Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, November 18, 2019

PASSAN: Astros exec suggested using cameras to spy in ‘17, sources say

A familiar name in these circles emerges…

A high-ranking Houston Astros official asked scouts to spy on opponents’ dugouts leading up to the 2017 postseason, hoping to steal signs and suggesting the potential use of cameras to do so, sources familiar with the request told ESPN.

The reaction among those who received an email from Kevin Goldstein, a special assistant to Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow, was mixed, sources told ESPN. Some were intrigued by the idea, sources who received the email said, while others were bothered by the thought of pointing cameras from the stands toward opposing teams’ dugouts, a plan that could have earned them scorn within the scouting community if caught. ...

Goldstein, who did not return a message seeking comment, wrote in the email: “One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout. What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can [or can’t] do and report back your findings.”

Stormy JE Posted: November 18, 2019 at 11:04 AM | 183 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, baseball prospectus, cheating, kevin goldstein, sign stealing

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. Blastin Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:46 PM (#5902380)
i personally just can't pay attention to some droning voice.


I will have you know my podcasting voice is nasal and grating (high-pitched and fast!), not droning!

But I get it. I like podcasts because I can listen while I walk my dog or ride the subway. But I also love reading and watching videos. To each their own.
   102. Blastin Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5902381)
By the way, since you're here - this is my first year as a FG subscriber and I'm really enjoying these so far. Very ambitious project and I'm sure quite time-consuming, but well done and thank you.


Fully agreed!

Well I joined last year but still. This, Jay's HOF profiles, my favorite stuff.
   103. base ball chick Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:48 PM (#5902382)
DJS Thinks Apples and Oranges are Similar Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5902377)

... I'm a sarcastic, cantankerous loudmouth


- really?

heh

are you allowed to sell the exact same data to 2 parties? if you can't say, that's OK
   104. DJS Thinks Apples and Oranges are Similar Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5902383)
are you allowed to sell the exact same data to 2 parties? if you can't say, that's OK

I've come to the conclusion that ethically, it's *not* selling to two parties that's more troublesome! Imagine if X team and Y agent ask me for the same data. If I pick and choose to sell to one and not the other, I'm creating a situation in which I'm showing favoritism.
   105. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5902385)
are you allowed to sell the exact same data to 2 parties?

Hell, that's the whole basis of the consulting industry.
   106. DJS Thinks Apples and Oranges are Similar Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:13 PM (#5902391)
I'm told that one of our full-timers and one of our freelancers are already working on sign-stealing things.
   107. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:22 PM (#5902393)
I'll take this opportunity to praise the Elegy series and everything you do at FG, I'm a big fan.
   108. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5902394)
This, Jay's HOF profiles, my favorite stuff.
Yeah, the HOF profiles are very good too. And the prospect coverage was tremendously helpful this spring when I took over a team in a fantasy league with a minor-league draft. I've definitely gotten my money's worth in terms of content.
   109. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:30 PM (#5902395)
Not bbc, but why would I spend 60 minutes listening to something I could read in 15?
You can work your way up to 2x speed, and then you would only be wasting 15 minutes instead of 45.

Seriously though, once you start watching tv and/or movies and listening to talking like podcasts or whatever at faster speed, you can't go back. It's life changing.

I watch almost all my tv shows at a faster speed now. Depending on the quality of the show and density of the info, 1.25x to 2x. It's hard at first to catch everything at faster than 1.5x, but you get used to it. If you miss something you can always go back.

You wouldn't believe how much this makes slower shows/movies/talks more engaging. If I can't find a stream of something that allows me to speed it up, I just won't watch/listen anymore. It's too painful.

(Live events obviously excepted.)
   110. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:33 PM (#5902396)
You wouldn't believe how much this makes slower shows/movies/talks more engaging. If I can't find a stream of something that allows me to speed it up, I just won't watch/listen anymore. It's too painful.

(Live events obviously excepted.)
Is there a way to do this with my wife's stories?

I kid, I kid. Well, I don't - she's wonderful and I love her unconditionally, but her idea of telling a story is to deliver an unedited transcript of what every person involved said, line by line. It's brutal.
   111. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5902397)
You do, actually. Whether a person has a clean record or a long rap sheet has a lot to do with their eventual sentence in a criminal court, why shouldn't it in MLB?

