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Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 2456 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

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   1501. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 15, 2016 at 04:08 PM (#5197737)
Big Boss Man would be one who made his name in WWF then came to WCW and had a decent run, but he was a bit ahead of the Hall/Nash group.

Meng is another good one.
   1502. Conor Posted: April 15, 2016 at 04:17 PM (#5197749)
Sid was in WCW first, so I'd say he doesn't count.


Who *were* the guys who made their name in the WWF guys who made a successful transition to WCW in that time? It seemed like Hall and Nash were fine, until they decided to stop wrestling. I remember Curt Hennig being an effective heel. Who else?


Are Hogan and Savage too early? Because they would be obvious ones. Piper for sure, he came in about 5 months after Hall and Nash. Syxx I guess?
   1503. aberg Posted: April 15, 2016 at 05:51 PM (#5197810)
Who *were* the guys who made their name in the WWF guys who made a successful transition to WCW in that time? It seemed like Hall and Nash were fine, until they decided to stop wrestling. I remember Curt Hennig being an effective heel. Who else?


Piper wasn't better, but he had a decent run in the early stages of NWO. Terry Taylor was never great in either promotion, but the "Taylor made man" was probably less terrible than the Red Rooster.

The list of guys who tried and made the transition is much longer. It's basically 2/3 of the 1989 WWF roster.
   1504. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 21, 2016 at 06:20 AM (#5201230)
Another wrestling star passes away before the age of 50:

Chyna, dead at age 46.

   1505. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 21, 2016 at 10:58 AM (#5201410)
Wow, that's a shocker. Though I guess few of them should be.
   1506. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 11:12 AM (#5201441)
the "Taylor made man" was probably less terrible than the Red Rooster.

T.L. Hopper and Sparky Plugg were less terrible than the Red Rooster.
   1507. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 11:17 AM (#5201453)
Red Rooster is always on the short list of the worst gimmicks ever. You really needed to see it in action to appreciate how truly terrible it was, and how incredibly demeaning it was for Taylor to try and pull it off.

Terry Taylor was never going to be a player in the 80s WWF, he wasn't a juiced-up musclehead or a great talker, but he was a very competent worker who drew money all over the south. His career was literally wrecked by being The Red Rooster, his credibility was shot and he had to listen to chants of "Rooster Rooster" everywhere he went for the rest of his career.

Of course I've heard he was a pretty big stooge and a snitch, but that doesn't really justify being buried in a world with Hulk Hogan.
   1508. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 11:26 AM (#5201467)
Taylor's story of his NWA Championship match vs Flair on the Mid-South DVD's is worth the price of the set by itself.
   1509. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 12:30 PM (#5201546)
Yep. It's one of the best examples of why Ric Flair has to be considered the greatest pro-wrestler of all-time. Nobody traveled more and wrestled more dates against more types of opponents for longer. I grew up in the Florida territory where Ric's usual opponents were Dusty Rhodes and Barry Windham and I don't think I ever saw him do less than 40 minutes against these two widely-dissimilar wrestlers, and he always had the crowd eating out of his hand.
   1510. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 12:48 PM (#5201561)
It's one of the best examples of why Ric Flair has to be considered the greatest pro-wrestler of all-time. Nobody traveled more and wrestled more dates against more types of opponents for longer.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
   1511. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 12:56 PM (#5201572)
Well he needed something to pick him up after all that alcohol.

If cocaine was all it took to be Ric Flair, Jake Roberts would have been Ric Flair.
   1512. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 02:24 PM (#5201668)
Another wrestling star passes away before the age of 50:
Chyna, dead at age 46.



Wow, that's a shocker. Though I guess few of them should be.


Really? She has been pretty messed up for at least 10 years now. I'd say it's one of the least surprising deaths.
   1513. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 21, 2016 at 02:31 PM (#5201677)
I didn't realize until I started reading today that she had gone so far downhill. I knew about the porn, but it sounds like it had gotten very bad recently.

So not so shocking in retrospect.
   1514. aberg Posted: April 21, 2016 at 03:36 PM (#5201780)
Of course I've heard he was a pretty big stooge and a snitch, but that doesn't really justify being buried in a world with Hulk Hogan.


He's still working for WWE in a developmental/agent role, so the stooging apparently paid off. Not a lot of old wrestlers with regular gigs in the business at that point in their lives.
   1515. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 03:38 PM (#5201787)
I thought he was working for TNA now, but I don't really keep up with either of those promotions so I'm probably wrong.
   1516. aberg Posted: April 21, 2016 at 03:42 PM (#5201803)
I thought he was working for TNA now, but I don't really keep up with either of those promotions so I'm probably wrong.


Wiki says he worked for TNA from 03-11 and became their head booker, but took a job with NXT as a coach in 12.
   1517. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 03:48 PM (#5201818)
Well there ya go. Thanks for the update.

