Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 2456 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 20 of 25 pages ‹ First  < 18 19 20 21 22 >  Last ›
   1901. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: March 07, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5413718)
[1889]And therein lies my biggest issue with today's wrestling fans. Reigns hatred has nothing to do with the performance, it's because they just know that he's being pushed over their worthy fat guys from the indies. "You can't tell me what to do mannn!!!"

Nevermind that he's never been booked to the unstoppable level his detractors want to pretend. Instead he's held to absurd standards where he's supposed to consistently job and clean at that.


he has one clean loss in his wwe singles career. one. and that only happened cuz of adderall. yes, he's been booked to an unstoppable level.

reposted for the flip
   1902. SouthSideRyan Posted: March 18, 2017 at 01:08 PM (#5419272)
Without investigating any further, I know that to not be true as he lost to both Balor and Rollins clean.

Now tell me how many clean losses Dean Ambrose has taken as a face.
   1903. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: March 18, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5419299)
things that WWE needs to do for chris hero:
1, buy him a wifebeater
2, buy him a pair of blue jeans
3, buy him a trucker hat that says "and twins"
4, give him this entrance music.
   1904. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 18, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5419316)
The first two seasons of Lucha Underground are now available on Netflix for your binging pleasure. The first few episodes of Season 1 are a bit off-kilter due to some visa issues with the roster but still feature some quality work between Prince Puma (Ricochet) and Johnny Mundo (John Morrison), plus some of the cool background stuff like the introduction of Mil Muertes. By the time you get to Aztec Warfare in Episode 8 (I think) the show is really humming. Check it out.
   1905. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 20, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5419919)
I don't know why these were made, but it looks like they had fun doing them:

Southpaw Regional Wrestling!

Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
Episode 4

(Seeing Rusev doing a country accent is hilarious.)
   1906. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 20, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5419923)
I caught those Southpaw things last week. They're amazing. Growing up in the south in the 1980s, this is spot-on for what the studio sets used to look like. This is right out of old Mid-South or Memphis.

The Ascension repackaged as non-ironic surfer dudes from the 1980s might be the way to resurrect their careers in the WWE at this point.
   1907. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5420088)
things that WWE needs to do for chris hero:
1, buy him a wifebeater
2, buy him a pair of blue jeans
3, buy him a trucker hat that says "and twins"
4, give him this entrance music.


5, change his name, since there's already a KO on the main roster.

---

the outfit he wore against roode has to be some sort of hazing... right? there's no way anyone is gonna take him seriously when he's wearing that knockoff team usa basketball gear that's two sizes too small.
   1908. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5420115)
Without investigating any further, I know that to not be true as he lost to both Balor and Rollins clean.


thank you for the correction. i forgot about the balor loss, which is his second clean singles loss.

Now tell me how many clean losses Dean Ambrose has taken as a face.


now tell me who was voted pwi's most hated wrestler of 2016 (becoming the first nominal face to win the award) and which one was voted pwi's 2nd most popular wrestler of 2016 (and who was voted most popular wrestler in 2014 and 2015).

one of these guys is good at his job (connecting with the fans), the other... not so much.
   1909. SouthSideRyan Posted: March 23, 2017 at 02:56 AM (#5421896)
So not taking enough clean losses isn't the issue with Roman? One of these guys has fans emotionally invested in his matches despite them being determined to hate him at the onset. The other loses them despite drawing a pop upon his entrance.

And PWI, really?
   1910. aberg Posted: March 23, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5422193)
I guess the question is whether they could get a better (bigger?) reaction toward Roman that high on the card if they booked him differently or if someone else would get a better reaction if they were in his spot.

On the one hand, I think it's doubtful that they have anyone else who would get a bigger reaction if they were slotted in as the top Raw babyface. I also don't think Roman would get more of a reaction if he was a true heel. Many loud fans hate him for being an arrogant babyface against their will. Turning him heel would not get a bigger reaction from those fans. Succinctly, I don't think heel Roman or another guy would get a bigger reaction if slotted into his spot.

That gets into a secondary question of what it does in the long term. I think Cena's career provides evidence that there's a lower ceiling for a mixed-reaction babyface than for a babyface that the fans universally like (Rock, Austin, even Daniel Bryan briefly). So, would it make more sense to keep using Roman in that role, knowing that he won't ever optimize it, or would it make more sense to rotate other guys through the top babyface role until you land on one who is red hot? There are a couple of variables in that second scenario- how likely do you think your other options are to break through as top babyfaces, and how strong is your top heel in the meantime? It seemed like they were willing to try Finn in that role before his injury, so maybe they felt that he was strong enough as that top face to make it worth the short-term loss in heat. As for the top heel question, if Brock was working regularly, he might be the guy to do that. Owens is still getting over himself and it's hard to get a face and a heel established simultaneously.

TLDR: No, Roman isn't popular as a top babyface, but he gets a reaction, and it's not crazy for them to settle for that without a clear successor.
   1911. Chokeland Bill Posted: March 23, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5422340)
Roman and Dean have around the same number of clean losses, though Roman's all came around the suspension. The problem with Roman's booking is that he sometimes wins despite an absurd amount of hijinx. But that's just WWE's top babyface booking, it's not Roman alone. Roman is just not a good fit, character-wise or delivery-wise, for WWE's top babyface mold, especially the underdog BS.

WWE has really hamstrung themselves by fully committing to Roman in that spot at the expense of other potential candidates. Rather than keeping several guys in the running and seeing who pans out, they've put all their stock in Roman. Everyone else has been weakened to the point that they can't really take the role. So now he really is the "best" fit for the next top guy that they currently employ, accounting for age, look, performance, etc. Ambrose is the only guy even close but they clearly don't think he belongs there. Maybe there's someone lurking in the performance center, but there's no one currently on NXT TV that can get there either, and anyone coming through the PC is likely to face the same struggles with promos that Roman does. They simply aren't training people correctly for how things work on the main roster.

Some clever revisionist history would have Roman breaking up the Shield and taking the Rollins role, possibly including the Mania 31 cash-in (this time interfering in a Bryan-Lesnar match). People would have hated him for those actions, but you otherwise book him somewhat babyface by winning matches clean and not really doing anything outright "wrong". A monster heel in the vein of Lesnar so people respect him as a badass and want to cheer for him. Have Lesnar keep killing our heroes. Then have Roman turn face and take down Lesnar and you have your top guy.
   1912. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: March 23, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5422467)
Many loud fans hate him for being an arrogant babyface against their will. Turning him heel would not get a bigger reaction from those fans.
it worked for batista.
   1913. aberg Posted: March 23, 2017 at 06:03 PM (#5422534)
it worked for batista.


People were bored and indifferent to Batista as a babyface. There was never the same vitriol as there is towards Reigns.
   1914. SouthSideRyan Posted: March 30, 2017 at 04:38 AM (#5425772)
Meltzer reported that Reigns is far and away #2 in selling merch behind Cena.
   1915. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5427713)
AJ/Shane was way better than it had any right to be.
   1916. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 08:37 PM (#5427741)
KO/Jericho also very good.

Raw Women's match was well-executed, but felt like it had a lot of content cut for time. Ironically it was best while Nia was in it. Finish came way earlier than I expected.

They've front loaded the PPV with the matches most likely to be good.

