorable foundation. Fair point by Shooty about some of the nearby alternatives.
   841. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5858621)
I'm sure there are good young players available from outside Britain too. Thing is, several former United players have been quoted as favoring specifically British players. These aren't the ones who need to worry about FFP or anything like that, so it makes me wonder about motives.
   842. J. Sosa Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5858623)
Re: Shooty

They turned down 70 MP because they know they can get at least 75 or 80 out of United.

Re: Foxes/Maguire replacement

Really well run club. They already have a Maguire replacement on the books, they just gave him a year to get acclimated. They are going to be really dangerous. One of the better midfields in the league and one of the best fullback pairings.

Re: Lo Celso

I think that ends up happening. If so, with or without Eriksen they are going to be excellent.
   843. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5858626)
   844. Egregious Hidden Genitals (CoB). Posted: July 03, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5858649)
I'm sure there are good young players available from outside Britain too. Thing is, several former United players have been quoted as favoring specifically British players. These aren't the ones who need to worry about FFP or anything like that, so it makes me wonder about motives.


Brexit?

I haven't played any of the recent versions of FM that include the scenario, but (was it here or in the game thread) I read that the "hard Brexit scenario" is about as fun as lighting yourself on fire and throwing yourself down a flight of stairs ...
   845. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5858651)
Maybe. That could be a prudential motive or it could be something less reputable.
   846. DCA Posted: July 03, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5858668)
something less reputable.

I'm not following the hints.
   847. Topher Posted: July 03, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5858670)
Big +1 to enjoying Baldrick's pieces. And I do very much agree with this:

But she successfully out-managed Neville last night and Corinne Diacre a few days earlier.


That said, I thought Ellis blew it when they went five in the back in the 70th(?) minute. I noticed it in the 70th minute and Aly Wagner pointed it out in the 72nd so I assume it wasn't in play for much before then.

I understand the motivation since the central defense had been pierced a few times. And, hey, it worked. I might be wrong in this criticism. But from my vantage point, when the team shifted from a 4-3-3 to a 5-2-3*** it completely opened up the middle. Duh. But England really seemed to have the better of it and helping to patch up the back line seemed to cause more harm that good. The clock was on the US side and they probably would have avoided conceding if England played with 11 up to the end. But I was very nervous up to the point where Bright was booked a second time. During that stretch between moving to 5 in the back and the red card, the US really had no attack because they couldn't maintain possession and they appeared to be in full park the bus mentality.

*** Maybe the formation wasn't supposed to be 5-2-3, but it seemed like Heath and Press were still mostly playing as advanced wings and Morgan was the still the center forward. It seemed like the switch as mostly just in Ertz's positioning and the rest of the team more or less stayed the same.

I'm definitely not opposed to moving Ertz to the backline at the end of the game. But I think have to sub off a forward if you're going down that path. Since Press is better at tracking back, it seems like the obvious move would have been to replace Heath with either Morgan Brian or Ally Long.
   848. spivey Posted: July 03, 2019 at 03:04 PM (#5858674)
Speaking of statsbomb, Ceballos' profile there looks incredible as well, better than Lo Celso. He was also the best player in the U-21 WC, from what I read. Eriksen's ability with the final pass does seem a step above all 3 of these guys, though. Seems like a perfect midfield would be Ceballos, N'Dombele, and Eriksen. I think we could finish above Liverpool with that midfield and a competent RB. Getting Ceballos and keeping Eriksen doesn't seem very likely, though.
   849. Topher Posted: July 03, 2019 at 03:12 PM (#5858680)
Vardy is always good for goals


Yes, but he's 32. I'd be seriously nervous about him losing a step. And I thought they did good business with the Iheanacho deal but thus far it hasn't panned out. Maybe Ayoze Perez can be the replacement if Vardy does slow down.

I have no idea why Aldeweireld isn't a Man U player like yesterday.


Everything about the Alderweireld situation baffles me. I don't get why Spurs didn't extend him -- yes I know it was going to "break" the wage structure but that seemed silly to me for a player that was so good for them. And I don't get why there aren't a dozen teams lining up to pay the £25M release clause. Yeah, he's 30. But invest the £35M that you'd have to pay on top of the £25M to get an equivalent talent that is in his early 20s and then use that money to sign a new defender when Alderweireld becomes too old.

Brexit?


