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Monday, October 27, 2014

OT: Wrestling Thread November 2014

Given that the old wrestling thread got shut down, here is a new one that shamelessly links to my Hell in a Cell review!

aberg Posted: October 27, 2014 at 01:47 PM | 2636 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: wrestling

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   2501. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 13, 2022 at 02:01 AM (#6095914)
Again, the primary target of his gripes is a top babyface who just took being called a coward and never responded. What kind of feud involves a heel running down a face who never responds? And then the secondary target is a guy who is never on TV and almost never even on Dark. What kind of feud pits your top star against someone who isn't even shown enough to merit the tag "jobber"?

assuming the plan was to set punk up against MJF, ignoring MJF is a much bigger slight to him than running him down.

but also, not teeing up a specific opponent creates wiggle room to go in any number of different directions.
I just saw this thread pop up on the sidebar, and I just wanted to say: "NXT 2.0"
2.0 was, predictably, a shitshow, but before that, it's not unreasonable to say that NXT was failing to accomplish its stated purpose: developing main event caliber talent.
   2502. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 13, 2022 at 11:03 AM (#6095937)
i haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but fwiw, kenny "omega" has been "referred to" as a "peacemaker" in the "backstage" "melee" that "happened" last "sunday".
   2503. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 13, 2022 at 11:07 AM (#6095938)
moving on, since this thread is as active as it's been in a while, i'm gonna go ahead and throw out a link to one of my all-time favorite wrestlemania matches. i'm generally a believer in giving the people what they want, but when you go as far in the other direction as this, it can work just as well.
   2504. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: September 13, 2022 at 05:47 PM (#6095993)
How long before the NWA Western States Heritage Championship (active from June 1987-January 1989) & is dusted off & presented by a member of the Crockett family? ;-p


It's currently under glass...on display as part of the CNN Studio Tour in Atlanta! In a room celebrating all of Ted Turner's business/entertainment ventures. I marked out.
   2505. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 13, 2022 at 06:40 PM (#6095999)
i haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but fwiw, kenny "omega" has been "referred to" as a "peacemaker" in the "backstage" "melee" that "happened" last "sunday".


Ahh yes Kenny Omega “protector of Larry” and “animal lover”

It's currently under glass...on display as part of the CNN Studio Tour in Atlanta! In a room celebrating all of Ted Turner's business/entertainment ventures. I marked out.


That’s really cool! If I’m ever in Atlanta again, I’ll be sure to take that tour.
   2506. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 15, 2022 at 10:42 PM (#6096380)
"from a business only standpoint, you keep punk and you get rid of everybody else."
   2507. Scott Lange Posted: September 16, 2022 at 12:00 AM (#6096386)
Hey stig, remember how you were writing AEW's epitaph based on last week's 2022/2021 Dynamite ratings comparison? Why no update this week? Oh right:

9/14/22 - 1,175,000
9/15/21 - 1,173,000

Honestly, sweating the weekly ups and down of tv ratings is kinda pointless, but surely we can at least say the sky isn't falling.

I liked but didn't love Wednesday's show. The two semifinals were perfectly good matches but the winners seemed pretty obvious going in. There were three short matches where I feel like the booking is just going in circles (Hobbs, Jungle Boy, the entire women's division). The highlights for me were MJF (as always) and the tag match. The sequence starting at 2:25 here was just incredible. And, I'll say it, I got a kick out of seeing Luigi Primo make a brief appearance. I'm sure stig and Jim Cornette loved it too.
   2508. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 16, 2022 at 12:27 PM (#6096431)
And, I'll say it, I got a kick out of seeing Luigi Primo make a brief appearance. I'm sure stig and Jim Cornette loved it too.

and miro, don't forget miro:
AEW on TV @AEWonTV
Just gonna leave this here… #AEWDynamite
Miro @ToBeMiro
You should have left this on the indies


but also, to the extent that i do have a problem with guys like that getting exposure on national TV, my issue is that it often comes at the expense of more legitimate storylines/wrestlers who i actively want to see. as long as my bread is getting buttered, i can live with #### like that (as opposed to someone like cornette, which isn't a knock on him because his pov on that is no less valid than anyone else's).
Hey stig, remember how you were writing AEW's epitaph based on last week's 2022/2021 Dynamite ratings comparison? Why no update this week? Oh right:

9/14/22 - 1,175,000
9/15/21 - 1,173,000

Honestly, sweating the weekly ups and down of tv ratings is kinda pointless, but surely we can at least say the sky isn't falling.

if you're telling me that AEW performs better when the young bucks (and kenny omega) are not on camera or backstage, color me shocked.
   2509. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 16, 2022 at 12:53 PM (#6096436)
an update on cm punk's various grievances with AEW personnel, as they're continuing to trickle out:


bobby fish:
-- during punk's 2nd ever AEW TV match, fish stepped on punk's GTS finisher by kicking out of it as he was getting pinned.
-- that ending turned a match that had been very good, into a headscratcher, with punk himself turning to the referee after the pin, as if he didn't know what the #### just happened.
-- fish is (at the very least) sympathetic to various Qanon conspiracies, and he has donated money in support of them.
-- fish also happens to be in the young buck's clique.


the danielson/cole debut:
-- both debuts happened after the main event of punk's first AEW PPV, stepping on what should have been his big coming out.
-- by occurring just weeks after punk's own AEW debut, it took steam out of his sails, before he had a chance to ramp up.
-- cole is in the buck's clique.
-- danielson is, at least to some extent, adjacent to the buck's clique, by virtue of his time in PWG.


adam page:
-- while backstage, at some point leading up to page dropping the title to punk, punk told page, to his face, that he would never return the favor and put page over.
-- this probably happened after page "went into business for himself", but that timeline is not confirmed.
-- page, ofc, is part of the young buck's clique.




are these the rantings/receipts of a madman who is extraordinarily sensitive to inconsequential events?
have AEW's EVPs been actively sabotaging punk for as long as he's been in the company?
to find out, tune in next time to dragon ball z.
   2510. Scott Lange Posted: September 16, 2022 at 02:31 PM (#6096461)
are these the rantings/receipts of a madman who is extraordinarily sensitive to inconsequential events?

Do you mean Punk or yourself? Either way, my answer is yes. ;-)

if you're telling me that AEW performs better when the young bucks (and kenny omega) are not on camera or backstage, color me shocked.

Well, I'm not, since they weren't on the show two weeks ago either (the one you said signaled the death of AEW.) But since I've only been back in for a year or so (and basically never heard of Omega/Bucks before then), I have a sincere question - what would be the argument that they are ratings poison? They seem quite popular, and they seem to be good wrestlers and good story tellers. What's not to like? I know people sometimes accuse them of "flippy ####\" - is that it? You prefer wrestlers to be more mat-based? And you think audiences do too?
   2511. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 16, 2022 at 10:28 PM (#6096563)
I have a sincere question - what would be the argument that they are ratings poison? They seem quite popular, and they seem to be good wrestlers and good story tellers. What's not to like? I know people sometimes accuse them of "flippy ####\" - is that it? You prefer wrestlers to be more mat-based? And you think audiences do too?

the argument for them being ratings poison is that ratings consistently drop by 100+K viewers when they show up on AEW TV.


as for what's not to like about them as wrestlers:
-- they look like 7th graders.
-- they have no background in combat sports that could help them plausibly overcome that.
-- their "flippy ####\" is laughably fake.
-- every match they have is "raven's rules", for no reason and with no explanation.
-- the rest of their #### is also laughably fake.
-- just go listen to josh barnett for a few minutes.



what's not to like about them as people:
-- they used their position as executives to get jobs for their friends, with hugely inflated guaranteed salaries, and hundreds/thousands of hours of TV airtime, at the expense of the company they run, and to the detriment of legitimate talent that was marginalized in the process.
-- they named a move after a dirt sheet writer, which is some grade-A brown-nosing teacher's pet bullshit.
-- they use those same dirt sheets to seed unfavorable stories about anyone not in their carpool (if you think that was just a cm punk thing, go find cody rhodes at a bar and see what he has to say after a beer or two...).
-- they tried to freeze out FTR, and jim ross and CM punk (those are just the people who are secure enough to put their names behind it...for now). you want to talk about toxicity? you want to talk about sabotage? there you go.
   2512. Scott Lange Posted: September 17, 2022 at 11:18 AM (#6096611)
the argument for them being ratings poison is that ratings consistently drop by 100+K viewers when they show up on AEW TV.

