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Wednesday, January 15, 2020

Pete Rose feels Astros’ cheating worse than his bets, questions players getting off ‘scot-free’

Pete Rose still has that same perky passion in his voice even though he’ll turn 79 in April, especially when he’s talking about his favorite subject while signing autographs “five hours a day, 20 days a month” near his Las Vegas home.

More than 30 years after being served a lifetime ban from baseball for betting on his team, Rose loves bragging about winning two World Series in the 1970s with the Big Red Machine and another with the 1980 Phillies after “Mike Schmidt went from being the best player four days a week to seven with me in Philly.” Baseball’s all-time hits leader also will detail why he believes Dave Parker and Steve Garvey belong in the Hall of Fame, and how he’s still hoping to get in before he’s “10 feet under.”

“All I do is talk positive about the game of baseball to customer after customer after customer,” Rose told NJ Advance Media on Monday during a lengthy phone interview. “I don’t badmouth the game, so now I’m going to have to try to defend the Houston Astros for the next two months on what they did.“

Rose was kidding.

Mind you, his commentary here would be a lot more meaningful if we had any confidence in his integrity…..

 

QLE Posted: January 15, 2020 at 12:34 AM | 46 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dirty rotten cheaters, pete rose

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   1. JJ1986 Posted: January 15, 2020 at 02:16 PM (#5916104)
Does Pete Rose call up the paper to talk about the Astros or does the newspaper track down Pete Rose to talk about the Astros? And which of those is worse.
   2. Blastin Posted: January 15, 2020 at 02:37 PM (#5916139)
Of course he feels that way.
   3. eric Posted: January 15, 2020 at 04:37 PM (#5916223)
“Mike Schmidt went from being the best player four days a week to seven with me in Philly.”


I'm still trying to figure out this quote.
   4. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 15, 2020 at 04:40 PM (#5916225)
I'm still trying to figure out this quote.


It's easy when you remember who said it....
   5. JRVJ Posted: January 15, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5916227)
I'm shocked, just shocked that Pete Rose thinks that his actions were not that grave.
   6. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 15, 2020 at 04:49 PM (#5916228)
“The Astros’ cheating was worse than my bets, but not as bad as my statutory rape. Yeah, I’d say it is somewhere on the continuum between getting on baseball and statutory rape. Somewhere in the midrange there.”
   7. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 15, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5916232)
I continue to wish Pete good health and a long life....

His occasional 2 cents of silliness can be amusing. I dread him leaving the earth and getting what I assume is going to be a good week or so of wall-to-wall "complicated legacy" hagiographies. I always make a point of keeping a week's worth of vacation time handy so I can take that long-awaited trip to some place without media, internet, etc.
   8. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 15, 2020 at 05:16 PM (#5916236)
Pete Rose feels Astros’ cheating worse than his bets …
And Hitler went to his grave thinking Stalin was a worse mass-murderer.
   9. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 15, 2020 at 05:24 PM (#5916238)
I dread him leaving the earth and getting what I assume is going to be a good week or so of wall-to-wall "complicated legacy" hagiographies.


"He was good at baseball, but was a piece of ####\" isn't all that complicated.
   10. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 15, 2020 at 06:42 PM (#5916260)
I'm already seeing the silly arguments online that if MLB doesn't punish the players for this scandal, that means Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson should be allowed in the hall of fame.

No, I'm not sure of the logic behind it.
   11. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 15, 2020 at 07:16 PM (#5916273)
Jose Canseco's most recent tweet:

Come see me today and get a car wash. 12 PM at Tropicana and Jones.