EDIT: and just as I say that, the next match is Enzo.
   1917. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 08:52 PM (#5427760)
And now the match is a lot more interesting
   1918. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 09:09 PM (#5427786)
So far this a lot more Mania 31 than Mania 32.
   1919. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 10:12 PM (#5427834)
HHH/Seth was a bit too slow and meandering. A Seth that can't run wild isn't a good opponent for HHH. Still, the finishing sequence was well done. This remains a top-notch Mania.
   1920. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 10:44 PM (#5427857)
Orton/Wyatt started out with great intensity. Then it had silly ring gimmicks, finisher spamming, and an abrupt ending. First real dud of the night.
   1921. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5427874)
Brock/Goldberg was exactly what it needed to be. Really fun match. That Lesnar leap was amazing.
   1922. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 11:19 PM (#5427885)
Smackdown Women was a mess. Several botches. Carmella was on top of a prone Naomi for than 3 seconds, ref just stands there. Naomi's submission hold was pretty nasty looking though.
   1923. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 02, 2017 at 11:28 PM (#5427886)
No Holds Barred...... interesting. I was thinking no heel turn, but NHB makes it more likely I think.
   1924. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5427906)
Main event was ok. Taker had a little bit of gas in the tank at the beginning, but he ran out quickly and Roman was basically left with nothing to work with. Really came off like a mercy killing, which is the wrong feel for a main event of Wrestlemania.

Overall, the full event was way better than I thought it would be going in. It was really clicking for the first 4 hours. It's just way too long now.

   1925. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5428067)
There was some good stuff yesterday, particularly in the first half of the card. But it felt like it really fell apart starting with the Cena/Miz match and never recovered. Though I do agree that the Brock/Goldberg match was pretty much perfect - just two guys going at each other as hard as they could, and Brock looks like a beast again now. That leap over the spear was pretty spectacular.

It's fine that the Hardys are back, but it also kind of feels like here's the WWE again relying on nostalgia for better times instead of working to build new stars. The Hardys are in (or near) their 40s at this point and should not come in to be the centerpiece of what is a pretty strong set of tag teams. I would have been OK if they had just stayed broken in the indys, and the 4th team (assuming they needed one) was one of the strong teams coming up from NXT.

The women in both matches were treated as afterthoughts. The RAW match was rushed with what felt like an abrupt ending (there was a lot of that - I was shocked by how the Orton/Wyatt match ended, leaving aside the perplexing question of why they would bother to put the title on Orton at this point), and the Smackdown match felt even more rushed, like a bad TV match. I'm not sure why Naomi is suddenly the face of the brand, but it's not really doing much to push forward the narrative that the Divas have been left behind in favor of women's wrestling.

Reigns/UT... it's hard to think someone thought this was a good idea. This is only going to sour the crowds more on Reigns, and unless they're planning to pull the trigger on the heel turn now they're basically digging him into a hole that he's never really going to get out of. This isn't HBK retiring Flair - that was two grizzled and venerable veterans going at it, plus Michaels was a part-timer himself at that point and the whole match was built around mutual respect. This is Legend Killer Larry Zbyzsko stuff, but that only worked because he heeled it up like no one's business. I have no idea where they go from here. I assume they're building to Reigns/Brock, but as it was at WM31 Brock will be the clear fan favorite in that matchup. I don't know who you could put Roman against at this point and have him get cheered.

Also - from the start of the pre-show to the end of the UTs long walk back was over 7 hours. That's about 2 hours longer than it should have been. Part of the reason the crowds were dying for the 2nd half of the card is that they had already been there for so long. It's hard to keep your enthusiasm up for so much time and through so many fillers. (Pitbull concert... should have gotten the axe. Though I'm sure they had a contract saying that they couldn't cut him for time reasons.)

All in all it was better than last year, and the first half of the card was really good. But the main event ended on a sour note.
   1926. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: April 03, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5428079)
Holy crap..."Okay, J.R. We all know you've had a rough couple of weeks...but now it's time to have some fun!" Cringeworthy. I did, in fact, cringe.
   1927. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5428085)
Neville-Aries- Fun way to start the show. Being in the first hour of a two-hour preshow took some of the air out of the match, but they did a good job. Neville going over is probably the right result because they can continue the rivalry and it will bring more heat to 205 Live than they have had with the comedy booking.

Mojo wins the Andre- Gronk was absurd, and it made me laugh. As soon as Big Show and Strowman were thrown out, it was obvious that it was being treated as a comedy match, and that's ok. If we're still expecting the Andre to mean something after it has been a joke for the first three years, that's probably on us.

Ambrose-Corbin- Steve Austin sometimes says on his podcast, "both guys worked hard" as a way to pay respect to wrestlers who tried, but either lacked any chemistry or story. I think that saying applies here. Just felt flat.

Styles-Shane- In my mind, pretty easily the best match of the night. I liked the story that AJ tried mat grappling, and Shane matched him, so AJ tried strikes, and Shane matched him, so AJ tried suplexes and throws, and Shane matched him. At that point, they pulled out the stops and went nuts. That was MUCH more than I expected from Shane. Great job by both guys.

Owens-Jericho- Tough spot to go on, but they did what they needed to do. I had a little bit of concern that Jericho wouldn't look great in an extended singles match, but I was wrong. This match was my 2nd favorite. Owens with the US Belt so shortly after being Universal Champ is a little weird, but I'm excited to see how it develops.

Bayley wins women's 4way- If Nia Jax was only added to the match late in the game and then eliminated first, what was the point of having her in at all? It was also strange that the eliminations came after non-finishers. I'm usually a proponent of that sort of booking, but it's weird to do it at Wrestlemania out of nowhere. Charlotte's Phoenix Splash to the floor was amazing.

Hardys win tag 4way- Poor Sheamus's ladder didn't break. This match certainly wasn't on the level of the Dudley-Hardy-EC TLCs, but I still had fun watching it. Very curious what happens with the Hardy gimmick when Matt gets a mic. I'm also impressed with how far Gallows and Anderson have come in terms of crowd reaction. I wonder if Southpaw helped them that much.

Cena and Nikki vs. Miz and Maryse- This was a bad match. After the phenomenal build, it was basically a few minutes of Miz taunting, Maryse performing literally no offense in her big comeback, and then a sudden finish. Also, if the story is built around Cena having a fake relationship for TV cameras, how does proposing on camera refute that criticism?

Rollins-HHH- Stood out on this show because they really took their time and told a simple story. I liked it. It plodded a little, but the last few minutes really redeemed it and the finish was very exciting. Hopefully it helps Rollins find a better track as a baby face, but I'm skeptical. He was still hitting the wrong beats on Raw last week.

Naomi wins SD women's match- pretty forgettable. Good for Naomi, I like her. Not sure what Becky's look was supposed to be. Wasn't this supposed to be built around surprise returns?

Brock-Goldberg- I don't like Goldberg at all, but they did what they had to do. At least he bumped a few times in exchange for the checks he picked up over the last several months. I think the match clocked in at something like 4:40, which is still on the light side, but I can't say that I wanted to see much more from either of them.

Reigns-Taker- I like the idea of doing a grand send-off for Taker and I thought the post-match was actually very well done. The problem was that the match was not good. Reigns is a good worker, but he was sloppy in this match for some reason. Taker looked very good for the first five minutes and slowly deteriorated as the match went on. The botched tombstone reversal, the awkward triangle choke, and the very clumsy finish all took me out of the moment. Also, the booking issues for Roman are going to be... weird.

Also - from the start of the pre-show to the end of the UTs long walk back was over 7 hours. That's about 2 hours longer than it should have been. Part of the reason the crowds were dying for the 2nd half of the card is that they had already been there for so long. It's hard to keep your enthusiasm up for so much time and through so many fillers. (Pitbull concert... should have gotten the axe. Though I'm sure they had a contract saying that they couldn't cut him for time reasons.)


QFT. I was EXHAUSTED well before the finish. I get that they want to include as many people as possible on the card, but if the result is that the show is not fun to watch, that's a real problem. I kind of think that they should make the "preshow" a separate show at some other point during the weekend- a Wrestlemania Night 1 kind of thing. Have that run 2 hours and the actual show run 4. That probably won't happen, but this show was a slog.

And who cares about Pitbull? Does that really sell a single ticket or Network sub? I don't get it. Why would you pay that much to watch a wrestling show for a 10 minute, taped pop concert?