Is there any evidence for this? I don't see any from a quick google. And your previous evidence of it was that the show pulled a good rating without them on 9/14, when you were proclaiming the rating it pulled without them on 9/7 as tantamount to death.

as for what's not to like about them as wrestlers:

To each their own, I suppose, but none of that bothers me. And I also struggle to see what the allegedly-superior non-"flippy ####\" alternative is. I've watched many hours of pro wrestling, both in the last year and in the '98-'03 time frame, and I don't recall seeing a single match that ever looked anything like genuine combat. And why would I want to? If I wanted to watch something that looked like MMA, I'd watch MMA.

just go listen to josh barnett for a few minutes.

I did! It seems like his argument is that they should be more clear-cut heels rather than "cool heels." I have some sympathy for that - I love a good pure heel. One of the things I love most about MJF is how fully he commits to heelishness, even these last couple weeks when the crowd is rapturous for him. But I think there's plenty of room for different approaches, tweeners, etc. Variety is the spice of life!

(His other argument - that he had to criticize their execution as poor because their moves were too impressive to plausibly not end matches otherwise - isn't really relevant, but seems absurd to me. Just say "wow, amazing kickout, what fortitude." Mission accomplished.)

they tried to freeze out FTR, and jim ross and CM punk

I listened to the Barnett link but you couldn't pay me to listen to Cornette. I have to endure enough racist #### in my life as it is.
   2513. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 17, 2022 at 02:33 PM (#6096630)
Is there any evidence for this? I don't see any from a quick google.
it's shown up in the weekly quarter hours for a while, but i don't know if the information has been aggregated anywhere.
I've watched many hours of pro wrestling, both in the last year and in the '98-'03 time frame
[...]
His other argument - that he had to criticize their execution as poor because their moves were too impressive to plausibly not end matches otherwise - isn't really relevant, but seems absurd to me.
these two points may be more closely related than you realize.
I listened to the Barnett link but you couldn't pay me to listen to Cornette. I have to endure enough racist #### in my life as it is.

unless i'm unaware of something, cornette's animus is more accurately defined as jingoism, rather than racism.

i doubt his hands are clean, but given that he was born in 1960s kentucky, i'd say he rates pretty well on the racism meter, relative to what could be expected.
   2514. Scott Lange Posted: September 17, 2022 at 03:43 PM (#6096637)
Well, there's

Jim Cornette resigned from his position as NWA's color commentator Wednesday after making a racist comment on Tuesday's episode of NWA Power . . . During the episode, Cornette called Trevor Murdoch "the only man I've ever known that can strap a bucket of fried chicken on his back and ride a motor scooter across Ethiopia."
and there's "Cornette racist rant" with 8 minutes of slurs on youtube.

And then if racism bores you there's always
Jim Cornette . . . is in hot water after making homophobic comments about out gay All Elite Wrestling wrestler Sonny Kiss on the May 30 edition of his podcast, The Jim Cornette Experience.

“Then here comes Sonny Kiss who apparently got off his day job at the drag-show at the f**king Tropicana. They’re not explaining any of this... The transvestite or exotico as they would say at AAA,” said Cornette.

For the record, the exoticos of lucha libre are actually male wrestlers, usually gay, that wrestle in drag as a means of subverting long-held Latin ideals of machismo while elevating LGBTQ representation in the ring. Exotico is not one of the offensive terms Cornette used to describe the flamboyant athlete.

Cornette continued his regressive language throughout his review, criticizing AEW’s use of a female referee, mocking the minds AEW for figuratively “jerking off” all over each other and making numerous references to “anal rape” while describing a match between the Young Bucks and the Lucha Bros. But his comments about Kiss remained the most inflammatory.


unless i'm unaware of something, cornette's animus is more accurately defined as jingoism, rather than racism.

i doubt his hands are clean, but given that he was born in 1960s kentucky, i'd say he rates pretty well on the racism meter, relative to what could be expected.

I guess we have different meters.
   2515. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: September 17, 2022 at 09:31 PM (#6096691)
Corny is a bit. Probably the last living kayfabe. He is wrestling's version of a shock jock. He shits on everything in an incredibly exaggerated fashion. None of that provides an excuse for things the guy has said nor is it a remark on if he is/isn't a bigot. But I think, strangely enough, wrestling fans (of all people) often forget the dude's whole schtick is the classic "yourself cranked up to 11". It's a work.

Now the AdFreeShows lineup of podcasts has some real gems on it. I can listen to Regal tell stories for hours on end.
   2516. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 17, 2022 at 10:39 PM (#6096713)
Well, there's
[...]and there's "Cornette racist rant" with 8 minutes of slurs on youtube.

i'm kind of surprised you didn't dig up anything worse.

i mean, that's not to say his comments are defensible, but i was expecting to hear something that came out of his mouth in the heat of the moment, where that #### is at its ugliest.
During the episode, Cornette called Trevor Murdoch "the only man I've ever known that can strap a bucket of fried chicken on his back and ride a motor scooter across Ethiopia."
the gratuitousness of that comment is more offensive to me than the racism. like, just, why?
I guess we have different meters.
or maybe you have a much higher opinion of the average person born in 1960s kentucky.

based on the amount of laughter coming from the audience while cornette is in the middle of his "racist rant", i'm not convinced my opinion of them is mistaken.
   2517. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 17, 2022 at 11:33 PM (#6096732)
Jim Cornette . . . is in hot water after making homophobic comments about out gay All Elite Wrestling wrestler Sonny Kiss on the May 30 edition of his podcast, The Jim Cornette Experience.

“Then here comes Sonny Kiss who apparently got off his day job at the drag-show at the f**king Tropicana. They’re not explaining any of this... The transvestite or exotico as they would say at AAA,” said Cornette.

that's kind of sloppy reporting from outsports, imo. cornette's comment there isn't homophobic; it's transphobic.

but even to the extent that cornette's comments were transphobic, his core offense was using outdated terminology that he does not appear to have used as a slur in that instance.


fwiw, cornette did apologize to sonny kiss and his husband. outsports mentioned that in their article, but they may not have an appreciation for how many people cornette offends, and how few of those people he bothers to offer any kind of apology to.
   2518. Scott Lange Posted: September 18, 2022 at 11:47 PM (#6096850)
Corny is a bit. Probably the last living kayfabe. He is wrestling's version of a shock jock. He shits on everything in an incredibly exaggerated fashion. None of that provides an excuse for things the guy has said nor is it a remark on if he is/isn't a bigot. But I think, strangely enough, wrestling fans (of all people) often forget the dude's whole schtick is the classic "yourself cranked up to 11". It's a work.


based on the amount of laughter coming from the audience while cornette is in the middle of his "racist rant"


Yeah, yeah. He doesn't mean it. It's all a joke. It's just locker room talk.