I don't think this is getting enough attention. I think the random article that pops up every couple of months about how the English teams might not be able to play in the Champions league are silly. But for teams that are worth hundreds of millions of pounds, if not more, it seems like prudent risk management to attempt to recruit players that you know will be safe for playing in domestic competitions. Don't go crazy and only sign British youngsters but I would be putting my thumb on the scale when comparing relatively equal British and non-British players.

My full expectation is that the Football Manager hard Brexit scenario won't play out. But if I were Arsenal (runs off to wiki to scan at the flags for the first team), I'd be nervous that I only see four English players and none of them are top talent. I know that Iwobi is English as well and plays for Nigeria. Not sure if there were others that would qualify as British players if hard Brexit came to be.
   850. Egregious Hidden Genitals (CoB). Posted: July 03, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5858700)
I'm not following the hints.


Me neither.

Everything about the Alderweireld situation baffles me. I don't get why Spurs didn't extend him -- yes I know it was going to "break" the wage structure but that seemed silly to me for a player that was so good for them.


And still *is* that good for them, and fits what Poch's system needs, very good BPD's. And neither Sanchez or Foyth seems ready to step into those shoes. And the other thing is N'dombeleNDombeleNdombele is supposed to be on nearly Kane wages now. So "wage structure" can kiss my ass. Who really knows about these things, but what I read was Toby asking for about 150,000 a week. A club like Spurs can and SHOULD afford that. Yes, by the end, he will likely be the dude playing in cups and being a mentor, but the window is NOW, and sometimes, going all in is the right move.





   851. Egregious Hidden Genitals (CoB). Posted: July 03, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5858702)

I don't think this is getting enough attention. I think the random article that pops up every couple of months about how the English teams might not be able to play in the Champions league are silly. But for teams that are worth hundreds of millions of pounds, if not more, it seems like prudent risk management to attempt to recruit players that you know will be safe for playing in domestic competitions. Don't go crazy and only sign British youngsters but I would be putting my thumb on the scale when comparing relatively equal British and non-British players.


+1

As they say on the dump truck tubes ...
   852. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5858705)
Brief conversation at halftime (BBC?) about people claiming the goals should be reduced in size for the women's game. That seems like a very bad idea. On the other hand, I'd love to see the goals increased in size for the men's game.
   853. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 04:04 PM (#5858708)
Sweden has looked the far better team today. That likely means that neither of these teams is anywhere near as good as the US.
   854. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 04:38 PM (#5858719)
Well Netherlands has had a few moments of their own now, and some of Sweden's best chances didn't result in a shot. But still I'd give the nod to Sweden. USA 3-0 in the final (regardless of who they play).
   855. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 03, 2019 at 04:44 PM (#5858724)
I'd agree with that, but I think if this match goes to extra time it'll probably be worse than 3-0.
   856. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 03, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5858729)
I thought Sweden should have had a clear penalty. VAR just seems so random. And, yeah, I think going through Spain-France-England, the US has already faced their toughest competition.
   857. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5858730)
BBC showed after the 90 that the foul on the Swedish forward on the left side of the box was a clear penalty. The Swedish player got right back up though and VAR didn't pause the game. Live it looked like it could easily have been a penalty, and reviews confirmed the Netherlands defender stabbed wildly at the ball, got none of it, and took out the Swedish player's leg. It's possible the Swedish player actually thought the defender got the ball, but she clearly didn't.

VAR, what is it good for.
   858. Meatwad Posted: July 03, 2019 at 05:08 PM (#5858732)
Watching this on a spanish language channel is so much more fun.
   859. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 05:09 PM (#5858733)
Goal Netherlands. Just a minute earlier Blackstenius timed her run on the break so the through ball would have been made just before she crossed the halfway line, but the obvious ball wasn't played. She was not happy.

edit: this wasn't a thread the needle situation either. Any ball played through the line or over the top could have led to a one-on-one, since Blackstenius had all the momentum already over the defender guarding her. Badly missed opportunity.
   860. Meatwad Posted: July 03, 2019 at 05:15 PM (#5858736)
Im surprised they only added 1 minute and didnt let that last attack playout
   861. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 06:36 PM (#5858746)
I'm not following the hints.


There's a long-standing and not very nice English tradition within soccer of ethnocentrism within soccer. I'm suspicious that this is what's going on here, rather than former players making sophisticated judgments about the likelihood of Brexit.

