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Monday, April 27, 2015

Pitchers batting is dumb and the DH should be universal | HardballTalk

Watching pitchers hit is like watching the bathing suit competition in a senior citizen beauty pageant.

Jim Furtado Posted: April 27, 2015 at 08:43 AM | 402 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: designated hitters, rules of play

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   1. Howie Menckel Posted: April 27, 2015 at 08:57 AM (#4940975)

and we have our official, "SEE, SEE, I TOLD YOU!" thread.

a communication style winning over hearts and minds since - wait, never.

heck, now I'm leaning against the DH if this is the "for" side....
   2. BochysFingers Posted: April 27, 2015 at 08:58 AM (#4940976)
I didn't realize Calcaterra and Jay Mariotti were the same person.
   3. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:00 AM (#4940979)
Watching pitchers hit is like watching the bathing suit competition in a senior citizen beauty pageant.

As with a senior citizen beauty pageant, turn the channel until you find something enjoyable to watch. Just leave us alone.
   4. BDC Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:10 AM (#4940988)
Pitchers batting is like … stopping a basketball game every five minutes to make the two coaches play a game of H-O-R-S-E.

I like the DH, because pitcher batting is neither good nor bad but irrelevant, and has been for well over a century. When every team sacrifices 1/9 of its opportunities at the object of the game (and very reasonably), the game needs adjustment.

   5. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:19 AM (#4940995)
heck, now I'm leaning against the DH if this is the "for" side....


Don't let the morons make your decision for you (as tempting as it is). There are idiots on all sides of pretty much every issue. That said I still don't care one way or another about this issue. I just can't summon much passion either way.
   6. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:20 AM (#4940996)
It looks like Craig has cleaned this up a bit since he first posted it. I don't see some of the "these guys got hurt because the NL is stupid and makes pitchers hit" stuff that was up there originally. If so, it wouldn't hurt to have an "edited/updated" flag at the bottom of it. That said, the argument here is simply that pitchers can't hit, and they don't get paid to hit, so why not have a DH for them. Which, okay. Fine. It's true. The best pitchers can't hit a lick, and the over-lap in the Venn between "players who can sort of pitch" and "players who can sort of hit" seems to be "Rick Ankiel." So yeah; pitchers can't hit. And a plurality, and what seems to be a growing majority of fans, don't want to watch them try. So okay, fine.

The follow on question to that train of thought is why should we make middle infielders and centerfielders not named "Mike Trout" hit? The skill set required to be a world class defender up the middle, or truth be told, a world class defender at *any* position, is completely different from the skill set required to hit. So why combine the two jobs at all? Much like pitchers, SS's are sui generis when it comes to their defensive abilities. Why not have super talented Andrelton Simmons clones who can't hit a lick play the best defense in the world, but have a real hitter hit in his spot in the lineup? Why not DH there too? The argument here is to let real, honest to god hitters hit, not specialized defenders (pitchers) who can't hit at all. So why limit that to pitchers? Why not just have specialized offensive and defensive sides like football? That way fans get to see the best of the best hit against the best of the best defenders. Much better quality product than watching all glove infielders fling away hopelessly at pitches they have no chance to even catch up to, right?
   7. dlf Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:34 AM (#4941008)
With the changes in pitcher usage, the DH is becoming less and less of an issue. A reliever is essentially never called on to hit and as IP have gone down, pitcher PAs have too. It's a shame I'm nearly criminally lazy about some things, but I'd welcome a more enterprising poster with PI access who can chart the decline in pitcher ABs. So the question is whether a fan wants 2-3 different PHs who usually have other duties on the team or concentrate those ABs in a one-dimensional player. Its purely an esthetic argument and anyone who suggests otherwise is being silly, but my personal preference is away from the DH.
   8. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:37 AM (#4941013)
BA (Matt Eddy) with a pro-DH argument as well.