No thanks.
   2519. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 19, 2022 at 10:38 AM (#6096863)
Yeah, yeah. He doesn't mean it. It's all a joke. It's just locker room talk.

No thanks.

i'm not going to defend cornette on this, and i'm not gonna tell you you're wrong to feel that way. i'm also not going to link the video where new jack popped unannounced into one of his shoot interviews, and say 'see, cornette has a black friend; he can't be racist'.


i'm just going to say, whether it's because cornette had a change of heart in the ~30 years since that clip was recorded, or whether he just feels that he needs to hide it for PR reasons, the fact that jim cornette isn't dropping gratuitous n-bombs in his anecdotes anymore is a big ####### win for society.
   2520. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 19, 2022 at 11:12 AM (#6096870)
when i mentioned a "racism meter" in [2513], i wasn't referring to anything specifically, but there is some aspect of "(pseudo-)scientific" classification to the way i think about this stuff. the factors that guide my thinking are something like this:

-- what is the target, and what is the cause, of the animus?
-- do the actions/words inflict/attempt to inflict acute harm?
-- is the subject unrepentant/unremorseful?


the reason why this doesn't offend me:
"the only man I've ever known that can strap a bucket of fried chicken on his back and ride a motor scooter across Ethiopia."

1: there's no specific target here. it's not even a "joke" about ethiopeans/africans; it's just a lazy repackaging of a tired racial stereotype. it's ####, but it's a much different variety of #### (imo) than, for instance, calling guatemala a '######## country'.

2: there's no harm here. it's not a personal attack; it's not a call to action; it's not fearmongering; it's not support for any kind of hate based policy. again, it's still ####, but there's a significant difference between this and, for instance, john fetterman being slandered by this bullshit.

3: ymmv, but the fact that cornette doesn't drop gratuitous n-bombs on every show (and the fact that he did actually apologize to sonny kiss) shows me that, no, cornette is not unrepentant, and no he is not unremorseful. he should still do better, and he shouldn't just be let off the hook for what he's done/said, but he's also not doubling down on it and continuing to perpetuate whatever harm he's caused.



again, i'm not going to tell you're wrong to feel how you do about cornette, i'm just explaining why i don't necessarily feel the same way.
   2521. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 19, 2022 at 11:32 AM (#6096874)
as for cornette's sonny kiss comments:
-- what is the target, and what is the cause, of the animus?
-- do the actions/words inflict/attempt to inflict acute harm?
-- is the subject unrepentant/unremorseful?


1: cornette did specifically target sonny kiss with a transphobic slur.

2: no, there was no acute harm done to anyone. and no, it was not an deliberate attempt to cause harm; cornette just didn't know the language had shifted.

cornette does legitimately hate that "exoticos" exist within the business of professional wreslting, but that hate isn't specific to "exoticos", it's an extension of his hatred for "comedy wrestling", in general, and #### that looks fake, specifically.

3: when cornette found out that sonny kiss (and his husband) were hurt by his comments, he apologized. it may not have been a perfect apology, but cornette didn't double down on his error, and he didn't use his position to incite further hatred towards sonny kiss.



the way i see it, cornette's response is exactly what we should want from people who find themselves in his position. if more bigots responded to criticism the way cornette did, this world would be a much better place. i think it is wrong-headed and counter-productive to hold this particular incident against him.


(i feel a bit more strongly about these points than the ones in the previous post)
   2522. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: September 20, 2022 at 10:36 AM (#6097036)
Yeah, yeah. He doesn't mean it. It's all a joke. It's just locker room talk.


"Yourself cranked up to 11" would, in fact, imply he's awfully backwards to begin with....but take from it what you wanna.
   2523. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 21, 2022 at 12:15 PM (#6097299)
there's a great feature on dax harwood, via the ringer:
Harwood is a proud graduate of the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, where he majored in Business Communications and minored in English (he’s quite literally run through a brick wall for fair wages for teachers). [...] “I’m so glad that I took the path that I have taken because it’s got me to where I’ve gotten, and I’m so blessed to have the life that I have, the family that I have, the job that I have. But, man, maybe at the time, I wish it was a little easier than what it was.” [...] Like most American college students in the early 2000s, Harwood and his family were affected by the looming recession. Both of his parents lost their jobs in the same year and were unable to assist with tuition going forward. To pay for school and training, Dax would hold three jobs at once, often sleeping in his car near or on campus between shifts to fulfill all of his responsibilities.
(The name FTR is a play on the fourth-wall-breaking tirades that the Bucks would give on their YouTube series Being the Elite that would include things like “Fuck the Revival” prior to Harwood and Wheeler signing with AEW.)

“I told [CM punk], ‘I want to tap out to you.’ And the reason was because I felt the shift of change with the fans and I felt them starting to get sympathy for [FTR] and starting to like us. If I tapped out to him, I knew I could do it in a way that would make the fans feel even more sympathetic to me. [.I] tapped out to Claudio. I tapped out to Adam Cole. Jungle Boy. I tapped out to Punk, I tapped out all my singles matches. Some guys are apprehensive about tapping out because they think it makes them look weak, but I know I can build myself around the tapout and make the people feel even more sorry for me and more sympathetic for me.”
“[The audience doesn’t] know what a ####### 450 feels like. They don’t know what a Go To Sleep feels like, or a Sharpshooter or whatever. But they know what failure feels like, and they know what frustration feels like. If I can get that emotion out of them, man, I got them. [...That], to me, is what is special about professional wrestling and being a wrestler.”[/b
   2524. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 22, 2022 at 09:41 PM (#6097576)
i forgot how much i love vickie guerrero.

   2525. RJ in TO Posted: September 22, 2022 at 10:01 PM (#6097579)
I really do not like AEW bringing in Saraya as an allegedly active wrestler. I know she says she's been cleared by her own doctors, but neck injuries really don't seem like the sort of thing where you should be pushing her luck, and this feels like the sort of thing which ends with her getting paralyzed.
   2526. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 22, 2022 at 10:41 PM (#6097590)
I really do not like AEW bringing in Saraya as an allegedly active wrestler. I know she says she's been cleared by her own doctors, but neck injuries really don't seem like the sort of thing where you should be pushing her luck, and this feels like the sort of thing which ends with her getting paralyzed.
neck injuries? in kenny omega's women's division? that's unpossible.
   2527. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 23, 2022 at 12:24 PM (#6097638)
"tony khan gave permission to cm punk to shoot at the media scrum, having no idea he would attack half the roster."

"AEW did not have grounds to fire cm punk for 'gross misconduct' and could only slap punk with a 30 day unpaid suspension."

"[punk has] creative control on his deal, which means they can't even fire him for breaching contract by refusing to do jobs"

"[cm punk] in 13 months with AEW, will make 417K per match."

"[AEW] can't get out of this deal. they have to pay him while he's injured. [...] deals are deals."


-- not jim cornette
   2528. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 23, 2022 at 07:54 PM (#6097692)
AEW Botches @aewbotches
AEW Grand Slam featured more WWE Superstars than #AEW originals:-

WWE- Paige, Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, Cesaro, Chris Jericho, Keith Lee, Billy Gunn, William Regal, Toni Storm, Ember Moon, Neville, Serena Deeb

AEW - The Acclaimed, Britt Baker, Pockets

Once again #WWE wins!
   2529. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 26, 2022 at 08:05 PM (#6098009)
Kenny Olivier @WhoIsDonStevens
I am speechless

https://twitter.com/WhoIsDonStevens/status/1573665181430820864


she was 19 years old.
   2530. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 26, 2022 at 08:06 PM (#6098010)
i think he was 62:
Kenny Olivier @WhoIsDonStevens
Why

https://twitter.com/WhoIsDonStevens/status/1573666463705051136
   2531. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 26, 2022 at 08:07 PM (#6098011)
   2532. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: September 26, 2022 at 09:03 PM (#6098015)

she was 19 years old.


