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Sunday, November 13, 2022

OT - World Cup Thread

Group A - Sunday/Monday/Friday/Tuesday
Z-Qatar 0-0-3 -6
Z-Ecuador 1-1-1 +1
Y-Senegal 2-0-1 1
X-Netherlands
2-1-0 +4

Group B - Monday/Friday/Tuesday
X-England 2-1-0 +7
Z-Iran 1-0-2 -3
Y-UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!! (All games 2PM) 1-2-0 +1
Z-Wales 0-1-2 -5

Group C - Tuesday/Saturday/Wednesday
X-Argentina 2-0-1 +3
Z-Saudi Arabia 1-1-1-2
Z-Mexico 1-1-1 -1
Y-Poland 1-2-0 0

Group D - Tuesday/Saturday/Wednesday
X-France 2-0-1 +3
Y-Australia 2-0-1 -1
Z-Denmark 0-1-2 -2
Z-Tunisia 1-1-1 0

Group E - Wednesday/Sunday/Thursday
Y-Spain 1-1-1 +6
Z-Costa Rica 1-0-2 -8
Z-Germany 1-1-1 +1
X-Japan
2-0-1 +1

Group F - Wednesday/Sunday/Thursday
Z-Belgium 1-1-1 -1
Z-Canada 0-0-3 -5
X-Morocco 2-1-0 +3
Y-Croatia 1-2-0 +3

Group G - Thursday/Monday/Friday
Y-Brazil 2-0-0+3
Serbia 0-1-1 -2
Switzerland 1-0-1 0
Cameroon 0-1-1 -1

Group H - Thursday/Monday/Friday
Y-Portugal 2-0-0 +3
Ghana 1-0-1 0
Uruguay 0-1-1 -2
South Korea 0-1-1 -1


X won group
Y advanced
Z eliminated

Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: November 13, 2022 at 06:35 PM | 823 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, soccer

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   601. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 10:45 AM (#6108987)
Morocco has looked decent today, but that goal should never have happened. Big goalkeeper mistake on basically a prayer of a cross that was just blooped/floated in.
   602. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 10, 2022 at 11:11 AM (#6108988)
Yep, that was my first reaction. If you come for the ball, you have to get it (and it was in the air long enough that he really, really should have got it).
   603. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 11:19 AM (#6108990)
Morocco has had lower xG than their opponents in every game of the tournament so far, though in every case it's been close. They are ahead today.

Prior to today, 4 goals scored on about 3 xG, so nothing too special there. Only 1 goal against though, on about 4.5 xGA, so they have been very fortunate defensively.
   604. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 11:43 AM (#6108991)
Morocco better hang on now, considering they've taken off all of their good attacking players.
   605. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 11:53 AM (#6108992)
That would have been a yellow due to the studs, easily if it were the first one. A bit surprised he got a second yellow with that play the way the tournament has been called to date though.
   606. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 10, 2022 at 11:57 AM (#6108993)
Incredible.
   607. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 11:59 AM (#6108994)
Morocco has lived a charmed life this tournament, but have overall played very well compared to expectation coming in. Croatia has lived a charmed life but have not played particularly well compared to what was expected of them. Still, both are in the semis and get 2 more games.

Morocco somehow has now only given up a single goal (an own goal, no less...) despite 6 xGA. They continue the streak of being second best in xG in every single game of the tournament (though still all by small margins).

   608. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 10, 2022 at 12:00 PM (#6108995)
Morocco is like playing a 4X game. Just working their way up the map. Next conquest: France?
   609. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 12:01 PM (#6108996)
England & France's chances just jumped. Of course, that's what I thought about Portugal's chances before this weekend, so who knows.
   610. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:25 PM (#6109015)
The foul happened like 20 seconds before the goal, but Saka was clearly fouled and England were unbalanced as a result of it which is what lead to the shot, imo.

A shame.

Upamecano seems to have some serious trouble with Kane here in the early going.
   611. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:28 PM (#6109017)
I watched the Messi hand ball. It's a really tough situation for the referee because it didn't really affect anything, but that was clearly intentional, it has to be yellow, imo. The ref just didn't have the courage to send him off.
   612. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:29 PM (#6109018)
England has been brilliant in this game.
   613. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:34 PM (#6109019)
The foul happened like 20 seconds before the goal, but Saka was clearly fouled and England were unbalanced as a result of it which is what lead to the shot, imo.