From January 8.
   12. Hank Gillette Posted: January 15, 2020 at 08:23 PM (#5916297)
Poor, stupid, Pete Rose, who doesn’t understand that players or organizations cheating to win games does not damage the integrity of the game nearly as much as actions which leave you unsure that both sides are trying to win the game.
   13. depletion Posted: January 15, 2020 at 11:55 PM (#5916350)
Technically, neither Hitler nor Stalin went to graves. I'm under the impression that Hitler's remains were lost when the building he killed himself in was bombed. Stalin was embalmed and on display above ground in Moscow, and may still be so in Georgia.
   14. depletion Posted: January 15, 2020 at 11:56 PM (#5916351)
And now the thread in ruined.
   15. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:18 AM (#5916355)
Hitler definitely didn’t. Hitler’s corpse (and Eva Braun’s) was thoroughly burned - more so than the Goebbles who were identifiable.

The Reich Chancellery and his bunker weren’t actually captured by the Russians until a day or two after his death. General Wilhelm Keitel surrendered and made the first announcement anyone outside the bunker knew of his death, and General Hans Krebs surrendered Berlin in person to the Red Army at roughly the same time Keitel was doing the public side stuff... it wasn’t until about a week later that - together with the surrender/capture of people in the bunker and the complete securing of Berlin (and the bunker in particular) that the Soviets were fairly sure they had the right remains. This was later revealed from dental records, I think a much later DNA test confirmed they probably had Eva Braun, etc.... though - Stalin tried very much to keep claiming Hitler had escaped (and there’s some evidence as he paranoided himself into believing it).... I think the Soviets actually DID lose or misplace a part of the skull or something they kept, but most of the ashen remains were just scattered.

Stalin, OTOH, is - I’m pretty sure - still buried in what amounts to Red Square’s monument park behind the Necropolis Wall.....
   16. bbmck Posted: January 16, 2020 at 04:41 AM (#5916360)
Link

Schmidt’s best years came alongside Rose, who could make the brooder laugh and whose lust for notice relieved Schmidt of attention he never wanted. In Rose’s years with the Phillies, 1979 through 1983, Schmidt reached career highs: .316, 48 home runs, 121 RBI, runs batted, .644 slugging average.
In those seasons, the Phillies won two National League championships and a World Series. “Rose made the difference,” Schmidt said last week when he was elected to the Hall of Fame (the heartfelt start of a campaign to persuade baseball to pardon Rose, who as a young player in Cincinnati had been a hero to a teen-ager up the road in Dayton named Michael Jack Schmidt).
Rose on Schmidt: “Mike was the best player in the league three or four days a week when I got there. By the time I left, he had learned to be the best seven days a week.”
   17. TomH Posted: January 16, 2020 at 07:35 AM (#5916361)
Mike Schmidt WAR

before Pete Rose
9.7 7.7 8.0 8.9 6.2

while teammate of Pete Rose
7.9 8.9 7.7 7.4 6.9

Yes, we should adjust the 7.7 in 81 for the strike

rank by NL player position WAR
pre-Rose 1-2-2-1-2
with Rose 2-1-1-3-4

Someone please explain to me how Schmitty improved in this period? His bat was a bit better, his defense not as superlative.
   18. Omineca Greg Posted: January 16, 2020 at 07:36 AM (#5916362)
The Grave and the Rose

La tombe dit à la rose :
- Des pleurs dont l'aube t'arrose
Que fais-tu, fleur des amours ?
La rose dit à la tombe :
- Que fais-tu de ce qui tombe
Dans ton gouffre ouvert toujours ?

La rose dit : - Tombeau sombre,
De ces pleurs je fais dans l'ombre
Un parfum d'ambre et de miel.
La tombe dit : - Fleur plaintive,
De chaque âme qui m'arrive
Je fais un ange du ciel !



The Grave and the Rose

The Grave said to the Rose,
'What of the dews of dawn,
Love's flower, what end is theirs?'
'And what of spirits flown,
The souls whereon doth close
The tomb's mouth unawares?'
The Rose said to the Grave.

The Rose said, 'In the shade
From the dawn's tears is made
A perfume faint and strange,
Amber and honey sweet.'
'And all the spirits fleet
Do suffer a sky-change,
More strangely than the dew,
To God's own angels new,'
The Grave said to the Rose.