So at some point Jake Roberts' name has to come up in the deadpool, right? Cripes.
   1518. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 21, 2016 at 04:50 PM (#5201880)
Roberts is supposedly cleaned-up through the powers of Diamond Dallas Page. Same with Scott Hall, though I think there's been relapses here and there for him.
   1519. RJ in TO Posted: April 21, 2016 at 05:00 PM (#5201884)
Really? She has been pretty messed up for at least 10 years now. I'd say it's one of the least surprising deaths.


Sadly, yeah. This was one of those that people have been expecting for a long time. Out of wrestling, into porn, drugs, alcohol, possible mental illness as well....

That's not the sort of thing that makes for long and happy lives.
   1520. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 21, 2016 at 06:34 PM (#5201961)
So at some point Jake Roberts' name has to come up in the deadpool, right? Cripes.

Even among his own family, I'd put Sam Houston higher up on the list. Just a hunch though.
   1521. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 22, 2016 at 08:20 AM (#5202234)
Balor dropped the NXT belt at a house show. Hopefully they've figured out a character for him on the main roster....
   1522. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 22, 2016 at 08:45 AM (#5202238)
Even among his own family, I'd put Sam Houston higher up on the list.


Uh oh, and how is Baby Doll doing?

Lucha Underground was fun as usual this week. Just to make sure the lines between its lucha libre wrestling and grindhouse Hollywood inspirations are suitably blurred, Lorenzo Llamas was introduced as a new character.
   1523. aberg Posted: April 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM (#5202426)
Balor dropped the NXT belt at a house show. Hopefully they've figured out a character for him on the main roster....


Definitely seems like they're going to play up the shared history and have him involved with the Payback main event along with Anderson and Gallows. My hope is that it results in Balor and Styles surrounding Reigns rather than falling back from the title picture. They make him more interesting and they're so good that the matches are bound to be more entertaining.
   1524. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 01, 2016 at 07:59 PM (#5209571)
Kalisto v Ryback was much better than their Mania match. Really good for a < 10 min match. Also, good heel work from Ryback imitating CM Punk in Chicago.
   1525. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 01, 2016 at 09:01 PM (#5209611)
KO is saving this PPV after the near-tragedy in the tag match. MVP work.
   1526. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 01, 2016 at 10:54 PM (#5209717)
They had so many ways to make the main event interesting and failed to use any of them.
   1527. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 01, 2016 at 11:45 PM (#5209749)
They had so many ways to make the main event interesting and failed to use any of them.

Yep. And we're continuing to see the same thing - Roman kicks out of multiple finishers, multiple man interference, wins with 1 spear.

The whole PPV was kind of a mess, save for Kevin Owens, who frankly should be in every segment of every show. And Cesaro. I'd happily have spent my summer watching Owens and Cesaro beat the crap out of each other.

I look forward to more wacky Authority shenanigans. However will Shane and Stephanie co-exist? Tune in Monday, or don't, since it will all probably be erased in favor of something else by Summerslam.
   1528. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: May 02, 2016 at 02:13 AM (#5209777)
this has nothing to do with wrestling, but i think it's an interesting tangent to run through the WWE lens. how often do you think vince has asked these kinds of questions or had these kinds of thoughts over the lat 5-10 years?

...how is this an ongoing enterprise? How is this an ongoing TV show? Why are people going to tune in? How do we do 22, 23 of these a year and keep it engaging? That’s our model of the blended approach: case of the week and the long-form storytelling, which gives you a real advantage in broadcast. If you try to do 22 episodes of serialized content a year on broadcast, you’re going to wind up a soap opera. You’re going to run out of good story. You’re going to burn story just because you have to do 22 episodes. Some of my favorite episodes are episodes that don’t necessarily tie into the larger storyline.
   1529. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 02, 2016 at 11:16 AM (#5209968)
I'm not understanding how the PPV was a mess. That was probably the best in-ring product they've put out since WM31.
   1530. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 02, 2016 at 12:02 PM (#5210031)
The KO/Zayn, Cesaro/Miz, and Ambrose/Jericho matches were all good. Charlotte/Natty was good until the finish (angle was more about their dads than the women themselves, Montreal was 19 years ago/time to get over it).

Reigns/AJ was a very good match, but the booking was off:
- More about the McMahons than the match
- Roman takes too much punishment and still wins. Takes 4 finishers, only needs 1, despite outside interference. This would be fine if he were the babyface at the end of a long feud, but this was the first match in a feud where he's been playing tweener (or at the very least not a true WWE babyface). They tried to mitigate it with AJ's count-out win and the foot-on-rope, but they probably should have had AJ survive one spear.
- Anderson/Gallows are de-fanged already. Their interference didn't work and they were taken out by the Usos.
- Anderson/Gallows were seemingly set up to swerve on AJ (either aligning with Roman or a debuting Balor) but they basically did what they've been doing the whole time. I just don't see the point of using the established Bullet Club connections if it doesn't lead anywhere. Unless the point is to just make Roman look strong.