Kane also got clearly fouled right outside the box, VAR checked for a penalty but since it was outside the box nothing can happen.

And what looked like another clear foul on Saka right outside the box goes ignored again.
   614. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:35 PM (#6109020)
I'm pretty sure Messi got his yellow for dissent after the handball incident, so there was no excuse not to give him the first yellow. That said, I can't see Messi mouthing off to the ref like that sitting on a yellow, so maybe it's all moot.

edit: oops that's wrong. I guess he already head the first yellow. That really is poor reffing then, for him and Fernandes too.
   615. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:41 PM (#6109024)
England have been very good. Going forward they've been dangerous which is not so surprising considering they are behind. They haven't allowed that to result in any counters playing with a lead though. If the game continues this way for another 50 minutes (a very big if...) England will likely level it.
   616. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:52 PM (#6109025)
England didn't do much useful in the last 15 minutes of the half, so I'm guessing they don't wait too long in the second half before mixing it up.
   617. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:53 PM (#6109026)
Kane also got clearly fouled right outside the box, VAR checked for a penalty but since it was outside the box nothing can happen.

There is initial contact outside the box, but contact of the kick to the leg that actually sends him down happens in the box. Clear penalty imo.
   618. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:55 PM (#6109027)
I managed not to make it home in time for the goal. What I have seen, though, is (1) just a lot of fabulous football, which hasn't always been the case in tourney; and (2) England dominating, though that's probably because they are having to push to catch up.

I continue to be impressed by Saka, who has been Arsenal's most exciting player this season. If he stays healthy, that guy's got big things on the horizon.
   619. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 10, 2022 at 02:59 PM (#6109029)
I continue to be impressed by Saka

Imagine how good he would be, if refs called obvious fouls committed against him!
   620. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:08 PM (#6109032)
Lloris is going full goblin mode.
   621. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:12 PM (#6109033)
PENALTY
   622. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:12 PM (#6109034)
France cannot guard Saka 1v1. They've gotten away with a few fouls on the edge of the box vs him, but he has Hernandez and their midfielders on skates.
   623. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:14 PM (#6109035)
Things are gonna get weird now.
   624. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:16 PM (#6109037)
International football is rarely this exciting.
   625. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:18 PM (#6109038)
I know this isn't exactly a revolutionary insight, but Kylian Mbappe is fast.
   626. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:20 PM (#6109039)
Beautiful run, less beautiful shot from Saka there.
   627. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:24 PM (#6109040)
These might actually be the two best teams at this tournament and it's 'only' a quarterfinal.
   628. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:27 PM (#6109041)
Yet another ignored foul on Saka.
   629. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:27 PM (#6109042)
I would love to see another England-Argentina final. Certainly seems like it would be the world's best team vs. the world's best player.
   630. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:28 PM (#6109043)
England are looking the more dangerous I think. Feels like they’ve gotten to some good areas but the shots have been iffy.
   631. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:29 PM (#6109044)
Brazil was pretty incredible this tournament (just like last one), but the xG gods hate them.
   632. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6109045)
I think Lloris would have saved that one if it had been on target.
   633. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6109046)
How many times has Saka been fouled today? Only some of them even called.
   634. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:32 PM (#6109047)
Gotta give it to Southgate. I don't think he's brilliant or anything, but after getting overrun in midfield by the US, he's set up with a 3 man midfield and added Foden and Saka, who just add a level of threat and technique on the outside that England doesn't normally have.

Edit: in particular, playing France, this feels like a matchup that England would have traditionally done the 5 atb 2 defensive midfielders.
   635. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:39 PM (#6109048)
That was an own goal.

