I've been to quite a few live shows. These are the PPV shows I have seen live:

-2008 No Way Out in Vegas. Really fun. HHH and Undertaker won 2 really good chamber matches.
-2008 Backlash in Baltimore. Main event was HHH/Cena/JBL/Orton fourway. Best match was Michaels-Batista with Jericho as ref.
-2009 No Way Out in Seattle. Card was pretty weak other than the chamber matches.
-2009 Night of Champions in Philadelphia. Maybe the highlight of the Punk-Hardy feud.
-Wrestlemania 26 in Phoenix. Definitely the coolest experience overall.
-2011 Over the Limit in Seattle. Part of the great Orton-Christian series of matches. Otherwise at a low point shortly before Punk's breakout.
-2014 Royal Rumble in Phoenix. It was so much fun being in the Rumble crowd. We had bad seats but it was still a great time.

I believe the end of the Sting-Hogan match at Starcade 97 had to be a result of Hogan's "creative control" clause, which was just asinine for any promoter to acquiesce to. So you hold your number one babyface out of action for more than a year, offer an incredible build up to the match at your biggest PPV, and the babyface can't even get a clean win?!

Then the title is held up, and when Sting gets the win over Hogan two months later, it's because Savage runs in to knock out Hogan with a spray paint can. Unforgivable booking. Hogan just would not put over Sting. Period.


Piper would never do a job for Hogan - Hogan recently mentioned this on Jericho's podcast - and while he could have cost himself money, I say good for him, because Hogan would have likely never reciprocated.

I was reading the Death of WCW and they mentioned Arquette didn't want to win the title (smart) and tried to refuse it, but they made him. I've always wondered how they could have "made him" win the title.

Well, he's pretty scrawny. I imagine it wouldn't be hard for some giant muscly dudes to push him around.

I believe the end of the Sting-Hogan match at Starcade 97 had to be a result of Hogan's "creative control" clause, which was just asinine for any promoter to acquiesce to. So you hold your number one babyface out of action for more than a year, offer an incredible build up to the match at your biggest PPV, and the babyface can't even get a clean win?!

In Eric Bischoff's execrable book he goes into just a bit of detail here. He says Hogan was initially fine with doing the clean job, but as the date of Starcade 97 approached he started to be more vocal that Sting was disrespecting his role and WCW by not doing enough to keep himself in shape - he'd lost muscle mass, wasn't tan, etc., and began to threaten to refuse to do the job. Bischoff said the repugnant fiasco we saw was the compromise, and faulted Nick Patrick, the referee, for not doing the "fast count" properly, although he was very explicit that he doesn't blame Patrick for anything other than poor timing.

I believe the end of the Sting-Hogan match at Starcade 97 had to be a result of Hogan's "creative control" clause, which was just asinine for any promoter to acquiesce to

But if you believe Hogan on the Monday night wars show (LOL) he says he never used his creative control clause till 2000!

Hey, he usually comes out looking pretty good.

That was kind of my point :) There's this incredible union of (1) Hogan having a lot of creative control (2) making himself look really good in the process and (3) being toxic to the organization he's part of.

I guess it comes from Hogan providing an immediate lift to the organization upon joining, but then eroding it without anyone ever having the balls to screw him / take away the book.

Well, Vince McMahon would, which is probably why Hogan left.

[304] Why do I think Hogan never intending to put Sting over cleanly, and manufactured a reason to back out of his "agreement", and I'm not surprised that Bischoff threw someone under the bus?

Live PPVs:

Summerslam 1991 - what could my father, no wrestling fan, possibly have thought during and after that...thing. A wedding was the main event!!

Unforgiven 2000 - no real memory of the specifics. Notable because I believe Raw moved to TNN the next night. My college didn't get the channel, so that was the end of that chapter and I've never consistently watched the product since.

Wrestlemania NY/NJ (because I think that's its real name and not 29!!) - I guess it's nice to know I've been to a Wrestlemania, but a really bland affair with only Punk/Undertaker as a highlight (and that had no/a horrible build). I've been meaning to watch Rock/Cena II on the network, but don't have the heart (my time is clearly better served watching #### like The Klique episode of The Monday Night War!!).

Between 1998-2000 I went to a few RAWs, one Nitro and one WWF house show. Random memories: (i) night after Wrestlemania 15; (ii) the night after that with Austin/Show tearing down titantron; (iii) Hogan's presidential announcement, a classic WCW mixed-tag main event that meant nothing and I think Goldberg/Jericho ending their feud in the aisle; (iv) Brooklyn Brawler wrestling the Rock at an MSG RAW?; and (v) seeing Mark Henry and Shamrock at a strip club after a Syracuse house show.