The Julia Hart bump was cringe-worthy. The same show also had an ugly & unnecessary Sting bump.
   2533. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 28, 2022 at 11:12 AM (#6098188)
i'm gonna keep posting these videos, because i haven't watched most of this stuff before, and i find it fascinating.
   2534. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 29, 2022 at 11:28 PM (#6098420)
AEW dynamite hemorrhaged 300+K viewers (again) from their first 15 minutes to their last 15.


here's a fun thought experiment: who are the 8 most pushed (male) wrestlers on AEW TV right now? (and why aren't any of them FTR, wardlow or the briscoe brothers)
   2535. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: September 30, 2022 at 07:15 PM (#6098524)
"anything that takes away from the match, in that moment, is counterproductive. and by that standard, everything punk did was disastrous."

-- mick foley.
   2536. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: October 01, 2022 at 08:15 AM (#6098573)
Funny moment on last night’s Rampage: Hangman Page’s music hits and comes out to help the Dark Order. Page runs down the ramp & delivers a boot to Jose while slapping his own thigh. Dude, your music is still playing, no one can hear your thigh slap. I guess you can take the wrestler out of the indies but you can’t take the indies out the wrestler :-p
   2537. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 01, 2022 at 04:15 PM (#6098623)
Funny moment on last night’s Rampage: Hangman Page’s music hits and comes out to help the Dark Order. Page runs down the ramp & delivers a boot to Jose while slapping his own thigh. Dude, your music is still playing, no one can hear your thigh slap. I guess you can take the wrestler out of the indies but you can’t take the indies out the wrestler :-p
there was a lot of that kind of stuff at the start of the pandemic. there was a huge difference between the people who knew what they were doing and were able to adjust their style/material to the different working environment, and ones who just kept doing the same #### they had been doing, despite the arena being empty.
   2538. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 02, 2022 at 10:47 PM (#6098799)
Unpaid Critic @Unpaid__Critic

Since Winning the TNT title in July ,
Wardlow has wrestled only 4 Singles matches :

Vs Orange Cassidy
Vs Jay Lethal
Vs Ryan nemeth
Vs Tony Nese

WrestleNova @WrestleNova
AEW Removed from Channel Owned By Warner Bros. Discovery In Other Countries (via @PWMania)
https://twitter.com/WrestleNova/status/1576293374851796994
   2539. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: October 03, 2022 at 08:32 AM (#6098819)
Interesting about Wardlow only wrestling four matches. Definitely a lost opportunity. I certainly could have done without Wardlow goofily bumping for Cassidy. With no Punk & elite, the past few weeks would have been the time to build on Wardlow’s & FTR’s championship reigns. Instead, they have all lost momentum. Not sure if there’s any undisclosed injuries. I do know ftr was overseas recently.

What do people think of the MJF/Yuta feud? Aew was just in Philly which is Yuta's hometown. A few months back before Yuta's push, the Philly fans were rabid for him but last week the Philly fans didn’t seem as into him. Yuta isn’t able to go anywhere near toe to toe with MJF on the mic, in my opinion Starks would have been a better fit for MJF.

Two “forbidden door” wrestlers in high profile matches did not seem to help ratings. I was familiar with Juice Robinson from watching New Japan a few years back but have never been impressed. On the other hand, I had never seen former ROH champ Bandido before but would definitely be interested in seeing more of him
   2540. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2022 at 10:27 AM (#6098839)
Interesting about Wardlow only wrestling four matches. Definitely a lost opportunity. I certainly could have done without Wardlow goofily bumping for Cassidy. With no Punk & elite, the past few weeks would have been the time to build on Wardlow’s & FTR’s championship reigns. Instead, they have all lost momentum. Not sure if there’s any undisclosed injuries. I do know ftr was overseas recently.

"this is the first time [FTR] has been overseas since 2019"
"first thing's first: tony khan, we still work for you. book us, brother"

FTR on the mic.
   2541. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2022 at 10:46 AM (#6098841)
What do people think of the MJF/Yuta feud? Aew was just in Philly which is Yuta's hometown. A few months back before Yuta's push, the Philly fans were rabid for him but last week the Philly fans didn’t seem as into him. Yuta isn’t able to go anywhere near toe to toe with MJF on the mic, in my opinion Starks would have been a better fit for MJF.
yuta is being booked as if he's somebody; he's not. it's the same thing with daniel garcia.

i think it's kevin nash who said (something to the effect of) 'you have to be on television for 10+ years before you can draw money in this business'. he's wrong about that, but he's wrong in a way that still happens to be illuminating in this situation.

the audience has no connection to yuta; we have no connection to daniel garcia. we don't know who they are, we don't have any lingering attachment to them that might make us care about what happens to them, and so there's no emotional weight behind anything they do. trying to make them happen, trying to make them a thing, it's just pushing rope.


kevin nash also coined another phrase that happens to apply to both utah and garcia.
   2542. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2022 at 11:08 AM (#6098847)
btw:


i realized this past week that one of the reasons why i'm still pretty lukewarm on MJF, is because i'm unconsciously comparing him to stuff like this, because that's the professional wrestling that i first fell in love with.

it's clearly going to take more time for me to see MJF as something more than an off-brand bart simpson knock off.
   2543. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: October 03, 2022 at 02:26 PM (#6098894)
Good points, especially about Yuta & Garcia, who there are never a shortage of on AEW programming.

Watching Dax Harwood lose in singles matches (while entertaining because he’s an excellent wrestler) is not a good thing
   2544. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 03, 2022 at 08:18 PM (#6098970)
Good points, especially about Yuta & Garcia, who there are never a shortage of on AEW programming.

Watching Dax Harwood lose in singles matches (while entertaining because he’s an excellent wrestler) is not a good thing

the solution to both of those problems is staring everyone right in the face.

if you want to push dax harwood as a singles wrestler, you don't need to break FTR up, or take cash wheeler off TV. all you need to do is add a younger wrestler like brian pillman to the group, and let him learn the business by traveling with and working alongside two of the best wrestlers in the world.

everyone benefits from that arrangement. the main event scene gets a new contender, a younger talent gets a big push, the tag team division gets shaken up, the audience gets 2 FTR segments instead of 0.


this is A + B = C stuff, but for whatever reason, dixie carter would rather play with hangman barbie than run a real ####### promotion.
   2545. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: October 04, 2022 at 04:55 PM (#6099064)
Pillman definitely has been underused by AEW, it’s a shame he hasn’t been given anything close to the pushes Garcia and Yuta have

Hangman Barbie? That’s one I haven’t heard before but it’s a good one. How much of Page’s crowd reaction is just based on people like to chant “Cowboy Sh__?
   2546. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: October 04, 2022 at 04:59 PM (#6099065)
Tales from the Territories premieres tonight on VICE TV. Episode 1 centers on Memphis
   2547. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 04, 2022 at 05:39 PM (#6099073)
Tales from the Territories premieres tonight on VICE TV. Episode 1 centers on Memphis

Thanks for posting! DVR is set. Looking hopefully forward already to a Mid-South episode, since that's what I cut my wrestling fandom teeth on.
   2548. aberg Posted: October 04, 2022 at 05:44 PM (#6099074)
I'm not crazy about Yuta and I wasn't very high on Garcia until I saw him at a local indy show and was very impressed. I feel like there are too many guys in key spots in AEW for whom that's true. "Yeah, he's not presented in the most exciting way, but HAVE YOU SEEN HIM ON A LCAL INDY SHOW??"