That said, Brexit should be a legitimate concern for management.
   862. Mefisto Posted: July 03, 2019 at 06:37 PM (#5858748)
Adding to the chorus, I can't see the Netherlands beating the US or even offering much of a game.
   863. Moeball Posted: July 03, 2019 at 07:46 PM (#5858763)
I suppose this is true more often than not - although team USA has played well and deserves to be the favorite - they have also got some lucky breaks along the way. Although they won against Spain, France, and England, which is a pretty tough gauntlet to run through, they haven't exactly dominated and I could see how they could have lost those games with a break or call or two going against them. I guess you have to be both lucky and good to win a World Cup.
   864. Howie Menckel Posted: July 03, 2019 at 08:01 PM (#5858766)
looking to learn here:

some BBTF debate this year about baseball and bat-flipping, and whether it's celebration or showing up the opponent.

qe have some Europeans here - and many more who understand European sporting culture from watching so much soccer.

when Alex Morgan pantomimed sipping English tea after her goal, is that considered objectionable? wondering about what does - and doesn't - draw criticism on the world soccer stage in terms of reacting to a big goal.
   865. Egregious Hidden Genitals (CoB). Posted: July 03, 2019 at 08:11 PM (#5858769)

when Alex Morgan pantomimed sipping English tea after her goal,


Is that what that was?

My roommate and I looked at each other and said, WTF? was that?

Was she sipping champagne to brag they were going into the final?

Wine because they were in France?

We were baffled.

2/10 on the celebration scale.
   866. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 08:19 PM (#5858773)
According to xG, Sweden didn't get any high percentage shots off. I was wondering a little about that because I couldn't really remember any. They certainly had their chances to do so, though.
   867. Howie Menckel Posted: July 03, 2019 at 08:44 PM (#5858786)
"I wanted to keep it interesting," [Morgan] told reporters. "I know Megan Rapinoe has the best celebration. I had to try and step up this game. I feel like this team has had so much thrown at them and us. I feel like we didn't take an easy route through this tournament and 'that's the tea.'

"Wah, wah, wah. I mean, we’re at the World Cup, what do you want us to do?” Rapinoe told reporters Wednesday. “This is the biggest stage, the biggest moment. I don’t think anyone truly believes that we disrespect the game or disrespect our opponents. We have the utmost respect for England and every team that we’ve faced and every team that we will face forever and ever. That’s just part of the DNA of the squad. With that said, we work hard, we like to play hard and we like to have fun and enjoy ourselves, and these are the absolute biggest moments to do that.”
   868. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 08:54 PM (#5858791)
This celebration stuff is really uninteresting. The players seem to like it though, as evidenced by the above.

In the game right now, Peru already has done more against Chile than they did in the entire game against Uruguay or Colombia. 3 big chances and now up 1-0 on a well struck first-time finish.
   869. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 09:12 PM (#5858803)
I posted about the CHICKEN MAN INCIDENT in the Uruguay/Chile game, where supposedly the teams were arguing for minutes about which side would get the ball on the restart. I read recently that Suarez was also arguing with the ref that Chile's Gonzalo Jara should get a yellow for taking out the CHICKEN MAN with a vicious trip.

This, was, of course, the same game in which Suarez called for a penalty kick for a handball by Chile's goalkeeper.

Who's laughing now though? Peru is up 2-0 on Chile.
   870. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 09:27 PM (#5858811)
If Peru holds on to face Brazil, it will be only the third time they've ever made the finals at the Copa. They won the other two... one in 1975 when there was no fixed venue (all home/away I think except the final tiebreaking game in Venezuela, after Peru and Colombia each won at home). The other time was when they hosted it way back in 1939, when there were only 5 teams competing, and not including Argentina, Brazil or Colombia.

edit: Peru has been better than ever in he last couple years, reaching their highest ELO in 2018 I think. Their second highest period was in 1975.
   871. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 09:43 PM (#5858817)
USMNT all over Jamaica early--three huge chances but haven't put one in.
   872. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5858822)
Considering how well the USMNT was playing, this weather delay is a stroke of very bad luck.
   873. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 03, 2019 at 10:23 PM (#5858825)
Bad mistake by the Chilean defender on the far side of the field played a Peruvian onside for an easy goal. 3-0 and Peru will face Brazil in the final. This wasn't just a fluke--Chile had some good moments but Peru had a lot of chances today and fully deserved the win.
   874. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: July 04, 2019 at 12:18 AM (#5858845)
PULISIC!!!!
   875. J. Sosa Posted: July 04, 2019 at 02:17 AM (#5858855)
Re: USWNT celebrations

Probably a minority view, but I really do not care for the Thailand/Tea type stuff. Petty, small, and ridiculous. Does someone like Morgan really need to be on the field scoring goals close to time for a second touchdown? Get off my lawn, etc etc. But I have never cared for that kind of stuff at any level, especially not when it is coming from people born on a triple against what many Thai players faced. Spare me the playing hard to respect your opponent nonsense that was rolled out.

