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Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 2542 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

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   2401. aberg Posted: September 05, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5876965)
Flip flop and fly
   2402. Chokeland Bill Posted: September 05, 2019 at 02:16 PM (#5876976)
WWE has got to a point where they don't have a lot of BAD matches, but they don't really strive for the type of insanely athletic matches that blow away the hardcore fans, such as what we saw in the G1. WWE is very strong in production value, but too often skews toward spectacle over substance (which there's an audience for, but it's not really me). If AEW can just provide an alternative that's a little more competition-focused with straightforward storylines, I think it can be a successful alternative.


The King of the Ring matches have actually been a pretty good showcase of top level wrestling. Elias and Corbin just had their best ever single matches on back to back days. So there is at least some evidence that they realize the in-ring needs to improve. They are getting over guys that were off TV or beaten like a drum a month or two ago, purely through wrestling.

I think AEW is also leaving themselves a bit open right out of the gate, by running a women's title match as the key focus of the pilot but not really having star talent involved. NXT is probably going to throw a Shayna title match up against it (I figure Rea gets added to the announced triple threat and gets the title, otherwise Bianca seems most likely), and will probably have a more impressive match. If the women's title doesn't main event the first AEW show but does the competing NXT show, WWE is still scoring points. In general, the women are where WWE have a pretty big advantage. Even when AEW starts to put on insane Joshi matches, WWE actually has better Joshi and can do the same thing.

AEW's strength is their tags. I think they should have reversed what they are actually doing, and done a tag title match on the debut and a tournament for the women. That way you can have a blow-away tag match in the pilot and develop characters for the women to build up to the title.

I am very curious to see how the draft shakes things up. Becky has been on all of the Smackdown advertisements, I imagine she has to be going over to Fox. Would they really move her there and keep Seth on Raw? Or do they have Seth, Roman, and Brock all on Smackdown? If so, who becomes top face on Raw?

   2403. aberg Posted: September 05, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5876996)
I am very curious to see how the draft shakes things up. Becky has been on all of the Smackdown advertisements, I imagine she has to be going over to Fox. Would they really move her there and keep Seth on Raw? Or do they have Seth, Roman, and Brock all on Smackdown? If so, who becomes top face on Raw?


Matt Riddle. Just kidding. Sort of.
   2404. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 02, 2019 at 11:58 PM (#5885783)
Does AEW think Jack Swagger is a draw? I think I might disagree with that?

NXT had the better show, but of course they tried much harder.
   2405. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2019 at 12:24 AM (#5885784)
when did chris jericho start cosplaying as james storm?
   2406. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2019 at 12:45 AM (#5885785)
Does AEW think Jack Swagger is a draw? I think I might disagree with that?
i think you misspelled jack thwagger.
   2407. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2019 at 12:51 AM (#5885787)
i think the biggest strength AEW has going for it is that they can get people like me to consider watching. the last time i paid any amount of meaningful attention to WWE was when shinsuke nakamura debuted in NXT. before that, it was when CM punk threw a tantrum to get his face on an ice cream bar.

all AEW had to do was exist.
   2408. aberg Posted: October 03, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5885983)
NXT was better than AEW last night. They're character/storyline stuff was better, but they have had way more time to lay the groundwork there. AEW gets a pass on that for now. I was surprised how much better the wreslting on NXT was. Some of it was putting so many top guys in matches, but AEW pretty much did the same thing. Cody, Jericho, Bucks, Omega, Pac, Hangman all had matches. Lucha Bros, Moxley, Hager (who I still really like), Goldy were all involved in physicality. They're going to need to build depth because you can't have everybody on your roster that involved every week and stay interesting.

By contrast, NXT didn't have Kushida, Walter, Lee, Dijak on screen at all. Dream only did a promo. None of the 205 guys were featured this week and seem like a regular feature going forward. Balor and Ciampa were only on enough to tease.
   2409. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 03, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5886058)
AEW felt more like a main roster WWE show, in both good (the arena and overall presentation) and bad ways. Both the women's title match and the main event had obvious DQs that didn't happen. Like what is Nyla's motivation with the chairs? How is Moxley's attack not a DQ? If things are supposed to be more sportlike, the rules need to matter. Also, posting the match records and then trying to play off the 0-2 Nyla Rose as dominant doesn't really work. Some kinks to work out.

NXT needs to get out of Full Sail, it's pretty obvious now. If you switched the venues last night, things would look kinda ugly for AEW.
   2410. aberg Posted: October 03, 2019 at 05:16 PM (#5886076)
Well, strongly against my expectations, AEW blew NXT out of the water in ratings. 1.4m to just under 900k. I would've guessed that AEW would do something like 750k. 1.4m is within shouting distance of a bad episode of SD. I guess there's more of an appetite for it than I would've guessed.

I strongly agree with 2409 that the run-ins, constant low-blows, cheating, etc were overdone. That stuff is fine, but each thing should happen once every few weeks or months, not several times in a show.
   2411. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 03, 2019 at 11:38 PM (#5886304)
Meltzer did a ratings break down. Apparently AEW didn't really take that many viewers from NXT, but brought in mostly a new audience. NXT actually gained viewers from 18-49 over last week, but lost viewers 50+ to baseball.

That almost seems like the strange reliance on WWE/WCW nostalgia could backfire, but it's interesting that there seems to be a sizable untapped audience.
   2412. rconn23 Posted: October 04, 2019 at 03:03 AM (#5886329)
AEW doubled NXT in the 18-49 demo.

NXT had better matches, sure. They also blew their highest profile match the first week. Riddle/Cole is about the best thing they can offer. I guess Balor/Cole can be a bigger draw but it won't be the quality of Cole/Riddle.

I'm not sure that AEW doesn't already have more compelling characters and potential storylines than NXT/WWE. MJF is what the Miz wishes he could be. He has the potential to be a Piper-level heal and he's only 23. Pac comes across as a badass top guy in AEW. Vince presented him as colorless when he was Neville. Moxley has already shown way more character and aggression than he ever did when he was Ambrose.

Cody has made himself into a huge main event star. I had never been the biggest fan of his in the ring, but his stuff in AEW so far as come across as the most compelling. He seems to have a huge ceiling as either a babyface or heel.

I think NXT needs to get out of Full Sail. It makes the show seem little league. I don't care how good the wrestling is. I know they are billing NXT now as really a separate brand now, but it still comes across as a developmental territory in that building.

   2413. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 06, 2019 at 10:51 PM (#5887234)
Didn't see tonight's WWE Hell in a Cell show, but a friend of mine who watches everything emailed me. After the poorly-booked ending to tonight's Rollins-Fiend main event-- a disqualification in a "No DQ" match-- the crowd was chanting "AEW, AEW."

Not having seen it occur live, there's no way I'll ever get to hear the chant in any replay clips ever.
   2414. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 06, 2019 at 11:55 PM (#5887248)
Didn't see tonight's WWE Hell in a Cell show, but a friend of mine who watches everything emailed me. After the poorly-booked ending to tonight's Rollins-Fiend main event-- a disqualification in a "No DQ" match-- the crowd was chanting "AEW, AEW."

Not having seen it occur live, there's no way I'll ever get to hear the chant in any replay clips ever.
big 579i66y cool's got you covered.
   2415. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 07, 2019 at 12:46 AM (#5887255)
I am utterly baffled even contemplating the thought process that goes into coming up with that main event finish.

