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Tuesday, July 30, 2013
The White Sox agreed to a trade Tuesday night that would send Jake Peavy to the Boston Red Sox.
The trade, which is pending the review of Peavy’s medical reports, is part of a three-way deal that includes the Detroit Tigers.
The White Sox are set to receive at least outfielder Avisail Garcia from Detroit in the trade. Boston infielder Jose Iglesias also is reportedly involved in the deal, though where he would land is still unclear.
Peavy was held out of Tuesday night’s start so the White Sox didn’t hurt his value prior to Wednesday’s 3 p.m. CT trade deadline.
Thanks to Butch.
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I think I'm happy with this deal for the Sox. Garcia's lower minors numbers are unimpressive but he's learned to hit since he entered AA or so. I know folks kept touting Peavy as the best available SP, but he's frequently injured, no longer the ace he once was (though a very solid SP), and is owed about $15m in 2014.
I know some Sox fans who were expecting a king's ransom for the likes of Peavy, Crain, Thornton, Konerko, Rios, etc. But honestly the only valuable members of the Sox are Sale & Quintana...
EDIT: Waiting to see who the lower-level guys are.
Of course. Both Sickels and Bless You Boys (Tigers blog) have him #2 in the Tigers' system. He's the Sox' favorite type of prospect -- a toolsy OFer. Were you expecting significantly more than the apparent package (B prospect + a few lesser prospects from Boston)?
Come on. The guy just turned 22 and has hit about .350* between AA & AAA.
*- Granted, he doesn't walk much and it's only about 90 games. Scouts/prospect writers seem to like him a bit. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt for now. It's not like the White Sox were going to get a Matt Davidson/Tyler Skaggs/Adam Eaton package for Peavy anyway.
As for the haul, Garcia would seem a likely replacement for Rios now or next spring. His offensive profile is utterly in keeping with what the Sox love. With luck he'll have better results than any Sox offensive prospect of the 21st century.
This will be an interesting deal to track. On one hand, Iglesias doesn't have to hit much at all to be a good SS... on the other hand, he may be up to that challenge. And it's just as easy to imagine Garcia being either great or useless.
Also, not to look down my nose at Peavy, who is a very fine pitcher, but another 2/3 guy isn't really worth it for the Red Sox. Lee is the only guy out there who could have added major value over what they have.
Dan, I don't love this trade either, but that's an overreaction.
Peavy isn't overpaid and he's been fairly durable since coming back from the lat tear. Pitchers get injured. On the face of it I think it's a pretty fair trade for all parties, nothing about this deal screams "robbery" to me, just 3 teams making a deal to try and help all parties.
He's young, so I guess there is some upside there, but set aside a couple fluky months and he's basically Cesar Izturis who strikes out a lot.
I think it probably also ought to be noted that the Pale Hose defense has been utterly dreadful all year.
In short - I was actually a bit surprised to see that Peavy isn't really the shell of his former self I figured he was... He's certainly not what he once was - and health has become an issue... but being an NLer, I guess I figured he'd pretty much become a back rotation innings muncher -- I think he's a fair bit better than that, a legit #2/#3. I'm not sure he's all that less valuable than Garza, if at all.
If the price is just Iglesias - and primo defender or not, don't the Bosox actually have a couple more SSs similar to him at lower levels, even setting aside Boegarts? I.e., Vinicio and isn't Derek Gibson still around?
This seems like a clear win for the Red Sox to me and the prospect the White Sox got back likewise looks solid. I think the Tigers end up the losers in this one, though I understand why they did what they did.
Is it back to Middlebrooks at 3B for the Red Sox? That doesn't seem like a good idea. Or did I miss a trade?
Doesn't bode well for Peralta.
Yes, you missed that tomorrow the Red Sox are trading Jackie Bradley Jr for David Wright.
I'm in the same camp as the other Sawx posters here, this trade stinks. I was envisioning a infield for years to come with Iglesias and Bogaerts both putting together HOF careers...alas it is not to be.
I'd guess they send him to AAA for everyday ABs until September if Peralta somehow evades suspension, but that seems unlikely anyway.
- Rondon seems like a stereotypical no-hit/good glove IF. Why was he moved from SS this year?
- Montas is a very hard thrower. Fair enough, White Sox can usually do something with that.
- Wendelken is your standard RP. OK.
I'm not sure I understand the Iglesias love. His glove must be absolutely fantastic because his minor league numbers are not so impressive. Do folks think his MLB numbers are closer to his talent level than his no-walk/no-power numbers in the minors? Or is his glove just that good that his offense doesn't really matter?
No, his glove is not that good.
It's better.