Jesus. If France wins this after being thoroughly outplayed because of an own goal . . . ugh.
   636. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:40 PM (#6109049)
Little surprised at Saka coming off, he has been causing a lot of problems.
   637. spivey Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:40 PM (#6109050)
Theo Hernandez is such a donkey.
   638. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:41 PM (#6109051)
that's an obvious penalty
   639. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:41 PM (#6109052)
OMG
   640. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:42 PM (#6109053)
That absolutely had to have been a penalty. You can't go through the back of someone like that.
   641. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:42 PM (#6109054)
####
   642. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:43 PM (#6109055)
Hernandez has been dreadful all day, but what the actual #### was that. That was amateurish.
   643. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:43 PM (#6109056)
What on Earth is Hernandez doing there? There's not that much danger, and at least you need to be more subtle about what you're doing.
   644. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:44 PM (#6109057)
Wow, that wasn’t even close
   645. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:44 PM (#6109058)
what the ####### fuck
   646. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:45 PM (#6109059)
Oh no Kane...
   647. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:45 PM (#6109060)
Mount wasn't even looking for the penalty, it didn't look like.

But oh well Kane.
   648. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:46 PM (#6109061)
Is this referee on the take?
   649. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:46 PM (#6109062)
Bellingham does incredulity as well as anyone.
   650. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:51 PM (#6109063)
Taking off Saka was a substantial mistake.
   651. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:53 PM (#6109064)
If this result holds, Lloris is man of the match by a country mile.
   652. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 03:56 PM (#6109066)
Shaw's crossing hasn't been great.
   653. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:03 PM (#6109067)
For all their very good play England couldn't manage many clear shots outside of the penalties.
   654. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:16 PM (#6109068)
Semis and overall winner odds:
argentina     71
france        78  

            ORIGINAL    ROUND 16     ROUND 8      CURRENT
france        12          15           18            45.5
argentina     15          16           13            36

croatia        1.5         2            1.75         11
morocco        0.2         0.6          1.75          7.5

brazil        19.5        29.5         35   **
england        9.5         9.5         12.5
portugal       5.5         7           12.5  *
netherlands    6.5         4            5.5

spain          9.5        12.5  **
switzerland    0.5         1
japan          0.2         1
usa            0.25        0.6
senegal        0.5         0.5
poland         0.3         0.3
south korea    0.2         0.25
australia      0.1         0.25

germany        7.5 **
belgium        5   * 
denmark        2.5 *
uruguay        1.5 *

serbia         0.5
mexico         0.3
ecuador        0.25
wales          0.2
cameroon       0.2
canada         0.15
ghana          0.15
qatar          0.15
iran           0.1
tunisia        0.1
saudia arabia  0.05
costa rica     0.05

* upset (out 1 round early)
** major upset (out 2 rounds early)


Portugal suffered an upset, but were not originally expected to make it to the last 4 anyway. Morocco has played very well considering and Croatia has I guess made the most of their opportunities, but I wouldn't be excited to see either team in the final unless maybe they play each other.
   655. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:23 PM (#6109069)
Based on the odds above France looks like a fairly small favorite over Argentina right now if the two were to meet. Maybe as much as, but probably not more than, the 55% they were given against England. Croatia is still considered to be the stronger opponent than Morocco. (Croatia actually outplayed Morocco in a close but pretty boring draw way back on the first round of games.)
   656. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:30 PM (#6109070)
On another day the refs are better and England probably advances over France, and Netherlands over Argentina (the latter would have been almost entirely self-inflicted, but it should still have happened). That would be a very different tournament right now, considering that France/Argentina are 81.5% to win this thing.
   657. The_Ex Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:35 PM (#6109071)
Question for the break. I don't know anyone from Argentina, but they seem to be some of the dirtiest and nastiest teams around, and have been for years. Is there something in Argentinian culture that creates this nastiness?

   658. Miserable, Non-Binary Candy is all we deserve CoB Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:35 PM (#6109072)
Croatia is still considered to be the stronger opponent than Morocco. (Croatia actually outplayed Morocco in a close but pretty boring draw way back on the first round of games.)

Of course, this guarantees we'll get a Croatia vs Morocco Finals!
Which would be insane, but very probably not insanely fun.
   659. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:48 PM (#6109073)
Is there something in Argentinian culture that creates this nastiness?

The short answer is "yes". The long answer is "where to even start?"
   660. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 10, 2022 at 04:49 PM (#6109074)
Of course, this guarantees we'll get a Croatia vs Morocco Finals!
Which would be insane, but very probably not insanely fun.