I tend to believe that a wrestler needs a "hook" that makes it easy to understand why they're on TV in about 10 seconds. Stone Cold is a defiant, resilient Texan. The Rock is a charisma supernova who happens to be a world class athlete. Brock Lesnar is a genetically perfect ass-kicking machine. John Cena is full-sized Mark Wahlberg. For a bunch of the AEW guys, the hook takes half an hour and a YouTube playlist to explain. For the most part, I'm ok with that because I love wrestling. But that has to put a ceiling on your audience. My wife is never going to wander into the room and start asking me questions about Wheeler Yuta the way she does about Drew McIntyre. I'm not saying AEW can't get these guys to that point, but it doesn't seem like a priority.
   2549. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 04, 2022 at 06:10 PM (#6099079)
Hangman Barbie? That’s one I haven’t heard before but it’s a good one. How much of Page’s crowd reaction is just based on people like to chant “Cowboy Sh__?
tony khan runs AEW like he's a child playing with GI joes in his basement. it's why he can't handle the backstage issues; it's why he can't take advantage when someone gets over on their own; it's why he can't capitalize on the huge amount of attention that his company just got (negative though it may have been); it's why he keeps throwing hangman barbie at us, despite the guy starting this whole shitstorm in the first place by going off-script against punk. tony khan doesn't want to deal with any of that; all he wants to do with AEW is drink his juicebox and slam his action dolls against each other.


if you want to know why people like FTR and wardlow and pillman jr and hobbs and starks don't get pushed, if you want to know why the briscoes and jay lethal and claudio get stepped on and left for dead, just take a moment to consider the backstage political structure of AEW:

- you have omega and the bucks pushing their carpool buddies
- you have meltzer pushing every spot monkey who's worked 6 weeks in japan
- you have jericho pushing jericho
- you have someone (maybe penta or konan; or maybe just generation me) pushing for the luchas
- moxley is pushing his mudshow cockfighters.


but who else is left in tony khan's orbit to push for the rest of the roster?

- cody rhodes had tony khan's ear until he was marginalized and pushed out of the company. (btw: i wonder who it was that ran to the dirt sheets to put the blame on punk for rhodes leaving...)
- jim ross walks around as if working in AEW is the worst decision he's made in his life.
- cm punk had creative control for himself, but he didn't seem to have any power beyond that.
- brian danielson doesn't have any pull.



imagine trying to navigate that palace intrigue if you're not already a made man to begin with.


(obligatory)
   2550. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 05, 2022 at 11:24 PM (#6099306)
Tales from the Territories premieres tonight on VICE TV. Episode 1 centers on Memphis
it's up on vice's youtube channel. free.
   2551. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 05, 2022 at 11:41 PM (#6099309)
   2552. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 05, 2022 at 11:57 PM (#6099312)
Trevor Dame @TrevorDame
Sometimes on a day where AEW is having a lot of drama I check on Adam Cole's Twitch for a second just to laugh at the contrast. Right now he's playing Super Mario RPG and his pressing concern is "How do I find out how many frog coins I have?"
   2553. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 06, 2022 at 12:06 AM (#6099315)
Wrestle Ops @WrestleOps
*Sammy allegedly threw punches first at Andrade*

Andrade proceeds to get sent home & Sammy is still on TV to main event the show later.

Make it make sense.
JDfromNY @JDfromNY206
Sammy Guevara was not sent home. Andrade was. And that’s the ####### problem right there #AEWDynamite

Dave Meltzer @davemeltzerWON
How does this happen in AEW? Everyone paying attention should have known to keep Sammy & Andrade apart.
   2554. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 17, 2022 at 02:12 AM (#6101162)
   2555. aberg Posted: October 17, 2022 at 10:53 AM (#6101192)
Can you explain? Isn't that clip a few years old? Not aware of the context.
   2556. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 17, 2022 at 07:52 PM (#6101299)
Can you explain? Isn't that clip a few years old? Not aware of the context.
the clip was new to me, but yeah, it appears to be a few years old.

   2557. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: October 17, 2022 at 08:25 PM (#6101307)
AEW botches & their different burner twitter accts regularly post this video of Alex Reynolds getting knocked out, dragged to the corner, and wrestled around until he finally comes to. It’s not a great look for AEW & Donald Stevens (believed by many to be ref Aubrey) often gets the video pulled down after a day or so.
   2558. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 24, 2022 at 10:07 AM (#6102312)
reading between a few lines:

-- cm punk is threatening to sue AEW for their EVP's actions, unless he gets...something.

-- tony khan wants to keep the bucks and kenny in their EVP roles, at all costs, despite their abuses.

-- tony khan doesn't want cm punk in WWE.

-- WWE thinks they can make money with cm punk.

-- punk probably wants to debut at the rumble.

-- if punk does come back to WWE, wins the rumble, and forces his way into a 3-way main event with reigns and the rock, it would be the biggest wrestlemania main event since X-7.

-- roman reigns 100% does not want punk in WWE.

-- cody rhodes and randy orton are probably in agreement with reigns.

-- HHH thinks WWE can make money with cm punk.
   2559. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 24, 2022 at 05:00 PM (#6102407)
here's a fun thought experiment: who are the 8 most pushed (male) wrestlers on AEW TV right now? (and why aren't any of them FTR, wardlow or the briscoe brothers)

i'll answer my own proposition:

-- moxley (45 year old ex-WWE castoff)
-- jericho (55 year old ex-WWE castoff)
-- daniel garcia (12 months ago: "who?")
-- wheeler utah (4 months ago: "who?")
-- hangman barbie (the guy ###### up AEW's business and tony khan still can't stop bending over for him)
-- sammy guevara (unanimously considered to have the most punchable face in professional wrestling today)
-- jungle boy ("he's so much more entertaining than he was 2 years ago" -noone)
-- orange julius (see 'jungle boy')
-- MJF


that's 8 names deep, and i still haven't gotten to FTR, to wardlow, to the briscoes, brian danielson, claudio, samoa joe, jay lethal, adam cole, eddie kingston, hobbs, starks, pillman, the gunns, swerve, or the acclaimed.
   2560. aberg Posted: October 25, 2022 at 10:27 AM (#6102507)
-- punk probably wants to debut at the rumble.


I'm with most of your syllogism but I think this part is debatable. I would be very surprised to see him in any ring in the next 6 months.

that's 8 names deep, and i still haven't gotten to FTR, to wardlow, to the briscoes, brian danielson, claudio, samoa joe, jay lethal, adam cole, eddie kingston, hobbs, starks, pillman, the gunns, swerve, or the acclaimed.