I'll note that in the most important week of US professional wrestling in quite a long time, Sasha Banks probably had the best match. She'll never to get actually win one of those matches, she's clearly just there to make the chosen few look good. It's a shame that she spent most of the past 2-3 years not even allowed to do that.
   2416. aberg Posted: October 07, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5887325)
FWIW, the ending was a ref stoppage, not a DQ. The announcers did not make that clear.
   2417. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 07, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5887371)
Ehhhhhh. Considering they released a poll a day or two before that posited DQ as a possible finish, I'm going to say that's a retcon in response to the outcry.
   2418. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 10, 2019 at 12:04 AM (#5888615)
I thought both shows were better this weak. More character stuff to go with the wrestling.
   2419. Chokeland Bill Posted: October 11, 2019 at 10:14 PM (#5889590)
They accidentally spoiled the draft order in the pools list they posted yesterday. Good sign that they have their act together.
   2420. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: January 08, 2020 at 08:58 AM (#5913778)
I'm just commenting on this thread so it doesn't archive. Lots going on in wrestling right now with WWE, AEW & New Japan. I hate to see AXS move away from New Japan. A few things I'm excited or underwhelmed about:
I'm glad to see Drew McIntyre get some time on the mic to get himself over, I'm happy to finally see Liv Morgan back but disappointed she's in a program with Lana who I think is one of the weakest performers, MJF has tons of potential but having Cody feud with a bunch of other people is taking the steam out of the feud, interesting to see the Dark Order get de-pushed after all the online flack, Jericho/Moxley should be a better version of an old WWE feud, Lynch/Asuka should be a hotter angle than it is so far, it'll be interesting to see where they go with Rumble & Mania.
   2421. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: March 03, 2020 at 11:18 PM (#5927887)
Poor Ricochet, he loses to Lesnar in a one sided match at Super Showdown & then jobs out to the immortal Riddick Moss for the prestigious 24/7 title.
   2422. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 04, 2020 at 02:46 AM (#5927895)
The WWE front office must be sending another one of their petty and counterproductive "messages." Maybe Ricochet failed to hold the elevator door for Road Dogg Jesse James one day.
   2423. manchestermets Posted: March 04, 2020 at 04:44 AM (#5927898)
I'm really enjoying AEW right now. The PPV at the weekend was fantastic, and generally they're blowing WWE away for me. Raw just seems to be a load of indistinguishable guys with long hair and beards saying and doing the same things every week. AEW are supposedly planning at least one UK event this year and I'm super hyped for it.

Away from US stuff, I was at Ospreay v Sabre for the UK promotion Revolution Pro's title belt, which was fantastic. I'm watching more wrestling at the moment than I have for years, and not much of it is WWE.
   2424. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: March 04, 2020 at 09:09 AM (#5927913)
Maybe Ricochet failed to hold the elevator door for Road Dogg Jesse James one day.

I was thinking maybe he accidentally ran over Stephanie's dog

I also watched the AEW ppv. Aside from the matches all running a few minutes too long, it was excellent. The card was stacked. I'm impressed with AEW.

Dark Side of the Ring returns to Viceland on March 24
Here's an excerpt from Variety :
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/dark-side-of-the-ring-season-2-premiere-date-chris-benoit-vice-1203521655/

Season 2 of the show, which goes behind the scenes of some of the most controversial stories in pro wrestling, will debut on March 24 at 9 p.m. ET/PT. The two-hour season premiere will delve into the story of Chris Benoit, who killed his wife, Nancy, and son, Daniel, in 2007 before committing suicide. The episode will feature interview’s with Benoit’s family and friends, including his other son, David, and Sandra Toffoloni, Nancy Benoit’s sister.

The season will also feature episodes on: the murder of Dino Bravo; the “Brawl for All” tournament that led to career-ending injuries; the career of ECW star New Jack; David Schultz’s violent run-in with a 20/20 reporter; the death of Nancy Argentino, Jimmy Snuka’s girlfirend; the story of tag team wrestling legends Hawk and Animal; Herb Abrams’ attempt to build a wrestling empire; and the story of Owen Hart’s death during a WWE pay-per-view.


   2425. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 04, 2020 at 05:33 PM (#5928190)
I hope the Benoit episode includes interviews with the dogs in the enclosed pool area.


Herb Abrams’ attempt to build a wrestling empire


Abrams is easily the LaToya Jackson or the Hawkeye of that list of show topics. Today, a lone PPV with virtually no buy rate or paid attendance for a promotion on an obscure cable sub-network... tomorrow, a wrestling empire!


Also, another vote for AEW as the most interesting show going. Although Old Man Randy Orton is doing some of his best "conflicted sadism" work in his Edge storyline.
   2426. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 04, 2020 at 06:04 PM (#5928197)
   2427. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: March 04, 2020 at 06:26 PM (#5928199)
the career of ECW star New Jack
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
   2428. manchestermets Posted: March 16, 2020 at 03:57 PM (#5931093)
If you're stuck in quarantine WrestleTalk are currently livestreaming a closed doors indie UK show - have a look and maybe chip in for indie wrestlers hit by the shutdown?

Edit: should mention that the main event is Will Ospreay v Bea Priestley, so not just unknowns.
   2429. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 17, 2020 at 05:36 AM (#5931284)
Due to the virus, Wrestlemania is now going to take place in an empty training facility with no fans in attendance.

But this is WWE, so they'll still announce the crowd as a record-breaking 87,665.
   2430. aberg Posted: March 17, 2020 at 02:33 PM (#5931447)
Due to the virus, Wrestlemania is now going to take place in an empty training facility with no fans in attendance.


They will shave an hour off the show on ring entrances alone.
   2431. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 17, 2020 at 02:49 PM (#5931450)
So, Wrestlemania will be down to 9 hours this year?
   2432. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 05, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5948071)
Has anybody been watching Dark Side of the Ring on Viceland?
   2433. Hot Wheeling American Posted: May 05, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5948077)
The Brawl for All episodes was probably as light as it gets for the show (no murder), but I dug it for a nostalgia kick. Have been avoiding the Benoit two-parter. Life is depressing enough, Vice TV!!
   2434. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 05, 2020 at 05:00 PM (#5948086)
I think I enjoyed the Brawl for All episode the most. The Benoit two-parter was well done.
I liked Dino Bravo's episode even though the subtitles too often matched the background & were tough to read


The only episode they've done in the two seasons that was kinda meh was the New Jack one which is pretty much just that he's out of control.
   2435. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: May 05, 2020 at 09:04 PM (#5948204)
The only episode they've done in the two seasons that was kinda meh was the New Jack one which is pretty much just that he's out of control.
i was entertained.

the most ###### up thing was how everyone just shrugged when they heard explanations for why new jack did...whatever.

jim cornette on new jack beating a 17 year old half to death because the guy blew him off pre-match: "yeah, that'd do it".
d-lo brown, moments before watching new jack stab a guy in the neck between 9 and 16 times: "is he shooting on jack ...oh, that is not going to end well"
the sandman on new jack tasing vic grimes, then throwing him off a 30' scaffold: "i was with him when he bought the taser. he told me he was gonna do it."


ah, good times.
The Brawl for All episodes was probably as light as it gets for the show (no murder), but I dug it for a nostalgia kick. Have been avoiding the Benoit two-parter. Life is depressing enough, Vice TV!!
fun fact:

his son is trying to get into wrestling...with the ring name "chris benoit jr."


that application is going right into WWE's shredder.
   2436. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 02, 2020 at 11:07 PM (#5955038)
AEW wrestlers as fans >>> WWE performance center/NXT wrestlers as fans
   2437. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 02, 2020 at 11:12 PM (#5955040)
There's something really dead about WWE right now, not even taking into account the silent void they're performing in. Major lull in the characters and the booking. AEW is substantially more entertaining at the moment.
   2438. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 02, 2020 at 11:17 PM (#5955041)
I agree with that. AEW is a much fresher product right now. It's too bad Britt Baker got hurt, she's much better as a heel but she was still on tv last week which was good.
   2439. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 18, 2020 at 11:36 PM (#5958199)
so .... jim cornette ....
   2440. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: August 04, 2020 at 07:45 PM (#5967905)
The disaster that was Raw Underground pretty much sums up the wrestling business right now...
   2441. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: August 31, 2020 at 08:30 AM (#5973304)
This poor, forgotten thread kinda sums up the downturn the wrestling business is going through right now