It was just ugly, I haven’t liked the rush to defend it in some quarters of the media, and I do not care for the continued mocking of (justified) criticism by the team.

Maybe uninteresting to some (most?) but it has taken away from something I traditionally have enjoyed. YMMV.
   876. bunyon Posted: July 04, 2019 at 06:29 AM (#5858860)
Surprised by Chile’s loss but Peru just kicked their ass.

I missed the Argentina game walking through the desert. TV and the folks around us don’t seem too upset but are semi-obsessed with VAR and a should have been penalty.
   877. manchestermets Posted: July 04, 2019 at 07:12 AM (#5858862)
Where is this "random article that pops up every couple of months about how the English teams might not be able to play in the Champions league" popping up exactly? Given that UEFA and the EU are different organisations, and there are plenty of teams from outside the EU playing in the Champions League already, it seems to be something beyond "silly".

Also, re the tea drinking celebration thing, I've heard literally nobody over here complaining about it. The idea that anyone is upset is entirely a media creation.
   878. Scott Lange Posted: July 04, 2019 at 08:15 AM (#5858864)
Surely there's a distinction to between by the not-great wild celebrations of the later goals against Thailand, and the completely innocuous and totally fun tea cup celebration, right? One against a semi-pro team of far-less advantaged players in a double digit game; the other in a tight game against privileged players from a wealthy, trash talking country that used to colonize us?
   879. Baldrick Posted: July 04, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5858880)
Surely there's a distinction to between by the not-great wild celebrations of the later goals against Thailand, and the completely innocuous and totally fun tea cup celebration, right? One against a semi-pro team of far-less advantaged players in a double digit game; the other in a tight game against privileged players from a wealthy, trash talking country that used to colonize us?

It seems very clear to me that the 11th goal vs. Thailand in a group stage game that the US could have easily won with their D or E team is rather different than a go-ahead goal in the semifinal against one of the best teams in the world.

But this does not appear to be a distinction that many people care about, for reasons that confuse me greatly.
   880. manchestermets Posted: July 04, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5858884)
country that used to colonize us


It was weird at the baseball in London at the weekend to hear the same group singing The Star-spangled Banner immediately followed by God Save The Queen. Make your mind up guys.
   881. Mefisto Posted: July 04, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5858889)
I agree with 878 and 879. I didn't see any problem with Morgan sipping tea.
   882. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: July 04, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5858896)
877 is interesting to me because it jibes with my sense that this is more “a thing to talk about in the 24/7 news media” than something anyone gives a damn about. As noted in 879&879; it’s oretty different.

My biggest issue with it is that it was a lame celebration. Morgan should have been more creative.
   883. Scott Lange Posted: July 04, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5858899)
My biggest issue with it is that it was a lame celebration. Morgan should have been more creative.


I dunno; seemed creative to me. She's got like 5 seconds - can't really act out a whole Shakespeare play...
   884. nick swisher hygiene Posted: July 04, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5858901)
882—That’s not a contrast: Morgan / her social media team produced the celebration for social media....
   885. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 04, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5858902)
Looks like the Europa League is starting up again. La Florita of San Marino is taking on Engordanay of Romania (I think). La Florita has an ELO of 699 (according to clubelo.com). They've lost 14 of their last 15, with 1 draw, credited (for elo) matches going back almost a decade. 1 goal for and 47 against. They made it to the Europa league qualifiers by (I think?) finishing second in Campionato Sammarinese di Calcio, the top level Sammearinese amateur league.
   886. manchestermets Posted: July 04, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5858932)
La Florita of San Marino is taking on Engordanay of Romania (I think).


Engordanay are from Andorra, it's currently 2-1 to Engordanay in the second leg (3-1 on aggregate). Another San Marino team, Tre Fiori are playing KÍ of Romania, and currently losing 3-0 at home (8-1 on aggregate).

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/matches/#/rd/2001145/2
   887. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 04, 2019 at 04:04 PM (#5858937)
I managed to get the name spelling and the country of Engordany both wrong.

La Florita got a goal! But don't get too excited, because it was an OG by the other side. Doesn't mean their own players can't put in the net of course, because they also managed to do just that in the same game, knocking in an OG for Engordany's winner in the 84th minute to keep intact LA Florita's loss streak. 2-1 Engordany.