Victor Hugo

   19. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 16, 2020 at 08:11 AM (#5916365)
Pretty sure Stalin was ultimately buried in a grave. You can find photos of it online, I am posting from my phone so hard to post a link.
   20. eric Posted: January 16, 2020 at 09:39 AM (#5916399)
Schmidt’s best years came alongside Rose, who could make the brooder laugh and whose lust for notice relieved Schmidt of attention he never wanted. In Rose’s years with the Phillies, 1979 through 1983, Schmidt reached career highs: .316, 48 home runs, 121 RBI, runs batted, .644 slugging average.
In those seasons, the Phillies won two National League championships and a World Series. “Rose made the difference,” Schmidt said last week when he was elected to the Hall of Fame (the heartfelt start of a campaign to persuade baseball to pardon Rose, who as a young player in Cincinnati had been a hero to a teen-ager up the road in Dayton named Michael Jack Schmidt).
Rose on Schmidt: “Mike was the best player in the league three or four days a week when I got there. By the time I left, he had learned to be the best seven days a week.”


He did have all his league-leading OPS+ years after Rose arrived, and all of his top-3 HR seasons. (And, meanwhile, Carlton set a career high in K/9 each season for four straight from ages 35-38.) All that, in retrospect, reads like "I, Pete Rose, showed up and taught the Phillies how to use PEDs."
   21. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 16, 2020 at 11:17 AM (#5916473)
I don’t see Rose taking credit for the 28yo Greg Luzinski falling off a cliff. 4 years prior averaging 5 oWAR; averaged 1.3 oWAR for the two years with Rose.

Then the Bull goes 2.8, 2.5 and 2.2 after getting away from Rose.
   22. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 12:16 PM (#5916496)
Pretty sure Stalin was ultimately buried in a grave. You can find photos of it online, I am posting from my phone so hard to post a link.


Yes - but I think it's the monument park by the Necropolis... I.e., he wasn't interred in the wall, he and a few others have graves/tombs in a park behind it.
   23. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2020 at 12:25 PM (#5916501)
And Hitler went to his grave thinking Stalin was a worse mass-murderer.

Classic peak vs. career argument.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 16, 2020 at 12:40 PM (#5916505)
Classic peak vs. career argument.
Well played, sir.
   25. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM (#5916507)

Yes - but I think it's the monument park by the Necropolis... I.e., he wasn't interred in the wall, he and a few others have graves/tombs in a park behind it.

Yep, I was agreeing with what you wrote.
   26. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 12:55 PM (#5916511)
Classic peak vs. career argument.


Hmmmm.... is it? Stalin had multiple peaks. The Holodomor alone - never mind the various purges - low estimates are 7 million (others put it higher - 10, even 12 million).
   27. . Posted: January 16, 2020 at 12:58 PM (#5916512)
Pol Pot's got a grave. (And quite a peak.)
   28. Itchy Row Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:11 PM (#5916516)
This thread was good in the beginning but it went too far.
   29. Rally Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:11 PM (#5916517)
Someone please explain to me how Schmitty improved in this period? His bat was a bit better, his defense not as superlative.


Schmidt hit exactly 38 homers per year from 1975-77. But in 1978 fell off to only 21 homers and 78 RBI. His SLG was only .435 that year, and the 78 RBI came after being a consistent 100+ RBI man. Obviously he stopped caring about hitting the longball and was headed for an early decline when Pete Rose came aboard, got on base (an excellent .418 his first year with the Phillies) and made Schmidt care about driving runners home again.

Due solely to Pete's presence, Schmidt hit a career best (to that point) 45 in 1979, topped that with 48 in 1980 as he won the MVP and his team the world series, and had even better rate stats in 1981 though the strike shortened the season.

It's quite obvious that having Pete around made everyone else care more about the game. Just look at Joe Morgan. He was a .901 OPS guy as Pete's teammate, but around .760 without Pete. Look at Johnny Bench. Best catcher of all time with Pete, but just a run of the mill .250 hitting 3B/1B and part time catcher after Pete left.