Overall there probably aren't 30 people in the world right now who can play shortstop every day and provide more overall value than Jose Iglesias, so the Red Sox have probably traded away a starting-caliber player. He's going to have to at least hit .230, though.
Iglesias is basically the same player as Andrelton Simmons. Would you trade Simmons plus 3 A ballers for the privilege of 1 1/3 years of Jake Peavy at nearly retail salary?
(I'm not saying Iglesias projects to put up the same kind of defensive season as Simmons is in 2013, but neither is Simmons a good bet to replicate this absurd season. Iglesias is in his class as a defender at SS though.)
entirely the latter. He is probably going to perennially win the AL GG. Nobody thinks he is going to hit, but he made some interesting strides this year, even aside from the crazy BABIP.
edit- cokes
It's crazy, scary good with the glove. I've seen him make plays I've not seen anyone make for a long time. I don't want to say since Ozzie, because I'm sure there's been as-good glove guys since then, but he's got that ability. The real question is can he hit enough to make the glove stick? The school of thought seems to be even with .240 BA & .300 OBP that might be enough given the glove.
At worst, he's probably Adam Everett. If he can figure out how to hit consistently at the ML level, he's much more than that.
Probably not likely but an option would be Iglesias or Peralta to 3B, Miggy to 1B, Fielder to DH, VMart to the bench. My guess is that's their optimal lineup with this group of players anyway.
You may have guessed from the many previous posts, yeah the glove is that good. If you already have enough offense, then this guy is your own personal Mark Belanger.
I don't think one needs research to say with 97% certainty this makes him more valuable to the Tigers than, say, any team with a mobile, average 3B.
And of course Miggy produces enough batting WAR to suffice for nearly both positions anyway. This is a very good move by Detroit if Iglesias can consistently hit the ball out of the infield.
Maybe, but V-Mart hit .385/.427/.583 in July, and is starting to look like the very good hitter he was before the injury.
If he's putting up an .850 OPS he's probably part of the optimal lineup, though swapping him and Fielder at 1B/DH might be a small defensive improvement. Maybe Peralta could move to 2B? Anyway, seems like a good problem to have.
1. Yes, of course.
2. Iglesias is nowhere near as good a player as Simmons.
This freakout is ridiculous. If Jose Iglesias is a regular in MLB for more than a year or two, I'll #### thumbtacks.
All I'm saying is, the trade of Iglesias to Detroit gives the Rays a real LCS rival. And the only way to offset that is for everyone to get behind Chris Archer. And by getting behind, I mean, everyone needs to come to my place and watch episodes of Archer.
And by everyone, I mean, just the hot girls. You fellas can stay home.
Idiot trade by Cherington. FFS, I'm a huge O's fan, but I only grudgingly acknowledged JJ Hardy as an AS on the Terry Kennedy, '87 rule.
Is it "The only reason he's an All-Star is because we stuffed the ballot boxes for him?"
If that's it, it's not a horrible rule. But that was Kennedy's fourth All-Star game. He had a 14 year catching career despite playing mostly in the 1980s and not having a very good reputation for throwing out base runners. He was College Baseball player of the year in 1976. And while Hardy may not be ARod at SS, he's defensively pretty steady and has some pop for the position. If Jeter had returned healthy or Jose Reyes didn't get injured, he wouldn't win the vote. But it's not impossible to suggest that he might have been selected this year even if he didn't win, considering the competition and how Baltimore is playing. And who should have been voted in, Elvis Andrus? Jhonny Peralta? I guess maybe Jed Lowrie, but it's hard to predict an Oakland player getting voted in right now.
I won't go that far, I think Iglesias could have a decent career, but we're talking about a guy coming off a .457 OPS (yes, OPS) in the last month, and who was always projected to be all field and no hit. Moreover, while he's a plus defender at short, he's not Andrelton Simmons with the glove, much less Adam Everett. And finally, blocking Bogaerts IS kind of a big deal. His defense is also very good, and moving him off SS would significantly decrease his value to the team.
It's possible that Iglesias turns out to be Ozzie Smith, but for one he'd need to turn into a vastly better hitter and for two he'd have to also turn out to be the best defensive shortstop ever. This is as clear an overvaluation of a prospect as I've ever seen on this website.
Can he field? Hells, yeah. He is one of the few players that you would pay to watch him play defense. He is a joy to watch, defensively.
Unfortunately for Iglesias, the rules also require that he pick up a bat...and there is scant evidence, except for the luckiest 34-game stretch ever from the start of the season until June 25th, that he can hit at all. In those first 126 PAs, he hit .434/.484/.575, with a BABIP of .490. Every bleeding grounder. Every bloop to the outfield. It was a running joke in Red Sox Nation that Iglesias had found the way to hit swinging bunts for base hits on purpose.