Retribution ho-hum, RAW Underground um ok

Roman Reigns is a Paul Heyman guy. I expect him to cut a Taz-like you didn't care about me when I was gone promo on the fans. Hopefully he changes up his moves set

AEW is playing the long game with the Dork Order

I expect Otis to get obliterated and Big E to get the Wrestlemania shot
   2442. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 06, 2020 at 09:44 PM (#5987631)
Chris Jericho @IAmJericho
Im not a political person, but is it strange to anybody else, that for the first time ever, we have to wait a day...2 days...5 days...10 days...to find out who won the the presidential race?
Lance Storm @LanceStorm
The 2000 election took a month to finally be decided. Not exactly the first time ever. I cut promos about this in WCW.
   2443. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 07, 2020 at 11:01 AM (#5987660)
I don't know for certain since I wasn't there, but I'm going to guess that for at least the first couple dozen presidential elections that CNN wasn't able to call a winner on election night.
   2444. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 27, 2020 at 11:17 AM (#5996103)
Bully Ray @bullyray5150
Its Sunday ... you know what that means.

#RIPBrodieLee

We lost a good brother.


(i...have no idea what that means)
   2445. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 30, 2020 at 03:24 PM (#5996660)
If you’re a wrestling fan of my generation, your fandom is marked by obituaries; moments of sadness and terror and existential dilemma. The majority of them, even the tragic ones, didn’t give me that same shock that Owen’s death did. Maybe I was inured to it. To a large extent there was an otherness to them, even as they became recurrent. The comings and goings of wrestlers from our televisions throughout our lives made it feel like they continued to exist in some vague faraway territory, slugging on even after their deaths. But there are some moments when the shock climbs up onto my shoulders again. This Saturday was one of them, when word came down about Jon Huber’s death. He was 41 years old, in the prime of his career and, more importantly, his life.
...
I know now there’s nothing more remarkable, more heroic, than the way Jon Huber lived his life, and the way he never had to enter the wrestling ring to accomplish it. You can see it in every tribute written about him, like the one by his old partner Erick Redbeard (formerly Erick Rowan): “He would always look forward to getting home to his family. After every loop he would say to me, ‘Goodbye forever,’ because he would want his one or two days with them, to feel like forever.”

   2446. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: April 14, 2021 at 08:28 AM (#6013342)
First post on this thread for the year. Ouch. Shows you what a rough period wrestling is going through.
There’s lots of cool wrestling shows coming up though:

Dark Side of the Ring Season 3 starts on May 6. The first episode is about Brian Pillman. Later episodes focus on Collision in Korea, Bruiser Bedlam, Dynamite Kid & The Ultimate Warrior. They’ll be 14 episodes this season

Also, A&E has two wrestling programs: WWE’s Most Wanted Treasures will be on at 10pm EST on Sundays & their biography series will profile wwe legends & will be on sundays at 8pm EST

A&E Network and WWE Studios are giving fans the ultimate ringside seat in an all-new Sunday night programming partnership, with eight original two-hour documentaries showcasing the stories behind some of the most memorable WWE Superstars including Stone Cold Steve Austin®, "Macho Man" Randy Savage®, "Rowdy" Roddy Piper™, Booker T®, Shawn Michaels®, Bret Hart, Mick Foley and Ultimate Warrior. Each special will air weekly at 8pm ET/PT, starting with "Stone Cold" Steve Austin on Sunday, April 18. #WWEonAE​​​
   2447. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 04, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6016919)
Dark Side of the Ring Season 3 starts on May 6. The season is split into two parts. First episode focuses on Brian Pillman

Here’s a list of the subjects for season 3’s episodes
Brian Pillman two part show
Collision in Korea 1995 WCW/New Japan show
Ultimate Warrior
Chris Kanyon
Luna Vachon
Bruiser Bedlam
Dynamite Kid
WWF Steroid Trial
Plane Ride From Hell
Nick Gage
FMW
XPW
Grizzly Smith

The writers of the series said they may tackle Chris Adams & the Freebirds for future episodes since they have been picked up for a fourth season
   2448. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: May 08, 2021 at 08:20 PM (#6017860)
The writers of the series said they may tackle Chris Adams & the Freebirds for future episodes since they have been picked up for a fourth season

i think ESPN's original 30 for 30 is a reasonable point of comparison for this series, so i wouldn't mind if they leaned a little less into "the dark side" angle of this and put together a few lighthearted episodes to help stretch the material out.
   2449. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: May 17, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6019267)
The match—if you can even call it one—consisted of Lane throwing a few stiff punches at New Jack, who then pulled out what he called a “Wolverine-type claw” and began stabbing his opponent. New Jack even cut his own arm so deeply he had to go to the hospital.

The story, like Erich Kulas’s before it, had a few additional twists and turns. This time, New Jack was arrested and his fans raised money to pay his bail, only to have Lane drop the charges in exchange for New Jack promising to train and perhaps even feud with him in the future. New Jack, more interested in survival and self-respect than anything else, swerved everyone: He didn’t lift a finger to train Lane, and he pocketed the money that the fans gave him for bail. “It was some of the easiest money I’d ever made,” he recalled.


   2450. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: July 31, 2021 at 11:03 PM (#6031980)
this is a thing that happened:

Patches Chance @patcheschance
Still losing my mind over Nick Gage with the pizza cutter then DOMINOS WITH THE PIZZA CUTTER?! #AEWDynamite
https://twitter.com/patcheschance/status/1420569568901218304



and how did dominos feel about that? not great, bob.
   2451. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: August 14, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6034379)
Interesting times in wrestling these days with the WWE cuts & all the rumored AEW signings. It will be interesting to see if AEW can capitalize on the momentum over the next few months

And yes Domino’s was definitely not a fan of the Nick Gage pizza cutter spot :-0
   2452. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 31, 2021 at 12:21 AM (#6050298)
   2453. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 12, 2021 at 06:44 PM (#6052742)
For most of my life, I thought I was crazy.

Nuts. Insane. Psychotic. Violent. Sick.

“Oh, come on, Eddie. You’re bullshitting. This is a work. We get it. It’s part of the character.”

My guy, you really don’t understand. I’ve been out of my mind since before I can remember.

...
To be honest with you, the only thing that kept me from getting depressed was wrestling. I either had to be fighting in the neighborhood, or sitting at home watching a match. Otherwise, I’d fall into a depression. Back then, I didn’t even have the words for it. I was trying to be such a hard-ass that I didn’t want to hear about no mental health, no therapists, no feelings.