I'm making a distinction between being an ####### and having a record. I'm certainly in favor of increased penalties for repeat offenses.

And not to distract from Dan talking about FG and his work, which I think is a more interesting conversation.
   112. winnipegwhip Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:40 PM (#5902398)
Is there a way to do this with my wife's stories?


LOL. When I was a teenager my mom was in the kitchen talking to my stepdad (who I seldom agreed with or had nothing in common). My mom started talking about something at work and my stepdad stated, "Do I care about anyone I don't know or will never meet? I never agreed with him any more than at that moment. I sat up in my room and thought this fight is going to be a classic.

My mom had this amazing sense of wanting to tell stories in the bottom of the ninth or the last few minutes of a game. I once said to her, "Would you like it if I came to talk to you during the last 10 minutes of Dallas?" That did not go over well.
   113. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 19, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5902402)
My mom started talking about something at work and my stepdad stated, "Do I care about anyone I don't know or will never meet?

When was the divorce?
   114. winnipegwhip Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:03 PM (#5902409)
When was the divorce?


Never happened...it went to court but mom got telling the judge about a friend of hers whose nephew once went to traffic court.....judge called for a recess and hasn't called court back in session.

It was the last time anyone was asked for "the full truth".
   115. Blastin Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:08 PM (#5902411)
I'm told that one of our full-timers and one of our freelancers are already working on sign-stealing things.


Exciting!
   116. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5902416)
Never happened...it went to court but mom got telling the judge about a friend of hers whose nephew once went to traffic court.....judge called for a recess and hasn't called court back in session.

It was the last time anyone was asked for "the full truth".
This was well played if it's not a variation on a standard joke.
   117. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5902418)

I watch almost all my tv shows at a faster speed now. Depending on the quality of the show and density of the info, 1.25x to 2x. It's hard at first to catch everything at faster than 1.5x, but you get used to it. If you miss something you can always go back.


I used to watch commentaries & deleted scenes in that mode, but my latest DVD player doesn't allow it ... or more precisely doesn't provide audio. I've tried a couple of times to use its predecessor, but remote problems get in the way. Or something.
   118. Blastin Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5902419)
I... couldn't possibly watch/listen to any of this stuff sped up. I do skim while reading if it's not really juicy.
   119. Blastin Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:24 PM (#5902420)
Passan tweeting from the owners meeting:

"Manfred on the gravity of the allegations against the Astros: “Any allegations that relate to a rule violation that could affect the outcome of a game or games is the most serious matter. ... We have ... what is going to be a really, really thorough investigation ongoing.""
   120. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5902423)
Passan tweeting from the owners meeting:

"Manfred on the gravity of the allegations against the Astros: “Any allegations that relate to a rule violation that could affect the outcome of a game or games is the most serious matter. ... We have ... what is going to be a really, really thorough investigation ongoing.""


Good. The potential of a "stolen" WS and AL Pennant is a big deal for MLB.
   121. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 19, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5902428)

I have pretty bad hearing so it's hard for me to listen to stuff sped up. And the app I use doesn't have an option between 1.0x and 1.5x speed. I need to switch to an app that gives smaller increments so maybe I can work my way up to faster speeds.

That being said, this is all "found time" for me. It's time I used to listen to nothing (i.e., while running), or time when I used to watch shows on Netflix (i.e., while doing chores), which was inefficient both for the watching and the chores.
   122. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:06 PM (#5902433)
I worked my way up from 1x on podcasts to 1.6x. Anything above that and I start missing bits.

But listening to everything on 1.5x means I spend 2/3 of the time listening to it. I listen to a lot more content this way.

I still have much better podcasts to listen to than fangraphs talking about the cheating Astros. Should I also listen to podcasts detailing how often Trump lies?
   123. RoyalFlush Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:11 PM (#5902437)
- and i wish there would be some podcast trascriptions. or something i could read because i can't stand podcasts


Some podcasts do this for their hearing impaired listeners. If you find one you like, you may want to click thru to their site and see if they offer it.
   124. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5902439)
Should I also listen to podcasts detailing how often Trump lies?
Do they even have any 24-hour live podcasts?
   125. Sunday silence Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5902440)
It just occurred to me that the Astros are the first team in MLB history to lose TWO world series's in one year.
   126. Sunday silence Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5902441)
Joe Jackson says "Hello, and we accomplished that 100 years ago."
   127. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:24 PM (#5902445)
Joe Jackson says "Hello, and we accomplished that 100 years ago."

