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Wednesday, April 13, 2022

Padres irked by Giants’ pile-on strategy

By the bottom of the second inning on Tuesday night, the Giants had already raced out to a nine-run lead over the Padres, ambushing starter Yu Darvish with six runs in the first and four more in the second. At that point, the game, for all intents and purposes, was over. The drama was only beginning.

Steven Duggar, whose single plated the final run of that second inning, promptly swiped second base with a nine-run lead. Then, in the bottom of the sixth, with the Giants still leading by nine, Mauricio Dubón dropped a bunt single up the third-base line.

The Padres dugout did not respond kindly to the situation. Manager Bob Melvin chirped from the top step. First baseman Eric Hosmer made his feelings known to Dubón.

“I definitely told him how I felt, how we felt about it,” said Hosmer, following the Giants’ 13-2 victory at Oracle Park. “He said it was a sign given to him by their staff. I just told him I think you’ve got to be a little bit smarter in that situation. You’ve been playing professional ball for a good amount of time obviously if you’re at this level. You’ve got to be smarter than that.”

The Giants felt otherwise. They felt that Dubón’s bunt and Duggar’s steal were well within the unwritten rules. Those were the smart plays, they said.

“I fully support both of those decisions,” Giants manager Gabe Kapler said. “Our goal is not exclusively to win one game in a series. It’s to try to win the entire series. Sometimes, that means trying to get a little deeper into the opposition’s ‘pen. I understand that many teams don’t love that strategy.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 13, 2022 at 08:08 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: giants, padres, unwritten rules

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: April 13, 2022 at 08:57 AM (#6071476)
Good on Kapler. As long as there is game to be played, players should be playing. If you don't like the score, play better.
   2. Jack Sommers Posted: April 13, 2022 at 09:05 AM (#6071477)
If the Padres agree to stop trying to score and go up and strike out intentionally the rest of the way, then sure......Giants can quit too.

So stupid
   3. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 13, 2022 at 09:10 AM (#6071478)
The Padres are babies. Play to win the ####### game.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: April 13, 2022 at 09:17 AM (#6071479)
As long as they limit themselves to chirping about it and not violently taking retribution by throwing a dangerous projectile at someone, I don't see it as a big deal.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: April 13, 2022 at 09:25 AM (#6071480)
I'm okay with this "chirping" if the chirpers also advocate for some sort of "mercy rule."

otherwise, not so much. either advocate to end games early, or shut your pie holes.

Hosmer, who is stealing $20M a year from the Padres, is a particularly... rich... advocate of this "do it the right way" theory, lol.
   6. SoSH U at work Posted: April 13, 2022 at 09:30 AM (#6071481)
I'm okay with this "chirping" if the chirpers also advocate for some sort of "mercy rule."


So you're saying baseball players shouldn't be hypocritical about these things. Good luck with that.

Because let's face it. If the Giants are in a lost-cost game with Arizona three months from now, and some nameless Diamondback lays down a bunt in the seventh inning, I'm not convinced the laboring Giants reliever or his teammates are going to just roll with it because that's the Giants way, regardless what Gabe Kapler had to say yesterday (even if Kapler himself is being honest here).
   7. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: April 13, 2022 at 09:57 AM (#6071485)
Was there a shift on on the bunt?
   8. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 13, 2022 at 10:13 AM (#6071486)
There may be more to this than just the unwritten rule stuff.
   9. Howie Menckel Posted: April 13, 2022 at 10:49 AM (#6071488)
per 8, announcer Bob Costas on TBS last night said that the coach was ejected for violating a ban on giving written notes to players while outside of the dugout. apparently he gave Brandon Crawford some info, and for whatever reason Crawford left the game at the same time withe Giants holding a 10-1 lead after two innings.

the coach clearly was confused about why he was ejected. not long after, the cameras showed a smirking crew chief at third base. not sure what to make of any of it at this point.
   10. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: April 13, 2022 at 11:01 AM (#6071490)
JFC that's not racist.
   11. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 13, 2022 at 11:28 AM (#6071491)
Was there a shift on on the bunt?

I wondered the same thing, but Dubón bats rightie.
   12. A triple short of the cycle Posted: April 13, 2022 at 11:50 AM (#6071494)
I'm disappointed in Melvin for engaging in such nonsense. The Giants can score 9 runs in 2 innings, but the Padres can't score 9 runs in 7 innings to catch up? The game is "over" in the 2nd inning? Please.
   13. TJ Posted: April 13, 2022 at 12:00 PM (#6071495)
I usually fall into the “unwritten rules” camp (yeah, I know that’s bad juju around here), but I have no problem with what the Giants did, especially after hearing Kaplan’s explanation. If MLB teams are going to limit their starting pitchers to two time through the order and then trot out a parade of flame throwing relievers to shut other teams down, then any strategy you can devise that weakens your opponents ability to do that is both sound and justified. It’s not like the Giants were stealing on and dropping bunts down on some bench position player sent to the mound to take the beat down. If the Giants had done that sort of thing against the Padres backup catcher who was stuck on the mound for the 9th inning, then that would be a violation of the “unwritten rules”. Doing it to weaken a bullpen you will be facing over the next few days is perfectly legit, and kudos to Kapler for coming up with the idea.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 13, 2022 at 12:24 PM (#6071501)
JFC that's not racist.