Edit: according to wiki...Unforgiven featured professional wrestling matches that involved different wrestlers from pre-existing feuds, plots, and storylines that were played out on Raw is War and SmackDown—World Wrestling Federation's (WWF) television programs. Wrestlers portrayed a villain or a hero as they followed a series of events that built tension, and culminated in a wrestling match or series of matches. Hmmm.

To hear Page tell it, Arquette was a big wrestling fan, and respected the business, which is why he wanted nothing to do with the title. Gave all the money he made from it to Melanie Pillman.

Hogan is shockingly lying about Piper never jobbing to him, as he's done it several times, including in their most recent match in '03:

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/roddy-piper-21.html?opp=19

I'll always believe that Patrick was on the take from Hogan on that Starcade count. It was almost a slow count.

"In Eric Bischoff's execrable book he goes into just a bit of detail here. He says Hogan was initially fine with doing the clean job, but as the date of Starcade 97 approached he started to be more vocal that Sting was disrespecting his role and WCW by not doing enough to keep himself in shape - he'd lost muscle mass, wasn't tan, etc., and began to threaten to refuse to do the job."

Wow. I had not heard that. I think it is a manufactured excuse. I'd love to know what other matches in which Hogan explicitly invoked his creative control clause. I'm pretty sure the Michaels match at Summerslam 2005 was one of those instances as Michaels famously made a mockery of the match by overselling.

"Hogan is shockingly lying about Piper never jobbing to him, as he's done it several times, including in their most recent match in '03"

He was talking about during their main run in WWF in '85. Piper was known at that time for not doing jobs.

I think I've been convinced that the best Rumble-Mania booking is:
- Lesnar and Bryan win Sunday, Bryan beats Lesnar at Mania, Rollins cashes in. Nuclear heat for Rollins and sets up several PPVs of great matches between the two.
- Reigns vs Cena - Don't quite know how you set this up yet (Reigns as the voice of the fans tired with Cena?), but gives Reigns a passing the torch win without needing to carry the company quite yet. Good way to get the fans behind Reigns. A great thing about Cena is that he serves as the heel against any face, without needing to sacrifice his merch selling ability with a true heel turn. Cena also knows how to pace a main event, so he can probably carry Reigns to a good-but-not-great match.

How great would a card be of

- Bryan/Lesnar
- Cena/Reigns
- Orton/Rollins
- HHH/Sting
- Wyatt/Undertaker

be? Still needs spots for Ziggler, Ambrose, Rusev, a tag match, a Divas match, etc. But that seems like a great foundation.

Another likely scenario is Cena has the belt to face Reigns, with Bryan still facing Lesnar. Has the problem with how do you naturally setup the latter pairing? Seems like Bryan would probably still be feuding with the Authority (because they presumably screw him at the Rumble), and Lesnar is no longer on good terms with them. Have Bryan issue a challenge and have Heyman/Lesnar mock it but eventually accept because Brock's angry and wants to smash something people love? It would be a great match if they can set it up. I don't know if they want Rollins cashing in on Reigns and ruining the big torch pass. That's a big reason why I like Lesnar/Bryan for the belt. Bryan doesn't need an un-tarnished Wrestlemania moment after getting the big one last year.

The other scenario I've seen bandied about is Cena-Bryan for the title, Reigns-Lesnar. Setting it up is easy. We know the Cena-Bryan pairing is likely to be a great match, I'm not convinced about the latter. The internet would likely spend the next two months crapping themselves in fear of Cena getting his win back.

I think we're likely still getting Reigns-Lesnar for the belt, and I'm not sure how you pair up the other main event guys. Orton seems like the right guy for Rollins. Either Bryan or Cena could face Rusev, but who does the other one get? Ambrose/Ziggler/etc aren't booked to be on their level, and the guys that are (Wyatt/HHH) are presumably busy (and have already been done). Bryan/Cena face each other without the title on the line? How do you book that?

Rollins can still cash in on Sunday, and makes a fine opponent for either Reigns or Bryan. But he doesn't seem to be booked as Wrestlemania Main Event material quite yet. Getting a win over Orton and then cashing in seems like a better path.

I don't think Reigns and Rollins should face each other at Mania without Ambrose along for the ride. That should totally be set up for next year.

There are a lot of good scenarios. As much as I don't want it to happen (yet), even Reigns ending Mania as champion probably comes with a good card. I'm more hyped for this Sunday than I've been for any PPV since Mania, despite it essentially being a two match show.

I think I've been convinced that the best Rumble-Mania booking is:
- Lesnar and Bryan win Sunday, Bryan beats Lesnar at Mania, Rollins cashes in. Nuclear heat for Rollins and sets up several PPVs of great matches between the two.