Also, no Rock, Hogan, Austin, Joe, Nakamura, any of the rumored returning women. Strowman only briefly in the Andre. I guess it was for the best given the already crazy timing.
   1928. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5428094)
Ambrose-Corbin- Steve Austin sometimes says on his podcast, "both guys worked hard" as a way to pay respect to wrestlers who tried, but either lacked any chemistry or story. I think that saying applies here. Just felt flat.

Was it just me or did you detect a smattering of boos whenever Ambrose did one of his trademark goofy spots? Turn him heel already and bring back the indy freak.
   1929. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5428097)
The concert was like 8 minutes, it affected nothing and served as an intermission.
   1930. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5428101)
Also...and I realize this could be my own smarky confirmation bias...but I don't think Goldberg had a very good poker face last night. I thought he looked downcast about doing the honors from the time he stepped onto the stage. Though he got into the zone a bit once the bell rang.
   1931. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5428110)
Oh, I left out Orton-Wyatt. What a weird finish. The match was pretty good other than the weird projections on the mat (but at least that was original). Then the pin out of nowhere. If they really want to get behind Wyatt, he should probably break his career-long Mania losing streak eventually. I think the bigger issue with this match is that I still have no idea whether Orton is a face or a heel. Or just a snek.
   1932. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5428113)
The concert was like 8 minutes, it affected nothing and served as an intermission.

I will give you that. After sitting for almost 5 hours, I was ready to go do something else for 10 minutes. Turned up the volume so I could hear from downstairs, went back up when the music stopped.

Also, no Rock, Hogan, Austin, Joe, Nakamura, any of the rumored returning women. Strowman only briefly in the Andre. I guess it was for the best given the already crazy timing.

No Joe I don't get at all - he's been built up for the last couple of months. At least put him in the stupid battle royale. I assume Nakamura will debut tonight, though I'd love to see him on Smackdown instead. I assume they have no idea what to do with Strowman now. They already fed him to Reigns, and he's already fought the Big Show. I'd suggest Lesnar, if I thought Lesnar was sticking around to wrestle at all in the next few months. Move him to Smackdown and feud him with Wyatt? Or team him with Wyatt as the new enforcer to go up against Orton?

Speaking of which - will there be a post-WM re-draft? Seems to me they used to do that in the past when they had the brand split, but aside from random rumors of AJ moving to RAW I haven't heard much about it.
   1933. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5428117)
The Wrestlemania dilemma now is that they have a roster full of talented people who should not be left off the show, but that results in a super long show that still feels abrupt because they're squeezing everyone in. I think this year's show handled it a bit better than last year's, but there was kind of a ceiling to how good the matches could be. There was nothing last night that matched the Women's and IC title matches from last year. Basically everything else was better this year.

Didn't some of the old Starrcade's get split over two nights? That might not be a terrible idea now that PPV isn't much of a concern.

The NXT show was very good again. Shocker.
   1934. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5428120)
Oh, I left out Orton-Wyatt. What a weird finish. The match was pretty good other than the weird projections on the mat (but at least that was original). Then the pin out of nowhere. If they really want to get behind Wyatt, he should probably break his career-long Mania losing streak eventually. I think the bigger issue with this match is that I still have no idea whether Orton is a face or a heel. Or just a snek.

Yeah, I didn't get that match at all. The mat stuff was interesting, but it needed to build to something. I had thought it (maggots, roaches, etc.) were going to be the prelude for the reveal of sister Abigail, who would come out, be all freaky, and either cost Orton or distract Wyatt. But the match ended so abruptly, I don't think anyone thought that one RKO in the ring would finish it. The crowd seemed too stunned to even react.

And Wyatt... what do you do with him now? Does he keep fighting Orton? Or move on to... what? He works as a charismatic cult leader, but he's lost all of his followers. He's Raven without the Flock now, which didn't work out so great for Raven.
   1935. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5428124)
Didn't some of the old Starrcade's get split over two nights? That might not be a terrible idea now that PPV isn't much of a concern.

They've already got WM Weekend - Takeover one night, Hall of Fame one night, and then WM one night. I don't know if this would be a 4th night, or if you could move the Hall of Fame back to Thursday and make it 4 nights.

It might be interesting to go WM Night 1 on Friday, then do NXT Saturday then WM Night 2 on Sunday. You could have a double main event (like the year they did WM at 3 different locations). You could easily have split this card up and put Goldberg/Lesnar as the main event for the first night, along with KO/Jericho, Wyatt/Orton, the IC title match, one of the women's matches, and the battle royale. Then on Sunday, do UT/Reigns, AJ/Shane, HHH/Rollins, the tag match, Cena/Miz, and the other women's match, plus whatever else. You could easily get two three-hour cards out of it, or even a 3-hour and a 4-hour if you gave guys more time in their matches and put more stuff on the card. Where's the Smackdown Tag title match? How about a couple more cruiserweight matches?

A 7-hour show this year just sets up for an 8-hour show at some point in the future. They'll keep pushing it out as long as people are willing to watch it.
   1936. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5428125)
No Joe I don't get at all - he's been built up for the last couple of months. At least put him in the stupid battle royale. I assume Nakamura will debut tonight, though I'd love to see him on Smackdown instead. I assume they have no idea what to do with Strowman now. They already fed him to Reigns, and he's already fought the Big Show. I'd suggest Lesnar, if I thought Lesnar was sticking around to wrestle at all in the next few months. Move him to Smackdown and feud him with Wyatt? Or team him with Wyatt as the new enforcer to go up against Orton?

Speaking of which - will there be a post-WM re-draft? Seems to me they used to do that in the past when they had the brand split, but aside from random rumors of AJ moving to RAW I haven't heard much about it.


Lesnar is supposedly going to be on at least the next PPV, and will be working more dates overall. He doesn't have UFC as an alternative any more, so he's probably going to be more willing to play along.

I think Nakamura is going to Smackdown. Cena is going to be off TV again so they need something. Hardys probably should have also gone to Smackdown, if only because the Tag division there is all but dead.

The rumor was AJ to Raw and Roman to Smackdown. I can't see AJ staying on SD for long given the Shane angle. He was "fired" so I expect Angle to debut as GM tonight and announce signing AJ.

Roman going to Smackdown may be the best thing for him. The better written promos and Talking Smack.
   1937. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5428133)
And Wyatt... what do you do with him now? Does he keep fighting Orton? Or move on to... what? He works as a charismatic cult leader, but he's lost all of his followers. He's Raven without the Flock now, which didn't work out so great for Raven.


It's not just Wyatt. Most of the Smackdown roster is in some sort of no man's land right now. Styles looks great after that match with Shane, but he might be leaving for Raw, or he might get turned face by the crowd. Miz just had an embarrassing loss to Cena, who seems primed to take some time off to do a victory lap on talk shows with his fiancee. Orton is the champ, but nobody knows if he's a face or heel and he has feuded with almost everyone on the show already. We covered Ambrose earlier- he's just kind of there right now. Corbin had some positive momentum, but he just lost on the preshow. Dolph is probably lower on the card than Mojo Rawley right now.

On a positive note, Smackdown has done a really good job sorting these things out and creating cogent stories since the brand split. One fun option would be an AJ-Randy angle that results in a clearer double turn. Another would be to have Nakamura debut and feud with Orton, eventually winning the title. Then he could do a feud with basically every top guy on SD for the next 6-12 months, culminating with this destined rematch with Styles on a big stage.
   1938. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5428138)
Roman going to Smackdown may be the best thing for him. The better written promos and Talking Smack.


I don't know. I don't think he comes off much better when he's unscripted. He just seems like an arrogant jerk, and his TV character accurately reflects that.
   1939. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5428143)
I think he comes off as a more interesting arrogant jerk in an unscripted environment. Last week's Jericho podcast is a good example.
   1940. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:17 PM (#5428154)
Roman going to Smackdown may be the best thing for him. The better written promos and Talking Smack.

Honestly, I think getting him out of the perceived RAW spotlight wouldn't be the worst idea, but Roman is the guy in Vince's eye. And the guy is on RAW, which is still perceived as the #1 show. (And if it ever gets to the point where RAW doesn't seem like the #1 show, they'll just adjust the rosters to make it #1.)