“Depression? The f*ck is a depression?”
...
I was sick. I hated myself. I would sit at home drinking whiskey, watching guys who I’d come up with in the indies wrestling on national TV in the big promotions, and I’d just sit and stew until I blew up. I’d punch holes in the walls. I’d smash bottles. I was a danger to myself and others. One week, I ended up going on a bender that was so bad that I just kind of disappeared. I was supposed to be doing shows and I just didn’t show up. I smashed my cell phone and no one could get ahold of me. People were scared that I was dead. I woke up one afternoon and there were just beer bottles smashed everywhere in my apartment.


this is great ####.
   2454. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 15, 2021 at 04:07 PM (#6053002)
Agreed. The Eddie Kingston Players Tribune is an excellent read
   2455. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 15, 2021 at 04:08 PM (#6053004)
https://twitter.com/JoeSetyon/status/1460103183435325445

The Mets are hiring an Associate Analyst in Baseball Analytics

Knowledge of baseball not required


Maybe they should hire the WWE comedy writers
   2456. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 14, 2021 at 02:10 PM (#6057348)
ROH held its “Final Battle” pay per view on Saturday night, and while the promotion has made noise about reorganizing and restarting in 2022, it seems likely that it has run its final show. In honor (pun intended) of that potential farewell, here is a list of (some of) the greatest (and/or most significant, for a variety of reasons) matches in the company’s 20-year history (in one man’s humble opinion).
...
Homicide vs. Steve Corino, 8/16/03
My pick for the greatest match in the promotion’s history, this wasn’t athleticism, workrate, and flashy action—this was an ugly, bloody, violent fight, much more reminiscent of classic 1980s territorial wrestling brawls then the athletic wrestling ROH is known for. By the end of this match both men and the entire ring mat were covered in claret, Corino had a broken eardrum, and Homicide had driven himself full force into the guardrail

   2457. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 12:03 AM (#6094934)
zack @sohosquad

ace steel got on national tv for the first time with his best friend, dropped the #### word on tv in one of the best promos in aew history, knocked out nick jackson with a chair and might get fired from the company

all in the span of a single week
   2458. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 12:12 AM (#6094938)
Punk also went after Adam Page, the Young Bucks, and Kenny Omega. “What did I ever do in this world to get to deserve an empty-headed, ####### dumb #### like ‘Hangman’ Adam Page to go out on national television and ####### go into business for himself,” Punk asked. “For what? What did I ever do? I didn’t do a ####### thing!”
...
Punk continued by saying, “There’s people who call themselves EVPs that should have ####### known better. This #### was none of their business. I understand sticking up for your ####### friends. I ####### get it. I stuck up for that guy [Colton] more than anybody. I paid his bills until I didn’t and it was my decision not to. When somebody [Page] who hasn’t done a damn thing in this business jeopardizes the first million-dollar house that this company has ever drawn off of my back and goes on national television and does that, it’s a disgrace to this industry. It’s a disgrace to this company. Now, we’re far beyond apologies. I gave him a ####### chance. It did not get handled and you saw what I had to do, which is very regrettable, lowering myself to his ####### level, but that’s where we’re at right now.”
...
Punk also verbally attacked Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks during his Sunday comments: “Now, it’s 2022. I haven’t been friends with this guy since at least 2014, late 2013, and the fact that I have to sit up here because we have irresponsible people who call themselves EVPs yet they couldn’t ####### manage a Target and they spread lies and bullshit and put into the media that I got somebody fired when I have #### all to do with him. I want nothing to do with him. I do not care where he works or where he doesn’t work, where he eats, where he sleeps. The fact that I have to get up here and do this in 2022 is ####### embarrassing.”
   2459. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 12:17 AM (#6094939)
After what could have been a new high in one of the most eventful wrestling careers of the 21st century—winning his company’s world title at a pay-per-view in his hometown of Chicago—All Elite Wrestling’s CM Punk decided instead to light a match inside a promotion with a gas leak. And what happened after his inflammatory press conference, though the details still remain in dispute, turned what could have been a celebratory weekend into the most troubled in AEW’s young history.
Later on in the post-show scrum, after Punk was gone, those gathered saw a running security guard. According to multiple reports, he was moving toward an altercation between Punk and his old friend/AEW producer Ace Steel on one side and the Young Bucks and another top AEW star in Kenny Omega, who’ve long been associated with Adam Page, on the other. There’s disagreement on who started the fight, but consensus that Punk punched Matt Jackson and Steel threw a chair at Nick Jackson, bit Omega, and pulled his hair.
   2460. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 12:26 AM (#6094940)
btw, eric bischoff, of all ####### people, had the most rational take on this whole thing, imo:


"[tony khan] is paying cm punk a fortune, and cm punk is cutting his balls off."

"if there was money in it, if it was part of a story, have at it [...]. if not? if punk was just venting his spleen? whew, i feel bad for tony."
   2461. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 01:38 AM (#6094943)
as for what i think...

i've been a huge fan of cm punk for nearly 2 decades at this point, so i'm predisposed to backing him/his side in any situation like this.


this is a "work". not all of it, but enough of it. alot more than anyone thinks. tony khan was in on it*; the EVPs weren't**. the #### that happened after the "scrum", well, there's a reason why noone's posting pictures on twitter or pressing charges with the CPD.

punk is a redass, sure, but he usually puts what's good for business ahead of everything else. but how could this possibly be good for business? well, check the ratings tomorrow night, for one. for two, that locker room isn't going to be divided anymore. the "elite" will still have their issues coming and going, but i doubt you'll see many wrestlers rushing to stand with punk on this. and the ones that do? well, there's your faction right there. ftr, wardlow, tazz, starks, hobbs, ace steel, the briscoes, eddie kingston, or any combination thereof.




* /ish; the guy can't be trusted as an actor, so i doubt he was privy to any of the particulars; but he knew that cm punk was going to drop another pipe bomb. but unlike vince, tony wasn't smart enough to have the kill switch at his side.

** my money would be on the "brawl" that everyone's clutching their pearls over being "real", but the quiet surrounding it, is basically the result of punk having to beat some sense into the EVPs about how to do ####### business.



but i could be wrong.
   2462. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 07, 2022 at 10:01 AM (#6094983)
Haha somebody finally posted in the Wrestling OT thread!
I support Punk more than the Elite but I can appreciate all types of wrestling. I prefer guys like Punk & FTR who have more compelling storylines & wrestle a more hard hitting style. The Bucks & Kenny are more acrobatic which is entertaining in a different way but the thigh slaps are way too obvious plus their storylines are like something out of middle school. That said, I hope Tony Khan can get these guys to work together because even if you hate your opponent, when there’s real animosity there’s money to be made.
   2463. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 11:38 AM (#6095014)
Haha somebody finally posted in the Wrestling OT thread!

fun fact:

we're the only two people who have posted in this thread for nearly two years.
   2464. Scott Lange Posted: September 07, 2022 at 12:34 PM (#6095024)
I was out of wrestling for 15 years out of general disgust with Vince/WWE. Punk made me give it another chance last year, but the wrestlers like MJF, Orange Cassidy, Danhausen, and others really pulled me in. Even Jericho, with stuff from the pandemic like the feud with the drone and the Broadway number with MJF, really grabbed me. And I have enjoyed the more wrestling-based wrestlers as well, as long as they told compelling stories (Eddie Kingston, FTR, etc.) I felt like there was finally a wrestling show I could enjoy without worrying that it was going to disgust and/or embarass me all the time.

But the wheels certainly seem to be coming off. Much like the MJF drama from the last PPV cycle, whether or not it's a work, it's distracting from the quality stories/performances where the attention should be (Wardlow then, MJF's return now). I want to see people I can root for playing characters I love rooting either for or against. I don't want it all pushed to the side in favor of drama from people sabotaging the show. It's like turning on Better Call Saul and seeing Bob Odenkirk turn to the camera and complain about what a jerk Giancarlo Esposito is. It's just embarassing and no fun and I hope it stops but I fear it won't.

And I guess that's 3 people.
   2465. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 07, 2022 at 12:58 PM (#6095028)
I figured 57i66135 & myself had been the only ones to comment for a while but I wouldn’t have guessed it had been 2 years since someone else commented but I’m glad to see Scott Lange join in. Off the top of my head, I remember Dock Ellis on LSD, RJ in TO, & aberg commenting regularly in the past. I believe I once traced the WWE brand split as when this thread started to lose traction

   2466. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 07, 2022 at 01:10 PM (#6095030)
Agreed with all of 2464. I was an earlier adopter of AEW, when Dynamite premiered. Even dropped $50 on several PPVs. It's been a nice three years of being able to follow an alternative pro wrestling product and they've come a long way from, like Shawn Spears v. Joey Janela on PPV (although Jericho remains...everywhere on programming). But TK seems like he's really lost the thread. Bloated PPVs, inconsistent appearances by talent (breaks are good...having wrestlers disappear while in a story, not so much), the ROH acquisition and featuring that heavily on AEW television...and that's just on-air stuff, without having to get into communication, discipline, etc. we hear about.