For what it's worth, I think we should add the DH to the NL as well.
   9. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:43 AM (#4941019)
So the question is whether a fan wants 2-3 different PHs who usually have other duties on the team or concentrate those ABs in a one-dimensional player. Its purely an esthetic argument and anyone who suggests otherwise is being silly, but my personal preference is away from the DH.


I would be better with a tweak that allows you to PH for the starting pitcher once, without taking him out of the game, but you lose that defender/PH from your 25 man just as you would have previously. So if you have a guy that's going well in the 5th or 6th but a need for a PH spot, PH for him, burn that hitter, and let him take another spin through the rotation if you like. But the hitter is done for the day after that AB, and if you PH for the starter again, he's gone.
   10. Blastin Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:46 AM (#4941022)
Pitchers hitting is a dumb, archaic novelty.
   11. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:51 AM (#4941025)
Okay, Blastin. So why should SS's have to hit?
   12. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 09:54 AM (#4941031)
It looks like Craig has cleaned this up a bit since he first posted it. I don't see some of the "these guys got hurt because the NL is stupid and makes pitchers hit" stuff that was up there originally. If so, it wouldn't hurt to have an "edited/updated" flag at the bottom of it.



The only thing that has changed in this post were a few typos. There is a section in there that says that this is not an "oh noes! Wainwright got hurt so end the DH now!" thing, even if that did suggest the subject. That was in there from the beginning.

In the less than 24 hours since I posted this, I have seen a lot of weird and emotional reaction to it, a LOT of it clearly based on people not having read it or not having read it closely. I think your observation in this regard falls under that category.
   13. Lassus Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:03 AM (#4941039)
I think adding the DH to the NL is similar reasoning to standardizing ballparks and moving in fences for more HR. Standardization is boring, boring, boring. Way more boring than pitchers hitting. It's the Co-op City argument. blah.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:05 AM (#4941040)
my search isn't working, but I can't find the ridiculous line about old people and beauty pageants anymore. was that a typo?

also the headline undeniably shameless clickbait, and it would be weird to react otherwise to that observation. It also has an offputting tone to it - if that wasn't intentional, then you have some learnin' to do.

and since you're fixing typos, Akry Vaughan would like a word with you.
   15. Scott Lange Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:07 AM (#4941043)
I can see myself now, in a nursing home, in 2065, shedding a single tear as Addison Russell, Jr., the last two-way player, announces his retirement, leaving every team in the majors sending nine batters out to hit and a different nine fielders out to field. Sigh.
   16. bbmck Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:10 AM (#4941045)
100+ Games, 100 or lower OPS+, 1+ dWar in 2014:

Rk               Player dWAR OPS+  Tm
1     Andrelton Simmons  3.9   74 ATL
2           Zack Cozart  2.8   61 CIN
3        Ender Inciarte  2.5   89 ARI
4           DJ LeMahieu  2.2   76 COL
5         Leonys Martin  2.2   95 TEX
6        Salvador Perez  2.1   90 KCR
7            J
.JHardy  2.1   93 BAL
8        Jackie Bradley  2.0   50 BOS
9          Jarrod Dyson  1.9   82 KCR
10      Jonathan Schoop  1.8   67 BAL
11       Billy Hamilton  1.8   83 CIN
12         Jordy Mercer  1.6   95 PIT
13          Daniel Nava  1.5  100 BOS
14       Alexi Amarista  1.5   76 SDP
15           Alex Avila  1.5   91 DET
16        Tyler Flowers  1.4   95 CHW
17   Welington Castillo  1.2   89 CHC
18          Kolten Wong  1.2   89 STL
19         Jason Castro  1.1   83 HOU
20          David Lough  1.0   96 BAL 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 4/27/2015.