We'll get em next year.
   888. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: July 04, 2019 at 06:25 PM (#5858961)
I don't think the tea thing is really worth getting upset about. But it does make you look bad if you do it, and makes me think less of a player who celebrates in that manner.

To bring it back to baseball, to me there is always a difference between celebrating your own achievement, and taunting your opponent. I don't mind batflips or admiring your moon shot, or whatever, as long as it is an expression of joy at what you achieved. Once it becomes clearly an angry, in your face, type celebration, aimed at humiliating or showing up the opponent, then I think you are being an asshat.

I don't see any world, in which coming up with a celebration that is clearly and purposefully intended to make fun of your opponent in a stereotypical way, doesn't fall firmly in the second group. This wasn't about a celebration, it was a '#### you' to England (believe me, I am Scottish, I get the impulse). I think that is pretty bush league. Especially when you are the Yankees of your sport.
Again, not nearly worth getting up in arms about. But if you do it, it does make me think you are a bit of a ####.
   889. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 05, 2019 at 12:07 AM (#5859018)
Engordanay are from Andorra, it's currently 2-1 to Engordanay in the second leg (3-1 on aggregate). Another San Marino team, Tre Fiori are playing KÍ of Romania


You got Engordanay right, but KÍ are from the Faroe Islands.

What is making it look like all these teams are from Romania?
   890. manchestermets Posted: July 05, 2019 at 04:04 AM (#5859031)
What is making it look like all these teams are from Romania?


The country abbreviation said "FRO", which (with Romania already in my head from reading #885) made me assume that AuntBea just mixed up which San Marino team was playing a Romanian team. I thought it might stand for "Federation of Romania" or something like that. Although in retrospect, and looking at the other countries whose teams are playing in that round - in which Wales and Northern Ireland seem to be relative giants - Romania are far too relatively big.
   891. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 05, 2019 at 05:16 AM (#5859032)
The Andorra flag is very similar to the Romania flag.
   892. Mefisto Posted: July 06, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5859339)
I had only seen Sweden in the semi-final and thought England would win this game, but the Swedes are really taking it to England at the start.
   893. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 06, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5859343)
I guess that's a hand ball. The 'rules analyst' is consistently terrible and useless. At least the other guy Fox uses sounds like he knows the rules (even if he doesn't).
   894. Mefisto Posted: July 06, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5859353)
It probably was a handball, though I guess it depends on how one interprets the rule -- seemed pretty accidental to me, and the replay was hardly definitive on whether she even touched it with her arm (though I think she did).
   895. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 06, 2019 at 12:27 PM (#5859369)
Benin has reached the final 8 of the African Cup of Nations without winning a game.
   896. Mefisto Posted: July 06, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5859374)
England lose by inches again.
   897. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 06, 2019 at 01:07 PM (#5859376)
I think it touched her arm, and got cradled in her elbow for a bit, and that happened to bounce the ball out in a favorable manner for her. It was the right call, albeit incredibly frustrating for the English.
   898. Mefisto Posted: July 06, 2019 at 01:30 PM (#5859378)
I think that's right.
   899. Omineca Greg Posted: July 06, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5859383)
...a wealthy, trash talking country that used to colonize us?


I don't know if I'm interpreting it the way you meant exactly, but as a statement I just can't get on board with it.

Americans are the colonisers, not the colinisees. At first they were British (and other assorted hanger-ons) people starting colonies, and when they needed to throw off the shackles of K-Razy King George, they did so.

The people colonised in this equation are the Algonquin, the Cherokee, and others.

I'm French Canadian on my mother's side, so that lineage is going back before Canada was a country, and indeed before Québec was ceded to the English at the end of the Seven Years' War. And my feelings are...

My ancestors were never colonised by the French. They were the French.

My ancestors were never even really colonised by the British. Maybe given a different history, that might be something that you could say. But not the history the way it happened.

If I tried to commiserate with Gitxsan friends, "How 'bout these ####### colonisers, eh?" that would be a very, very...very, weird thing to do.

Mainly, I'm just wondering if that's the way Americans feel, "Remember those bad old days when we were colonised?". I mean, "Do you remember the bad old days when those Limey ############# treated us like dogshit?", hey, get in line with, what, 4 billion other people? Everyone's on the same page there.
   900. nick swisher hygiene Posted: July 06, 2019 at 02:38 PM (#5859394)
Yeah, Americans wanna be the gutsy underdog and the most powerful country in the world. They wanna be the rebel alliance AND the Empire. The whole ####### movie is about them.
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