I suspect that, if Lesnar is going to be around, they'll start building to UT/Lesnar at Summerslam almost immediately. The two guys who beat UT at WM squaring off. And then, when Roman wins that, he'll have truly taken down everyone except Cena (which they can do next year at Mania).

I saw speculation that the goal is to have Roman go longer than Punk's streak (in the same way that they pushed to have Nikki go longer than AJ's streak), which would mean about 15 months with the belt at a minimum. So we may be looking at Roman as champ from Summerslam this year up until WM 2019 (at least).
   1941. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5428157)
Holy crap..."Okay, J.R. We all know you've had a rough couple of weeks...but now it's time to have some fun!" Cringeworthy. I did, in fact, cringe.


from jr himself:
For those who may be wondering why I've decided to go to Orlando and participate in Wrestlemania week it is simply because I truly think that is what Jan would have wanted. I will be able to be around friends and fans in a positive environment of which I feel that I need.

The alternative was to stay home and continue to be reminded of what I've lost, if that makes sense. Being around my old friends and the many fans that I hope to interact with in Orlando is a blessing that I need to experience. ...
   1942. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5428166)
No doubt whatsoever did I have that J.R.'s sentiments about doing the show would be along the lines of that quote. I just thought Cole stepped in it rather inelegantly.
   1943. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5428172)
No doubt whatsoever did I have that J.R.'s sentiments about doing the show would be along the lines of that quote. I just thought Cole stepped in it rather inelegantly.

I noticed it as well, and I had your same thought - it was an... odd way to introduce him to the broadcast.

That said - it was nice to have JR at the mic again. It felt so natural hearing him there. I would be not unhappy if, given the current changes in his life, he decided to come back and work one night a week calling shows.

EDIT: And as I write that, I flip over to reddit to find that he has just signed a 2-year deal with the WWE.
   1944. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5428174)
EDIT: And as I write that, I flip over to reddit to find that he has just signed a 2-year deal with the WWE.


I haven't followed it all that closely, but it sounds like his job might be to do the PPV main events. That would be a good way to make it feel special.
   1945. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: April 03, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5428218)
That was a long show, and much of it was good.

Really liked the Rollins HHH match, I liked the two dueling pedigree spots and the second one was electric. Like that he got some revenge on Stephanie because so few people do. Return of the top rope Phoenix splash is welcome in the big solidification of his face turn. I actually thought Rollins was starting to put it together with his promise the last few weeks, changing the narrative from "you betrayed me when you quit helping me cheat," to "I realize I sold my soul and now I'm taking out back."

Reigns handled that as best he could, and I suspect that a few people who paid attention to the character work will appreciate the clear struggle he had, almost begging taker not to make him finish the job.

I think it's time to admit that Ambrose has an issue in A WWE ring. You can only make the excuse so often about chemistry, and he's had off matches more often than that excuse should hold up.

Shane did a shooting star, enough said, awesome.

Say what you will, but Goldberg's run put Brock back were he was before they have away his mystique with time and traded wins against Taker. Now WWE needs to pull the trigger.

Last 2 points are announcing related. Never bring King back again. Miz and Maryse we're humiliated enough last night (despite the excellent work they've done both in the build and over the last year) without King employing Maryse was a street walker.

Good to see JR, but maybe next time instruct his partners not to talk over him maybe?
   1946. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5428254)
Reigns handled that as best he could, and I suspect that a few people who paid attention to the character work will appreciate the clear struggle he had, almost begging taker not to make him finish the job.

I got that that was the intended storyline, and you could see that was struggle in the ring in the last 3-4 minutes. I'm just not sure he was the one to pull it off. They were going for an HBK/Flair type thing, with Flair fighting to the very end and refusing to quit or take any sympathy, ordering Michaels to put him down. This was not that. For one thing, the camera work was so bad you couldn't tell what they were saying to each other (so you don't get the "I'm sorry, I love you" moment). For another, it doesn't work unless both guys are old warriors going at it one last time. You have to earn that place of respect from the old guy through years of travel and work together. Roman has none of that. Cena was the man to send off UT - he's really the only one in the company who could have pulled this off. His whole schtick is loyalty and respect, two things the UT has always pushed in spades. If you make that Cena/UT, the match has a completely different feel (including Cena being much more capable of covering up some of the stuff that UT was physically just unable to do anymore).

Will they do some kind of a UT sendoff tonight on RAW? Where everyone comes out and stands at the top of the ramp and applauds for him, etc.? Or do we think that was it? I assume he'd prefer the latter, but TPTB would probably like the former. He does still need to pick up his dry cleaning.
   1947. rconn23 Posted: April 03, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5428288)
I'm not the biggest Reigns fan. I don't think he'll ever be ever to reach Cena/Austin/Hogan levels because of a lack of charisma, but his matches are always decent. Last night, I think he did what he could with Taker, who was clearly just so broken down. How many more passing of the torch matches will we get with Roman? Cena will obviously happen. Brock at Mania next year. I've never seen them try so hard to anoint a guy. He's a star, but I think his ceiling is more Batista, which isn't bad.
   1948. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 03, 2017 at 03:38 PM (#5428312)
He's a star, but I think his ceiling is more Batista, which isn't bad.

100% agreed. He's Kane, not the Undertaker. He can carry the title, carry a feud, even main event Wrestlemania, but he can't carry the company. And there's nothing wrong with that - it's a pretty good company to be with guys like Batista or Kane or the Big Show - except that WWE won't acknowledge it after 3 years of trying every trick in the book to push him and getting nowhere with it.

The level of boos tonight, if they even dare to bring him out, will be astronomical. No amount of crowd-muting technology is going to be able to hide it.
   1949. Hot Wheeling American Posted: April 03, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5428364)
Do they even try to mute it? It seems like they've accepted this, and maybe even court it now. He came out as #30 in the Rumble just so Orton could be assured a winner's pop.

I'm ok with Reigns and he's had some great matches, but three Mania main events in a row is a bit much, and I don't know what else they'd do to close next year's show other than Reigns/Lesnar or Reigns/Cena.

Ambrose #### the bed yesterday, but for a guy with continuously good reactions, his post-Shield Mania run has been rough. Let's look at all three members:

Reigns
WM 31: Won Rumble, main event
WM 32: Main event, won championship
WM 33: Main event, defeated Undertaker

Rollins
WM 31: v. Orton, cashed in MITB in the main event
WM 32: injured
WM 33: v. HHH

Ambrose
WM 31: I/C title ladder match
WM 32: v. Lesnar (maybe Lesnar's worst match and not Dean's fault)
WM 33: v. Corbin for I/C title on the pre-show

Not a new thought, but if they put half the effort behind some of the everyday players as they do Reigns, Shane, Brock, etc., they wouldn't find themselves as stuck as they so often do.
   1950. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5428371)
There was definitely some grumbling about Ambrose not having great matches around 8-12 months ago, but he put together a very good run that I thought was going to put that to bed. He was excellent with Styles (big surprise) and had really good matches with Miz. The stuff with the other Shield guys over the summer was good, too.
   1951. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: April 03, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5428372)
I thought it was a good Mania but nothing overly stood out for me. AJ is always great. I love Miz & Maryse but their match was kinda weak & I saw the Cena proposal coming back when they did the vignettes mocking Total Bellas. The New Day seem dead in the water & lost at this point but I'm glad to see Guns and Gallows getting a better reaction & the Hardys back
   1952. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 05:13 PM (#5428395)
Last year Dean was involved in the best match at:

Royal Rumble (LMS vs KO)
Fastlane (vs Roman and Lesnar, AJ/Jericho was also good)
Roadblock (vs HHH, a clearly better match than either Roman or Seth had against the same opponent)
Money in the Bank (MitB match, though Cena/Styles and Roman/Seth were also good)
Backlash (vs AJ)
Survivor Series (SD vs Raw, tons of people involved so he doesn't get a ton of credit)
TLC (vs AJ)
Elimination Chamber (6-man match, admittedly he was not a standout in it)

He also had a Smackdown match against AJ that was probably better than their PPV matches but was killed by commercial breaks and the need to setup the EC match. The Shield triple threat was also good, it just happened to be on the same PPV as the best WWE match of the year. His 1-on-1 matches against Seth right before Battleground were both good TV matches. The title win against Miz was good.