So Baltimore could benefit the most from expanding the DH, but do they have the roster spots, salary room and available players to have DHs for all those players? September solves the roster spot issue but doesn't address either of the other issues, sign who for how much to mash AAA and hit for Andrelton in Sept?
   17. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:11 AM (#4941046)
In the less than 24 hours since I posted this, I have seen a lot of weird and emotional reaction to it, a LOT of it clearly based on people not having read it or not having read it closely. I think your observation in this regard falls under that category.


I'm not emoting on the subject. I don't prefer DH-ball aesthetically, and can certainly make arguments for my position, but I'm not religious about it any more. But I do think you're using the wrong thing here as a stepping stone to build a (bad-ish) argument for the DH, just because it was handy. And if you are the weather eye on the mainstream media for bad arguments, well, someone has to watch the watchers.

I've asked a couple of times now, and haven't seen sufficient answer to my question; why is pitcher the only specialized defensive position you want to have a DH for? Your logic, at it's core, is "let hitters hit, and defenders defend." A pitcher is just a super specialized defender. If we follow that line of thinking to it's conclusion, you have specialized sides, like football.
   18. Lest we forget Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:11 AM (#4941047)
Really, the way this should evolve is to raise the roster to 35 and implement offense, defense and running units to supplement designated pitchers, and play the game with free and unlimited substitutions.

Baseball is no different than everything everywhere, and moving toward increased specialization, and ultimately, it plays out like mentioned. Why wait two centuries for the inevitable? You know this is coming, you just know it.

   19. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:12 AM (#4941048)
my search isn't working, but I can't find the ridiculous line about old people and beauty pageants anymore. was that a typo?


That was Jim's lede to this thread. It never appeared in my post.

And "clickbait" is something disingenuous or sensationalistic that teases people into clicking on something when they might not have. My headline is pretty damn representative of what's in the post. I specifically say pitchers batting is dumb in there and that I think the DH should be universal. Your finding an argument shocking or unwelcome does not render it "clickbait"
   20. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:14 AM (#4941051)
There is one good aesthetic argument for the DH: pitchers suck at hitting, and you don't want to see them.
There is one good philosophical argument for the DH: NL teams clearly don't care about the hitting of their pitchers.

There is one good aesthetic argument against the DH: some people like watching pitcher's hit, either because it introduces more small ball, because the occasional pitcher hit is fun, etc.
There is one good philosophical argument against the DH: baseball is played by nine players, all of whom have both defensive and offensive reasons.

I think the rest of the reasons frequently spouted (it costs more money, it's a competitive advantage, ooh the injuries), simply aren't true.

All that's left, to me, is the fact as long as there are people who fall in that second set of fans, I don't know why baseball would want to #### around with the rule. Adopting the DH leaguewide is not going to create new fans, but it can alienate old ones.
   21. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:17 AM (#4941052)
why is pitcher the only specialized defensive position you want to have a DH for?


Because there are limits to how many roster spots a team can have? We have 42 years of experience showing us that one extra guy is not disruptive to a team, roster construction or team finances. We are not going to see any club want to go to 35-man rosters.

More fundamentally, because pitcher hitting is leaps and bounds worse than any other position player hitting. There are tons of all-star and league average hitters at every position. None at pitcher. It's a pretty obvious stopping point.

Indeed, there are a lot of "beware the slippery slope!" arguments in response to them. They suffer from the same flaws as most slippery slope arguments: ignoring the very clear and reasonable stopping points. In this case, one that has not been crossed or even advocated for in nearly half a century.
   22. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:19 AM (#4941056)
THere is one good aeshetic argument against the DH: some people like watching pitcher's hit, either because it introduces more small ball, because the occasional pitcher hit is fun, etc.

I watched Bartolo Colon bat for the first time when the Amazins visited DC for Opening Day. Other than the Mets winning the game, those PAs were the highlights of the afternoon.
   23. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:20 AM (#4941057)
Does anyone know of a way to look at AL vs. NL (over time) in stolen bases, reliever appearances, and sacrifices since the advent of the DH?