I think this is probably a good way to go. At the same time, I think at some point, if WWE is going to give Bryan the ball they need to let him win the title and have a solid reign to see how it goes. A Rollins-Bryan series would be a hell of a lot better way for Bryan to leave Mania than last year when he was going to work with Kane.

I am super excited to be going to the show on Sunday.

I'm pretty sure the Michaels match at Summerslam 2005 was one of those instances as Michaels famously made a mockery of the match by overselling.

I've heard that the way this was originally set up was that Hogan would beat Michaels, and then they would have a rematch at the next PPV (or soon after) where Michaels would beat Hogan. But Michaels sussed out that Hogan had no intention of upholding the second half of that agreement and only said he would to get Michaels to agree to do the job at Summerslam, and so Michaels went out and made a big joke of the match.

I think Hogan's creative control goes back to the early 1990s, when he wouldn't let Flair beat him cleanly when Flair came to the WWF. (Depending on who you believe, Hogan also blocked Sgt. Slaughter from getting a title run back in the 1980s, which was one reason Slaughter left and went to the AWA - but I believe that was more on McMahon than Hogan at that point, since Hogan had only been a champion-level for a year or two.)

Events I've attended:
- SummerSlam '94- A one-match show, but the Bret Hart-Owen Hart cage match is so good. The Undertaker-Undertaker main event was probably one of the worst PPV main events ever. I think this was the only WWF event held at the United Center.
- WrestleMania 13- Another one-match show, but of course Hart-Austin is a classic. I was still a Hart fan at the time and 12-year old me was dismayed that the crowd was completely against Bret. IIRC this match was before his complete heel turn.
- The Nitro where Jericho cut his Man of 1004 Holds promo.
- I've been to a few WWF/E house shows and Raw's but they've all been pretty nondescript.

Lesnar and Bryan win Sunday, Bryan beats Lesnar at Mania, Rollins cashes in. Nuclear heat for Rollins and sets up several PPVs of great matches between the two.

I agree this is the best, but I get the feeling that they're setting up for Lesnar winning on Sunday and Rollins cashing in right after the match. It's hard to tell because I don't think it's clear what (if any) long-term schedule Lesnar is willing to agree to at this point.

Bryan/Lesnar transitioning into Bryan/Rollins makes so much sense that I can only assume the WWE would screw it up.

(And I'd love to see Rollins transition from working with the Authority to working with Heyman after that happens, so that we can phase out this Authority story line. They laid the groundwork for that with the Smackdown promo last week.)

The WM card could be stacked. I might add:

An NXT match (something to show off Itami/Owens/Zayn in some combination, particularly to kick off the card would really get the crowd going)
Tag Match - it would be nice to see them push Cesaro/Kidd into a title match here.
Maybe Ambrose/Barrett for the IC title?
At some point you've got to start pushing Rusev up the card. Could you do Rusev/Orton? Or Rusev/Sheamus?
Some Divas match

That puts you at 9 or 10 matches on the card, and we're still missing Ziggler, Kane, Big Show, Harper, Rowan, Gold/Stardust. Short of another Battle Royale, someone's missing out.

Where's Miz and Mizdow??

I assume there will be a Miz and Mizdow falling out at some point. The fans are itching to turn Sandow face.

For that matter, I assume Goldust and Stardust will fall out one of these days, letting Rhodes return to his old persona and/or go back into retirement. Sure looked like they were heading to break them up last year, and then not so much. And can anyone think of a better late career resurgence than what Dustin Rhodes has done in the last couple of years? He spent most of the 2000s bouncing between indy leagues, Japan, TNA, injury, and comedy nostalgia appearances for the WWE. Then, almost 44 years old, he comes back full-time to WWE and does some of the best work of his career. Somebody brewed up the fountain of youth.

I'm extremely excited about the Rumble.

Aztec Warfare > Rumble

Lucha Underground!

And can anyone think of a better late career resurgence than what Dustin Rhodes has done in the last couple of years?

He's punched his Hall of Fame ticket.

- Lesnar and Bryan win Sunday, Bryan beats Lesnar at Mania, Rollins cashes in. Nuclear heat for Rollins and sets up several PPVs of great matches between the two.

that's too screwy for my liking. if rollins is gonna cash in, he should do it over lesnar.

i like setting up a rollins/bryan feud, but instead of burning through it right after wrestlemania, it'd be better to tease it into summerslam.

i'd still rather have bryan face ambrose at wrestlemania. it won't be the main event but it'll be a showstopper. with undertaker, shawn michaels, chris jericho and cm punk being retired/over the hill/distracted/out of the business, you need someone to take up that mantle.


as for the title, i'd like to see rollins get pinned in the first hour and then cash in MITB on lesnar after the main event. let him hide behind the authority and play a chickenshit heel for a few months so he can build heat leading into a match with bryan at summerslam.