I am rooting for it! Team Most-Chaotic-Timeline!
   661. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 10, 2022 at 05:45 PM (#6109079)
I was nominally rooting for England because I want Kane to actually win something. At this point I'm actually kind of okay with any of the remaining teams winning. Croatia/Morocco would both be first-timers and huge upsets, Argentina would mean Messi finally won one, and France would be the first back-to-back in a long time (and also I have French Canadian heritage).
   662. Howie Menckel Posted: December 10, 2022 at 05:57 PM (#6109080)
if anyone is in need of a team to support at this point, consider Croatia.

At Drazen Petrovic's public wake in Manhattan almost 30 years ago, those on hand were some of the saddest people I have ever seen (and easily the saddest people who didn't even know the deceased). will elaborate a little if they reach the final.

   663. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 10, 2022 at 06:25 PM (#6109082)
I generally have a hard time making my rooting interest about a country in general. If the reason is specifically related to the particular team, the sport, or the dans' support of the team, then sure. For example, Uruguay will take a long time to get back in my good graces after seemingly the whole country went insane over the Suarez suspension for clearly biting someone on the field. And of course the hosts this time around deserve whatever crap comes their way.

Croatia's already had way more success and acclaim in the last 2 world cups than they have any right to receive, based on their play on the field, so I won't be rooting for them.
   664. Howie Menckel Posted: December 10, 2022 at 08:42 PM (#6109086)
very well said, AuntBea.

I just can't get those anguished souls out of my mind, and what I assume would be the most thrilling athletic achievement for their country in their lifetimes - one thing can't just make up for another, but I can picture a hint of karmic symmetry for people in the sense of, "If you live long enough..."

not confident I have explained that very well. maybe in my next post
   665. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: December 10, 2022 at 09:18 PM (#6109087)
I usually use the teams as proxies for indulging in borderline offensive national stereotypes, at least in my head.
   666. The Marksist Posted: December 10, 2022 at 10:04 PM (#6109089)
On a related subject, during the FRA/ENG game, my in-laws saw Deschamps on secret and said, "that's a very Freanch-looking man."
   667. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 10, 2022 at 10:44 PM (#6109090)
if anyone is in need of a team to support at this point, consider Croatia.


No. Croatia, along with Serbia, Uruguay and Italy(yes, I know they didn't qualify and everyone was happy they didn't have to watch them whinge about every little thing) only belong in the semi-finals for teams who whine the most in football.

Every other semi qualifier has something going for them.

Who wouldn't want to see Morroco pull off the miracle? Messi finally win the big one? France go back to back? Croatia..yeah, nothing there.
They sh*t-housed their way past Brazil with their lone, on target, deflected shot going in. They are boring and they whine about everything.
   668. jmurph Posted: December 12, 2022 at 10:43 AM (#6109156)
A first-time winner would be cool, especially one from outside of Europe, but I admit I'm hoping for what would likely make a better final in Argentina-France.
   669. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: December 12, 2022 at 11:25 AM (#6109163)
I'm rooting for Morocco, then Croatia, then Argentina, then France, but honestly, none of these countries bother me.
   670. spivey Posted: December 12, 2022 at 02:17 PM (#6109205)
Berhalter comes out looking really shitty in this Gio Reyna story. Just a deeply unprofessional thing for him to leak.
   671. Miserable, Non-Binary Candy is all we deserve CoB Posted: December 12, 2022 at 02:51 PM (#6109209)
Mayhaps, but it doesn't sound like Gio covered himself in glory, either.
   672. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 12, 2022 at 03:02 PM (#6109210)
43 year old Qatari photojournalist at the World Cup died of a heart attack today.
   673. spivey Posted: December 12, 2022 at 03:14 PM (#6109212)
Mayhaps, but it doesn't sound like Gio covered himself in glory, either.


Oh he definitely ###### up, but I expect the coach to be more mature in this situation.
   674. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 12, 2022 at 04:18 PM (#6109230)
I expect the coach to be more mature in this situation.


I don't mean this to sound accusatory - I am genuinely curious because it's possible there's more out there I didn't read. What did Berhalter do that you found to be immature? From what I saw, Berhalter talked about the incident without mentioning Reyna's name at some sort of conference where his remarks were supposed to have been off the record but were subsequently leaked. It also means he lied to the media when he said/implied that Reyna didn't play against Wales for injury or fitness reasons, but if anything, that indicates he was protecting Reyna. Berhalter could have publicly thrown Reyna under the bus at that point.