I'd consider myself a Punk guy, but even if he's correct on some of the stuff he's whining about...that kind of whining is mostly just dispiriting. It was fresh (to most) 8-11 years ago when going against the stale monopoly. But a guy in his mid-40s not being able to just shut up...bleh.

I'll continue to record Dynamite and catch up with it by the weekend, but I haven't looked at Rampage in months, and if TK really leans into the work/shoot stuff...more bleh.
   2467. RJ in TO Posted: September 07, 2022 at 01:17 PM (#6095032)
this is a "work". not all of it, but enough of it.
If it is a work, it is a stupid work. The PPV featured a great match between The Acclaimed and Swerve in his Glory, and no one has said anything about it at all, because the Punk thing has killed all attention. The same thing goes with MJF's return, which was a great moment to cap off a very good show - everyone should be focused on that, and instead Punk's words have ensured no one gives a #### about that either.

A common complaint about AEW has been about how they really haven't elevated anyone yet, who wasn't one of the EVPs, or a former WWE headliner. They had a chance to do so here, and if this is a work, they've blown that too.
   2468. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: September 07, 2022 at 03:14 PM (#6095060)
I've checked out AEW a few times since my favorite wrestler (Jericho) is still hanging around. My only impression is that it isn't drastically different from WWE, or at least the WWE I remember. I guess that's a pretty good, successful model for them to follow.
   2469. manchestermets Posted: September 07, 2022 at 04:32 PM (#6095078)
None of it's a work, and Punk is a whiny over-sensitive dick who should be fired for his conduct at the press conference no matter what followed it. Going into business for himself like that is far worse than going into business for himself in the ring.
   2470. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 07:42 PM (#6095129)
I felt like there was finally a wrestling show I could enjoy without worrying that it was going to disgust and/or embarass me all the time.
"69 me, don"
If it is a work, it is a stupid work
you're not wrong.
The PPV featured a great match between The Acclaimed and Swerve in his Glory, and no one has said anything about it at all, because the Punk thing has killed all attention. The same thing goes with MJF's return, which was a great moment to cap off a very good show - everyone should be focused on that, and instead Punk's words have ensured no one gives a #### about that either.

the best example of AEW's booking issues was stepping all over the debut of adam page, just to bring out brian danielson 3 minutes later, all of which happened about 10 days after cm punk debuted. instead of spacing things out and making sure everyone got over, tony khan just snorted a bottle of adderall and yelled \"#### it; cut 'em up".
wrestlers like MJF, Orange Cassidy, Danhausen, and others really pulled me in
i've never really "gotten" MJF. my first impression of him was joel gertner buffalo bill'ing the miz to do a cm punk impression.

those other two are professional wrestlers in just about the same way that KFC is an animal rights foundation.
   2471. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 07:52 PM (#6095131)
what i want to see by the end of tonight:

-- EVP's demoted (real).
-- william regal (real) and cm punk (kayfabe) promoted to EVP.
-- tony khan throws the "elite" under the bus and backs punk 100%, turning himself heel in the process.
-- cm punk sells out, goes full corporate hypocrite, ending the night in the middle of the ring, title on his shoulder, wearing a suit and tie, yukking it up with tony khan, FTR and wardlow.


that's the angle that makes money, imo.
   2472. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 08:00 PM (#6095132)
a few other random thoughts that built up over the last year:

-- brian danielson should never have turned face to join regal and moxley. he was the best heel in the business for ~3 weeks, and they cut him off at the knees for no reason, with no payoff.

-- cm punk should never have won the title before turning heel. face punk was fun for a few weeks, but after that, heel punk is 10,000x more compelling.

-- cm punk should have taken ownership of rampage when he came into AEW. that should have been his show, with his people (MJF, FTR, darby allen, adam cole, roderick strong, lethal, claudio, wardlow, hobbs, starks, the acclaimed, etc.) getting airtime and getting pushed, and it should have been given the air to develop into a distinctly different style/brand of wrestling, instead of languishing (on national ####### television) as some red-headed step-mule that noone cares about.
   2473. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 08:02 PM (#6095133)
of course, this show starts with a ####### pre-tape.


get in the ####### ring and talk to the ####### people, coward.
   2474. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 08:06 PM (#6095134)
i've never really "gotten" MJF. my first impression of him was joel gertner buffalo bill'ing the miz to do a cm punk impression.

and he just came out and said it: cMJF
   2475. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 07, 2022 at 08:12 PM (#6095138)
"you are absolutely full of ... crap"


and that ends tonight's liveblog. i'm noping out.
   2476. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 08, 2022 at 11:52 PM (#6095376)
Kenny Olivier @WhoIsDonStevens
modern day Rock vs Austin

https://twitter.com/WhoIsDonStevens/status/1567992582055292928
   2477. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 08, 2022 at 11:54 PM (#6095377)
AEW Botches @aewbotches
With all the traction #AEW seemingly garnered on SM after the scrum...this week's #AEWDynamite viewership # is downright bad, when compared to same week last year, it's tragic!

09.08.2021- 1,319,000
09.07.2022- 1,035,000 (-21%)

"If you are not growing, you are dying"- Shad Khan
   2478. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 10, 2022 at 12:03 AM (#6095564)
i still can't get over that shitshow from AEW on wednesday night.


dutch mantell talking sense and hitting it spot on here. i still can't believe how quickly TNA just killed the heat they could have had.

"tony khan doing a sitdown made it look less serious than it was"
"they treated it like it wasn't a big deal"
"this was one of the biggest pr opportunities they've ever had, and [...tony] just wanted to get past it."
"it was so well laid out, and it could have been laid out by accident, [...] how could you miss?"
"[punk] may have closed one door, but he opened four others; [...]well, they're closed now."
"it has died down quite a bit already"
"the more negative you are, the more clickbait you're gonna get"


and after being prodded a few times about how he would handle things behind the scenes:
"[tony khan] needs to suspend the bucks without pay for 6 months. punk, too. [...you] can just fire [ace steel]."


and lastly, from the benignly foreign cohost:
"cm punk was the absolute dirt worst fighter in UFC history, and he could still take, with one arm, matt buck, and it was 3 on 1."
   2479. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 10, 2022 at 12:18 AM (#6095566)
and for anyone who wants to clutch pearls over a backstage fight between wrestlers, as if that's not what professional wrestling has been for decades, let me throw you one little nugget of background:


"sabu saved cm punk's career, because i was gonna ####### kill him."


and for a more neutral pov:
"punk slaps ted; ted grabs punk and starts whaling on his face."
   2480. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 11, 2022 at 12:02 PM (#6095749)
Nice to see this thread have some life breathed back into it after being dormant for so long.
57i66135 sent some pretty good links
@WhoIsDonStevens made funny clip of Daniel Garcia having Wheeler Yuta in a submission hold set to a Marvin Gaye song
https://twitter.com/WhoIsDonStevens/status/1568309155102101505?cxt=HHwWgsDU_cC34MMrAAAA
   2481. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 11, 2022 at 01:17 PM (#6095753)
Nice to see this thread have some life breathed back into it after being dormant for so long.
eh, this thread is still mostly just me pissing vinegar into the wind, though.


even now, i'm still pissed off about wednesday's show. the complete absence of carny instinct from tony khan is a death knell for AEW. he had this thing and it was ####### golden, and he just gave it up for nothing. he didn't put anyone over; he didn't pop a rating; he didn't steal a PPV main event off of it; he didn't even steal a wednesday night main event off of it. it's a ####### embarrassment to the history of great carny bullshitters that turned professional wrestling into a billion dollar business. the guy just doesn't ####### get it, and he's never going to, because the money doesn't matter to him.

a story, in two acts:
Tony Khan @TonyKhan
Last night’s #AEWDynamite was also one of my favorite shows we’ve ever done. I’m so glad to keep the recent ratings hot streaks going & best of all to have a great Wednesday night wrestling show for the fans

I’m excited for #AEWRampage, I *promise* you a great show tomorrow too!