Really, the lack of swerve and the Roman booking were the big deals for me, and I think the swerve was probably just punted to Extreme Rules. Roman was given end-of-feud strength while the rest of the match was beginning-of-feud. If the point is to make Roman a monster heel that will take a supreme effort to dethrone, then this match makes sense. If he remains the overdog top babyface, then it shows they've learned nothing from the crowd reaction or just don't care.
   1531. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 02, 2016 at 12:05 PM (#5210035)
I just don't see the point of using the established Bullet Club connections if it doesn't lead anywhere. Unless the point is to just make Roman look strong.


Hulkamania booking, brother. Gotta keep the Hulkster strong dude, and when the odds are totally stacked against him, that's when the Hulkster needs to look the strongest.
   1532. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 02, 2016 at 12:45 PM (#5210085)
I'm not understanding how the PPV was a mess. That was probably the best in-ring product they've put out since WM31.

To start with, you have to put more than 6 matches on the card for a 3-hour PPV, even if the McMahon Masturbatory Madness segment did last longer than any of the matches did.

Owens/Zayn was fine, like it always will be. I'll always enjoy Cesaro beating people up.

I felt like Ambrose/Jericho kind of dragged. I don't know if they were asked to make it longer to fill time because of the aborted tag match. I hate to say it, but I'm getting kind of tired of Ambrose, though it was nice to see him actually win a PPV match for a change. He needs to do something beyond being the "lunatic".

But both of the women seemed off - I never realized until last night how labored Natalya can look in the ring, Charlotte didn't seem to be bringing much, and the ending was ludicrous. The McMahon segment went on forever and accomplished nothing. The booking in the main event was a joke - Styles looked great, but he always looks great. And we all knew he had no chance to win, the only real question was how many odds Roman would have to overcome in order to win and keep looking strong. Turns out, a lot.

And they'll have a rematch in 3 weeks, with "extreme rules" (whatever that means), and Reigns will get attached by Styles, the Bullet Club, Nakamura, the New Day, a returning CM Punk, zombie Bruiser Brody, and the ghost of Andre the Giant. He'll lose 3 limbs, 4 pints of blood, and his left eye, kick out of 41 finishers, get hit by lightning, be declared legally dead twice, then sit up, go "Ooo-ah!", spear, and win.

The best thing I can say about last night is that it looks like Enzo wasn't seriously injured. They've been tweeting pictures of him up and around the hospital joking around with people.
   1533. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 02, 2016 at 01:57 PM (#5210194)

And they'll have a rematch in 3 weeks, with "extreme rules" (whatever that means), and Reigns will get attached by Styles, the Bullet Club, Nakamura, the New Day, a returning CM Punk, zombie Bruiser Brody, and the ghost of Andre the Giant. He'll lose 3 limbs, 4 pints of blood, and his left eye, kick out of 41 finishers, get hit by lightning, be declared legally dead twice, then sit up, go "Ooo-ah!", spear, and win.


Yeah, that's probably what will happen.
   1534. NJ in NJ Posted: May 03, 2016 at 08:06 AM (#5210802)
Just watched Payback, I thought the main event was great...if they didn't do basically everything they did after Shane came out. Up until that point, it made AJ look strong with the countout "victory" and he could have taken a spear and a loss 10 minutes later and everything woudl be fine. Instead, they decided to overbook and pile the ####### odds up, making AJ look weaker and weaker as he spammed finishers and outside interference to no avail.

EDIT: Also, AJ Styles is off the charts good at wrestling. And Kevin Owens is off the charts good at being a wrestler, "LET'S GET A NICE CHINLOCK GOING!"
   1535. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 04, 2016 at 12:19 AM (#5211912)
I am really enjoying Styles, Anderson, Gallows in the WWE. Here is a ready-made faction that is over Hopefully the WWE won't jack it up like they did the WWE/WCW feud.
   1536. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 04, 2016 at 01:05 AM (#5211927)
If WWE didn't put them together first, then they're not a real faction. If the fans are already cheering them when they debut, then they're not over. The bookers didn't screw up the WCW feud, and Triple-H beating Sting was a "Wrestlemania moment."
   1537. MHS Posted: May 04, 2016 at 09:14 AM (#5212038)
I really like the PPV. I thought Styles and Reigns was awesome. They totally clicked, yes it was overbooked - but in sort of a fresh way since we haven't see that in a while.

I love that they aren't turning Guns and Gallows yet, but keep teasing it.

I loved Ryback and Calisto. I loved the Mania match, I thought I was the best match on the card but this one was better. Ryback is so awesome.