If Berhalter leaked the remarks (or caused them to be leaked), then yes, that's bad form. But the article I read about the incident referenced anonymous "sources close to the US National team." And those sources provided details only AFTER the comments from the conference had been published:

U.S. coach Gregg Berhalter appeared to reference the Reyna situation without naming the player at the HOW Institute for Society’s Summit on Moral Leadership in New York last Tuesday, comments that were published in a Charter newsletter this week. (UPDATE: A U.S. Soccer spokesperson said the summit in which Berhalter participated was supposed to be “explicitly off the record.” According to an editor’s note in Charter’s original story, the comments were erroneously green lit for publication by a representative of the forum.


I don't think Berhalter comes off as a paragon of managerial virtue and diplomacy in this, but from what I've read I don't think he comes out looking badly. Maybe I'm missing something, though.
   675. spivey Posted: December 12, 2022 at 04:31 PM (#6109234)
674 - It does sound from what I see that the comments were supposed to be off the record. I don't have a great sense for how frequently off the record comments get, well, recorded. But it strikes me as a private matter that there was risk of this happening. It seems like he wanted to use it as an example for why he was talking at this leadership summit, I just don't think it showed great judgement in using this example. Maybe "immature" is the wrong word.
   676. SoSH U at work Posted: December 12, 2022 at 04:31 PM (#6109235)
Berhalter talked about the incident without mentioning Reyna's name at some sort of conference where his remarks were supposed to have been off the record


The idea someone can speak in front of a bunch of people, most of them not journalists, and expect the remarks to be kept off-the-record is either adorably naive or knowingly ridiculous.
   677. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 12, 2022 at 05:19 PM (#6109249)
Did he just declare that he was speaking off the record, or did everyone their actually agree to confidentiality? Because something being "off the record" requires affirmative consent from a journalist (and is completely meaningless for non-journalists).
   678. sunday silence (again) Posted: December 12, 2022 at 05:48 PM (#6109251)
teh other question I had was why did they have a team vote to throw Reyna off the team? Shouldnt that be a coach's decision?
   679. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 12, 2022 at 06:22 PM (#6109263)
I guess we can excoriate the guy for this if we want. Maybe Berhalter rubbed his hands together and cackled evilly as he was preparing his comments before the event, knowing they were going to get leaked and Reyna would get his comeuppance, while Berhalter would be off the hook for not playing a guy he didn't like.

I don't know enough about soccer to know if Berhalter is a good coach, but from what I've read, he's mediocre at best, so I have no reason to defend his job. I just don't see this as being a big deal from his perspective. He was speaking at a leadership conference where he was told the comments would not be published and even then he made sure not to mention the player by name. And he provided an out for Reyna after the Wales game so as not to have to disclose any kind of poor attitude. It doesn't seem likely to me that this was some carefully masterminded scheme to absolve himself of blame for the US failure and make Reyna the scapegoat.

Then again, this is international soccer. If Berhalter did calculate the whole incident, this wouldn't make the top 1000 list of underhanded things soccer officials have done to promote their interests at the expense of others. So it's possible. I just don't think it's nefarious.
   680. SoSH U at work Posted: December 12, 2022 at 06:41 PM (#6109268)
He was speaking at a leadership conference where he was told the comments would not be published


I'm not commenting on how this reflects on Berhalter's leadership or decision making. I'm merely pointing out that thinking comments made before any large group of people will not get out, regardless of assurances, is foolish. And that's particularly true if few of the assembled are journalists.
   681. TFTIO was writing C programs in the '90s Posted: December 12, 2022 at 08:10 PM (#6109284)
43 year old Qatari photojournalist at the World Cup died of a heart attack today.

I'm not not concerned about MERS.
   682. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 13, 2022 at 09:21 AM (#6109318)
Only 6 players have played (not just been in the squad) in 5 men's world cups. None have played in 6. (Men's divisions only. Formiga and Sawa are in some ways even more amazing. I imagine Marta will be up there as well.)