For me, I enjoy the strategic consequences of pitchers as hitters but I am curious to see the level of divergence in these categories.
   24. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:28 AM (#4941062)
Because there are limits to how many roster spots a team can have? We have 42 years of experience showing us that one extra guy is not disruptive to a team, roster construction or team finances. We are not going to see any club want to go to 35-man rosters.


And prior to 1973 we had a hundred or so years of experience showing us that pitchers were part of the baseball team, and were expected to hit. You can't have your arbitrary traditionalism a la carte, just because it's convenient to you. You've already done away with the notion that traditionalism is a valid argument in the original piece.

More fundamentally, because pitcher hitting is leaps and bounds worse than any other position player hitting. There are tons of all-star and league average hitters at every position. None at pitcher. It's a pretty obvious stopping point.


And it's pretty obviously arbitrary. It certainly isn't premised on your first principle argument that the best hitters should hit. If we're going to get rid of the WORST hitting defender (pitchers), at that point the second worst (I'd guess C or SS) becomes the worst. And your only argument for not DH'ing for them is "nah, that's not something I think we should do because they're not as bad as pitchers were." Again, arbitrary traditionalism when it's convenient, disposed of when it's not.
   25. Howie Menckel Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:28 AM (#4941063)

"That was Jim's lede to this thread. It never appeared in my post."

huh. my apologies, then.

"And "clickbait" is something disingenuous or sensationalistic that teases people into clicking on something when they might not have. My headline is pretty damn representative of what's in the post. I specifically say pitchers batting is dumb in there and that I think the DH should be universal. Your finding an argument shocking or unwelcome does not render it "clickbait""

ok
   26. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:30 AM (#4941066)
"And "clickbait" is something disingenuous or sensationalistic that teases people into clicking on something when they might not have. My headline is pretty damn representative of what's in the post. I specifically say pitchers batting is dumb in there and that I think the DH should be universal. Your finding an argument shocking or unwelcome does not render it "clickbait""


You'll never believe who is still allowed to bat at MLB games - this article is everything!
   27. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:32 AM (#4941069)
You can't have your arbitrary traditionalism a la carte, just because it's convenient to you. You've already done away with the notion that traditionalism is a valid argument in the original piece.


I did. Because traditionalism is no good argument for anything, really. At least not by itself. That's what seems to be pissing so many people off about this, I think.

But as for my roster construction/42 years of DH comments, those aren't traditionalist arguments. The former is one of practicality, noting that it is not unlikely that MLB would ever expand rosters like that. The latter is to rebut the notion that adding the DH in the NL would somehow be disastrous. It's a citation to data.

Wanna get rid of the DH altogether and just have eight-man lineups in both leagues? I'd be on board. The idea is to get rid of the farce that is pitchers batting. I don't care how you do it. I'm not married to the DH.
   28. bbmck Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:32 AM (#4941070)
The primary difference between the DH in the professional and amateur games is that the DH may bat in place of one player in any position in most amateur baseball leagues such as those that use National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) rules. Most high school coaches use a designated hitter in place of the weakest hitter in the lineup, if they use one at all. In amateur baseball, many pitchers are also good hitters and will often play another position (or even DH) when not pitching.

If MLB used the high school rule how many games in a season would anyone but the pitcher be replaced in the lineup with a DH? I assume it would be so rare that managers might not be willing to do it unless the pitcher is clearly a better hitter knowing the headline the next day will be about Andrelton/Cozart/whoever being the first or one of the very few position player(s) replaced in the batting order under the new rule.
   29. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:34 AM (#4941072)
And "clickbait" is something disingenuous or sensationalistic that teases people into clicking on something when they might not have. My headline is pretty damn representative of what's in the post.


I will happily concede that the contents of the piece are just as disingenuous and sensationalistic as the headline.

I had really expected better from you, Craig. You used to be cool, man. What happened?
   30. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:35 AM (#4941074)
Count me in as a pro-DH vote. Watching the pitchers flail away is pointless.
   31. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:36 AM (#4941077)
I had really expected better from you, Craig. You used to be cool, man. What happened?