I really liked SZ and KO.

Y2J and Dean was OK. Nothing special.

The womans match was a bathroom break. I actually like the "womans" division worse than the "divas" unless Sasha is in the ring.

CC and Miz was really really good. The best Miz match in forever. The four way at extreme rules will rule.

The product is super fresh right now, despite all the McMahon stuff.
   1538. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 04, 2016 at 10:25 AM (#5212113)
So Ryback went home after failed contract negotiations, and then posted (essentially) how guys not getting pushed should make the same as those getting pushed because they're both working hard...
   1539. MHS Posted: May 04, 2016 at 11:02 AM (#5212183)
Well if they are paid based on my enjoyment, Ryback would be one of the highest paid guys on the roster. I hope they come to terms, because he is awesomeness.

You know what I am enjoying. No Randy Orton. There actually, aren't then many guys who get regular screen time right now who I actively dislike. Hopefully, Kane and Show continue to be kept off Raw.
   1540. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 04, 2016 at 11:47 AM (#5212240)
You know what I am enjoying. No Randy Orton. There actually, aren't then many guys who get regular screen time right now who I actively dislike. Hopefully, Kane and Show continue to be kept off Raw.

I don't miss Orton either. Ditto Kane and the Big Show. I haven't missed Sheamus these past couple of shows, and I never got Del Rio at all (during his first run, or why they bothered to bring him back). I wouldn't mind the post-WM sweeping broom to come through and push them all off to TNA, not that it will ever happen.
   1541. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 04, 2016 at 11:51 AM (#5212251)
I think the return of Orton, Rollins, and Cena is going to be saved until Summer Slam.
   1542. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 04, 2016 at 12:05 PM (#5212273)
Cena's coming back on May 30th, already announced. I would guess they are going to have Rusev win the US title and Cena will get it back from him.
   1543. MHS Posted: May 04, 2016 at 12:53 PM (#5212358)
More Cena vs Rusev would be cool. Just having more Rusev would be cool. With that said, I might prefer to see Rusev and Cena each work with the super indies guys(KO, SZ, CC, AJ).

I just want to re-iterate how much I love this title program. It's my favorite title program in a long time and am really excited to see how the play out the bullet club piece - so many different ways they could handle it. It's really cool that are creating some drama. I thought they were beyond that. Also Roman is KILLING IT.
   1544. aberg Posted: May 05, 2016 at 12:05 AM (#5213078)
Before tonight, Sexy Star was my least favorite part of Lucha Underground. Tonight, she had as match that might be my favorite thing the show has ever aired.
   1545. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 05, 2016 at 02:33 PM (#5213558)
I don't watch LU, but read they used unprotected chair shots to the head while referencing Rock/Foley??
   1546. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 06, 2016 at 02:48 PM (#5214643)
Lots of WWE talent releases today. The most notable is Sandow, who is somehow still very over. Seems like a waste to not use him.
   1547. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 06, 2016 at 05:26 PM (#5214911)
They really dropped the ball with Sandow - he was crazy over after the whole Mizdow thing, and they could have blown that off, given him a decisive victory at a big PPV, and then moved him into the US/IC title picture. Instead, they almost immediately went back to having him do impressions of other wrestlers, kept him off TV for long stretches of time... and the fans still loved him.

Hard to believe that WWE couldn't find better things to do with guys like Sandow and Barrett, but I hope they find success elsewhere. The rest of the group, no big loss. I liked Zeb Colter, but I've got a soft spot for old Dirty Dutch. Hard to believe they won't at least keep him on backstage - he's been around forever and has a good mind for the business.

(For those who didn't see the whole list so far - Barrett, Sandow, Alex Riley, Santino, Hornswoggle, El Torito, Cameron, and Zeb.)
   1548. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 06, 2016 at 05:28 PM (#5214917)
I really don't get why Sandow didn't go over Miz. So weird.
   1549. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 06, 2016 at 05:54 PM (#5214947)
I really don't get why Sandow didn't go over Miz. So weird.

It's the whole point of that angle. Miz treats him bad, puts him in harm's way over and over, the crowd starts to sympathize, the rift starts to grow. Then one day - Sandow has had enough, he beats up Miz, they go to a PPV, Sandow kicks his ass, the crowd goes wild, and they both move on to other things.

That's been around forever, since Dibiase/Virgil and probably before that. You almost have to intentionally screw that up to not make it work.
   1550. aberg Posted: May 06, 2016 at 06:53 PM (#5214984)
It's the whole point of that angle. Miz treats him bad, puts him in harm's way over and over, the crowd starts to sympathize, the rift starts to grow. Then one day - Sandow has had enough, he beats up Miz, they go to a PPV, Sandow kicks his ass, the crowd goes wild, and they both move on to other things.