Concur.

'You need to control that MF---er,'
is what's alleged and that doesn't even have hints of shades of nuanced undertones of racism. Can't people just be upset for being called a MFer anymore?
   15. The Duke Posted: April 13, 2022 at 12:39 PM (#6071505)
Anyone who saw Shildt's epic post-game rant that was filmed by Arozarena (which likely got him traded ) knows that Shildt is like this all the time. I find it distasteful even in the context of a clubhouse situation. Leaders shouldn't default to this base language. I'm sure it's quite common though.
   16. Jay Seaver Posted: April 13, 2022 at 12:40 PM (#6071506)
10/14 - As a comfortable middle-class white guy, it doesn't necessarily read racist to me, but if that's how it's striking a young Black guy, there may be something to it. The folks saying it is tend to key on "control" rather than "MFer", and, yeah, I can sort of see how that sort of language may have baggage, especially if there's a pattern to who Shildt uses it with and who he doesn't.
   17. Hank Gillette Posted: April 13, 2022 at 12:50 PM (#6071508)
I usually fall into the “unwritten rules” camp (yeah, I know that’s bad juju around here), but I have no problem with what the Giants did, especially after hearing Kaplan’s explanation. If MLB teams are going to limit their starting pitchers to two time through the order and then trot out a parade of flame throwing relievers to shut other teams down, then any strategy you can devise that weakens your opponents ability to do that is both sound and justified.
I don’t have any problem with what the Giants did. If you are a professional, you never assume that the other team can’t make a comeback. Hosmer should shut up and work on not being so sucky.

I don’t know if I buy into the strategy though. If you think the game is out of reach, why would you “trot out a parade of flame throwing relievers”. You throw out a long relief pitcher that you keep around to throw garbage innings.
   18. catomi01 Posted: April 13, 2022 at 01:40 PM (#6071515)
I don’t know if I buy into the strategy though. If you think the game is out of reach, why would you “trot out a parade of flame throwing relievers”. You throw out a long relief pitcher that you keep around to throw garbage innings.


Even that has some merit though...at a minimum, that guy is probably not available for a day or two...meaning more work at some point in the next few days for someone else (whether it's another fungible guy or one of the higher leverage arms)...or the guy is sent down and the team burns an option it probably wasn't planning on using quite so soon...both relatively minor hits, but they do add up...in general the more pitches you make the rest of the league throw, the better off you are.
   19. TJ Posted: April 13, 2022 at 02:00 PM (#6071519)
I don’t know if I buy into the strategy though. If you think the game is out of reach, why would you “trot out a parade of flame throwing relievers”. You throw out a long relief pitcher that you keep around to throw garbage innings.


I would agree with you in most cases. But with the advent of "opener" and "follower", if you can burn a long man who may be one of those "followers", you make the other team adjust to you...
   20. Robbo Posted: April 13, 2022 at 02:08 PM (#6071521)
A Venn diagram of the people who complain about one team "embarrassing" another by not rolling over when up big and the people who complain about the "pussification of America" and "participation trophies" has gotta be a circle.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: April 13, 2022 at 02:27 PM (#6071524)
whether it's another fungible guy

I believe players can only be sent down 5 times all year starting on May 1 - one pitcher had at least nine roundtrips last year.

maybe Kapler is warming up on his midseason strategy.
   22. pikepredator Posted: April 13, 2022 at 02:53 PM (#6071526)
Shouldn't that read "Padres irked by inability to shut down Giants offense"?

10/14 - As a comfortable middle-class white guy, it doesn't necessarily read racist to me, but if that's how it's striking a young Black guy, there may be something to it.


Agreed. It's not my place to tell somebody else what they should or shouldn't feel, nor to judge from afar what occurred during an exchange for which I wasn't present and am only hearing 2nd/3rd-hand. I'm admittedly confused as to why he didn't address Richardson directly - sounds like he told the manager to control the coach, or something? That seems like a weird way to go about it.