How was that two?
   128. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:35 PM (#5902448)

How did the Astros lose 2?
   129. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5902450)
The 2010-2011 Rangers lost 2 World Series within one year's time.
   130. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5902451)
How did the Astros lose 2?
I assume the sentiment is that their '17 victory will be "lost" now.
   131. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5902454)
I assume the sentiment is that their '17 victory will be "lost" now.

Yes, if they're proven to have been stealing signs, the victory will definitely have a taint on it.
   132. Howie Menckel Posted: November 19, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5902460)

To paraphrase early Seinfeld, "I have a podcast."

me, too.

amusing, because I have never listened to one.
:)

I kept waiting for someone in authority to give me and/or my co-host some constructive criticism.

turns out that in the podcast universe, if the initial "winging it" product is deemed good, then any molding of it is seen as risking a loss of "authenticity."

so I keep winging it (not gonna plug it here, though).
   133. base ball chick Posted: November 19, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5902461)
i wouldn't say that stealing signs at the Box is what gave them an edge in either series. especially this last one, so i'd hardly call it tainted

if anything, THIS season, not postseason is most likely to be tainted - if they were still pulling that garbage - look at the home/away record
   134. Esoteric Posted: November 19, 2019 at 05:27 PM (#5902463)
As someone who runs a fairly popular music podcast, I am grateful for the fact that nobody can really listen to our show at 1.5x speed because then all the music clips end up sounding chipmunk-like.

That said, we do a lot of post-production work, and there have been at least a few times where we sped our entire recorded file up to 1.4x or thereabouts BEFORE dropping the music into the show. Generally we don't have to do it because both my co-host and I are fast-talkers.

EDIT: for those curious (and this is a show for serious music freaks): https://www.nationalreview.com/podcasts/political-beats/

The entire point of the show is to carve out an explicitly, unapologetically non-political space where people on the left and the right can just get together to talk about something far more rewarding than politics.
   135. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: November 19, 2019 at 06:01 PM (#5902467)
I listen to audiobooks at 1.5X but podcasts at normal speed. Part of the point of podcasts, for me, is to listen to an enjoyable conversation as opposed to just processing information. Speeding up a podcast would by definition affect its rhythm.
   136. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2019 at 06:15 PM (#5902470)
I am grateful for the fact that nobody can really listen to our show at 1.5x speed because then all the music clips end up sounding chipmunk-like.
No chipmunks anymore! They remove half (or other percentage) of the sound rather than speeding it up, so the wavelength doesn't change. You can do this on youtube for any song if you are curious.
   137. The Duke Posted: November 19, 2019 at 08:07 PM (#5902486)
Well Manfred has weighed in and for those hoping there are other teams at risk, he shot this down and the offered the following quote

“ Any allegations that relate to a rule violation that could affect the outcome of a game or games is the most serious matter,” Manfred said Tuesday. “It relates to the integrity of the sport.”

   138. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 19, 2019 at 09:17 PM (#5902498)
The entire point of the show is to carve out an explicitly, unapologetically non-political space where people on the left and the right can just get together to talk about something far more rewarding than politics.
I take it you do not have a comments section.
   139. The Duke Posted: November 19, 2019 at 09:23 PM (#5902499)
133. “If they are still pulling that garbage”

I see what you are doing there.
   140. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 05:46 AM (#5902528)
I take it you do not have a comments section.
LOL good God no. But we do have an iTunes page that's filled with a bunch of left-wing listeners saying "no really, this is a great show, no politics at all!"

As a matter of fact we're taping an episode today with a writer from Vox. (On Jimi Hendrix, can't believe it took over two years to get to him.)
   141. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:43 AM (#5902537)
The entire point of the show is to carve out an explicitly, unapologetically non-political space where people on the left and the right can just get together to talk about something far more rewarding than politics.


If that’s the case, why did you decide to put “Political” in the name of the show and affiliate it with a partisan political site?