I'm still cool. The rest of the world got lame. /s

Seriously, though: what's disingenuous about my post? You may disagree with it. I may simply be wrong. But disingenuous? Really?
   32. Baldrick Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:36 AM (#4941079)
Could not agree with post 20 more.

If I had to pick 'no DH anywhere' or 'only DH' I'd go for the latter. But I can understand the joy of watching the occasional pitcher hit, and I understand the philosophical hard line. And I'm pretty happy with the two leagues doing things differently.

It honestly kind of baffles me how the DH has become such a THING for some people. I've seen numerous folks around here--regular commenters who obviously spend huge portions of their lives thinking about baseball--say that they will never watch the game again if the NL adopts the DH. I mean, I guess if you feel that strongly, those are legitimate feelings. But it seems like saying "I'll never go to my favorite restaurant again because they changed their silverware."
   33. PreservedFish Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:39 AM (#4941082)
The difference is not totally arbitrary. Pitchers are not expected to contribute any offense at all. If a pitcher hit .000, it would have virtually no impact on his reputation or salary. Shortstops and catchers and center fielders are still expected to hit.

For the record, I'm not pro-DH. But I do think that this argument (that the game has evolved to the point that pitcher offense is uniquely irrelevant) is sound.

When we start seeing lots of starting shortstops hitting .050-.150, in fact, when people stop even paying attention to how they are hitting, then we can ask why shortstops don't have designated hitters too.
   34. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:40 AM (#4941084)
But as for my roster construction/42 years of DH comments, those aren't traditionalist arguments. The former is one of practicality, noting that it is not unlikely that MLB would ever expand rosters like that. The latter is to rebut the notion that adding the DH in the NL would somehow be disastrous. It's a citation to data.


I find the roster construction argument lacking. If you walked up to any ML manager today and said "starting Sunday of next week, you can DH for your pitcher and your worst hitter that you'd prefer to play defense" every team in baseball, AL to NL, would have two DH's in the lineup with the pitcher and one of the 8 defenders sitting. They'd do it immediately, with the 25 man rosters they have today. And within a month, they'd have adjusted those 25 man rosters to pull in another hitter and drop one of their 13 pitchers or one of the emergency infielders.
   35. PreservedFish Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:42 AM (#4941089)
Yes, #20 is an excellent contribution.
   36. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:43 AM (#4941091)
I've seen numerous folks around here--regular commenters who obviously spend huge portions of their lives thinking about baseball--say that they will never watch the game again if the NL adopts the DH.

I'm not sure about this. It may just be Zeth saying that in every possible thread where it might be relevant.
   37. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:45 AM (#4941093)
Seriously, though: what's disingenuous about my post? You may disagree with it. I may simply be wrong. But disingenuous? Really?


"I actually like that my friend Chris used that term — “abomination” — by the way, because it gives up the whole game for most anti-DH people. The word “abomination” is a religious term. And adherence to pitchers batting is more religion than it is reason. Based on beliefs, history and faith rather than reason and objective evidence."

Using a single word allegedly said by an anonymous dude that none of us have ever met in order to disseminate the smear that people who like the DH are all small-minded fundamentalists immune to logic or reason is hardly the sort of argument used by a person interested in intelligent debate over an issue.

Just because people do not find your individual arguments persuasive does not imply that they are averse to the concept of reason itself. If you aren't deliberately trolling with that, then your ego is showing.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:48 AM (#4941096)
I'm not sure about this.


I am, since I'm one of them.
   39. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:50 AM (#4941097)
Using a single word allegedly said by an anonymous dude that none of us have ever met


That's Chris Dial. Many of us have met him. And I linked to his tweet where he actually said it. And if you think his view on that is singular, head over to Twitter and check out my replies for the past two days. A HUGE number of them are one-word responses like "no!" and "never!" And there is a TON of stuff about the DH being "unnatural" and "against the essence of baseball" and stuff like that.