Alfred Konuwa @ThisIsNasty
TRIGGER WARNING
#AEWRampage Fast Nationals!

P2+: 393K - [down] 15% vs. last week & [down] 41% vs. last year

18-49: 163K - [down] 19% vs. last week & [down] 53% vs. last year

Internet backstage drama added 0 to TV ratings this week for anyone who thinks they should turn this into an angle.
   2482. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 11, 2022 at 01:34 PM (#6095756)
57i66135 you would know better than me so I’ll ask-Do you think Tony Khan glazed over all the backstage stuff on last week’s dynamite because he’s afraid he’ll lose a potential tv deal or sponsors? I agree with you, I think it’s a missed opportunity to capitalize on all the craziness. I was surprised that the dynamite crowd wasn’t chanting “We want Punk” or “We want the Elite” or something like that. The crowd was pretty dead for the Danielson/Page match
   2483. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 11, 2022 at 02:51 PM (#6095761)
57i66135 you would know better than me so I’ll ask-Do you think Tony Khan glazed over all the backstage stuff on last week’s dynamite because he’s afraid he’ll lose a potential tv deal or sponsors?
no; that stuff can be massaged behind the scenes. if there are ongoing legal implications, that might be a reason to cool things down, but even then, it wasn't necessary to douse the entire arena in flame retardant.

AEW is almost certainly going to lose their TBS/TNT TV deal because time warner/discovery's vulture capitalist management is strip mining the company, so i'm sure that's a big stressor for tony khan right now (despite that not necessarily being his/AEW's fault, other than the fact that they haven't made themselves indispensable). on the one hand, AEW's core audience is strong enough that they won't have any problems staying on cable TV. but on the other, if they continue going at this rate, they might wind up like TNA: airing on destination america or POP.


(i could be completely wrong about this, btw. shad khan is a legit billionaire (as opposed to a more common debt-ridden paper billionaire), and that kind of money might allow AEW to grease enough wheels to stay relevant)
I was surprised that the dynamite crowd wasn’t chanting “We want Punk” or “We want the Elite” or something like that.
cm punk showed his full ass to the world; why would any crowd cheer to see more of that? noone cheers for heels.

and the "elite" has had x-pac/go away heat since around the time they lost to FTR and refused to do/drop a rubber match. that opened people's eyes up to how they use their positions as EVPs to bury other, better wrestlers, and that's a hard reputation to live down. plus, even if you like the "elite", i'm sure you've seen more than enough of them.
The crowd was pretty dead for the Danielson/Page match
it wasn't even the main event.

i'm sure the audience was waiting/hoping for some other shoe to drop on the punk/elite drama, and when people expect big, earth-shaking fireworks, they're not gonna pop for a damn sparkler.
   2484. manchestermets Posted: September 11, 2022 at 04:08 PM (#6095771)
and the "elite" has had x-pac/go away heat since around the time they lost to FTR and refused to do/drop a rubber match. that opened people's eyes up to how they use their positions as EVPs to bury other, better wrestlers


No part of this is true, from the nonsensical go-away heat part (they get cheered like crazy, and have done throughout the heel run) to the "refused to lose to FTR" part, which is pure Cornette-based speculation. The Bucks have regularly put teams over.
   2485. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 11, 2022 at 04:37 PM (#6095773)
we're the only two people who have posted in this thread for nearly two years.

I continue to lurk here and have kept this thread in my rather small number of site bookmarks. Could still talk/read about the territory days for hours, but haven't watched contemporary wrestling in around 15 years I would guess.

and lastly, from the benignly foreign cohost:
"cm punk was the absolute dirt worst fighter in UFC history"


Greg Hardy gets my vote for most despicable fighter (scraping the bottom of the MMA personality barrel will certainly unearth even more sociopathic personalities than Hardy's, but they don't tend to come in getting the rub from Uncle Dana along with an oversized push), but Punk's foray into UFC was worse even than the quote gives him credit for, if for no other reason than he was on the main card PPV's, not opening the free early prelims.
   2486. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 11, 2022 at 04:48 PM (#6095774)
they get cheered like crazy, and have done throughout the heel run
this is not something to brag about. if you're regularly getting cheered as a heel, that doesn't mean you're popular; it means you're failing at your job.
to the "refused to lose to FTR" part, which is pure Cornette-based speculation.
if you don't think cornette has sources inside of AEW, you're lying to yourself. but point taken and fair enough.

however, let's also not pretend there's no smoke there.
The Bucks have regularly put teams over.
who? what AEW tag team has gotten over in any meaningful way?


and btw:
if your EVPs/cofounders/"elite" are regularly putting over mid card talent, that's not a good thing.
   2487. MHS Posted: September 11, 2022 at 08:47 PM (#6095794)
Meltzer said in WON this week their are lawsuits in play over the AEW stuff which is why they didn’t utilize it in TV. Plus, punk is hurt again and will be out of action for the rest of the year at least, regardless.

Changing topics slightly. I thought clash at the castle was one of the best shows I’ve seen in years, not that I’m a regular viewer. I really lloved the Gunther - Shamus match. Maybe my favorite Match ina long time.

I recently read The territories by Chad Dundas and Jonathan Snowden and really loved it. Pro wrestling alternative reality fiction isn’t something I thought I’d like. I bought it to support Snowden who is my favorite pro wrestling/mma writer. Really loved it. Pat Rapper you should check it out. It’s on Amazon.

   2488. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 11, 2022 at 11:02 PM (#6095799)
Meltzer said in WON this week their are lawsuits in play over the AEW stuff which is why they didn’t utilize it in TV.
i'll believe a case is winnable only after it doesn't immediately get thrown out of whatever court it's filed in. i don't care how corporate AEW wants to think it is; this was still just a backstage fight between pro wrestlers. show me arrest reports and hospital bills, and then maybe (still almost certainly not, but maybe) i'll believe it's serious.

but for now? it's been a week since shtf, and we've seen no pictures and no video. my money is still on this being a work.
Plus, punk is hurt again and will be out of action for the rest of the year at least, regardless.
true. being out of the ring really killed sting's momentum in WCW in 97.
   2489. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 12, 2022 at 02:34 AM (#6095807)
insomnia is fun:
CM PUNK WAS backstage chatting with Will Hobbs at an All Elite Wrestling (AEW) television show last September. That evening, the two were scheduled to have a match against one another at a sold-out Arthur Ashe Stadium in Flushing, New York.
...
The nerves of Hobbs were evident across his barrel-chested, 270-pound frame. This was by far the most fans he had ever performed in front of. Hobbs signed with AEW during the pandemic when there were no fans in attendance, and it was only Punk's second match since returning to pro wrestling after a seven-year layoff.

Punk, one of the biggest wrestling stars of the last two decades, opened their discussion about how the match would be laid out with something surprising. Punk said he knew Hobbs' mother had died just about a month before and the match would be in her honor.

"First thing he said, don't worry about anybody else," Hobbs told ESPN. "'Your mom is in the crowd. Let's put the match on for her.' That made me feel so much better, so much more comfortable with him in the ring. He just knew what that night meant for me."
Dustin Rhodes was on the WWE roster with Punk for years in the 2000s and 2010s, but said he didn't begin forming a close bond with him until they were both in AEW. Rhodes, 53, is a wrestler and coach for AEW, and he has seen Punk be a mentor to the younger wrestlers over the last nine months. Rhodes said he believes that many of the ill feelings toward Punk from other wrestlers in the industry are rooted in "jealousy," and the negative perceptions about him backstage are untrue.