People above claiming Shildt simply called Richardson a MFer are either misrepresenting what happened, or uninformed. If someone directly yelled at my fiancee "STFU a-hole", that would be rude (whether deserved or not is a separate point). Yelling at me to "make that a-hole shut up", OTOH, would be *clearly* misogynistic - it's not about the word, it's the expectation that I as the man should control her.
   23. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 13, 2022 at 03:08 PM (#6071531)
Agreed. It's not my place to tell somebody else what they should or shouldn't feel, nor to judge from afar what occurred during an exchange for which I wasn't present and am only hearing 2nd/3rd-hand.

If we're going to continue to judge racism as the worst possible sin, and don't judge racism accusations on a "reasonable person" standard we can't function as a society. Anyone can tar anyone else at any time.
   24. Perry Posted: April 13, 2022 at 03:22 PM (#6071538)
The Athletic just tweeted a video of Shildt and Richardson meeting and talking on the field this morning, ending with handshakes and hugs, so it looks like they've settled their issues.

https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1514285507446022151

   25. pikepredator Posted: April 13, 2022 at 05:22 PM (#6071579)
If we're going to continue to judge racism as the worst possible sin, and don't judge racism accusations on a "reasonable person" standard we can't function as a society.


Agreed, I guess? Except for the "we" part, since I don't support doing either of those things so . . . I'm not sure if you're just obliquely responding to something else via my post or putting words in my mouth. At any rate, I'm suggesting we listen more & hold off on passing judgment.

To that point, I am glad to see the two of them talked things through and smoothed it over. In today's society, truly listening to people with whom we may not see eye to eye has become a lost art.
   26. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 13, 2022 at 06:08 PM (#6071589)
Yelling at me to "make that a-hole shut up", OTOH, would be *clearly* misogynistic - it's not about the word, it's the expectation that I as the man should control her.

Your wife isn’t your employee, though. Kapler does supervise Richardson (as an employee, not a slave or a piece of property).

I think it’s the kind of thing that one could say without any racist undertones. I once told a client’s general counsel that he needed to get his CEO under control because the guy was treating my team unprofessionally. (Very different situation, I realize.)
   27. JRVJ Posted: April 13, 2022 at 06:54 PM (#6071595)
What I've never understood about these "unwritten rules" is why MLBPA doesn't push back against them, at least as it pertains to players' stats and how that impacts players' salaries.
   28. SoSH U at work Posted: April 13, 2022 at 08:03 PM (#6071607)

What I've never understood about these "unwritten rules" is why MLBPA doesn't push back against them, at least as it pertains to players' stats and how that impacts players' salaries.


A) Because MLBPA is made up of MLB players, and they're the ones who enforce these rules. Fans may ##### and moan about them, but most players are fine with them (if the vast majority of players opposed a specific unwritten rule, it would go away).

B) Because they don't really affect anyone's stats. You're basically not supposed to bunt for a base hit or steal a base when you're up big (both of which are strategic decisions). But you're not being asked to make outs on purpose.
   29. The Duke Posted: April 13, 2022 at 08:39 PM (#6071610)
Freddie Freeman got off easy - he's probably happy to the see unwritten rules baton passed to Shildt. The cardinals are big purveyors of the unwritten rules. I believe Matheny unleashed one of his relievers on another reliever to train him on all the unwritten rules. It's a crazy world down there in the dugout.

TLR was one big unwritten rule encylcopedia
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 13, 2022 at 08:46 PM (#6071611)
TLR was one big unwritten rule encylcopedia
But not so much on the written rules, like "you aren't supposed to pass out at the wheel of your car."
   31. Hank Gillette Posted: April 13, 2022 at 11:11 PM (#6071631)
But not so much on the written rules, like "you aren't supposed to pass out at the wheel of your car."
LOL. Literally.
   32. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: April 14, 2022 at 08:30 AM (#6071647)
I'd just like to point out that "irk" is one of my all-time favourite words. It's a shame you rarely see it outside of news headlines.
   33. Dillon Gee Escape Plan Posted: April 14, 2022 at 09:45 AM (#6071657)
Aren't the Padres the same team that had to apologize for hitting a grand slam in a blowout two years ago?
   34. GregD Posted: April 14, 2022 at 01:34 PM (#6071699)
Irk and ire have saved many a copyeditor in the print days…assume they’ll fade as online pub copyeditors don’t get trained on pica counts
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: April 16, 2022 at 12:00 PM (#6071995)
Whitey Herzog once said that if the other team promises to stop trying to hit homeruns, we'll stop stealing bases (Ironically, if I remember correctly, this was against a Giants team in the 80's)
   36. cardsfanboy Posted: April 16, 2022 at 12:06 PM (#6071998)
The cardinals are big purveyors of the unwritten rules.


Really? In 50 years of watching Cardinal baseball, I've never seen them care one bit about how to behave in a blowout. About the only unwritten rule I've ever seen them care about as a franchise is "just play the ####### game, and don't gloat" type of thing. You hit a homerun, run the ####### bases.

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