I write a lot on the internet. I get a lot of comments. I have never, in my life, seen as much reflexive negative sentiment to any topic as I have seen to the DH. If you do not believe that there are a lot of people who oppose the DH on traditionalist grounds, you haven't spoken to a lot of people on the topic.
   40. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:50 AM (#4941098)
37 and 38 are a fantastic juxtaposition.
   41. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:51 AM (#4941100)
I specifically say pitchers batting is dumb in there and that I think the DH should be universal. Your finding an argument shocking or unwelcome does not render it "clickbait"

That's the argument not of a sportsman, but of a fussbudget.

Pitchers hit because they're part of a baseball lineup (*), and people in a baseball lineup hit.(**) When they don't, the sport is inferior.

(*) They're part of a baseball lineup because they're part of the defense.

(**) There's nothing remotely "dumb" about that simple principle. Deviating from it is what's dumb.
   42. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:52 AM (#4941103)
So what happened to all the AL fans who abandoned the sport when their team adopted the DH 40 years ago? Does that explain the brief era of sold-out NASL stadiums?
   43. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:53 AM (#4941107)
The follow on question to that train of thought is why should we make middle infielders and centerfielders not named "Mike Trout" hit? The skill set required to be a world class defender up the middle, or truth be told, a world class defender at *any* position, is completely different from the skill set required to hit. So why combine the two jobs at all?

Bingo.

And the skill set for being a great hitter and a great baserunner are also completely different, so why are David Ortiz and Prince Fielder running the bases?
   44. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:56 AM (#4941109)
37 and 38 are a fantastic juxtaposition.


I'm not a fundamentalist. I just find the DH extremely distasteful for a number of reasons. So if I have a choice between watching MLB baseball with the DH or watching non-MLB baseball without it, I'll choose the latter, even if it means a decrease in the overall quality of play.

If I end up coaching a bunch of eight-year-olds in order to get my fix, rather than sitting in front of the TV at home, that's hardly the worst thing in the world. More DH ball for you to enjoy.
   45. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:57 AM (#4941111)
I think adding the DH to the NL is similar reasoning to standardizing ballparks and moving in fences for more HR. Standardization is boring, boring, boring. Way more boring than pitchers hitting. It's the Co-op City argument. blah.

Bingo, Part Deux. The pro-DH, pitchers can't hit because they might get an ouchie, argument is a fussy, spreadsheety one whose origins lie in the type of obsessions that come over certain people when the debit and credit sides of a general ledger don't quite exactly match. You'll likely find a lot of overlap with fans of accurate and precise 70s era progressive rock.
   46. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 27, 2015 at 10:58 AM (#4941113)
SugarBear Blanks, this slippery-slope argument is moronic. Nobody is suggesting designated baserunners. Nobody is suggesting that there should be more than one DH. No team ignores how shortstops hit. Every team ignores how pitchers hit. This has been true for 40 years in both the AL and the NL.
   47. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM (#4941119)
If I end up coaching a bunch of eight-year-olds in order to get my fix, rather than sitting in front of the TV at home, that's hardly the worst thing in the world. More DH ball for you to enjoy.


Then I've got news for you. The brand of baseball 8 YOs play is far different than MLB with the DH. Players are freely substituted on defense. Everybody bats in the lineup, regardless if they are in the field. Runners cannot leadoff and cannot leave their base until the pitch crosses the plate. There is no dropped third strike rule. There is a 10 run mercy rule. Pitchers have a strict daily pitch limit and mandatory days of rest depending on how many pitches they throw on a given day. And so on.
   48. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM (#4941120)
No team ignores how shortstops hit. Every team ignores how pitchers hit.