I do this exercise with some friends from time to time (who is in AEW's main event picture). It feels like they have more than enough guys to build a great main event but often don't have the right guys in that picture. If your top 6 is something like Mox (he's 36, not 45), Jericho, MJF, Danielson, Kingston, Starks, Swerve (or swap out some of those bottom 3 for others from your lists), that's a very strong group.
   2561. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 25, 2022 at 11:33 AM (#6102518)
I'm with most of your syllogism but I think this part is debatable. I would be very surprised to see him in any ring in the next 6 months.
the rumble might not be 6 months away, but wrestlemania is. punk doesn't need to carry the rumble; he just needs to win it.

but yeah, there's definitely some wishcasting going on there.
Mox (he's 36, not 45),
wait...really? eh...hopefully he's one of those guys that looks 40 when he's 20 and 40 when he's 60, rather than someone who looks 50 when he's 30, and winds up in the obituaries before he turns 50.
   2562. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 25, 2022 at 11:36 AM (#6102519)
It feels like they have more than enough guys to build a great main event but often don't have the right guys in that picture
a lot of people are going to point at cm punk being the reason why AEW went off the rails, but i'd argue there are (at least) two even more damning examples of why AEW will (eventually) go the way it will:


-- the blackpool combat club kneecapping bryan danielson's outstanding heel turn
he went from doing the best work of his career (not faint praise, btw) to jobbing out for daniel garcia wheeler utah, in about 6 months. it's ####### disgraceful.

-- whatever the #### happened to adam cole
that guy could not have been more over when he debuted, he could have been a main event player for AEW, but instead we got what we got. he was buried within 5 minutes of showing up, and then for the next 6 months, he rode ##### for the EVPs.


cm punk doing what cm punk did is an act of...well, cthulu. but AEW turning two of their hottest angles into utter dogshit: that's how you kill your audience.
   2563. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: October 27, 2022 at 01:07 PM (#6102816)
Denise 'Flying In A Dream' Salcedo @_denisesalcedo
"Punk's locker room door was 'kicked in" & accidentally hit Punk's dog, Larry, in the face. At a pre-scheduled veterinarian appointment a few days later, Punk was informed that two of Larry's teeth had been knocked loose & had to be removed."

Read More: https://wrestlinginc.com/1073053/cm-punks-dog-injured-and-more-on-aew-all-out-fallout-exclusive/?utm_campaign=clip
   2564. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: November 07, 2022 at 09:31 AM (#6104618)
For as much as I don't want to like them, the Paul brothers have proved themselves legit athletes. Logan looked *good* against Reigns, be interesting to see if he goes full time with the WWE.
   2565. aberg Posted: November 07, 2022 at 10:39 AM (#6104628)
For as much as I don't want to like them, the Paul brothers have proved themselves legit athletes. Logan looked *good* against Reigns, be interesting to see if he goes full time with the WWE.


That's a perfect description. I keep trying to come up with reasons not to enjoy Logan's stuff in WWE and I can't help myself. He's outstanding. It's appropriate that he's working with HBK because he has that kind of obnoxious, overconfident swagger that Michaels had in the mid-90s. The match on Saturday reminded me of some of HBK's early matches with Undertaker. Not as good as that classic HIAC, but the generally feeling of the match and contrast in styles was familiar.
   2566. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 07, 2022 at 01:58 PM (#6104662)
AEW dynamite ratings from november 2:

- 1st segment kicked off at 1.1MM viewers
- 150K people turned the show off when jeff jarrett showed up dressed like sting (yes, that is a thing that happened in 2022).
- 100K of them came back to see the acclaimed and billy gunn.
- then 150K people left when chris jericho showed up with colt cabana.
- another 100K people left because of the women's division.
- and yet another 100K people left because samoa joe vs brian cage was put into the main event, for whatever ####### reason.
- final segment of the night: 750K.
- overall rating: 910K viewers


no ftr.
no MJF.
no wardlow.
no danielson.

no ratings.


#bookeroftheyear
   2567. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 07, 2022 at 03:24 PM (#6104686)
I wish New Jack and Mustafa Saed were still around to work a long program with the Paul brothers.
   2568. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: November 15, 2022 at 09:59 AM (#6105615)
It’ll be interesting what kind of reaction The Elite get when the return to Dynamite & if the ratings will improve any as a result.
   2569. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 15, 2022 at 12:57 PM (#6105639)
It’ll be interesting what kind of reaction The Elite get when the return to Dynamite & if the ratings will improve any as a result.
i expect to see a dead cat bounce last a few weeks, followed by a relatively quick return to the current state of ratings apathy.
   2570. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 21, 2022 at 12:13 PM (#6106298)
NOT ass boy @theaustingunn
kid wants to be a Gunn so bad
Jungleboy @boy_myth_legend
I don’t know… I think I prefer being booked on the PPVs.
colten gunn @coltengunn
i guess if we changed with the bucks and stayed up until 6 am with the boss we could get a spot too
   2571. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 06, 2022 at 05:03 PM (#6108323)
The PWI Tag Team 100

1. The Usos (Jey Uso & Jimmy Uso) - WWE
2. FTR (Dax Harwood & Cash Wheeler) - AEW/ROH/NJPW/AAA
3. The Briscoes (Jay Briscoe & Mark Briscoe) - ROH/IMPACT Wrestling
4. Death Triangle (Penta El Zero Miedo, Rey Fenix, & PAC) - AEW
5. Hazuki & Koguma - STARDOM
6. RK-Bro (Randy Orton & Matt Riddle) - WWE
7. The OC (Karl Anderson & Luke Gallows) - WWE/IMPACT/NJPW
8. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) - AEW
9. The Hex (Allysin Kay & Marti Belle) - NWA
10. Violence is Forever (Kevin Ku & Dominic Garrini) - Independent wrestling

   2572. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 06, 2022 at 05:11 PM (#6108324)
Brandon Thurston @BrandonThurston
The entire history of AEW Rampage on TNT up to this point.
10-11 pm airings only, excluding preemptions.
https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1600166124003303424

Brandon Thurston @BrandonThurston
This is Dynamite's lowest P18-49 in its normal time slot since March 31, 2021, late in the Wednesday Night War while opposed by NXT. P2+ slightly down from last week.

No Showbuzz data yet.
   2573. aberg Posted: December 07, 2022 at 01:38 AM (#6108426)
I feel like some of the decline in AEW is just vibes. It was fun for them to be the alternative to the monoculture, especially when out of touch Vince was the emblem of that monoculture. Now, WWE has moved in a less out of touch direction, AEW has established itself enough that it doesn't have the new car smell, and we have also seen some of their own internal flaws. Even if the product is comparable to what it was the first 18 months, it just doesn't occupy the same space in the wrestling world.
   2574. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 07, 2022 at 08:50 AM (#6108447)
I feel like some of the decline in AEW is just vibes. It was fun for them to be the alternative to the monoculture, especially when out of touch Vince was the emblem of that monoculture. Now, WWE has moved in a less out of touch direction, AEW has established itself enough that it doesn't have the new car smell, and we have also seen some of their own internal flaws. Even if the product is comparable to what it was the first 18 months, it just doesn't occupy the same space in the wrestling world.

"i immediately regret this decision" is a kind of vibe.