Not trying to tell you how to do your job - just seems like neither of those things are all that conducive to accomplishing that particular goal.
   142. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2019 at 08:52 AM (#5902541)
#141 - I was trying to figure that out too. Its unique selling point is that it invites very political personalities and then bars them from discussing politics? Most music podcasts have nothing at all to do with politics. I feel like I'm missing something. Maybe it mostly appeals to people that spend the other 23 hours of their day obsessed over politics?

Or is it that music podcastery is so dominated by liberals - who invariably imbue their words with conscious or unconscious liberal bias - that conservatives enjoy a safe space where they can talk about the Old 97's and Jimi Hendrix?

With that said, I always enjoy Esoteric's comments here on music - he is very thoughtful and unbelievably enthusiastic - so I'm confident that it's a great listen.
   143. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:14 AM (#5902549)
Or is it that music podcastery is so dominated by liberals - who invariably imbue their words with conscious or unconscious liberal bias - that conservatives enjoy a safe space where they can talk about the Old 97's and Jimi Hendrix?


Could be? The only music reviewer whose politics I know anything about is Fantano, and he's super, super left. I think he mostly keeps it separate from his music stuff, though.
   144. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:19 AM (#5902553)
I love Fantano, but he's clear when a video is explicitly political and when it's just normal commentary. However surely it's a type of field that tends towards progressive views.
   145. JJ1986 Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5902555)
   146. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:41 AM (#5902558)
How Much Did the Astros Really Benefit from Sign-Stealing?

I think that totally misses the point. It doesn't matter how much the Astros benefited. The perception is the reality here.
   147. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5902563)
It's the article you must have expected from Fangraphs, though. That's what they do. Were you expecting a self-important editorial on sports ethics?
   148. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5902564)
Well, I think the writer is just getting at what might be quantifiable (probably not much), but none of it excuses the transgressions.


Now, that's one of their freelancers (as Dan said yesterday). If one of their main staffers writes a piece (as he said they will), I expect more broad scope stuff.
   149. Lassus Posted: November 20, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5902565)
Its unique selling point is that it invites very political personalities and then bars them from discussing politics?

I have theories, but it will devolve, so.
   150. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5902570)
Its unique selling point is that it invites very political personalities and then bars them from discussing politics?
The entire point was to have people (journalists, pols, commentators, etc.) who are defined in public by their work and/or their politics come into a politics-free zone and discuss music without any of that baggage. You'd be surprised how many people are eager to do that, to escape from all that crap and just have fun nerding out intensely over their favorite artists. Hence the name (which, incidentally, I didn't choose). We don't have guests who are just random music fans (which I actually sort of regret, as the world of journalism and politics isn't exactly choc-a-block full of Fairport Convention and Genesis fans...). The original idea for it arose after Trump's election, when I realized that I was just sick to death of talking politics all the time, and that the entire thing felt toxic to me, and I wanted an escape from it. Two and a half years down the road, we've put together a pretty formidable back catalogue.

Trust me, it's a damn good show. We did an entire two-part extravaganza on The Beach Boys with Matt Welch this summer!

EDIT: Our back catalogue is here. And yes, there *IS* a Pavement episode.
   151. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5902578)
Huh. Yeah, that does look like an interesting catalogue, and I'm going to start listening. It makes me happy that I have avoided political punditry well enough to have no idea who 90 percent of the guests are.

How have you not had a Springsteen episode??
   152. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5902582)
How have you not had a Springsteen episode??
Our show is guest-driven: we do what the guest wants, not what we want. Truth is, though, that we do often put our fingers on the scales and go with artists either my co-host or I are particularly interested in. And I'm just not that interested in doing a Springsteen episode right now. I'd also have to learn his post-THE RISING catalogue and my God, for someone who thinks Bruce peaked in 1973-1975, that's not a task I'm looking forward to.