In fact, I was worried that he had come down to Earth since late June in a way that would reveal to anybody fooled by his slash line that he was what he always has been - a wonderful defensive SS incapable of hitting enough to play everyday baseball.
Since June 25th: 105 PAs, .212/.248/.222. He has one extra-base hit (a ground rule double that bounced into the stands at the Pesky Pole), two walks, and 15 Ks. His BABIP is .247.
This isn't some cherry picking of his stats this year, either. In 2013, in AAA, Iglesias has .202 in 133 PAs. In 2011 in AAA, he went .235/.285/.269. In 2012 in AAA, he went .266/.318/.306, and that was his career year. He has zero extra-base power, he has poor strike zone command, and he doesn't hit for average. He's fast, but has shown no inclination to use that speed as a base stealing threat (3 SBs this year). Of course, you can't steal first base, so this is the least of his problems.
Then, the Red Sox have a pair of prospects on the left side of the infield who are barreling up to Boston - Xander Bogaerts, and Garin Cecchini. Both have been outstanding this year, and are moving rapidly in the system. You can say that having Bogaerts doesn't mean you give away Iglesias, but:
a) they didn't give away Iglesias - they got a quality starting pitcher that they can afford to pay, and who is under contract through next year, and
b) Iglesias is using a 40-man spot, which is suddenly quite valuable to the Red Sox, and
c) Bogaerts would absolutely add more value to the Red Sox over the next 55 games than Iglesias, because he'll actually get on base more than twice a week.
If you look at the Red Sox over the last three weeks or so, their biggest problem has been that they are simply giving away whole innings offensively, and struggling to score runs despite some good pitching. Iglesias was like having the pitcher hit, and they have internal solutions that are much better. If Jose Iglesias is your third baseman (which he has been about 30 games this year) , you aren't a playoff team.
I like Peavy, but the obvious concern is his health. This is gonna make for a tense end of summer.
Absolutely. He has 1-HR power!
He's a line drive hitter, and the wall at Fenway takes away HR's. And he'll get his share of doubles. He's not Mark Belanger at the plate. I think he'll turn out to be a decent bat.
You're right. He's nowhere near that good.
At the very least, it'll be fun watching the Tigers run out a top defender at SS for the first time since... John McDonald I guess, Tram before that. (Adam Everett had lost a step by his Tigers career). Rick Porcello has got to be stoked.
Wanted to second this. Comparing Iglesias to Simmonds is absurd.
Simmonds never had a wRC+ below 111 in the minors. His 82 this year is carrying a 247 BABIP despite a 19% LD rate. Iglesias has posted 82, 52, 75 and 57 in his 4 most recent mLB stops. And UZR, TZ, and DRS all like Simmonds D better.
Absolutely. And I'll be laughing all the way to a BB-Ref sponsorship without ever sweating it.
hardy has a different set of tools to generate results in that he is not fast and relies on great hands, intelligence and a strong arm to make plays. but make plays he does. a lot of them
Alright, Mr. Voxter, what shall we do? HRs? Belanger had 20 for his career. Adjusted for era, what would Iglesias need to match that? 20% more? 33%?
I have only seen Iglesias a handful of times so agree he is very, very good. he didn't strike me as ozzie and when I first saw ozzie I was dumbstruck. but he is very, very good.
good to see the return to prominence of the good field, no hit shortstop. takes me back
BUT!
If he'd been traded to the Yankees, then Iglesias would be favorably compared to Smith, Maranville, Belanger and Marion.
Has there been any articles written about HOW Jose Iglesias has become an OK hitter? Even in AA and AAA, he was always the worst hitter in the lineup. Last year they called him up and he played a few weeks and his OPS was .391, and that was not a surprise. True, his BAbip was .137, but that was higher than his batting average. Now his BAbip is incredibly high, but that's not the only contributor to his good stats. What's going on here?
What I've seen from Iglesias is a guy who will hit enough to carry the glove. In return the Sox get a pitcher that I have very little confidence is going to make a meaningful impact. Ten starts is not a lot of time to make a huge difference.
There is also an emotional impact to this. Iglesias is just as much fun to watch play as any player the Sox have. He is unbelievable defensively and I feel cheated out of the chance to watch him play shortstop on a daily basis.
Has there been any articles written about HOW Jose Iglesias has become an OK hitter?
Uh, duh.
if the brewers had not picked up don Sutton for September 1982 Milwaukee doesn't win the division. Sutton was the only brewer starter worth a d8mn that month.
just saying
edit: well him and mike caldwell
Maybe he's seeing the ball better in MLB parks vs the minor league parks.