And can anyone think of a better late career resurgence than what Dustin Rhodes has done in the last couple of years?

one thing comes to mind.

Hogan also did the sloooow-motion "sad fallen Hulkster" routine after losing to the Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 5 or 6, until all of the post-match focus and sentiment was back on him instead of the WWE's new champion. Which created the same dynamic that John Cena's been using for many years. Whenever the belt is around Cena's waist, the champ is here. And when the belt is on someone else, the champ is temporarily over there.

When Hogan was about to leave on his Vince v. U.S. steroid sabbatical, he was scheduled to lose the title to Bret Hart, but refused to do so. A year or two later, Hart was champion, Hogan was back, and Hart extracted a measure of revenge by refusing to lose to Hogan. This led to the stupid Wrestlemania event where Hart lost to Yokozuna, which randomly led to a confrontation and impromptu Hogan-Yokozuna title match that Hulk won in 15 seconds.

Small wonder that all of the backstage politics became a riper and richer milieu for the TV show than "wrestling is real."

The pop for Hogan on RAW after his Wrestlemania match against the Rock in Toronto was crazy.

When Hogan was about to leave on his Vince v. U.S. steroid sabbatical, he was scheduled to lose the title to Bret Hart, but refused to do so. A year or two later, Hart was champion, Hogan was back, and Hart extracted a measure of revenge by refusing to lose to Hogan. This led to the stupid Wrestlemania event where Hart lost to Yokozuna, which randomly led to a confrontation and impromptu Hogan-Yokozuna title match that Hulk won in 15 seconds.

Is this right? I thought Hogan refused to lose the title to Hart after Mania, which is why he dropped it to Yokozuna at King of the Ring in 93. Bret got the title originally in late 92, and he was a real surprise pick at the time. Hogan last had the title (prior to Mania 9) in late 91 before they vacated it and put it up at the Rumble. Not sure Bret was being groomed for the title in 91.

Of course, that brings up the question of why would they switch the title from Hart-Yoko-Hogan at Mania if they wanted it right back on Hart. I guess they wanted Hart to pin Hogan but they didn't want Hogan pinning Hart.

326- That's how I remember it too.

[326]That's correct.

And the Cena-Hogan comparison continues to be utter bullshit.

You guys are right, I'm wrong, my timeline was off. Hogan's refusal to drop the belt to Hart happened after the Yokozuna match, not before.

Google says that the Hogan and Hart never had a singles match of any kind in WWF. And that they only had one ever, in 1998 in WCW. Which also had genius booking, with Hart (who had recently aligned with, but then turned against, Hogan's NWO) faking a knee injury midmatch so that Sting would come in to protect Hart, and then replace Hart in the match while Hart was ambulanced away, until Hart was fake-assaulted by other NWO members for no apparent reason, before reviving and doublecrossing Sting, thus revealing that he had only pretended to turn against the NWO, in order to set up this match, sparking a Sting-Hart feud. Ah, Monday Nitro.

That one night just sums it all up doesn't it.

My recollection was that Hart seemingly never got any merchandise of his own in WCW, so he kept wearing Hogan shirt while he was in NWO.

http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/381/078/432/hulk-hogan-tribal-shirt-nwo-wcw-d6e72.JPG

It was awful, not even the NWO B-team were wearing Hogan's gear, just made him look like a pathetic lackey.

Google says that the Hogan and Hart never had a singles match of any kind in WWF. And that they only had one ever, in 1998 in WCW. Which also had genius booking, with Hart (who had recently aligned with, but then turned against, Hogan's NWO) faking a knee injury midmatch so that Sting would come in to protect Hart, and then replace Hart in the match while Hart was ambulanced away, until Hart was fake-assaulted by other NWO members for no apparent reason, before reviving and doublecrossing Sting, thus revealing that he had only pretended to turn against the NWO, in order to set up this match, sparking a Sting-Hart feud. Ah, Monday Nitro.

I've read too many Observers from that time period; I think there was a house show run in 99 (I guess after Owen passed) where Bret came back, unannounced and unadvertised, to wrestle Hogan in a few matches. Even at that time, Hart/Hogan, since it had pretty much never been done, was probably a pretty big drawing match and they did it at a house show and didnt tell anyone till the show started.

That one night just sums it all up doesn't it.

My recollection was that Hart seemingly never got any merchandise of his own in WCW, so he kept wearing Hogan shirt while he was in NWO.

http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/381/078/432/hulk-hogan-tribal-shirt-nwo-wcw-d6e72.JPG

It was awful, not even the NWO B-team were wearing Hogan's gear, just made him look like a pathetic lackey.

my recollection was that hart wasn't around long enough for it to matter. wasn't he injured within 3 weeks and then permanently retired within 6 months (thanks lol)?