Wherever Repoz is, I know he agrees with me about this.
   153. Kurt Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5902584)
I have listened to a few episodes of Esoteric's podcast. It's terrific, and "safe space for conservatives" really does not describe what it's about at all.
   154. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5902586)
And I'm just not that interested in doing a Springsteen episode right now. I'd also have to learn his post-THE RISING catalogue and my God, for someone who thinks Bruce peaked in 1973-1975, that's not a task I'm looking forward to.
Sir, I revoke my promise to listen to your podcast. You are dead to me.
   155. DL from MN Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:56 AM (#5902590)
Copied from a comments thread on TwinkieTown

I was looking at some Fangraphs plate discipline stuff the other day, and Marwin Gonzalez was interesting
Here’s his O-Swing % year by year:
2012: 32.1
2013: 37.1
2014: 35.1
2015: 36.4
2016: 35.7
2017: 29.2 (year the Astros allegedly starting stealing signs electronically)
2018: 31.9
2019: 35.9 (year he left Houston, reverted to career norms)
Makes me feel good that the Twins might not be cheaters, and that he signed with us under the assumption that he’d had a breakthrough, which now looks like it may have been assisted by illegal sign stealing. What does everyone else think about that, because I’m not sure.
Posted by CG19 on Nov 19, 2019 | 9:35 PM
   156. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 10:56 AM (#5902591)
Sir, I revoke my promise to listen to your podcast. You are dead to me.
If it's any consolation I have literally every single thing Springsteen has ever recorded (not just released -- RECORDED, bootlegs and all) up through 2002 or so. And literally every single circulating show he did between 1972-1976.
   157. Lassus Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5902594)
Esoteric, when are you doing a classical music episode?

(I mean, seriously, it might be kind of neat. [Of course, that's what all classical music people say while everyone else's eyes are glazing over, so.])

Edit: Elroy, did you ever listen to that 9th?
   158. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5902595)
I have listened to a few episodes of Esoteric's podcast. It's terrific, and "safe space for conservatives" really does not describe what it's about at all.
Yeah, I mean we had absolutely no problem at all covering, say, The Clash or Radiohead or Elvis Costello's greatest digs on Maggie Thatcher ("It's Time" is an amazing song!) and discussing their politics as it meant to them. It's just a "not passing judgment" sort of thing.
   159. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:06 AM (#5902598)
Esoteric, when are you doing a classical music episode?
I am deeply unequipped to discuss classical music. I mean, I love Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, but I utterly lack the technical expertise to handle it. I feel the same way about jazz (a genre I know quite a bit more about): I enjoy the jazz greats immensely (particularly Davis, who I'm more or less encyclopedic on), but I feel like I would embarrass myself discussing it. I'd be like "durrrr...I like this one! That one not so much!"
   160. Esoteric Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5902599)
Erm...sorry for hijacking this thread inadvertently.

Boy, those Astros sure are cheaters, aren't they?
   161. Lassus Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5902601)
I am deeply unequipped to discuss classical music. I mean, I love Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, but I utterly lack the technical expertise to handle it.

I grok this. It's a bit of the problem with the death of Classical music, however, the idea that expertise should be required. Many of mini-sode of some folks with what they like and why wouldn't be so bad. I'll cast my vote there for future reference.
   162. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5902602)
Since there was a lot of FG grousing upthread, here’s their Craig Edwards: What The Astros Might Deserve
   163. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5902603)
Fangraphs wrote the "what the Astros might deserve" piece, and it's... well it seems pretty direct and comprehensive.

We can disagree with it, but at least it exists. And the Astros are not going to get out of this easily.

Edit: coke to Der-K
   164. DJS Thinks Apples and Oranges are Similar Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:23 AM (#5902605)
I am deeply unequipped to discuss classical music. I mean, I love Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, but I utterly lack the technical expertise to handle it. I feel the same way about jazz (a genre I know quite a bit more about): I enjoy the jazz greats immensely (particularly Davis, who I'm more or less encyclopedic on), but I feel like I would embarrass myself discussing it. I'd be like "durrrr...I like this one! That one not so much!"

You know, if you want to do a classical music episode, you can drag me on.
   165. Lassus Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:24 AM (#5902606)
And the Astros are not going to get out of this easily.

I'm still wondering if the Mets will be within the blast radius, in regards to Beltran.
   166. The Duke Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:26 AM (#5902607)
Manfred quote from yesterday

Asked whether MLB was aware of the Astros’ tactics before last week, Manfred said “certainly not with the depth and detail.”

“We have over time monitored various rumors that you hear throughout the industry, made preliminary investigations, and tried to satisfy ourselves that we knew exactly what was going on,” Manfred said.