He had bad matches against an uninterested Lesnar, a middle-aged Jericho, and Dolph Ziggler. I really don't think Dean is the problem. He works way more matches than anybody and is probably pretty banged up. If he has a bad match against a mediocre opponent on the pre-show, I'm gonna let it slide.
   1953. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 03, 2017 at 05:36 PM (#5428416)
I finished watching it this afternoon, and I'm not a huge wrestling fan any more, but I like to watch the occasional match on TV and read up some of the recaps for fun.

The biggest moment for me was Brock leaping over the spear attempt. That legitimately surprised me, and made that match very memorable. The spear through the barrier looked like it actually did hurt Goldberg (head knock).

The Shane/AJ match was fun. I'm glad Shane has figured out how to throw a good punch now (or AJ/cameramen do a good job of selling/hiding), and I wanted to see crazy spots and I got them.

I love Jericho (from back in the day he was my favourite), and I think KO is fantastic as well. It was a fun match.

The Wyatt/Orton match made me think they cut it short because of an injury. That ending just seemed to come out of nowhere, and had none of the flash that RKOs are supposed to have. When you see him RKO a guy out of a shooting-star-press, you are kind of bored when it's just a surprise in the middle of the ring.

I enjoyed the RAW women's match...until Nia was eliminated. However, Charlotte's request for a high-five was hilarious. I thought for sure we'd see Sasha do something cheap/cheat/mean to Bayley as some sort of proto-heel turn, but the ending for the match just seemed weird.

The less I talk about the Smackdown women, the better. I counted probably 3 separate incidents where a wrestler botched a move, or someone forgot their positioning, or the ref simply didn't know what was supposed to happen.

The mixed tag match was a great show for Miz, and I hope he can survive the loss to keep being the best heel in the WWE. I like him (as a villain) as much as I liked Mr. Perfect and Ted DiBiase back in the day. I could have cared less about Cena's proposal. If he's off TV/PPV for a while, hopefully they can come up with some program for him when he comes back. I think he's pretty much run his course at this point. I like watching him wrestle, but the crowd just hates him too much.

Reigns kills Taker, and that's the way it is supposed to be, I guess. Making the ending so similar to Flair/HBK kind of cheapened it for me, but you have to let Taker lose and show that it's over.

The tag match? I was all in the moment the Hardy Boys music popped. That took me back to the TLC-fests with Dudleys and E&C. I had no idea they were coming back, and even when they did participate, I had no thought they'd win. I figured they'd add some spice, and someone else would win, and maybe the HB would start working their way through the division. Win? Never crossed my mind.
   1954. aberg Posted: April 03, 2017 at 05:57 PM (#5428432)
Oops, wrong thread. Delete!
   1955. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 03, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5428456)
[1940] That nonsense speculation about Reigns's title reign surpassing Punk has been around since people decided they didn't like him anymore because Vince did. It's not happening.
   1956. Hot Wheeling American Posted: April 03, 2017 at 08:14 PM (#5428510)
*bowing down to that Reigns promo*
   1957. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5428512)
Yeah, that was well played.
   1958. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5428529)
Second year in a row where the Post-Mania Raw crowd is too full of themselves to let the show happen. Yeah, Mustafah Ali is not exactly the best choice for a surprise match, but the match itself was damn good and the crowd was too preoccupied with beach balls to enjoy it.
   1959. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 09:25 PM (#5428534)
Very happy that the best tag team in the world is here.
   1960. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 09:56 PM (#5428538)
Looks like Charlotte and Nia are going to feud. Not sure who the face would be. I still think Charlotte should go to Smackdown and give that division a top heel star. Naomi-Charlotte is a fresh feud and would be a good measuring stick to see what they really have in Naomi.
   1961. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 03, 2017 at 10:18 PM (#5428544)
Jericho is so damn great.
   1962. aberg Posted: April 04, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5428769)
Second year in a row where the Post-Mania Raw crowd is too full of themselves to let the show happen. Yeah, Mustafah Ali is not exactly the best choice for a surprise match, but the match itself was damn good and the crowd was too preoccupied with beach balls to enjoy it.


Ali has been routinely having excellent matches on 205 Live. He has separated himself out of the crowd of guys like Tony Nese, Lince Dorado, and even Noam Dar as the top worker not named Neville or Aries. He doesn't have the smarts of Kendrick yet, but he looks to me like the first big surprise from that division.
   1963. aberg Posted: April 04, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5428770)
Overall, I thought it was a strong post-Mania Raw. Angle was great, especially in how he was way too literal in all of his backstage interactions. Foley wasn't doing it for me as GM and I think Angle will be a fun change of pace. I don't need a lot of long matches the night after a seven-hour wrestling show, and there were plenty of good promos (Heyman, Jericho, the Angle stuff) and storyline developments (Finn returning, Revival debuting, Emma!) to keep me interested. The crowd annoys me a lot more when I'm there, but I have to say I chuckled at the extended, clear "F*** you Roman" chants. That paled in comparison to how much I loved Teddy Long assuming that he would be the new GM and dancing until Vince forced him to stop.
   1964. aberg Posted: April 11, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5432995)
I had mixed feelings about the Shakeup Raw last night. While I thought most of the moves made sense (they were either wrestlers who were needed on Raw or who weren't being optimized on SD), I thought they presented it in one of the most boring ways possible. I miss the draft format where there was real fanfare around the moves. The conflicting logic about how the moves are made is confusing as hell, but I'll let that slide.

Going into Smackdown, I am fairly certain about these moves: Owens, New Day, Charlotte, Zayn.

I also think it's more likely than not that most of these moves happen: Rusev (needs new foes), Gallows and Anderson (Raw just added the Hardys, Revival, and Slater/Rhyno to an already deeper tag division, so I think 2 go back), Emma, Jinder (makes sense to trade him for Hawkins in a jobber swap to keep things a bit fresh).

That leaves open the question about Reigns. I was feeling confident that it would be Rollins going to Smackdown before last night because I think it makes sense to give him a soft reset. After that long interaction with Angle, it would seem that he's staying put. Do they move Reigns to SD without a comparable guy going back (basically either Cena or Styles)? Do they thin that Wyatt can roughly fill the spot on the card that Reigns would leave? Do they just want to clear the lane for Finn to be the top guy? How would they even pull that off with Roman in the kayfabe ICU after that hilarious never-ending beatdown?
   1965. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: April 11, 2017 at 01:12 PM (#5433050)
@1964, I think the events of last night at up a multi month angle between Strowmam and Reigns, which means Reigns isn't going anywhere, especially since, like you said they didn't bring anyone over to replace him and Finn send to be headed to an upper mid card tie at least temporarily while Seth and Roman each carry bigger feuds fit the next while.

That is all 3 members of the shield back on one show, and I think they'll want to keep a 3 man club in their back pocket in case they feel like they need to hit that button sometime this calendar year, so I don't see the good brothers moving (I also think that rebranding hints at a club reunion since it establishes that these two are not by themselves the club).

I guess they could set up Shield v Club w/ Styles at one of the crossover shows, but AJ looks to be turning face so I'm not sure how that would work.
   1966. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 11, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5433074)
I'll be surprised if they don't move Rollins. They came to the natural end of his storyline with HHH/RAW at WM. Aside from the Angle angle, there's no real reason for him to stick around, and he could easily slide into the top of the card on Smackdown. I hope they keep Zayn on RAW - he needs to be separated from Owens. They've wrestled too many times already in WWE, it's not special at this point. With all the history there, put them back together a few years into the future.