"He is always coaching up the talents when they come back or on their promos or a certain move, saying 'less is more' sometimes," Rhodes said. "Those are very, very important things to learn as a young superstar in the wrestling world. Because you've got to take advantage of that. And he is very accessible in that manner."

Hobbs, 31, said he couldn't even remember the number of times Punk has pulled him into his locker room to watch one of his matches to offer guidance, noting that Punk's main advice to him is usually about slowing down and not rushing. Max Caster, a 32-year-old rising AEW star, said that he has come to Punk for business advice for non-wrestling ventures. Caster added Punk made him feel included in the locker room, from randomly stealing his jacket and posting a photo wearing it on Instagram to greeting him last September following a two-month suspension for reciting a controversial rap on TV.

"It was the day I came back from suspension and I thought, 'Oh gosh, everyone hates me,'" Caster said. "I passed by him in the hallway, and he says, 'Hey Max, what's up?' And I go, 'Oh God, this guy knows my name.' I've never even met him. That told me what kind of guy he was, that he was educated on who was on the roster from top to bottom.
"I don't run things," Punk said. "I don't call shots. I don't book s---. I just make towns. And I have a wealth of experience that I can draw from. I have a wealth of positive and negative experiences that I can draw from. I'm not sitting back trying to hold people back, politic or anything. I'm just literally trying to make this place better."
"CM Punk is somebody who continuously, I think, surprises me, amazes me," Khan said. "He helped grow our business when he arrived here. I think that, in particular, [he] helped put a spotlight on a lot of the young wrestlers. He's also been a really good mentor backstage in addition to just helping people's wallets potentially by getting everybody in a better position in this company, by helping us get more fans, sell more pay-per-views, sell more merchandise. He's been that guy."
"Everyone wants the top spot, but not everyone wants to work for it," Allin said. "But he works for it. He'll go out there randomly on a Wednesday with a match announced like an hour before the show and kill it. He's not a prima donna. He's ready to rock. He's ready to be put to work. That's all I want everyone to do, is to be put to work. You've got guys saying, 'I don't feel like wrestling this week.' Get the f--- out of here. With him, it's like, 'Let's go. I want to show people what I can do. I want to be put to work.' Lead by example, and he's the best at it."
[CM punk is] having the time of his life and believes this is what his pro-wrestling experience should have always been. Punk said it makes him "angry" that he missed out on this type of environment for years -- and not just the seven years away from the industry. He also means the decade he spent in WWE, where he said he spent far too much time "chewing my fingernails off" worrying about "what old head you're gonna make mad for no reason."

"I feel like it was kind of wasted," Punk said. "It could have been so much more. It should have been so much more. And now, this is everything I dreamed pro wrestling could and should be. And I'm here and I'm f---ing in the moment. I'm not thinking about tomorrow. I'm not worried about s--- that happened yesterday. I'm living in the moment and I'm 100% in my f---ing prime, best I've ever been."
   2490. Scott Lange Posted: September 12, 2022 at 08:53 AM (#6095813)
but for now? it's been a week since shtf, and we've seen no pictures and no video. my money is still on this being a work.


You're joking with this, right? Because there's no way on earth this is a work. What kind of work embarasses the boss, sidelines key performers at a very inconvenient time, and isn't included in the on-air storyline?

Also, the year-to-year ratings comparisons you have been posting seem misleading. The 2021 week was at an outlier moment, right after Punk came back. It doesn't seem surprising that they'd be down compared to that moment in time.

2021 Dynamite Ratings
06 Oct  1053000 0.37
29 Sept 1152000 0.45
22 Sept 1273000 0.48
15 Sept 1175000 0.44
8 Sept  1319000 0.53 
<-- the week you're comparing to
1 Sept  1047000 0.37
25 Aug  1172000 0.48  <-- first show after Punk
18 Aug  975000 0.35
11 Aug  979000 0.35 


2021 Rampage Ratings
22 October   533
,000 0.22
15 October   578
,000 0.24
08 October   502000 0.17
1 October    622
,000 0.25
24 September 640
,000 0.29
17 September 642
,000 0.28
10 September 670
,000 0.27  <-- the week you're comparing to
3 September  696,000 0.30
27 August    720,000 0.34
20 August    1,129,000 0.53 <-- Punk returns
13 August    740,000 0.30 


For my money, it's absolutely not a work, but perhaps it's an opportunity. The product has been wildly overstuffed - too many wrestlers, too many belts, even too many companies (AEW/ROH/NJPW/etc). Sidelining the drama and putting on a simpler, cleaner show made Dynamite the best it's been in a while.
   2491. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 12, 2022 at 12:58 PM (#6095831)
You're joking with this, right? Because there's no way on earth this is a work. What kind of work embarasses the boss, sidelines key performers at a very inconvenient time, and isn't included in the on-air storyline?
i'm not saying it's a well thought out or a well executed work.

i'm saying that tony khan knew that punk was going to go off at that "scrum", and then, to paraphrase punk, the EVPs "blew" punk's "spot". it's probably not a coincidence that the "reporters" that cm punk JUST called out for spreading lies about him (as confirmed by tony khan, himself), are the same ones that have all of these "exclusive" "details" about what "happened" backstage and how "people" "feel" about "it".

if there are three sides to every story (your side, my side and the truth), i think it's reasonable to assert that we've only heard one of those sides, so far. and it isn't punk's side, and it sure as hell isn't the truth.
Sidelining the drama and putting on a simpler, cleaner show made Dynamite the best it's been in a while.
that's probably why 350,000 viewers turned the show off: because it was the best it's been in a while.

a decade from now, noone will remember anything that happened in any of those matches. but i guarantee people will remember cm punk's press conference. there are a lot of wrestlers who would do well to take some notes on that.
   2492. aberg Posted: September 12, 2022 at 01:07 PM (#6095832)
For my money, it's absolutely not a work, but perhaps it's an opportunity. The product has been wildly overstuffed - too many wrestlers, too many belts, even too many companies (AEW/ROH/NJPW/etc). Sidelining the drama and putting on a simpler, cleaner show made Dynamite the best it's been in a while.


This is mostly where I am, too. The last week on AEW TV was definitely a missed opportunity. Even if they're wary of exposing themselves to legal liability, that doesn't mean they have to be weirdly evasive about every element of it. Substantively, they stripped four guys of titles and at least 3 of them are not injured, so they don't think that nothing happened. Even just say they are stripped pending the outcome of an internal investigation. That can at least tie into a storyline.

I agree with what you are saying about simplifying the AEW stories and structure. I generally think that wrestling shows/companies should have unofficial "division" of main eventers, secondary title challengers, and lower card workers. I think the sweet spot is usually 6-10 per division for the men's divisions and 4-6 for tag teams and women, just based on the size of the divisions in most companies. People can wrestle out of their divisions, but most of the storylines are within the divisions or challenges for someone to basically move up and take someone else's spot in the higher division. Doing it this way would be especially valuable for Tony Khan because it seems like he's overwhelmed and can't keep all the shows, belts, angles, and factions coherently organized on his shows. They also simply have/had too many wrestlers and belts for the amount of TV time they have.
   2493. Scott Lange Posted: September 12, 2022 at 01:47 PM (#6095836)
i'm not saying it's a well thought out or a well executed work.