   2575. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 08, 2022 at 11:43 AM (#6108718)
AEW to miro:

'creative has nothing for you'
   2576. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 08, 2022 at 11:49 AM (#6108722)
to be fair to AEW, there's almost no functional difference between miro, jake thager, big cass, lance archer and malakai black.

miro's not the worst wrestler in that group, but that's 5 guys fighting for 1, maybe 2, spots on a roster that has 100+ too many "wrestlers".
   2577. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 10, 2022 at 01:42 AM (#6108973)
Ring of Honor World Championship Match: Chris Jericho (c) vs. Claudio Castagnoli
Ring of Honor Women’s World Championship: Mercedes Martinez (c) vs. Athena
Ring of Honor World Tag Team Championship: Double Dog Collar Match: FTR (c) vs. Briscoe Brothers
Ring of Honor Pure Championship Match: Daniel Garcia (c) vs. Wheeler Yuta
Ring of Honor Television Championship Match: Samoa Joe (c) vs. Juice Robinson
Ring of Honor World Six-Man Championship: Dalton Castle and The Boys (c) vs. Gates of Agony and Brian Cage
Shane Taylor and JD Griffey vs. Swerve in Our Glory

FTR vs. the briscoes was announced, literally, 2 days ago. without that last minute addition, this card would have been a colossal ####### dumpster fire. with it, it's still pretty terrible. only 2 other matches on the card that feature TV-caliber talent (not even PPV-caliber talent; just TV-caliber talent), and 3 of the wrestlers in those matches have x-pac heat, at least as far as i'm concerned.


if the night ends with claudio and the briscoes standing tall, then maybe ROH will have something worth watching in the future, but this ####### pig slop is not even close to meriting a 40 dollar iPPV pricetag.
   2578. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 11, 2022 at 12:23 AM (#6109095)
if the night ends with claudio and the briscoes standing tall, then maybe ROH will have something worth watching in the future
well, ####.
   2579. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: December 11, 2022 at 02:00 PM (#6109109)
Ahead of the ROH event, Tony Khan said Dynamite & Rampage will be featuring less ROH. Brian Last pointed out that of course means Chris Jericho will be dropping the ROH title & he was right.
   2580. Krusty Posted: December 11, 2022 at 05:18 PM (#6109114)

Ahead of the ROH event, Tony Khan said Dynamite & Rampage will be featuring less ROH.


I'm actually vaguely excited for the nu-ROH that's relaunching on Honor Club.

If the Khan-era PPVs are any indication, it'll be a poorly booked workrate paradise and there's a certain kind of fun to be had with a promotion like that. Almost like... Ring of Honor.
   2581. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 11, 2022 at 11:03 PM (#6109125)
I'm actually vaguely excited for the nu-ROH that's relaunching on Honor Club.

If the Khan-era PPVs are any indication, it'll be a poorly booked workrate paradise and there's a certain kind of fun to be had with a promotion like that. Almost like... Ring of Honor.
a "poorly booked workrate paradise" seems like a mismatch for a promotion that just put its titles on claudio, the briscoes and joe.

that's not to say those guys can't work, but they all have 15+ years in wrestling at this point, and their strengths are in long-term storytelling and throwing up a once-every-3-months slobberknocker. if these guys get poorly booked, the promotion is DoA.
   2582. aberg Posted: December 12, 2022 at 03:32 AM (#6109135)
I only saw the highlights on twitter, but Jericho tapping out to the big swing was really funny.

I also found the Iron Survivor match format very sports entertaining. NXT is drawing me in now that they have had time to establish some of the new characters that debuted en masse a year ago. I can finally tell the difference between a Grayson Waller and a Duke Hudson.
   2583. RJ in TO Posted: December 12, 2022 at 01:25 PM (#6109187)
The ROH PPV was fine, overall. Obviously, the top of the card stuff was very good, but the ending to the A.R. Fox/Blake Christian vs. La Facción Ingobernable was kind of a mess and felt more like the sort of setup you'd get to lead into the PPV than the actual PPV, and JD Griffey really seemed over his head in his match with Shane Taylor against Swerve in our Glory (and the continued tease of the Lee/Swerve feud also felt more like a setup for a PPV than an actual PPV). Also, I'm not sure if anyone cared about the Mercedes Martinez/Athena match at all, even if it was a solid performance. On the plus side, the Trios tag match was a lot of fun, as is everything which involves Dalton Castle, the headline match was also good, and FTR/Briscos continued to be top notch feuding.

I did feel sorry for the wrestlers taking part in the Zero Hour lead-in, as the crowd was really sparse at that point, especially for the Jeff Cobb/Mascara Dorado match, to the point where you could not only hear each individual person when they yelled, but clearly pick out each individual person in the stands that was doing the yelling.
   2584. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 15, 2022 at 06:54 PM (#6109656)
i had a dream last night about hank hill running his own backyard e-fed.

i need to stop doomscrolling ...
   2585. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 18, 2022 at 01:03 PM (#6110053)
so here's a question:


if WWE wanted to relaunch the NWO, who are the 3 guys they do it with?


keep in mind:
- hogan was a megastar who hadn't had a major heel run in 15+ years.
- nash was a 7' tall WWF world champion (when that kind of title may still have meant something)
- hall was a world champion caliber star of his own right (even though he hadn't had a title run yet)


bonus points if you want to fill in these roles:
- scott steiner
- the giant
- randy savage
- x-pac
- virgil
   2586. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 18, 2022 at 01:32 PM (#6110057)
answering for myself:

- i don't think reigns or lesnar fit. WWE's main event has revolved around both of them for so long that there's no reason for either of them to be in this kind of angle. they aren't the angle; they're the reason the angle exists.

- much as i love FTR, they're not at this level.


my main candidates:

- punk: obviously
- cena: a heel cena could be ####### fire.
- goldberg: his work rate can be protected in a tag-team, while still being a beast. plus it brings his career arc into a full-circle thing.
- edge: like goldberg, he can be protected in a tag-team. unlike goldberg, he can be an asset on the mic.
- MJF: his mic-work fits, and he could be the work-rate half of a tag team that builds him into an actual superstar.
- bryan danielson: as the working half of a tag-team, he's pretty ideal.
- bron steiner: probably too early for him, but maybe not.
- walter: not big enough. yet.
- paul london: there's your x-pac heat.
- lashley: eh, if he was going to be a thing, he would already have been a thing.
- cody: i don't hate it...
- sami zayn: oh yeah, i can see that working, especially against a babyface bloodline.
- kevin owens: eh, i just don't see him as a joiner.
- rollins: meh
- orton: hmmm...
- robert roode: ooh, i like him, but he doesn't bring enough gravitas.
   2587. aberg Posted: December 22, 2022 at 06:12 AM (#6110496)
if WWE wanted to relaunch the NWO, who are the 3 guys they do it with?


Can you really do an nWo in WWE? Wouldn't it have to be in AEW since the idea was that they were outsiders from a bigger company coming in to take over?

If they were going to do something like that in AEW, it would probably be something along the lines of:

Hogan- Ambrose
Nash- McIntyre or Lashley
Hall- Rollins, Balor, Coy, Adam Cole

Ambrose, Reigns, and Rollins would work pretty well as a faction, if you want to follow that archetype.
   2588. aberg Posted: December 22, 2022 at 06:15 AM (#6110497)
Here's the long form with actual selections made for each one.

Hogan- Ambrose
Nash- McIntyre
Hall- Balor

Scott Steiner- Wardlow
The Giant- Strowman
Randy Savage- Edge
Xpac- Sammy Guevara
Virgil- Sonjay Dutt

Then you bring back Cody as the Sting-like savior and have the Sting/Luger frenemy angle with MJF.
   2589. aberg Posted: December 22, 2022 at 06:15 AM (#6110498)
And Scott Norton is Brian Cage.
   2590. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 22, 2022 at 07:42 AM (#6110501)
Can you really do an nWo in WWE? Wouldn't it have to be in AEW since the idea was that they were outsiders from a bigger company coming in to take over?
i mean, the reason i brought it up is because i randomly got the NWO guitar riff stuck in my head. i don't think AEW can touch that.