I agree on Gallows/Anderson, though part of me would like to see them move Sheamus and Cesaro. They're getting good crowd reactions at this point, and I worry that they're going to get lost in the shuffle underneath the push for the Hardys.

And I'd be stunned if they moved Reigns. Vince has always seen RAW as the #1 show, and Reigns is clearly his #1 guy. Plus Reigns is set up going forward - Strowman probably up to around Summerslam, then Lesnar (or they'll have Lesnar drop the belt to someone else, and have Roman go after him, with the goal of Roman/Lesnar at WM next year).

I agree about the presentation - in the same way that the initial draft last year was boring, with two podiums and announcements throughout the show, I miss the old version where they showed everyone in the back and people rooting/being upset about being moved or being excited that so-and-so was coming to their brand. They could have brought everyone together for this one show.
   1967. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: April 11, 2017 at 01:40 PM (#5433084)
After last night I'd be very surprised if they did move Rollins. You have Angle, in the job for 2 weeks, come out and say he's keeping Rollins to a huge pop. You can't reverse that the very next night, it makes your brand new HOF GM look like a joke.
   1968. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 11, 2017 at 02:07 PM (#5433114)
Supposedly Sasha is going to SD as well, which makes all kinds of no sense. Months setting up the Bayley feud just to drop it and keep her and Charlotte together? Weird. At least Becky and Natalya are there so the SD womens match quality should get a level up. Poor Bayley is left with no one to work with, and she was already floundering a bit.

KO should be great on Smackdown, basically taking the Miz role. Enzo and Cass are the other most likely tag team to switch, I think.

Rusev is out with an injury so I don't think they would make him part of the current switches.

Reigns is staying put.

Too bad The Revival appears to be on Raw. I could almost drop that show entirely if Sami/KO/Sasha/Shinsuke are all on Smackdown. It was already the better show despite Raw having most of my favorites, and now most of those wrestlers appear to be switching over.
   1969. Chokeland Bill Posted: April 11, 2017 at 09:44 PM (#5433438)
No Sasha, and I was wrong about Rusev. SD also gets Charlotte, KO, Sami, New Day, Jinder, Tamina, and the Shining Stars. Really top heavy additions, which is not the worst thing since the show needs some star power.

We will probably get even more Sami/KO matches, which is fine (plus eventually the tag team will happen). We now also get the possibility of Sami and AJ, which could be awesome. Women get Charlotte to give the division some credibility. Charlotte/Naomi should be an interesting test for the latter. They always have the option of a new Becky/Charlotte feud as well.

Raw keeps the Sasha/Bayley feud and can turn Sasha to give both brands a top heel. Finn/Bray feud could be cool. Seth/Joe, Roman/Braun. Some pretty good feuds.
   1970. aberg Posted: April 12, 2017 at 01:04 PM (#5433775)
These were my predictions:

Going into Smackdown, I am fairly certain about these moves: Owens, New Day, Charlotte, Zayn.

I also think it's more likely than not that most of these moves happen: Rusev (needs new foes), Gallows and Anderson (Raw just added the Hardys, Revival, and Slater/Rhyno to an already deeper tag division, so I think 2 go back), Emma, Jinder (makes sense to trade him for Hawkins in a jobber swap to keep things a bit fresh).


I got all four of the "fairly certain" right.

Also got Rusev and Jinder. They got the Shining Stars instead of the Club (the next heel tag team down the pecking order, I guess) and Tamina instead of Emma (female heel filler).

They really loaded up SD as the wrestling show, which is what most of us expected when they split the brands last summer. Owens, Zayn, Charlotte, and Nakamura are all among the best workers in the company. The top wrestlers who went to Raw- Wyatt, Miz, Ambrose, Alexa- are all stars for their character and promos as much as their in-ring work.
   1971. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 01, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5445892)
This thread has grown quieter than the crowd during the House of Hummus match last night.

Other than that, it was a surprisingly good PPV.
   1972. aberg Posted: May 01, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5445915)
I had very low expectations for the PPV, which tends to translate into greater enjoyment. Jericho winning was a big surprise. Bayley and Alexa each had their best main roster match, so hats off to them. The tag title match was very well done and I didn't see the Sheamus/Cesaro turn coming. Even Reigns and Strowman put on a good show and the smash with the ring steps looked crazy.
   1973. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 01, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5445958)
Bayley and Alexa each had their best main roster match, so hats off to them.

They really did. The whole card was a pretty nice surprise (except for Wyatt/Orton). At this point, it seems about time to give up on Bray Wyatt. He couldn't even win the House of Hooli match without help from the Bollywood Job Squad. Where do you go with him at this point? His intimidating cult leader thing has kind of lost its charm. He has no more followers, and he can't beat anybody. Either put him in a feud with a top guy and let him come out on top, or phase him out and figure out how to repackage him. He has talent, and he moves well for a big guy (plus the pedigree). They should be able to figure something out better than what they've had over the past year (with the exception of that short title reign that really felt in retrospect just like a way to get the belt on Orton).

I watched some of the post-PPV RAW Talk show (whatever they call it). Heel Cesaro/Sheamus could work very well. I'm interested at least, which is something I rarely say about anything involving Sheamus.

And Reigns/Strowman, at least they let Strowman win this one, and clean in the middle of the ring. (Yes, Roman was injured, but no wacky shenanigans, no foreign objects during the match. If you beat a guy up so badly one week that he's less than 100% when you beat him in a match down the road, that's a clean win in my book, and exactly the kind of thing that Strowman should be doing.) Honestly, I hope they keep Reigns off TV until Summerslam. Let Strowman just wreck havoc on the roster for the next couple of months leading up to the match with Lesnar. Then bring Reigns back afterward. He's going to get a better crowd response as well. The crowd chanting "Thank you Strowman" last night as Reigns struggled to get to the back was pretty damn funny.
   1974. aberg Posted: May 02, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5446653)
I really don't know what they're going to do with Reigns and Strowman between now and SummerSlam. The easy answer is that Reigns will come back and avenge the loss on his way to a match with Brock. But they HAVE to be hearing the reactions night after night. It's one thing for people to hate Reigns when he's wrestling Sheamus, a stagnant Rollins, old HHH, or even part time Lesnar or Undertaker. It's quite another when he's going up against another guy roughly the same age who also has a great look and a ton of charisma every night, who the fans clearly prefer.

On the other hand, the IC Title stuff last night was tremendous. I even liked Ambrose as a backstage interviewer.
   1975. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 02, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5446674)
WWE subsequently edited out the happy crowd approval chants accompanying each of Reigns' two beatdowns from the Monday night recap packages. What more do you need to know?
   1976. aberg Posted: May 02, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5446678)
WWE subsequently edited out the happy crowd approval chants accompanying each of Reigns' two beatdowns from the Monday night recap packages. What more do you need to know?


Not only did they edit that out, they dubbed in a "Let's go Roman" chant that was very clearly coming from a group of about eight people.
   1977. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 23, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5461443)
No reaction to unhindering the Jinder? I figure 2 years from now he'll be Jack Swagger - that guy on the roster who people say "remember when he was a world champion?" as he loses the PPV pre-show match to whoever the 2019 version of R-Truth is.

This is the most "we're using the world title as a marketing ploy" move since David Arquette. I sure hope they make a lot of money in India off of this, because SD ratings have tanked ever since they pushed him toward the main event, and it seems unlikely people are going to be jazzed about an Orton/Jinder rematch whenever that happens.

I think it's funny that, at a time when the WWE roster is overflowing with riches in terms of talented and charismatic workers, the two main title holders are a career jobber and a guy who only shows up on TV once every 3 months.
   1978. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: May 23, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5461482)
has WWE had a champion go full chickenshit heel since edge? i guess maybe rollins, but it seems like that's an angle that's been severely underutilized.