That's been around forever, since Dibiase/Virgil and probably before that. You almost have to intentionally screw that up to not make it work.


While I agree with everything you said, the angle DID (re)create a star. Miz was dead in the water at that point and has resurrected his career magnificently. He's also more talented than Sandow in almost every imaginable way. I don't think we can lose too much sleep over how that angle ended.

Cena repeatedly going over Barrett at the end of the Nexus angle, though? That was a real missed opportunity.

Edit: And that means that the Nexus is down to Social Outcast Heath Slater and Make Darren Young Great Again.
   1551. aberg Posted: May 06, 2016 at 07:04 PM (#5214991)
The releases today also echo my theory that WWE didn't make any real stars from about 2005-2010 because there were so few guys on the roster to help elevate young guys. There was a whole generation of midcard and upper-midcard wrestlers who weren't around to help transition to the next generation. I'm thinking of guys like Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Edge, Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, Carlito, RVD. Having those guys around regularly could have helped toe establish and elevate guys like John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler, MVP, Wade Barrett, Sheamus, Cody Rhodes, and the rest of the generation that came right before the performance center. Without that in-between level, those guys were left wrestling each other, winning 50% of their feuds, and never getting any real momentum.

The only real exceptions to come out of that time period were CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, who both got over due to a combination of incredible talent, great timing, and charisma that linked them to the fans. Think of how many PPVs from that era were headlined by some combination of Cena, HHH, Orton, Batista, Michaels, and Undertaker. Those guys are great, but there needs to be a stepping stone to get new guys onto that level so they can ingratiate themselves in it.

Now, WWE seems to be putting more effort into balancing out that upcoming level. Punk and Bryan both put in time with the Shield and Wyatts. Jericho, Ziggler, Kane, Big Show, the Dudleys, Miz, Sheamus, Del Rio, and Ryback all seem to be on the roster primarily as entertaining fodder for guys who will eventually surpass them. Even Cena has been in that role at times during the US Champion run. I think that method has already paid dividends for Ambrose, Rollins, Styles, and somewhat for Wyatt. I think it will also prove useful for Owens, Cesaro, Zayn, and the next crop of NXT guys.
   1552. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 10, 2016 at 09:27 AM (#5217602)
http://wrestlingnews.co/john-cena-vs-nakamura-and-two-other-huge-matches-taking-place-next-month-in-hawaii/

This show better be on the Network. That card is insane.
   1553. Conor Posted: May 10, 2016 at 01:03 PM (#5217873)
That card is crazy. Am I wrong to think they could come close to selling out the Tokyo Dome with Cena-Nakamura? That's a possible mania main event.
   1554. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 10, 2016 at 01:16 PM (#5217887)
I get tingly feelings thinking about an Owens/Lesnar match.
   1555. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 10, 2016 at 02:21 PM (#5217960)
That card is crazy. Am I wrong to think they could come close to selling out the Tokyo Dome with Cena-Nakamura? That's a possible mania main event.


It might be the second biggest possible match involving currently active wrestlers, at least from a "dream-match" standpoint. Cena-Tanahashi would clearly be bigger, but that's about it.
   1556. aberg Posted: May 10, 2016 at 03:33 PM (#5218019)
I heard a rumor that they're branding that Hawaii house show as a Bash at the Beach Network special. I'm enjoying the SNME feel of some of these televised house shows on the network- fun matches with clean finishes that are only tangentially related to the narrative cannon.
   1557. Conor Posted: May 10, 2016 at 03:49 PM (#5218028)
Sell out the tokyo dome was probably some hyperbole on my part.
   1558. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 10, 2016 at 04:50 PM (#5218083)
Sell out the tokyo dome was probably some hyperbole on my part.


How close do the Wrestle Kingdom shows usually get? The novelty of WWE/Cena vs Okada/Tanahashi round 8 would probably be a boost.
   1559. aberg Posted: May 11, 2016 at 11:16 AM (#5218651)
Last 4 Wrestle Kingdom shows have had announced attendance of about 25,000, 36,000, 35,000, 29,000.
   1560. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 22, 2016 at 09:23 PM (#5226736)
That IC title match was bananas
   1561. aberg Posted: May 22, 2016 at 10:05 PM (#5226746)
Matches of the Year for me so far