With time-lining we're talking about the best 3B, 2B, and catcher of all time. True inner circle greatness. Without Pete they wouldn't even have made the HOF.
   30. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:17 PM (#5916523)
Eric Davis.... last all-star season? 1989.
   31. Khrushin it bro Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:22 PM (#5916525)
he’s still hoping to get in before he’s “10 feet under.”


He thinks graves are 10 feet underground?
   32. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:27 PM (#5916528)
Nah, he just always likes to bet the under.
   33. . Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5916531)
It's quite obvious that having Pete around made everyone else care more about the game.


Well, the Reds did improve by a material amount when they made Rose their manager BITD. Typically, co-workers who bring a great deal of professionalism and dedication to the job can inspire their co-workers to better work.
   34. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5916532)
Besides, if the line has actually moved on the under, who would know better than Pete?
   35. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:33 PM (#5916535)
Pete always buried his enemies 10 feet under to prevent the authorities from finding them.
   36. The Mighty Quintana Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:34 PM (#5916539)
That '81 Schmidt season was a monster...overshadowed even The Hawk's greatest year. Stupid strike!
   37. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:39 PM (#5916545)
Pol Pot's got a grave. (And quite a peak.)

I mean, if you population adjust these things, Pol Pot is #1. He killed like a third of the people in his country in three years.
   38. Rally Posted: January 16, 2020 at 01:57 PM (#5916571)
Well, the Reds did improve by a material amount when they made Rose their manager BITD. Typically, co-workers who bring a great deal of professionalism and dedication to the job can inspire their co-workers to better work.


When he left the Reds for the first time, they went into a long period of decline. Same with the Phillies, went to WS with him in 1983, didn't make the playoffs for another decade. The Expos traded him in 1984 and 35 years later watched their team win the world series - in Washington.

But I wasn't going to go there for Pete's legacy as manager. The year after Rose was banned, Lou Piniella took over and they won the world series.

Losing Pete as manager was not so great a curse as losing him as a player.
   39. . Posted: January 16, 2020 at 02:32 PM (#5916599)
I mean, if you population adjust these things, Pol Pot is #1.


"GEN+"?
   40. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 16, 2020 at 02:43 PM (#5916605)
That '81 Schmidt season was a monster...overshadowed even The Hawk's greatest year. Stupid strike!


Yeah, Harrelson was on fire in 1981, especially after the strike.
   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 16, 2020 at 03:43 PM (#5916669)
I mean, if you population adjust these things, Pol Pot is #1. He killed like a third of the people in his country in three years.
Do you have to timeline for access to technology, etc.?
   42. Manny Coon Posted: January 16, 2020 at 03:57 PM (#5916682)
At Rose's suggestion maybe whoever was manager of the Reds when Rose was gambling should be banned from baseball instead.
   43. Howie Menckel Posted: January 16, 2020 at 04:57 PM (#5916707)
I remember Scot Free - toolsy corner infielder in Mets system in the '80s. had a projectible arm to play third base, but ultimately landed at first base - and couldn't hit enough there to make it to the bigs. ultimately became an agent (since he was born Free).
   44. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 16, 2020 at 05:02 PM (#5916708)
Do Scots have a reputation for getting away with stuff? Or is it like a William Wallace reference or something?
   45. DavidFoss Posted: January 16, 2020 at 06:28 PM (#5916735)
Do Scots have a reputation for getting away with stuff? Or is it like a William Wallace reference or something?

A scot was a local tax in old Britain. It comes from a Germanic root pertaining to 'casting' or 'throwing' and is related to the word 'shot'.

The Scots were named by the Romans. No one knows where they came up with the word.
   46. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 16, 2020 at 06:36 PM (#5916738)
The 9th Legion does.... that’s why the Illuminati had time travel Elvis demand the aliens drown it the Bermuda Triangle.

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