   1979. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 24, 2017 at 03:41 PM (#5462497)
I'm not hating Jinder as champ. He did wrestle a fine match vs. Orton but having him as Smackdown World Champ is a bit puzzling. As stated upthread, he's mostly been a jobber aside from being Rusev's sidekick. Having him as US champ first would seem to be a wiser decision. The Smackdown roster has several good workers who could feud with each other for the title: Styles, Nakamura, Owens

I don't read a lot of the dirt sheet websites but the Hardy Boys characters seem very muted.

The Fashion Police angle has been surprisingly entertaining and well done

I don't get having a non active champ like Lesnar

I also think theyve done little to nothing with Guns & Gallows and their histories with Balor & Styles

I've noticed this OT discussion has really seen less posts since the brand split last year
   1980. Hot Wheeling American Posted: May 24, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5462510)
has WWE had a champion go full chickenshit heel since edge?


I don't recall the booking covering The Miz with much glory when he held it for a few months. Though maybe I don't know the precise definition of chickenshit? Does cashing in MITB, then having major help in your defenses (against Orton and Cena; forget how he beat Lawler) count?
   1981. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 24, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5462542)
Having him as US champ first would seem to be a wiser decision.

Plus with him, they could have done the always entertaining and crowd dis-pleasing angle of him refusing to represent the US and insisting on being announced as the Indian Champion, then taking on a string of American wrestlers trying to stand up for the US. I can see him interrupting the ring announcer and bullying him into being introduced his way. They could easily have gotten 6 months of feuds out of that while testing the waters to see if people would really buy him as a champion.

I'll say I don't get why they brought the Hardys back. This feels more like nostalgia than anything else, and honestly I'd have rather seen them give an opportunity to one of the other teams (like Gallows/Anderson, or like Sheamus/Cesaro) rather than bringing back another act from the past like they did with the Dudleys last year. All that Broken stuff may have worked well in a smaller promotion, but WWE generally smooths out the sharp edges on anything like that these days. You're going to get a watered down version that doesn't bother anyone, but doesn't excite anyone either.
   1982. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: May 24, 2017 at 06:10 PM (#5462585)
I also think theyve done little to nothing with Guns & Gallows and their histories with Balor & Styles


This drives me a little crazy as well, especially since Balor has wrestled them a few times since coming back and they haven't mentioned it. It's weird since they were dropping hints before the injury.


I don't read a lot of the dirt sheet websites but the Hardy Boys characters seem very muted.


The real question is what TNAs end game is outside of spite. WWE doesn't seem to care enough to buy the gimmick off of them, and it's not like they can hand it off to someone else. They're paying a lot of money to lawyers for an intellectual property I'm not sure they can monetize.
   1983. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 24, 2017 at 06:26 PM (#5462592)
The Hardys have done little to no mic work/interviews on WWE tv, which is a waste of their talents. I'm glad they didn't go through way of the Dudleys &just; get jobbed out of existence.

They've touched on Balor & the Club but very, very little & more or less just to show how superior Balor is to them
   1984. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 25, 2017 at 12:28 AM (#5462719)
Smackdown's ratings have dropped 8.3% since Jinder became #1 contender, Raw's ratings have dropped 21.6% in that same time. Jinder is not tanking ratings, no matter how stupid I think the booking is. It's the standard post-Mania decline.
   1985. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 25, 2017 at 12:33 AM (#5462720)
Re: Hardys, I'm assuming they're trying to act like a big boy company and protect their IP rather than letting talent walk over them. I know there's been a lot of vitriol shot their way because of this, but I don't think it's coming from people who were going to watch them if they threw a parade for the Hardys on their way out while forfeiting the gimmick to them.
   1986. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 25, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5463106)
Your Canadian government at work, celebrating non-peaceful transitions of power, and opposing hindrances.
   1987. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5463127)
Re: Hardys, I'm assuming they're trying to act like a big boy company and protect their IP rather than letting talent walk over them.


The way the WWE handles IP has always been obnoxious and anti-wrestler and I don't feel any better about the practice just because their ox gets gored for once.
   1988. aberg Posted: June 05, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5469236)
Fun 2nd half the the Extreme Rules PPV last night. Joe as #1 contender could either be a way to elevate him as a badass tweener/babyface type, or just a one-off to give Brock a fun match at the fiery testicles PPV. Either way, it was an unexpected result and I enjoyed both the match and the finish. Also liked the tag title match (Sheamus and Cesaro really complement each other more than I expected). Neville as the unbeatable force in the CW division is also fun. Now if they could only do something about the incredibly boring writing on Raw.

As usual, the season (re)premier of Lucha Underground was just great, great, great. They mixed together enough hijinx and silliness to carry a 45 minute match without getting boring, yet the last 5 minutes were high drama. Both Mundo and Mack came out of it looking like bigger stars than when they entered. I'm so glad to have that show back on TV each week.

Lastly, I watched the finals of BOSJ this weekend. Will Ospreay is an incredible worker, but he takes me out of the moment too often with moves that have lots of excess motion that don't appear to add to the effectiveness of the attack. He needs to find a way to line up his acrobatics with combat logic and he'll be one of the best in the world. Kushida is probably already on that level and I'm very happy we get to see him against Hiromu again.
   1989. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 07, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5470678)
I loved the Miz's comments when the fans chanted "you deserve this" on RAW this week

I will be interested to see how much Lana's wrestling has improved
   1990. Chokeland Bill Posted: June 12, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5474429)
So who has watched Okada/Omega Round 2? I think the first half was better this time, but the end of the first match was better. Both great matches. Okada is having a legendary year so far.
   1991. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 13, 2017 at 03:06 AM (#5474761)
I've seen highlights. They have great chemistry together, some amazing spots without necessarily doing insane death stuff. The OWA near-fall up against the ropes was really nicely done.

You could do the "fight forever" chant with these two and really mean it.
   1992. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5474983)
So who has watched Okada/Omega Round 2? I think the first half was better this time, but the end of the first match was better. Both great matches. Okada is having a legendary year so far.


Yeah, I watched roughly the last 2/3 of the show, basically from where the singles matches started. Once again, I absolutely loved Hiromu/Kushida, but Okada/Omega stole the show. Omega might well be the 2nd greatest pro wrestler alive, but even he is noticeably behind Okada. It's almost like Okada is doing a different form of entertainment than everyone else. How he stays at that pace and takes/gives out so much punishment for that long without anything resembling a rest is beyond me. This wasn't 60 minutes dominated by bear hugs and nerve holds. They were going at each other HARD for 60 minutes with no perceptible slippage in the performance. On top of that, Okada has the Bret Hart skill of doing things in a way that keeps me in the moment. He doesn't do anything that looks out of place in a combat setting (ahem, Will Ospreay) and he lays everything in such that it looks snug. I said to a friend that he reminds me of what Randy Orton might be if Orton tried 100% of the time instead of 15% of the time.
   1993. Dock Ellis Posted: June 20, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5479399)
Hello friends. Have not checked in here for awhile since my wrestling watching is inconsistent and I'm often behind.

(SPOILER) Money in the Bank thoughts:

- The women's ladder match was going well until Ellsworth showed up to ruin a perfectly good match. I guess it got the appropriate heel reaction but I absolutely hate bulshit endings to women's matches. It's delegitimizing.

- Happy to see The Colons are now generic jobbers instead of casually racist jobbers. Progress!

- I took off the USOs and New Day. Nothing personal, as the former are far more interesting as heels even tho they beat American Alpha :( , but PPV are a goddam marathon and I need to pace myself.

- Lana really impressed me, especially as the match went on. She certainly was looking the part very well, but 2x attempted pins without offense so I was unsure. Then two pretty good suplexes, and then she did that really sweet crushing sitout spinebuster. She will do just fine in the Women's Division, and I'm happy to see it go well. Also good for her for stepping up her game and putting in the work. The bar is a lot higher than it was 10-15 years ago.