Two of them were playing in this world cup: the little known Messi and Ronaldo. Three of the other four play or played for Mexico: Guardado, Marquez, Carbajal. The last holds the record for most games played in the world cup, soon to be overtaken by Messi: Matthäus.
   683. Textbook Editor Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:33 PM (#6109363)
not a pen for me
   684. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:35 PM (#6109365)
I mean, that's an obvious penalty. Not sure what happened to the Croatian defense there, that was so simple.
   685. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:38 PM (#6109366)
That was an excellent penalty take, considering how fast and high it was. Let's be real though, it wasn't anywhere near the "corner". I'm not sure why announcers describe virtually every goal scored as being in the corner.
   686. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:41 PM (#6109367)
That 2nd goal reminded me of when I use to ref kid's soccer
   687. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:41 PM (#6109368)
Hilarious. Two attempted clearances just go straight back to Alvarez.
   688. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:42 PM (#6109369)
Quite exciting, but that was some sorry defending. Also looks like Croatia's run of ridiculous luck has come to an end.
   689. Textbook Editor Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:43 PM (#6109370)
and just like that
   690. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:47 PM (#6109371)
Otamendi almost got kicked in the face by his own teammate there.
   691. spivey Posted: December 13, 2022 at 02:50 PM (#6109373)
I mean, that's an obvious penalty. Not sure what happened to the Croatian defense there, that was so simple.


Lovren happened. Seemed like there was just miscommunication/misexecution on holding the offside trap.

I am actually a bit uncertain about the penalty. I'm not arguing it, but the goalkeeper mostly stood his ground and Alvarez ran into him, rather than the other way. GK stretched his leg some but Alvarez basically ran square into him, he wasn't really tripped imo.
   692. Textbook Editor Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:00 PM (#6109376)
#691--That was my read precisely. The GK had pulled out of it and actually had his leg back down. I've seen them given (obviously), but if any situation called for a non-call and then maybe a VAR check, it was that one, but once the ref had blown for the penalty, the equation shifts to "was the penalty a clear and obvious error," a standard which meant it would never be overturned. My feeling is that had the pen not been given right away, it's quite possible the ref looks at it and decides "eh, the GK just got run into, he didn't impede the attacker," and then it just would have been a corner.

I'd be surprised if this game went to extra time now; much more of a chance it ends 4-0 than 2-2.
   693. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6109380)
But he had already come out, he wasn't just standing his ground, you can't just stop at the last second and act like you hadn't rushed out. For me if the keeper doesn't get the ball there it's always a penalty.
   694. jmurph Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:32 PM (#6109381)
Man this is a really impressive performance.
   695. spivey Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:37 PM (#6109384)
But he had already come out, he wasn't just standing his ground, you can't just stop at the last second and act like you hadn't rushed out.

How long does he have to be standing there for it to not be a penalty in your mind? Genuinely curious. Like, if the keeper is there when the ball is played and the rest of the play goes down the same way, do you think it's a penalty?

You see these given, but I'm not sure it's a black and white situation.
   696. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:46 PM (#6109390)
Argentina has been good today, but Brazil dominated Croatia even more, and so did Belgium. Croatia probably was also second best against Japan and only slightly better than Morocco. They did beat up on Canada though, I guess.
   697. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:47 PM (#6109391)
I'm saying he was already at the attacker when he stopped, anywhere else on the pitch if a defender is running towards an attacker like that and just stops and blocks the attacker as the ball is played past him, it's always going to be called a foul.
   698. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:51 PM (#6109392)
After today there is only one team that has not lost: Morocco.
   699. jmurph Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:59 PM (#6109397)
How long does he have to be standing there for it to not be a penalty in your mind? Genuinely curious. Like, if the keeper is there when the ball is played and the rest of the play goes down the same way, do you think it's a penalty?

You see these given, but I'm not sure it's a black and white situation.

He takes him down with his outstretched leg that he has planted to the side, I can't imagine that not being given.
   700. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 13, 2022 at 04:04 PM (#6109399)
How long does he have to be standing there for it to not be a penalty in your mind? Genuinely curious. Like, if the keeper is there when the ball is played and the rest of the play goes down the same way, do you think it's a penalty?


Without lawyering it up too much I think there was no way for the player to avoid the keeper there. That's the difference. The keeper was second to the ball and while he pulled out of the challenge he still impeded the player without playing the ball at all. I think if you could make a case that the player could have reasonably avoided contact it would be a different story, I don't think you can here though.

So we will get one of;

Messi winning a World Cup
our first repeat in 60 years
a first time winner

Sunday should have something interesting going on.
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