One of the many extremely dumb decisions by WCW was not getting Hart on television immediately after the Survivor Series screwjob when he was the hottest name in wrestling.

Yeah, Bret didn't wrestle until 1/98 after the 11/97 screwjob. His first few matches were very good, but they were tangential to the main event storyline. When they did streamline him into the story, he had already lost some momentum and proceeded to lose more by being shoved into the US Title storyline rather than the WCW Title. I suppose that all goes back to the politics with Hogan.

He was healthy enough to wrestle every month for at least the first year he was in WCW. The severe concussion from Goldberg didn't come until the end of 99 at Starcade.

One of the many extremely dumb decisions by WCW was not getting Hart on television immediately after the Survivor Series screwjob when he was the hottest name in wrestling.

As part of the above-mentioned world-class screwup with the booking of Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade 97, Bret Hart's involvement was supposed to be a mirror of the Montreal Screwjob - after Nick Patrick made his "fast" count, Hart ran to the ring yelling, "I'm not going to let this crap happen again!" and waffled Patrick in the spirit of justice!

Of course as we discussed earlier, Patrick gave a normal 3-count, so Hart, by sticking to the script, ended up looking like a crybaby jerkass by blaming the referee for Sting's clean loss. Hard to recover from that. Hogan's ego sunk so many of WCW's prospects, but this single match sunk more than any other single event.

It is kind of funny to think that there was a point in time when WCW had Flair, Sting, Bret, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Hennig, and peak Goldberg, plus a load of wonderful midcard guys like Raven, Regal, Booker T, the Steiners, Finlay, Haku, Kidman, Malenko, Ultimo Dragon, Yuji Nagata, and Juventud, yet they STILL put on garbage shows every week.

I don't think WCW could put him on TV right away; even with the screwjob I think his contract went through 12/1. I think they announced they had signed him the day after the screwjob (they all sang Oh Canada or something) but he wasn't allowed to appear for a few weeks. Which makes Vince's excuse that they had to change the title in Montreal cause they didn't want their champ showing up on WCW TV the next night BS. WCW was pretty incompetent, but I don't see any way in hell Bischoff would not have put Hart on TV the night after the screw job if he was able to.

Of course, the angle with him at Starrcade was terrible.

That one night just sums it all up doesn't it.

The best part is actually the NWO out by the loading dock, laughing evilly into the camera and preventing the ambulance from taking away the "injured" Bret-- because the target of this plot, Sting, couldn't see any of it happen. I guess the best swerve is the one you never see coming, literally.

One of the best pieces of WCW logic is Hulk Hogan panicking at the eerie sight of the Ultimate Warrior in his dressing room mirror. As Eric Bischoff tried to convince Hulk that there was nothing there, Tony Schiavone and Bobby Heenan were saying, "Look, look at that! ...He's in the mirror!" And of course everyone watching at home could see the Warrior right there in the mirror. But the takeaway was supposed to be that Hulk Hogan was losing his mind and hallucinating because of the Warrior's masterful mind games had gotten to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78XbX5tVFeY

Thanks for reminding me of Warrior v. Hogan II, with the blowoff finish of Hogan going over after a chairshot. That's a build-up match, not a blow-off.

And in reading about that I also get to remember how WCW cut off their main event from their PPV customers.

...did WCW do anything right for about 5 years? Like, a single thing?

did WCW do anything right for about 5 years? Like, a single thing?

Nope! Like there was that time that Vince Russo told the wrestlers "If you're not on board, you can leave" so Eddie, Benoit, Malenko, and Saturn shrugged and went over to the WWF. They were just the dumbest in every way.

That wasn't Russo, it was Bill Busch(I think?) It was actually right after Russo was ousted in favor of a committee led by Kevin Sullivan, who put the title on Benoit, only to watch him leave with the title.

I think there 3 or 4 others that tried to leave too, but Vince didn't want them.(Douglas for sure, blanking on others) They let Raven walk under similar circumstances a few months prior, only he had a noncompete so he said ok and went back to ECW for a year.

I just assume everything was Russo's fault, because I'm okay with being wrong the 1% of the time it was someone else.

Apropos of nothing, but I always thought the biggest money making angle in history could have been a 1984-85 feud between Hogan and Nikita Koloff - while there was still a Cold War. It would have required Vince to get Koloff from the NWA, but Koloff was terrifying as a heel and extremely, um, large. Koloff destroying Hogan in a first match and taking the title, then a rematch preceded by training videos of Hogan looking to avenge his loss, would have trumped Hogan-Andre or Hogan-Savage as box office draws, I believe.