1. No Mas Sexy Star vs. Mariposa
2. Extreme Rules IC Fatal Fourway
3. Takeover Dallas Zayn vs. Nakamura
   1562. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 22, 2016 at 11:01 PM (#5226777)
If they wanted to keep Seth heel, he should have helped Roman. That was what I was expecting.
   1563. NJ in NJ Posted: May 23, 2016 at 12:14 AM (#5226798)
IC Title match blew my mind. Other than that and Seth returning I could have done without watching this one.
   1564. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: May 23, 2016 at 12:52 AM (#5226801)
That "asylum match" was interminable. You want to talk about a couple of guys who look like they're absolutely sick to death of working together...
   1565. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 23, 2016 at 08:38 AM (#5226835)
I thought the main event was Roman's best singles match since Daniel Bryan, maybe even better. He did some really good work. That Razor's Edge Powerbomb was awesome, as was the sequence where he was tossing AJ around into the walls and tables.
   1566. NJ in NJ Posted: May 23, 2016 at 08:57 AM (#5226840)
I like last month's Roman-Styles match better, but regardless Roman has long since established himself as a good worker in my mind. He's got everything but mic skills. That and his booking are the only things that bother me. Last night's Super Roman finish was egregious.
   1567. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: May 23, 2016 at 09:30 AM (#5226854)
Last night's Super Roman finish was egregious.

Watching A.J. set up for that last forearm attempt was like watching Wile E. Coyote preparing to run into one of those painted tunnel entrances.
   1568. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 23, 2016 at 01:28 PM (#5227068)
Watching A.J. set up for that last forearm attempt was like watching Wile E. Coyote preparing to run into one of those painted tunnel entrances.

I had the same thought. I was shouting at the TV "Just pin him! Do you not remember what happened at the last PPV??".

This really was the worst one - Styles Clash, Styles Clash on the chair, then about a dozen chair shots, all in the space of a couple of minutes. But no - immediately up, spear, done (because God forbid someone kick out of a spear). I think they're just trolling us now. It was nice to see him break out some new moves, and he looked better than he has in previous matches. He's clearly improving. But his character is such a black hole that it's actually starting to suck other wrestlers into its gravitational pull. The Usos are now getting booed just by virtue of being associated with him, and the announcers look even stupider than usual trying to explain it (he's a star, that's why people boo? Sure...). There are about 5 people in the world who wanted to see him walk out of this with the title, but 4 of them run WWE, so that's what we got.

That "asylum match" was interminable. You want to talk about a couple of guys who look like they're absolutely sick to death of working together...

Props to Jericho for taking that tack spot, which looked just brutal. He had easily a hundred tacks jammed into his flesh. I'm not sure what's going on with Ambrose, but his matches have just fallen off a cliff in the last 6 months. Slow, plodding, and directionless is how I would describe this match. It did not help that they had to go on after the IC match.

The IC match was glorious and elevated everyone involved. They're making Cesaro look like a star, and at some point I really hope they pull the trigger on giving him a belt (because the crowd is going to go nuts when they do). I'm also thankful for the return of our Rollins and Savior. Here's hoping they don't just feed him to Roman over the next 3-4 months, then have him shake Roman's hand and apologize for ever breaking up the group. I guess we'll see where they go with it. I assume this pushes Styles back out of the title picture, which is unfortunate. We should be getting Styles vs Rollins this summer, which would be an amazing program between two guys who would be walking the fence between face and heel and really splitting the crowd. Instead, we'll get more Roman, and probably something like Styles, Gallows, and Anderson in 6-man matches against the New Day.
   1569. Conor Posted: May 23, 2016 at 01:30 PM (#5227072)
I like last month's Roman-Styles match better, but regardless Roman has long since established himself as a good worker in my mind. He's got everything but mic skills. That and his booking are the only things that bother me. Last night's Super Roman finish was egregious.


Roman is definitely good enough to have really good to great matches with great workers, and the WWE has a ton of those guys. He's definitely hit a lot more than he's missed when put in the main event slot.

I thought maybe Reigns-Rollins was going to be the Summerslam Main event and it still could be, but it sure seems like they're going with that for money in the bank. They still have mega matches with Reigns against Cena and Lesnar, but I figure at least one of those is at a Mania, if not both.
   1570. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 23, 2016 at 01:41 PM (#5227087)
They still have mega matches with Reigns against Cena and Lesnar, but I figure at least one of those is at a Mania, if not both.

Reigns-Cena is the big money match that they have in their pocket. I can't imagine they would be dumb enough to blow it on a non-Mania situation. But this is WWE, I guess they could just as easily make it the PPV main event for 3 or 4 shows in a row between Summerslam and Survivor Series.
   1571. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 23, 2016 at 03:25 PM (#5227211)
The Styles Clash isn't AJ's finisher in the WWE. I've seen a lot of teeth-gnashing over Reigns kicking out, but no issues with Styles recovery from the brutality he took all match. I have that match as my MOTY at the moment.
   1572. Conor Posted: May 23, 2016 at 03:30 PM (#5227214)
The Styles Clash isn't AJ's finisher in the WWE. I've seen a lot of teeth-gnashing over Reigns kicking out, but no issues with Styles recovery from the brutality he took all match. I have that match as my MOTY at the moment.