- I am all for the Jinder Mahal championship era. It's fresh and interesting, it makes great business sense to see how it goes, and he's a perfectly cromulent champion. He's built like a goddam He-Man action figure and is good enough on the mic to get the appropriate reaction. I don't want to watch him fight a bored Randy Orton so I'm glad this match is over with. But what I would really really love for the WWE to do is turn Jinder into a face.

- An anticlimatic surprise appearance by the Ascension vs. Breezdango. I was hoping for an NXT call-up or something but yawn. But I'm thrilled to see Breezdango get ring time and showcase their other talents. Breeze spent a long time in NXT jobbing to a lot of the Best in the Worlds, and I've always loved Fandango's sweet finisher.....on the rare occasion he won. Good for them.

- The licensing for Jerry Lee Lewis songs must be dirt cheap if they are using Great Balls of Fire.

- The main event was fun fun fun. One great spot after another, lots of highlights and brilliance, and Kevin Owens died 3x. You can make a Best in the World case for AJ, Nakamura, and Sami, and this did not let up for a second. Taking out Nakamura in the beginning was an interesting booking decision, I thought, and I wonder if there were concerns about his ability to wrestle in a group setting. I also noticed that when he did come back in, his confrontations were 1-1. But the moving of the ladder between him and Styles was a great detail. Leave it to the WWE to have my least favorite win in, but I'm fine with it as a heel move. I hope that jerk has to carry the briefcase forever.

I need to watch Okada/Omega 2. Is there a good link? I'd look on Youtube but just searching can yield spoilers.

   1994. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 20, 2017 at 05:29 PM (#5479469)
Welcome back, Dock! Great observations. The Usos/New Day match was actually pretty good. I'm not a Corbin fan either and it'll be interesting to see if the fans cheer Mahal. Amazing work by Owens and his trio of deaths!

(Spoiler alert for last nights RAW)
I am surprised they had Cass turn on Enzo without ever having them have a tag title run. I've never been an Enzo & Cass fan. I hope Cass drops his s l o w fake Italian accent or whatever it was.

I'm loving any angle involving the miz and maryse.
   1995. Dock Ellis Posted: June 20, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5479477)
I'm not sure Cass and Enzo could've gotten away with a tag title run. Enzo's journey into actually wrestling in the ring is bordering on embarrassing. He's also been hurt in the ring because of his lack of experience. I was charmed by him at first in NXT but now he exhausts me, though I have no problem with his presence as a valet/manager if the kids love him. He's 30 so I suppose he can still get better but he didn't start from absolutely nothing athletically, and he has not improved at all.

Wrestling is ####### hard but if the Miz and Lana can start from nothing and improve rapidly, then what's wrong with Enzo?
   1996. Chokeland Bill Posted: June 29, 2017 at 05:46 PM (#5485566)
Big week for the women, main eventing all three weekly shows in the wake of GLOW (good show, especially in the second half)

- The Raw gauntlet match was disastrous booking for most of the division but excellent booking for Nia and Sasha. The Nia/Sasha portion of the match had a lot of down periods but also had some pretty good sequences, including the finish. I wonder if the Ball segment getting cut short meant the match was forced to go longer than it was supposed to.

- Money in the Bank 2 was weaker than the first match, aside from the finish. They played it too safe. Carmella comes out of it with some good heat.

- I was a little disappointed with Asuka / Nikki Cross after seeing the reaction online. Some good action and a very good finish, but the crowd was dead through most of it and the LMS stipulation always leads to too much downtime.

Despite the good week, I think both main roster women's divisions are in bad shape. Too much heel-centric booking has basically killed babyfaces.
- Bayley is dead after her moronic booking.
- Charlotte can't play a convincing face either on the mic or in the ring, aside from her various aerial spots.
- Becky is a very good face but hasn't been allowed a good win in what seems like forever. It's a miracle she still has crowds behind her.
- Naomi can't work or talk, she just gets by on likability.
- Sasha is the only one in reasonable shape, generally taking few losses and not getting made to look like a complete idiot (yet). She's a weak face promo, but maybe she'll do better in this feud when she doesn't have to keep doing "we're making history" speeches and can let some animosity creep in.

I'm a little concerned about the direction for Summerslam looking like Alexa vs Nia. That would be terrible. WWE doesn't usually burn through a feud in one month so it could still be Alexa and Sasha with Nia coming later. With most of the division dead, they really don't have too many feuds left to work with.

I hope the eventual direction is Sasha vs Asuka for Mania season. I think their styles would work great together and given 15-20 minutes could match the quality of the 2015 NXT title matches.

I need to watch Okada/Omega 2. Is there a good link? I'd look on Youtube but just searching can yield spoilers.


Dailymotion is the usual spot to find NJPW matches. I subscribed to njpwworld, but it's not the greatest user experience if you're used to WWEnetwork.
   1997. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: June 29, 2017 at 08:51 PM (#5485732)
Despite the good week, I think both main roster women's divisions are in bad shape. Too much heel-centric booking has basically killed babyfaces.
do doo dodoo; do doo dodoo; do doo dodoodoodoo; do doo dodoo...
   1998. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 29, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5485785)
Dailymotion is the usual spot to find NJPW matches.


Specifically:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5q7idk_dominion-6-11-kenny-omega-vs-kazuchika-okada-c-part-1_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5q7nlr_dominion-6-11-kenny-omega-vs-kazuchika-okada-c-part-2_sport
   1999. Chokeland Bill Posted: July 05, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5487944)
The Kevin Owens documentary that just came out is top notch. It also doubles as a Sami Zayn doc, to the extent that one would ever exist. Lots of RoH footage which is pretty rare on WWE releases.
   2000. Chokeland Bill Posted: July 09, 2017 at 11:37 PM (#5490280)
flip
Page 20 of 25 pages ‹ First  < 18 19 20 21 22 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
James Kannengieser
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogTom Goodwin, former Boston Red Sox coach, says MLB bullied coaches into getting COVID-19 vaccine: ‘There was no choice’
(33 - 2:38am, Jan 22)
Last: PeteF3

NewsblogBaseball Hall of Fame tracker 2022
(1103 - 1:20am, Jan 22)
Last: base ball chick

Hall of Merit2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(126 - 11:16pm, Jan 21)
Last: Chris Cobb

NewsblogNBA 2021-2022 Season Thread
(2049 - 10:56pm, Jan 21)
Last: rr: cosmopolitan elite

NewsblogRosenthal: The pressure is mounting — MLB cannot afford to lose games this season
(42 - 10:08pm, Jan 21)
Last: dejarouehg

NewsblogSherman: In defense of the blank Hall of Fame ballot
(21 - 9:39pm, Jan 21)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogRobot umpires at home plate moving up to Triple-A for 2022
(14 - 9:28pm, Jan 21)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogEx-Yankees pitcher Sergio Mitre sentenced to prison for 2020 murder of toddler in Mexico
(2 - 6:53pm, Jan 21)
Last: The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV)

NewsblogHow a heart attack led to Hall of Famer Greg Maddux spurning Yankees for Braves
(17 - 5:46pm, Jan 21)
Last: Gold Star - just Gold Star

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Domestic Cups, Congested Fixture Lists and Winter Breaks
(258 - 5:41pm, Jan 21)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogMLB, union stopped blood testing for HGH due to pandemic
(454 - 4:24pm, Jan 21)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogMLB kills Rays’ split-city plan with Montreal
(23 - 3:45pm, Jan 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogJapan's Giants to establish women's baseball team
(5 - 12:11pm, Jan 21)
Last: will839

NewsblogThe oldest player who ever hit in a game
(8 - 12:47am, Jan 21)
Last: kthejoker

NewsblogHow baseball changed forever in 1972: A timeline of MLB's most memorable events, 50 years later
(20 - 8:39pm, Jan 20)
Last: Howie Menckel

Page rendered in 0.6216 seconds
48 querie(s) executed