That's just not how WWF was booked then, unfortunately. The second bad guy to win and hold the title for as long as a month was Iraqi Sgt. Slaughter. (Unless you count the last two months of Mega Powers Randy Savage's reign.) WWF was almost 30 years old when Slaughter won.

Think of mid-80s Roddy Piper's standing in the WWF. And he never held the championship for half a minute. If Koloff had ever come to WWF, we all know how it would have gone: the Real American would have leg-dropped that big stinky Russian bear.


Thanks for reminding me of Warrior v. Hogan II, with the blowoff finish of Hogan going over after a chairshot. That's a build-up match, not a blow-off.

Don't forget that Davey Boy Smith's career was shortened because they installed a trapdoor in their ring for Ultimate Warrior to make a surprise magic entrance at the end of the night. But everybody had to wrestle around it until he did, Smith got dropped onto the trapdoor, and ended up with spinal damage.

Koloff destroying Hogan in a first match and taking the title, then a rematch preceded by training videos of Hogan looking to avenge his loss, would have trumped Hogan-Andre or Hogan-Savage as box office draws, I believe.

No, that's not wrestling. That's Rocky IV.

Edit: I take that back. Koloff would have had to literally kill JYD in the ring, then set up the match with Hogan.

It is kind of funny to think that there was a point in time when WCW had Flair, Sting, Bret, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Hennig, and peak Goldberg, plus a load of wonderful midcard guys like Raven, Regal, Booker T, the Steiners, Finlay, Haku, Kidman, Malenko, Ultimo Dragon, Yuji Nagata, and Juventud, yet they STILL put on garbage shows every week.

I won't hold water for WCW's booking decisions at this time, but Nitro was usually a pretty good show. You got a cruiserweight match during the first hour, a Benoit/Malenko/Raven/Booker T match during the second, and the main eventers would fight in the third hour. I loved the contrast of wrestling styles we got to see each week. And you got some good promo work from the NWO, Jericho, Flair, and Scott Steiner.

Wacky booking aside, I'd take a random Nitro from '97 over any Raw from 2014.

Oh, man...that first night Warrior actually showed up on Nitro. He talked. And talked...and talked...and talked. And Hogan could never ease into "Okay...let's just hear what the dude has to say" mode. He, of course, had to stand there mugging like he was mortally terrified for 20 minutes.

No Bray in your Wrestler of the Year list, andrewberg? I guess he could pull off the upset for #1, but it's hard to imagine the other guy being left off altogether.

Wacky booking aside, I'd take a random Nitro from '97 over any Raw from 2014.

Yeah, 97 was solid. I am focusing more on 98 onward as spurred by the Bret Hart conversation.

No Bray in your Wrestler of the Year list, andrewberg? I guess he could pull off the upset for #1, but it's hard to imagine the other guy being left off altogether.

I probably should have included him in the honorable mentions, but that was getting overly long as it was. My argument would be that he was not very active and the majority of most of what happened in most of his feuds was actually bad. The tail end of the Daniel Wyatt thing happened this year, so I will give him some credit there. I did not like the program with Cena except for the final match. I love Jericho, but I did not like their program over the summer. He disappeared for a couple of months after that, and the Ambrose program went backwards after an interesting start.

I think he is incredibly talented on the mic and in the ring, but my criticism is always that he talks in circles and makes me less interested in seeing a wrestling match. I still think he has the potential to be the very best of anyone in WWE though.

Wacky booking aside, I'd take a random Nitro from '97 over any Raw from 2014.

Yeah, 97 was solid. I am focusing more on 98 onward as spurred by the Bret Hart conversation.

Be as critical as you like, but it is simply a fact that no other promotion-- not 70s/80s NWA, not WWF, not Japan-- has ever delivered half as good a Judy Bagwell on a Pole match.

I'd rather see a Judy Bagwell on a Pole match than Judy Bagwell on a pole.

Was the Pole Scott Putski?

"No, that's not wrestling. That's Rocky IV."

I know. But Rocky IV was wrestling, except the punches were somehow more fake.

Hell with his career, the Bulldog injury probably prematurely ended his life. Not that Davey was ever the cleanest guy in the world, but it's not a stretch to think he had to amp up the painkiller addiction following that. Bulldog and Neidhart were never going to be main eventers, but I feel like they were wasted in WCW as well. (And I love thinking about Davey being the 4th guy in the NWO, as rumored which would be just such a tragic miscasting, it'd be hilarious)

I'd put Davey Boy Smith & Rick Martel in the category of guys who didn't look right in a WCW ring. Smith looked less awkward in his brief 1993 run vs. Vader though. Bret Hart never looked quite right in WCW either

I think there 3 or 4 others that tried to leave too, but Vince didn't want them.(Douglas for sure, blanking on others) They let Raven walk under similar circumstances a few months prior, only he had a noncompete so he said ok and went back to ECW for a year.