It's weird because i seem to remember at the beginning of his run them really teasing the Styles clash and then guys would just kick out of it. He probably shouldn't have used the Styles clash on the chair if Reigns was gonna kick out, but whatever.

Actually I think maybe one of the Uso's pulled AJ off after the second styles clash?
   1573. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 23, 2016 at 03:37 PM (#5227225)
Yep, one of them pulled him off as he went for the pin, Styles kicked him away and went back for the 2.5
   1574. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 23, 2016 at 09:07 PM (#5227501)
Sign on Raw tonight: IF ROMAN TALKS, WE RIOT
   1575. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 24, 2016 at 09:22 AM (#5227683)
Matches of the Year for me so far

1. No Mas Sexy Star vs. Mariposa


The idea of the worst worker on the entire LU roster having a MOTYC is less believable than Drago being an actual dragon and Matanza serving as the living vessel for an Aztec god of war. And yet, well, here we are.
   1576. aberg Posted: May 24, 2016 at 06:31 PM (#5228169)
The idea of the worst worker on the entire LU roster having a MOTYC is less believable than Drago being an actual dragon and Matanza serving as the living vessel for an Aztec god of war. And yet, well, here we are.


She's definitely the worst character. Mascarita Sagrada probably gives her a run for her money as worst wrestler, but he's a little person who is like 60 years old. Either way, it was shocking.
   1577. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: May 24, 2016 at 07:47 PM (#5228230)
Matches of the Year for me so far

1. No Mas Sexy Star vs. Mariposa
2. Extreme Rules IC Fatal Fourway
3. Takeover Dallas Zayn vs. Nakamura


Depending on the day I might jumble the order, but these are my top three as well.
   1578. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM (#5228628)
The brand split is back. Smackdown live on Tuesdays with a draft coming up.
   1579. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2016 at 10:48 AM (#5228662)

She's definitely the worst character. Mascarita Sagrada probably gives her a run for her money as worst wrestler, but he's a little person who is like 60 years old. Either way, it was shocking.


Mascarita is booked as a pure comedy act - if you had any doubt just look at how the angle with Famous B is being presented (by the way, yes, I did call 423-GET-FAME, that's 423-GET-FAME, there is a message from Famous B and you can leave him one as well).

Sexy Star has consistently been booked as a wrestler who could compete against men successfully, and while that *could* be done if the woman wrestler had credible athleticism, she does not. She is constantly forcing her opponents off their timing because she is slow, and everyone has to modify their moveset to protect her. Sexy Star may well be the worst worker on the roster and yet she is booked as being the absolute equivalent of anyone on the midcard - in fact, she not only holds a clean win over Pentagon Jr, she pretty clearly won her feud with him, following winner her feud with Chavo Jr.

I'm actually rather fond of how LU uses their female talent. Ivelisse is fantastic as a wrestler and a personality, and Taya is a perfect in-ring and out of the ring compliment to Johnny Mundo's character. And if you think Sexy Star deserves more recognition for her match with Mariposa (formerly Cheerleader Melissa) you weren't watching closely enough. If Sexy Star was booked at the level of Mascarita Sangrada I would have no issues with her, but she is not.
   1580. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 25, 2016 at 01:31 PM (#5228862)
The brand split is back. Smackdown live on Tuesdays with a draft coming up.

I was reading that this AM. This could be great or terrible, depending on how they split it up.

I have to assume that they'll put Cena at the top of one show and Reigns at the top of the other (which also has the benefit of keeping them apart until it's finally time to build for a WM match). I'm curious whether they'll bring back a second "world" title for Smackdown, and how strict the brand split will be.
   1581. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 25, 2016 at 02:20 PM (#5228915)
My bet is that they have the two top champs (currently Reigns and Charlotte) do both shows.
   1582. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 25, 2016 at 02:33 PM (#5228931)
So which wrestlers get packaged together on one brand or the other?
Do you put the rivals on the same show (Zayn/Owens, for example), or keep them separate until a major PPV?

What about Brock Lesnar? Does he just invade both brands to attack whomever he wants?

If the IC goes to one brand, I assume that means the USC goes to the other.
Then where does the tag team titles go? Will they create a fourth mid-level title to balance it out?
(Cruiserweight? European? Hardcore? 24/7 Challenge Belt?)

Maybe the world title belt is vacated, and instead there is a "Smackdown Champion" and "Raw Champion", and they fight for the world title belt at SummerSlam?
Then new Smackdown/Raw champions are determined and the winner of that (on a "minor" PPV) fights the current champ at the next "major" PPV (Survivor Series)?

   1583. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: May 25, 2016 at 02:58 PM (#5228969)
My bet is that they have the two top champs (currently Reigns and Charlotte) do both shows.

i think the best way to handle the brand split is to build smackdown around the IC title. make the show a proving ground where guys like owens, ambrose and cesaro can connect with fans and grow into a top line draw.

if i was WWE, i'd try to get monday's 10 o'clock hour simulcast on NBC. you could condense the WWE title picture to that one hour so it doesn't get overexposed, throw in the best of the womens/tag team/undercard and you'd have a hell of a show that wouldn't cost NBC a dime and would get great ratings.


