Hughes [...] ultimately leaves the game as an underrated hurler.

That seems unlikely. Before having looked at his stats, I would have guessed he had far more success than he actually did.

he made $80.3 million in his career.

that seems like fair compensation for 1291 IP of 93 ERA+

He seemed like he visited me more than he actually did.

That's only a bit over $62,000 per inning Howie, practically minimum wage if it was Steve Trachsel.

Those numbers are always nuts. Mike Trout makes over $60,000 every time he steps in the box. But I suspect Arte Moreno makes about $500 K every time he taks a whizz.

But I suspect Arte Moreno makes about $500 K every time he taks a whizz.

Maybe 20 years ago. But he's 74 now, so chances are the denominator is increasing quite a bit.

Hughes will be forever linked with Homer Bailey from the 2006 prospect lists. Both tall righties, practically the same age. It was always splitting hairs to choose your favorite. Lincecum and Matsuzaka were the other pitching prospects from the era.

The both disappointed, but managed long careers.
Hughes 88-79 93 ERA+ 11 bWAR $80 million
Bailey 81-86 90 ERA+ 5.7 bWAR $98 million (and counting...?)

It's actually an interesting question which career you'd rather have. Not from a GM's perspective but who'd you'd rather be. Hughes has a World Series, one All Star appearance and the bright lights. Bailey has two no-hitters and 25% more earnings.

It's actually an interesting question which career you'd rather have. Not from a GM's perspective but who'd you'd rather be. Hughes has a World Series, one All Star appearance and the bright lights. Bailey has two no-hitters and 25% more earnings.

I'd take the career with the ring. The money difference isn't insignificant, but its not a life changing difference.

#5 Indeed. I'm only 64 and just got up because my bladder had made some demands.

Maybe 20 years ago. But he's 74 now, so chances are the denominator is increasing quite a bit.

Depending on how he did in the GFC, I assume the numerator has increased substantially too.

So let's see ... today, he's guesstimated at $3.4 B. In theory at least, that is largely the Angels valued around $2B (what percentage is his?) after purchasing for $180 M in 2003. So a 900% return over 17 years -- seems acceptable. :-) I found a (not too reliable I think) estimate that he was worth about $1B when he signed Pujols so that's a 220% increase in 10 years (I get about 12.5% annual). I'd be willing to let Mr Moreno's financial manager take over my portfolio. On the other hand, he invested 10% of his wealth growth on Pujols which was not a wise investment.

Using that 220% increase over 10 years, if Moreno used to spend 5 minutes per day whizzing, he'd now be up to 16 minutes whizzing per day. Seems plausible.

On the other hand, he invested 10% of his wealth growth on Pujols which was not a wise investment.

I thought we were just talking about going #1. If we're taking his Pujols into account, that changes the equation.

Wasn't there a certain amount of questioning regarding the worthlessness of Pujols' Angels career?

Hughes made a smidge under half of his career earnings for the 2017-2019 seasons. $39.6M out of $80.3M

His stats in those years: 6.05 era in 86.1 IP. ERA+ of 71.

Surely at some point -- a player has released a statement "Baseball has decided to announce that I am retired".... If Steve Carlton had been a bit more quirky and bit less crazy, I feel like that would have been perfect for him...

Most importantly, this closes the book on the cubically transformed projections of the great Hughes2.50, who was once favorably compared to Eric M. Van:

http://www.nyyfansforum.com/showthread.php/103873-A-Close-Analysis-of-Yankee-Projections.

#13 I was sort of surprised he got to announce he's retiring. Most of us can't get our calls to a major league team returned either and I haven't seen any primates with a similar announcement.

Hey - that's an MLB revenue idea!

For 49.95 -- you can get an official press release from MLB announcing your gift recipient has officially "retired"! Just like those "buy someone a star" dealios...

It's so harmless - and would actually make for an amusing gift to a hard-to-buy-for baseball fans in your life.... I'm rather surprised no professional league has yet tried it.