So it's a work where Punk calls a top babyface a coward, the babyface doesn't respond, then Punk incinerates him in a press scrum, the babyface still doesn't respond, Punk himself is stripped of the title and removed from TV, and the babyface still never responds. I really can't see how anyone would see that as a work.

that's probably why 350,000 viewers turned the show off: because it was the best it's been in a while.

a decade from now, noone will remember anything that happened in any of those matches. but i guarantee people will remember cm punk's press conference. there are a lot of wrestlers who would do well to take some notes on that.


I remember the Finger Poke Of Doom and WCW Champion David Arquette, but that doesn't mean they were good for business. A show focused on compelling wrestling and compelling stories shown on TV is going to be vastly more succesful in the long run than one focused on off-screen drama.

This is mostly where I am, too. The last week on AEW TV was definitely a missed opportunity. Even if they're wary of exposing themselves to legal liability, that doesn't mean they have to be weirdly evasive about every element of it. Substantively, they stripped four guys of titles and at least 3 of them are not injured, so they don't think that nothing happened. Even just say they are stripped pending the outcome of an internal investigation. That can at least tie into a storyline.


I do agree it should've been addressed a little more squarely just so the televised story could make a bit more sense. Something as simple as "These wrestlers were involved in an incident that crossed the lines of what we can permit at AEW. They are all suspended as we conduct an investigation."

I generally think that wrestling shows/companies should have unofficial "division" of main eventers, secondary title challengers, and lower card workers. I think the sweet spot is usually 6-10 per division for the men's divisions and 4-6 for tag teams and women, just based on the size of the divisions in most companies. People can wrestle out of their divisions, but most of the storylines are within the divisions or challenges for someone to basically move up and take someone else's spot in the higher division. Doing it this way would be especially valuable for Tony Khan because it seems like he's overwhelmed and can't keep all the shows, belts, angles, and factions coherently organized on his shows. They also simply have/had too many wrestlers and belts for the amount of TV time they have.


Right. Just like any other tv show, you generally want an A-plot, a B-plot, and maybe like a C- and D- plot. You want those plots to advance your characters' stories from week to week over the course of a season. There's a reason tv shows don't have 100 main charachters (wrestlers) fighting over 20 different McGuffins (belts), and a reason they don't have characters do a story beat (angle) then disppear for weeks before returning in a different direction- it's too confusing to follow!

How many belts are contested on AEW television these days? I count:
AEW World Title
TNT
Tag (x2)
Trios (x3)
FTW
All-Atlantic
Women's World Title
TBS
The mixed-tag belts Sammy/Tay hold (x2)
ROH World Title
ROH TV Title
ROH Pure Title
ROH Tag (x2)
ROH Women's

That's 14 belts, held by (up to) 19 wrestlers! I'm probably missing some tag belts held by FTW and you could throw in the Owen Hart belts they awarded too. It's all way way way way too much.
   2494. RJ in TO Posted: September 12, 2022 at 04:19 PM (#6095858)
With respect to your list:
- The belt issue should generally be mostly resolved when/if ROH gets its own show
- The All Atlantic is probably better thought of as a touring belt than an on TV belt, as I think the massive majority of the defenses has been PAC fighting in the major indies around Europe and will likely continue to be
- The mixed-tag belts should be gone soon, as they're AAA belts, rather than AEW (and sooner is better, so Sammy and Tay don't get another chance to accidentally kill Ruby Soho)

However, even ignoring the above, there's still the following:
- AEW World Title
- TNT
- Tag (x2)
- Trios (x3)
- Women's World Title
- TBS
- FTW
and oddities like the Dynamite Diamond Ring, and the Owen Hart cup, which is a lot of belts/awards for 3 hours of TV a week, plus whatever other IMPACT/AAA/NJPW belts that happen to be passing through at the time, so your general point still stands
   2495. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 12, 2022 at 04:44 PM (#6095860)
So it's a work where Punk calls a top babyface a coward, the babyface doesn't respond, then Punk incinerates him in a press scrum, the babyface still doesn't respond, Punk himself is stripped of the title and removed from TV, and the babyface still never responds. I really can't see how anyone would see that as a work.

let's imagine for a second that punk wasn't stripped of the title because of what he said at a press conference (or because he tore his triceps), but because of the "fight" that occurred after (at least) 6 other wrestlers (and at least 4 named executives) stormed into his lockerroom while he was injured and bleeding from the main event.

without that later shitshow, his comments at the "scrum" start to look a lot more like a determined heel turn.

but then you might wonder why did he need to be so whiny and defensive and hypocritical while he was picking at a muffin with his bare hands? well, maybe it's because that's a good way to make sure that even people who are inclined to support you (such as myself) would sit on their hands, at least while the angle is getting off the ground.
   2496. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 12, 2022 at 04:45 PM (#6095861)
However, even ignoring the above, there's still the following:
- AEW World Title
- TNT
- Tag (x2)
- Trios (x3)
- Women's World Title
- TBS
- FTW
given tony khan's fondness for mid-90s WCW, i'm kind of surprised they don't have a "cruiserweight" title yet.
   2497. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 12, 2022 at 05:11 PM (#6095862)
Aside from the many belts listed, in early AEW had the womens deadly draw and awarded medals to the winners (Ivelisse & Diamanté). When Ivelisse left, AEW stopped having Diamanté wear her medal to the ring & I don’t believe they ever mentioned the medals or the deadly draw again

I’m surprised aew has never had a crusierweight title but then again a high percentage of their roster are crusierweights. How long before the NWA Western States Heritage Championship (active from June 1987-January 1989) & is dusted off & presented by a member of the Crockett family? ;-p
   2498. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 12, 2022 at 05:15 PM (#6095863)
Tony Khan is often compared to UWF wild man Herb Abrams and looking at the UWF’s final ppv card Blackjack Brawl, both Khan and Herb certainly know how to pack a company with too many belts. On Blackjack Brawl no less then 9 different titles were vied for on the 11-match card
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UWF_Blackjack_Brawl
   2499. Scott Lange Posted: September 12, 2022 at 05:16 PM (#6095864)
without that later shitshow, his comments at the "scrum" start to look a lot more like a determined heel turn.

Again, the primary target of his gripes is a top babyface who just took being called a coward and never responded. What kind of feud involves a heel running down a face who never responds? And then the secondary target is a guy who is never on TV and almost never even on Dark. What kind of feud pits your top star against someone who isn't even shown enough to merit the tag "jobber"?

If it was a work, Punk would've been griping about someone he might have feuded with, and then that person would've responded somehow. None of that happened. It's not a work.

The belt issue should generally be mostly resolved when/if ROH gets its own show

There doesn't seem to be any sign of this happening, so that's problem #1. With the dark clouds over Warner Brothers/Discovery, I'd say there's more danger of losing some of AEW's tv platform than there are prospects of finding a home for ROH. Even if Tony does find a network that wants a show, it will just further dilute the "smart mark serious wrestling" fan audience, which is smaller than the mainstream WWE audience to begin with. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but right now, I'd say Tony has never looked like more of a f'n mark (tm MJF) than when he bought ROH and tried to squeeze it in to AEW.

The All Atlantic is probably better thought of as a touring belt than an on TV belt, as I think the massive majority of the defenses has been PAC fighting in the major indies around Europe and will likely continue to be


This is true, and the defenses in foreign lands on Dark have been pretty darn cool. But as you say, it's a lot of belts...

And the belts are easier to count than the wrestlers, but the excess of wrestlers is really worse. A quick Google indicates the current on-screen talent roster is 178 people long. Glancing over the list, the vast majority have been active in some sort of match or angle within the last few weeks. How can anyone maintain/build interest in that many characters simultaneously? How can you possibly service that many characters in 3 hours of TV time and another 2 hours of YouTube?
   2500. smileyy Posted: September 13, 2022 at 12:46 AM (#6095912)
I just saw this thread pop up on the sidebar, and I just wanted to say: "NXT 2.0"
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