Shane Douglas and Billy Kidman as well. (I think Kidman, Douglas for sure).

I may be confused with Kidman, because I believe Bischoff did the same thing the year prior, when Raven left, and a lot of guys were gonna take him up on it, and then Bischoff backed down when they called his bluff and wouldn't let them leave. That might have been the time Kidman tried to leave.

Baseball-wise the closest thing to WCW having so much talent but letting it all go to crap would maybe be the Cubs having 4 HOFers in the late 60s/early 70s (Williams, Banks, Santo, Fergie-5 if u count Durocher) or the 86-88 O's having Ripken and Murray only WCW had strong underused midcarders too

Bret Hart never looked quite right in WCW either

Do you mean before or after Hart feuded with the replacement fat guy from "MAD TV"?

If I remember correctly it was Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Saturn and Douglas who walked out on Busch. Douglas knew he couldn't go back to WWF and I guess was bluffing. He had less than positive things to say about how Malenko and Saturn negotiated with the WWF behind his back. He understand Benoit had to do what he had to do cuz of Sullivan and said Benoit checked up on him regularly after the dust settled

Hart looked wrong in a WCW ring but the terrible way he was booked was unforgivable

Hart was a bit of a mess in WCW but at least we got to see him wrestle Benoit a few times. Their match on Nitro's Owen Hart tribute show is one of the best TV matches I've ever seen.

And of course this promo.

There could have been a really good actual Invaders/nWo-vs-WCW booking for several years, couldn't there?

[359]Complete with the woman who impersonated Oprah having her nipple pop out.

ETA: I think she might have turned heel in that match for no apparent reason.

So rock is in philly

Yeah, I'm hoping they don't decide to have him enter and win to set up Rock/Brock. I can understand the financial benefit to doing so.

What if Rock just shows up to get eliminated by Roman in the Rumble to give Roman a bit of a rub?

I think if Rock enters the Rumble, he's winning it or at least setting up an angle. A Rock-Roman feud could be cool. Rock isn't likely to bury his own cousin on the mic, and might be able to help him find a voice. Only issue is that they might need to turn Roman in order for it to work, since Rock probably wouldn't be getting a heel reaction.

Rock/Brock for the title poses a lot of issues if Brock doesn't stay in WWE. Rock/Brock not for the title is probably actually a good idea to help maximize Network subscriptions.

Rock winning would be absurdly hilarious. I saw that on a board earlier and though I like reading real time thoughts on PPVs, I think I'm checking out for the rest of the night. Rock's music hitting in the middle (well, towards the very end) with no fore-knowledge would have been awesome. Want to watch without coloured by internet thoughts.

I don't see how Brock can ever lose a kayfabe 1 on 1 match after that. Great match.

A little early for that particular elimination. Crowd's not handling it well already.

Poor Roman.

It's like they are making every booking choice to maximize the boos.

No Orton?

That was horrible.

Well, at least the triple threat match was fantastic. They should have put that on last. Or at least had some self-awareness of where this show was taking place.

Well, at least the triple threat match was fantastic. They should have put that on last. Or at least had some self-awareness of where this show was taking place.

It was funny that they thought bringing The Rock in would turn Reigns into a mega-face.

Reigns would've gotten this reaction everywhere, especially with the way Bryan was eliminated. Nobody's particularly clamoring for a Roman Reigns title reign at the moment.

Gotta make Roman look strong.

Next on the list is to do a #1 Contender's match with Bryan a la Punk-Cena 2013. And have Reigns win.

One of the worst Royal Rumble matches ever. The triple threat match was fantastic, of course.

Rollins is the best performer in the company. They just won't take no for an answer with Reigns, however.

He's never going to be The Rock, Austin or even Cena. Never. The best you can hope for is a Batista redux, which wouldn't be bad.

Only way to save WM after this is have Rollins cash in tomorrow on an injured and unprepared Brock, and cheat, to pick up the belt. Then find a way to get Ambrose in there. Ex-Shield triple threat for the title.

And I'm not big on Ryback, but Cena's storyline killed his momentum, and now Cena takes his current rival? Ok. And Ziggler getting eliminated like that was miserable as well. All the firing angle has done was kill the 3 mid careers who made the first half of any given Raw worth watching.

And they could have saved the rumble if they'd saved the worst elimination for later. Giving the crowd that much time to stew made everything worse.

Spite booking is a kind of booking...

#CancelWWENetwork is the number 1 trending topic in the US right now.

And they could have saved the rumble if they'd saved the worst elimination for later. Giving the crowd that much time to stew made everything worse.