I did the Yankee Stadium tour at least 20 years ago, and you could sign up to have a message displayed on the giant scoreboard.

once we got to the press box visit part of the tour, we watched as a series of message went up something like "Now batting third for the Yankees, Grandpa Morty" or "pitching for the Yankees, Cindy Lou Who"

I think it was about 10 bucks, with the proceeds going to charity. you got a heads-up for when yours was coming, to give you time to have your camera ready.

Still, STILL!, has the single season mark for SO/BB ratio. A staggering, video game like 11.63 SO/BB. It's one of those things where if someone from the future told you that when he was a prospect, you would have pictured very different career trajectory. That one year though...

Hughes is a guy where I think if we had the readily available velocity numbers we have now, we would have better understood why he never really performed anywhere close to the prospect hype during his time with the Yankees. From 2015-2018 he averaged about 90 MPH, as I recall he was lucky to hit 93 as a starter in NY. He was, again as I recall, sitting 96 in the minors.

Ah well, he had a good run, got a ring, and made a staggering amount of money. Now he can go sleep it off and then coach in college or whatever. Nice way to run out the clock.

Am I the only one who gets Phil Hughes mixed up with Philip Humber? I was wondering how we made it this far without mentioning the perfect game until it finally dawned on me...

Still, STILL!, has the single season mark for SO/BB ratio. A staggering, video game like 11.63 SO/BB.

I know it doesn't count because he didn't pitch quite enough innings, but that Kershaw 2016 SO/BB is one of the most bonkers stats in all of baseball history. 172 strikeouts and 11 walks. Eleven! 15.64 ratio.

Most of us can't get our calls to a major league team returned either and I haven't seen any primates with a similar announcement.

Nearly all of us still have 3 option years left.

For 49.95 -- you can get an official press release from MLB announcing your gift recipient has officially "retired"!

I'm sure the Rays would be willing to waste a level-A rule 5 pick on you for $50. (I don't know if there is such a thing.)

I know it doesn't count because he didn't pitch quite enough innings, but that Kershaw 2016 SO/BB is one of the most bonkers stats in all of baseball history. 172 strikeouts and 11 walks. Eleven! 15.64 ratio.

I had thought before I looked it up that this Kershaw season had eclipsed Hughes's, I didn't realize/remember Kershaw was short of the IP threshold.

It would make sense for someone like Kershaw to have this record, that SO/BB ration was/is a huge part of his dominance. Since 2014 his SO/BB numbers have been off the charts, or at the least Schilling-esque. Given that SO/BB rate is technically more reflective of "true talent" or whatever, you'd expect an all time great to have the single season record.

That's part of why I think it's fun that Hughes has it. Totally out of nowhere for a stat that typically represents true pitching dominance and probably his only claim to true baseball fame.

It would make sense for someone like Kershaw to have this record, that SO/BB ration was/is a huge part of his dominance. Since 2014 his SO/BB numbers have been off the charts, or at the least Schilling-esque. Given that SO/BB rate is technically more reflective of "true talent" or whatever, you'd expect an all time great to have the single season record.

If you look at the single-season leaderboard, it's an awesome mix of greats (Schilling, Pedro and Maddux are on their twice each) and huhs (Hughes, Carlos Silva, two-timer Jim Whitney and the latest entry Marco Gonzalez in 2020). Though, honestly, if Kershaw's 149 innings aren't good enough to qualify, I'm not Marco's 69-plus last year should be eligible.

Carlos Silva.... there's a blast from the past. The Cubs swapped bad contracts with the Ms (Milton Bradley), Silva actually managed to start the season something like 7-0 (and while not 7-0 good, was perfectly cromulent).... Then, for some odd reason - they just cut him and ate the final year... so they could see what true suckiness in an SP (Casey Coleman) looked like, I guess.

I love that Silva's K/BB came with a 3.4 K/9 and he gave up 16 more home runs than walks.