   1584. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 25, 2016 at 03:59 PM (#5229076)
That hour is NBC's launching pad for new shows, so there's no way anything like that would ever happen.
   1585. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 25, 2016 at 04:37 PM (#5229118)
The band split could be very good. New Day is dominating the tag division so you could send The Dudley & Enzo/Cass to the other brand. The secondary titles could take on more meaning. The (Bullet) Club terrorizing the New Day just doesn't seem to fit so they should be on opposite brands

Some unrelated notes
The semi misuse of the Bullet Club underscores that WWE doesn't know always know what to do with talent who made their mark elsewhere. By contrast, they have done well with Kevin Owens
Calling them The Club is pretty terrible, I am excited to see how it all plays out with AJ, Balor, Gallows&Anderson;
Ambrose has fallen off lately. He delivers some great unhinged crazy guy promos (getting beat up by Triple H, then thanking him while he was beat up for giving him a title shot was classic ) but the crazy man stuff hurts his wrestling and he could use some new moves to add to freshen up his moves set

I don't get the Enzo & Cass love but I don't hate 'em either. They're the most "here's some promos easier for fans to repeat & act out" of all the New Era
   1586. Conor Posted: May 25, 2016 at 05:01 PM (#5229157)
Didn't SNME bomb in the ratings on NBC last time out? I can't imagine they'd do good ratings now.

The women's division is pretty thin, I wouldn't be surprised if they limit them to one show?
   1587. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 25, 2016 at 06:16 PM (#5229238)
Meltzer is saying he's been told two world champions. He's unsure how the women will be handled.
   1588. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: May 27, 2016 at 09:13 AM (#5230338)
I don't get the Enzo & Cass love but I don't hate 'em either. They're the most "here's some promos easier for fans to repeat & act out" of all the New Era


you can't teach that.

---

I'm setting myself up for disappointment by hoping that Smackdown is like the edgy middle ground between NXT and Raw. A world where Raw features Reigns as champ and Cena as US champ and they can do all the pg things they like, while Smackdown has Rollins as champ and Owens as IC, etc and can turn it up to at least pg13 sounds like a pretty good place to me.
   1589. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 31, 2016 at 10:00 AM (#5232514)
Apparently, http://njpwworld.com/p/s_series_00392_6_08 is the match that ruined wrestling.
   1590. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 31, 2016 at 04:15 PM (#5232967)
Money in the Bank is shaping up to be pretty great. Cena/Styles on its own might make me buy a ticket.
   1591. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: June 02, 2016 at 12:03 AM (#5234396)
i know the year isn't even halfway thru, but styles has wrapped up WWE "rookie" of the year, right?
   1592. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 02, 2016 at 08:24 AM (#5234469)
Judge rules Jimmy Snuka incompetent.
I didn't know he was this old.
   1593. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 02, 2016 at 08:39 AM (#5234474)
i know the year isn't even halfway thru, but Styles has wrapped up WWE "rookie" of the year, right?


Not until he fully "proves" that he "can hang" with the "big boys" and become more than a "B+ player."


Judge rules Jimmy Snuka incompetent.


The judge must have watched any of Snuka's old promo segments.
   1594. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 02, 2016 at 08:49 AM (#5234478)
Jimmy was never the same after Roddy Piper hit him in the head with that coconut.
   1595. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 02, 2016 at 09:10 AM (#5234491)
In completely unrelated news the judge that ruled Snuka incompetent will be the Anonymous RAW GM, be a special guest referee at Summerslam, and ultimately manage the Golden Truth
   1596. Chokeland Bill Posted: June 03, 2016 at 12:53 PM (#5235651)
I highly recommend the WWE24 on Seth Rollins. It's utterly baffling the WWE thinks keeping him heel was the right move.
   1597. Chokeland Bill Posted: June 08, 2016 at 09:56 PM (#5239594)
You guys won't believe this, but Takeover was pretty good.
   1598. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 08, 2016 at 10:25 PM (#5239618)
Agreed. All those matches were pretty good. I liked how Asuka & Niki Jax were screaming at each other at the end of their match

Anyone know of any plans to change the name of the Bullet Club from something other than just The Club?
   1599. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: June 08, 2016 at 10:39 PM (#5239628)
Anyone know of any plans to change the name of the Bullet Club from something other than just The Club?
it should be painless just to call it the 'bully club'
   1600. aberg Posted: June 10, 2016 at 01:11 AM (#5240639)
I thought wwe trademarked Bulletproof Club, which isn't perfect, but it's OK.
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