Hogan- Ambrose
Nash- McIntyre or Lashley
Hall- Rollins, Balor, Coy, Adam Cole

ho kogan: 6'6", 275 lbs.
nash: 6'10, 320 lbs.
hall: 6'7, 280 lbs.


moxley: 6'2", 220 lbs.
mcintyre: 6'5", 260 lbs.
rollins: 6'1", 220 lbs.


i know wrestling has changed, but if you can't combine that kind of physical size with main event headliner draw at the gate, you're not recreating the NWO; you're recreating NWO2000 (jeff jarrett says 'hello').
   2591. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 22, 2022 at 08:26 AM (#6110502)
after having a few days to mull it over, i think i'd go with this formulation:

cm punk
bryan danielson
edge


these guys don't have the biggest bodies either, but they are three redassed greybeards that have 4+ decades of combined main event drawing power behind them (along with 5+ dozen concussions/neck fusions).

they have mass appeal that can draw beyond the IWC neckbeards, they have amazing mic skills with a wide range of character traits they can draw from, and they can still flat go in the ring when they need to.


as for the hangers on:
- steiner: eddie kingston
- savage: sami zayn (he's kind of a weird fit as a greyassed redbeard, but i think it works)
- the giant: eh, stroman's fine.
- xpac: gimme ilya dragunov (he's tiny, but spunky, and he can take one hell of a beating)
- virgil: how about the blue guy.


also, fwiw:
i think sasha banks would be a perfect fit for this kind of group.
   2592. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 23, 2022 at 02:25 AM (#6110646)
i'm gonna live blog this as it happens....


- ricochet looks good. springy.

- i don't like gunther's new (to me) music. the straight classical/instrumental version he used to have was more distinct and more oppressive than whatever this numetal #### is. it sounds generic and cheap.

- i miss vickie guerrero saying "innerconninenal championship". i really love vickie guerrero.

- okay, the match is on.

- good cat and mouse stuff. good mat work. gunther is playing the heel beautifully.

- the crowd is definitely being sweetened in post-production. but ricochet did get a bit of a pop for his first comeback.

- ricochet is firing the crowd up. good work from him to get them off their asses a bit.

- and we've hit the first commercial.

- the crowd still sounds like it's being propped up by the production truck.

- i don't hate michael cole nearly as much as i remember. i don't think i like that.

- oh, nevermind; "he's going for the STFU".....never change, tiny man.

- these smarmy jackasses smiling in the front row really kill the atmosphere on television. there's potential for a major angle here down the line. plant someone in the front row and have a heel snatch him over the post and beat his ass for smiling at him.

- the crowd's starting to heat up at least.

- those smarmy jackasses got on their feet as soon as the action got out onto the floor. we'll see if they stay engaged. i'm not optimistic.

- and another commercial break.

- the crowds legitimately into this now. they're on their feet, cheering for ricochet. it's not just post-production sweetening the audio anymore.

- richochet with a two count, then goes to the top rope, hits a shooting star press, and gets a huge pop from the crowd on the near fall.

- "this is awesome" chants. gtfoohwtbs.

- gunther hits a huge chop into a power bomb into a 2 count, and the crowd pops for ricochet on the kick out.

- gunther lands a nasty slap on ricochet's jaw, hits a vertical side slam, gets the pin, and gets a reasonably mixed reaction.


that was a pretty great television match. 20+ minutes that felt like 10, great story, great action, great finish. very impressive work.
   2593. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 26, 2022 at 01:53 PM (#6110921)
   2594. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 29, 2022 at 03:05 PM (#6111198)
Eddie Kingston #BlackLivesMatter @MadKing1981
More and more #### boys are coming into @AEW
Eddie Kingston #BlackLivesMatter @MadKing1981
So many worried little ego maniacs just texted me lololol.
   2595. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 03, 2023 at 07:50 PM (#6111740)
UFC president Dana White slapped and pushed his wife Anne White in a Cabo San Lucas nightclub on New Year’s Eve, as shown in a video published on Monday by TMZ. The clip shows the couple arguing before Anne puts her head in her hands. When Dana grabs her hand, Anne slaps him. Dana then slaps her twice and pushes her before turning his back to the camera.
[...]
“There’s one thing that you never bounce back from and that’s putting your hands on a woman,” White told Fox Sports Live at the time. “Been that way in the UFC since we started here. You don’t bounce back from putting your hands on a woman.”
[...]
“Dana White and his wife got physical with each other,” TMZ’s tweet read. Producers Harvey Levin and Charles Latibeaudiere, who interviewed White, seemed primarily concerned with how quickly the fight ended and how drunk the couple was, both of which minimize what happened here. It’s the softest possible interrogation of someone who admits to hitting their spouse because there’s no way to deny it, and it ends with White being given the space to chuckle about how he was too drunk to really remember hitting Anne at all. If Dana White were one of his own less marketable fighters, he’d be out of a job today.

   2596. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 05, 2023 at 07:06 PM (#6112077)
Former WWE CEO Vince McMahon is planning a return to the pro-wrestling promotion in order to sell off the company.
[...]
As first reported by the Wall Street Journal, McMahon has informed WWE he will be electing himself to the board, as well as Michelle Wilson and George Barrios, former WWE co-presidents and directors. McMahon, who retains majority voting power at WWE through his shares in the company, plans to be named executive chairman, pending board approval, which was not given during a previous move made to reinstate McMahon.
[...]
WSJ’s sources say McMahon has told the board “unless he has direct involvement as executive chairman from the outset of a strategic review, he won’t support or approve any media-rights deal or sale.”



link
   2597. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 06, 2023 at 12:38 PM (#6112161)
Awful Announcing @awfulannouncing
Stephen A. Smith warned Dana White before addressing wife slap on First Take: ‘He’s a friend’
http://dlvr.it/SgNlW3
Jeff Wagenheim @jeffwagenheim
We've been told to not write anything incendiary on social media about the Dana White situation, and I understand why and have abided by that. I just ask y'all to understand that some of us at ESPN do not have as soft a take as this on domestic violence.
Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz @LeBatardShow
"Endeavor, the parent company – no comment. ESPN, the broadcast partner – no comment. UFC – no comment." – Dan

"They are banking on the fact, or the hope, anyway, that this will largely go away." – @lthomasnews about Endeavor and ESPN's silence on Dana White slapping his wife.
   2598. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 09, 2023 at 11:02 PM (#6112636)
2507. Scott Lange Posted: September 16, 2022 at 12:00 AM (#6096386)
Hey stig, remember how you were writing AEW's epitaph based on last week's 2022/2021 Dynamite ratings comparison? Why no update this week? Oh right:

9/14/22 - 1,175,000
9/15/21 - 1,173,000
AEW dynamite ratings from november 2:

- 1st segment kicked off at 1.1MM viewers
- 150K people turned the show off when jeff jarrett showed up dressed like sting (yes, that is a thing that happened in 2022).
- 100K of them came back to see the acclaimed and billy gunn.
- then 150K people left when chris jericho showed up with colt cabana.
- another 100K people left because of the women's division.
- and yet another 100K people left because samoa joe vs brian cage was put into the main event, for whatever ####### reason.
- final segment of the night: 750K.
- overall rating: 910K viewers

AEW dynamite ratings from january 4:

- 1st segment kicked off at 1.03MM viewers
- they immediately lost ~120K people with jericho at the start of the show.
- they bled out another ~80K through the end of the first hour.
+ 30K came back for MJF and danielson.
- another ~100K left because: women.
+ 50K people came back for the main event between samoa joe and darby allien.
- final segment of the night: 833K.
- overall rating: 864K viewers
   2599. aberg Posted: January 11, 2023 at 03:52 AM (#6112786)
WWE was really good for the last 6 months for the first time in 8-10 years. We just can't have nice things. I joked with some friends that it wouldn't be beyond Vince to fire his own daughter to retake control of the company, but it was definitely a joke and it seems to have turned out to be real. The Saudi takeover rumors are disgusting.
   2600. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 11, 2023 at 08:47 AM (#6112792)
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