Sure would like to know what the bolder statement means
   167. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5902609)
I think it means, "you're embarrassing us now, especially after the Taubman stuff and how blatant this banging stuff is. To the shed with you."
   168. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5902610)
MLB clearly doesn't want this dragging on all offseason, but they also want to find it all out so how long do we think this drags?
   169. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5902612)
It means, we heard rumors but we didn't realize how brazen they were.
   170. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5902613)
Edit: Elroy, did you ever listen to that 9th?
I did, and I loved it. Thank you!
   171. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:46 AM (#5902615)
Hinch is going to get suspended.... but wouldn't they just fire him also? It would basically be a dishonorable discharge from the sport though not a ban
   172. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: November 20, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5902616)
Esoteric, when are you doing a classical music episode?


How easy is it to record a podcast in an elevator?
   173. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 20, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5902629)
Hinch is going to get suspended.... but wouldn't they just fire him also?


Firing him probably makes it more likely that he opens his mouth and spills whatever he knows to MLB, in the hope of a reduction of his suspension. If you keep him on staff, he probably still has to cooperate with the investigation to some extent, but he might not be quite as enthusiastic about spilling the beans.
   174. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5902637)
Good points.
   175. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:04 PM (#5902640)
I don't think that Hinch is a plausible scapegoat for this.
   176. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5902643)
I didn't mean he would be the only person suspended. But if his team was doing this stuff, there is no way he wasn't part of it.

I think Luhnow is done for. Crane may get 80s-Steinbrennered.
   177. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5902645)
I think we should think about the extent to which other teams are doing these things and how that might impact the Astros punishment. (My guess: many are, few are as brazen, they weren’t caught like this and they aren’t as disliked as Houston.)
If you’re Manfred constructing a penalty (and you are publicly like “we are only looking into Houston”), you don’t want a severe punishment that you then have to apply/modify up or down for the next team or teams in the news for this for past actions. Using a punishment to signal “cut this stuff out” is one thing but you don’t want to say “I guess we gotta apply these actions to five other clubs”.
   178. Lassus Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5902646)
Boy, some dumbass loudmouth assistant really put themselves out of a job at exactly the wrong time.
   179. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5902648)
Is any other team doing this absurd trash can whistling stuff? And EMAILING about it?

If it's hardcore punishment, they might just cut it out.

I wonder if this would change the game and cut down on homers.
   180. QLE Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5902652)
   181. Blastin Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5902656)
These men do not react well to being caught.
   182. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5902658)
179 - oh, they’ve definitely been real dumdums

And, to be clear, they’re probably the most hated team in MLB, right?
   183. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5902660)
They are now!
Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
greenback slays lewks
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (December 2019)
(81 - 3:32am, Dec 10)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogBaseball’s Most Handsome Managers
(16 - 3:01am, Dec 10)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogMLB: Is Mike Fiers a snitch? Depends on who you ask
(13 - 2:56am, Dec 10)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogChicago Cubs facing federal review over Wrigley Field access
(12 - 1:16am, Dec 10)
Last: bobm

NewsblogOT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2019 - January 2020)
(25 - 12:08am, Dec 10)
Last: calming him down with his 57i66135

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread, Start of the 2019-2020 Season
(1398 - 11:42pm, Dec 09)
Last: Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean

NewsblogNationals re-sign Stephen Strasburg to seven-year, $245 million deal
(40 - 11:16pm, Dec 09)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogLou Whitaker snubbed from the Hall of Fame again
(95 - 11:05pm, Dec 09)
Last: Eric J can SABER all he wants to

NewsblogTesting, no suspensions for opioids considered likely in MLB
(11 - 11:04pm, Dec 09)
Last: A triple short of the cycle

Hall of Merit2020 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(338 - 10:14pm, Dec 09)
Last: Dr. Chaleeko

NewsblogOT- Soccer Thread- October 2019
(844 - 10:03pm, Dec 09)
Last: I am going to be Frank

NewsblogBBO--Hall of Fame-Simmons
(2 - 9:58pm, Dec 09)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogCaptain Obvious
(77 - 9:53pm, Dec 09)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogDave Parker's larger-than-life legacy is one MLB fans should never forget
(30 - 9:39pm, Dec 09)
Last: Jay Z

NewsblogMiller, Simmons elected to HOF on Modern Era ballot
(63 - 7:57pm, Dec 09)
Last: caspian88

Page rendered in 0.5491 seconds
46 querie(s) executed