Pedroia hit well in the minors, so maybe it isn't a good comp, but he sucked when the called him up in September of '06. I thought he was overmatched. I'm not suggesting that Iglesias is anywhere near as good a hitter as Pedroia, but I will suggest that he may be benefiting from playing in better conditions. And that maybe as he matures he's becoming a better hitter. Would it be the first time that a player made a great leap in ability?
That play where he tried to stretch the hit off the wall was pretty funny. I was watching with the sound off (wife was sleeping), and it looked like a Keystone Cops routine.
For those who missed it, the throw beat him by a lot, but the fielder had to stretch for it and was lying prone, and Iglesias tried to slide around him, but slid past the bag, missing it, so he headed back to first and was put out after a rundown where he tried to avoid the tag, again, by spinning out of the way.
His BABIP is .376
His minor league numbers are absolutely DREADFUL, at every level.
He's crashed HARD at the major league level with the stick after a start far out of line with every other number he's put up in his career.
He's an exceptional defensive SS, that is not to be denied. I was and remain extremely skeptical that he'll ever hit worth a damn.
And for those higher on Iglesias than I am, it's probably worth noting that Peavy is signed through 2014, so he won't be a rental.
There's no point in bringing up Pedroia. Pedroia DESTROYED the ball in the minor leagues. Iglesias' OPS overall in the minors was 622
No comparison at all. There's a difference between seeing a guy slump when initially reaching the majors (Pedroia) and seeing a guy who's never done anything in the minors have a clearly unsustainable hot streak at the beginning of his major league career (Iglesias). I have every expectation that his recent slump is in fact pretty close to his expected major league offensive form going forward. He has a looooooong history of being a terrible hitter at every level.
Still, it's the same value, and even from a "fun" perspective, it gets old once you realize the guy is hurting you overall and that ain't gonna change. I had to deal with Rey Ordonez, I heard this whole story.
Email heading your way.
Sample sizes. His career MLB line in about 300 PA is .280/.333/.356 with a .328 BABIP all good for 1.8 WAR. That's a pretty hideous SLG but I think is a generally sustainable performance. I'd guess over time the average dips and the ISO goes up. As Dan said I think he's just developing.
The Tigers are a good fit for him. Their lineup can cover for his bat and Peralta's about to get a 50 game vacation, so he'll play and feel like part of the team, which was apparently an issue for him when he got sent down earlier this year, normal for a young player.
I certainly don't wish him any ill will. He's going to a good club that can use him right about now.
Yup. Even without the suspension, the Tigers were unlikely to re-sign Peralta after this year, and they've had absolutely nothing in the system at SS for years. Iglesias gives them a decent option with upside for this year and next year. Garcia is obviously the better hitting prospect, but the Tigers have one young fixture in the outfield already, and are hoping that Castellanos becomes another fixture sooner rather than later.
Defensively, the Tigers now have a stark contract between the middle of the field and the corners. Avila and Infante are plus defenders, and Iglesias and Jackson are Gold Glove types. Meanwhile, the corners are manned by Cabrera, Fielder, Dirks/Tuiassasopo, and the defensive corpse of Torii Hunter.
Peavy is owed $14.5 mil next year, and has a $15 mil player option for 2015 based on playing time, which may not be achievable, but he has an outside shot. I'm not sure he would get much better than that if he were a free agent after this season. IOW, him being signed for next year isn't all that.
Peavy- IF he stays healthy, he's a very good SP. Even if he doesn't, he should be healthy often enough to help Boston this year and at least parts of next...
Garcia- IF he can smooth out his tools, he's a quality starting outfielder. Even if he can't, he should be a good #4 OF at least...
Iglesias- IF he can get his OBP just a little north of .300, he's one of the better SS in the league. Even if he can't, his glove will always play well enough to help a team that can score like Detroit.
As far as it goes for my beloved Detroit Tigers, I like the trade. Peralta is looking at a 50 game suspension and is a free agent at the end of the year. Detroit can't afford to keep him, since Scherzer, Fister, and Jackson are all due big bumps in salary (not to mention Miggy's contract is coming up soon). Iglesias gives Detroit a cost-controlled SS for a few years (granted, not a real cheaply controlled one) that will save a few million to put toward the other guys. His defense is truly needed for the step-and-a-dive-or-less infield of Detroit, and there is no SS prospect in the upper minors. Here's hoping Garcia thrives in Chicago- he played hard and had some big moments for the club last year...
Over the past season and a half, Peavy has 300IP of 3.67 ERA, 119 ERA+, in front of a questionable defense. 6.3 WAR. Somebody is taking a shot at that if he's a FA.
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