Hughes 88-79 93 ERA+ 11 bWAR $80 million
Bailey 81-86 90 ERA+ 5.7 bWAR $98 million (and counting...?)

I wonder who has the highest ratio of salary to wins (among starting pitchers) in ML history. Naturally there are some guys who got big bonuses and never won a game, but in terms of major-league earnings and wins … Yu Darvish has made $123M and won 71 games, that would be a starting point.

I wonder who has the highest ratio of salary to wins (among starting pitchers) in ML history. Naturally there are some guys who got big bonuses and never won a game, but in terms of major-league earnings and wins … Yu Darvish has made $123M and won 71 games, that would be a starting point.

Interesting question. Darvish is the perfect storm: current era pitcher when salaries are high but SP wins are low; highly paid in his pre-free agency years, missed major time but was good enough to get that big free agent contract.

For his generation, Darren Dreifort must have the highest $/win ratio. 48 wins and $63.8M, plus $1.3M signing bonus when he was drafted (no. 2 overall).

Kei Igawa, 2 wins $20MM. Beat it.

Carl Pavano was a steal for the Yankees at 9 wins for $38MM

Matt Cain retired at 104 wins and 134 million earned, just behind Dreifort. In his case, it was the Giants bizarre inability to convert his good pitching into victories.

King Felix is probably done at 217.6 million against 169 wins. He had the same problem as Cain, although the Mariners were shitty all the time, rather than just shitty when he pitched.

I love that Silva's K/BB came with a 3.4 K/9 and he gave up 16 more home runs than walks.

Silva is so emblematic of how I remember the Twins of that era. Their pitchers just pounded, pounded, pounded the zone, though none like Silva. His entire success came down to limiting walks, really. His K rate was astonishingly low and he gave up a fair amount of dingers, including leading the league one year with 38. And yet he was a reasonably successful pitcher. There were better pitchers and probably smarter ways to get results, but it kind of worked.

The Twins themselves were like that in those days. All their pitchers pounded the zone, they were resolutely old school in their approach even to mainstream offensive statistics, and their offense usually consisted of Mauer, Morneau, and one other guy. But they played solid defense across the board and won more often then not, including a couple of division titles. I remember finding them irritating at the time because they weren't pursuing anything close to the sabermetric vanguard -- in fact, seemed to be intentionally thumbing their noses at it -- but in retrospect they were an interesting team.

Not a pitcher, but Hector Olivera got paid $62.5 million for 108 plate appearances of 85 OPS+. I don't think it gets worse than that.

their offense usually consisted of Mauer, Morneau, and one other guy.

I remember this. They had like 2-3 corner OF/IFs who hit well as prospects but couldn't field all that well. And it seemed like only one of them would actually play well at a time. Lew Ford is the only name that is springing to mind...oh wait, Cuddyer! I kept thinking Conforto. And of course, there was the Shannon Stewart year.

I also remember waiting for Guzman to hit 15+ triples again for like 4 years before giving up.

If you look at the single-season leaderboard, it's an awesome mix of greats (Schilling, Pedro and Maddux are on their twice each) and huhs (Hughes, Carlos Silva, two-timer Jim Whitney and the latest entry Marco Gonzalez in 2020). Though, honestly, if Kershaw's 149 innings aren't good enough to qualify, I'm not Marco's 69-plus last year should be eligible.

Yeah, other than the 2020 guys it's a really interesting leaderboard. Take out the 19th century guys and it's almost all guys from the last 30 years. In some ways, it really does paint a picture of how the game has shifted since 1990. I also love that Saberhagen is still #2 on the list, I remember loving that record once I got exposed to the Saber side of things and I'm glad to see he was such an outlier that even now only one pitcher has surpassed him.

I also remember waiting for Guzman to hit 15+ triples again for like 4 years before giving up.

At least we got to see Rollins and Granderson hit 20+ in 2007.