I disagree with this. IMO, the backlash would've been just as bad if Bryan had been eliminated in the same way later in the match. The real problem was having the elimination basically be a non-event. That basically said to Bryan's fans "We've got no interesting plans for him, he's getting a 10 minute midcard match at Mania, he came back for nothing."

If he had to be in the match (and he didn't) and wasn't going to win, the only thing to do that might've placated the fans was Bryan losing due to a massive beatdown / interference by an exciting heel (IE: not Wyatt, Big Show, Kane) setting up a major match at Mania. Even that might not have worked, but at the very least it would've given his fans a storyline to be interested in.

And the way Big Show and Kane just "dominated" and started tossing over prime talent as if they're supposed to be squashed jobbers.

If he had to be in the match (and he didn't) and wasn't going to win, the only thing to do that might've placated the fans

Or Sting entering immediately and avenging Bryan. Not including him somehow is one of the many opportunities they missed with his.

And the way Big Show and Kane just "dominated" and started tossing over prime talent as if they're supposed to be squashed jobbers.

Big Show and Kane knocking guys out and dumping them like bags of garbage didn't make one viewer hot for their elimination. It just made everybody hate the booking.

Just rewatched the triple threat. That's a classic match. ###### up that its memory might be sullied by what came after but that is one of my favorite matches ever.

Sting supposedly only has like 6 dates in his contract. He's used 2, will use another at Mania, using one at the Rumble would only leave 2 appearances over the next 2 months to build a program with H(Or 1 if you want him there at WM fallout show)

I'm amazed at Cena's role in all this. As much as I hate what they're doing to Reigns, I give so much credit to Cena to being a complete sacrificial lamb for the company in their effort to make the next big star.

That was quite the lackluster Royal Rumble.

The three-way was great though. Only real saving grace of a generally boring as #### show.

[Governor of CT]Malloy was asked about the WWE Monday Night Raw at the XL Center in Hartford. The event is still scheduled to take place at 7:30 p.m.

"Unfortunately I don't follow wrestling as much as I should. We will try to figure out what we are they doing. People need to get home tonight. As important to the world of comedy wresting is, public safety is first," he said.

More dignified term: "comedy wrestling" vs "Sports entertainment".

I just posted my review of the show. Lots of good points posted here. I can't really argue with any of them.

http://www.rosterresource.com/wrestling012515royal-rumble-reivew/

@390 but it was Rollins who took the pin. I came in thinking this was a gimmick to protect Lesnar, and it wound up protecting Cena. When the match was over it was Rollins lying in the ring face down, and Rollins looking back at Lesnar from his knees. Further, Rollins has infinitely more to lose. He needs something soon to cement his status as top heel. They've got to find him a good match for WM or he falls away.

They actually had a great chance last night to make Reigns a super gigantic heel. During that final four segment with Big Show, Kane, Reigns, and Ambrose, Reigns eliminates Ambrose after they embrace. Big Show and Kane eliminate themselves. The Authority celebrates with Reigns as he's their new golden boy, considering Rollins' loss to Lesnar earlier in the evening.

As Andrew mentioned on his blog, Lesnar's going to get cheered at WM anyway and he even began to turn when he attacked Kane & Big Show last week. Throw Daniel Bryan in their and you've got an interesting triple threat for WM.

I'm also not big on the upcoming Cena-Rusev feud. I'd really like to see someone like Ziggler or Ryback or Ambrose end Rusev's streak. The Cena-Wyatt feud didn't help Bray much and I think that's where they're going with Rusev.

Oh, please. Cena was taken out by Rollins and it was Lesnar that had to save Cena from the pin. Rollins took him out so much that he couldn't even recover to make the save when Lesnar scored the pin a minute later.

[395] Rollins took a pin from Lesnar, but he also kicked out of at least 1 AA and avoided a bunch of others. Rollins is a made man IMO. From the perspective of Cena, your first victory over Lesnar (Extreme Rules '12) has effectively been scrubbed from the books, you got your ass handed to you at Summerslam in one of the most lopsided title bouts ever, you wrestled to a draw at Night of Champions...and then you got your ass handed to you in most 1 on 1 moments at the RR including announcer commentary highlighting the fact that you couldn't overcome Lesnar. Then on the post PPV interview you cut an interview where you essentially "give up" and say you gave it your best and you have no idea how anyone is going to beat Lesnar. Has ANY top guy ever been asked to do something like this?

@397 and 398, fair enough. I still think the sticking image is Rollins in the ring looking beat, but I haven't watched regularly for about 2 years up till SS, so I didn't realize the history.

Ultimately, even if they made Rollins look like #### last night, they really don't have another option as top full-time heel. You've basically got Rollins, Wyatt, and Nikolai Volkoff.