And teams ignore how David Ortiz and Prince Fielder run the bases. Moreover, as others have said, the fact that teams don't really care how well a player executes one skill vis-a-vis his more important skill doesn't mean the rules of the game should be changed to eliminate the player from having to execute that skill. How does that remotely follow?

   49. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:03 AM (#4941121)
Every team ignores how pitchers hit.

I don't think this is true, exactly. For example, I doubt Travis Wood would be a Cub if not for his hitting. Not that I have any particularly convincing evidence for that fact.
   50. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:05 AM (#4941125)
Nobody is suggesting that there should be more than one DH.


The fact that the move hasn't been made yet does not mean it's not a move of the same variety, based on the same logic.
   51. Jim Furtado Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:09 AM (#4941133)
OK, so how many people don't watch any games with the DH? No interleague games at AL parks. No World Series games at AL parks.
   52. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:09 AM (#4941136)
I watched Bartolo Colon bat for the first time when the Amazins visited DC for Opening Day. Other than the Mets winning the game, those PAs were the highlights of the afternoon.

How dare you enjoy watching someone who's not the very best at what they do!!
   53. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:14 AM (#4941142)
Carlos Zambrano, in 774 PAs, had a higher career OPS+ than Johnnie LeMaster.
   54. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:15 AM (#4941143)
That's Chris Dial. Many of us have met him.


Is that true for all of your audience? If not, as I suspect, then the principle still applies.

And if you think his view on that is singular, head over to Twitter and check out my replies for the past two days. A HUGE number of them are one-word responses like "no!" and "never!" And there is a TON of stuff about the DH being "unnatural" and "against the essence of baseball" and stuff like that.


Nutpicking is the last refuge of the lazy columnist. Any discussion forum of sufficient size (and Twitter certainly qualifies there) is going to have a fairly large number of irrelevant or nonsensical comments made by stupid ########. As an example, let's pick a random video from the current featured section of YouTube ("Meets puppy for the first time", with 1,011,954 views). On the first page of comments, we've got a small flame war over the relative fashion senses of Persians and Armenians, two people complaining because the bed that the puppy is sitting on doesn't have any sheets on it, a guy plugging his channel of video game Let's Plays, lots of people speculating about how much sex the guy who posted the video got from his girlfriend for giving her the puppy, people joking about the two of them eating the puppy (because they're not white! hilarious!), and one guy who doesn't really see why puppies are such a big deal, anyway. The idiocy of the majority of those comments doesn't mean that it's not possible to have a reasonable discussion about the merits of that particular video with people who aren't idiots, and if you were to say, "Well, the majority of the pro-/anti- video people are just racist misogynists, so their opinions don't count," you would be willfully closing off exactly the sort of discussion that you claim to be lamenting that you can't have.

I have never, in my life, seen as much reflexive negative sentiment to any topic as I have seen to the DH.


Which might be good grounds for a column, if you felt like putting the actual work in, rather than posting lazy, sensationalistic clickbait.
   55. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:16 AM (#4941145)
Sorry, I think Vlad was the person who is constantly talking about how much he hates the DH, not Zeth. But I was wrong, there are a couple other people like him as well.
   56. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:17 AM (#4941147)
OK, so how many people don't watch any games with the DH? No interleague games at AL parks. No World Series games at AL parks.


I will occasionally watch a World Series game if it's on, even in the DH park. But not all the time. I rarely watch interleague games, but I don't actively avoid them. I never watch AL only teams play.
   57. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:17 AM (#4941148)
Which might be good grounds for a column, if you felt like putting the actual work in, rather than posting lazy, sensationalistic clickbait.


So I have to hire Gallup every time I make an observation about the interactions I have with people every day? Good to know!
   58. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:17 AM (#4941151)
And "clickbait" is something disingenuous or sensationalistic that teases people into clicking on something when they might not have. My headline is pretty damn representative of what's in the post. I specifically say pitchers batting is dumb in there and that I think the DH should be universal. Your finding an argument shocking or unwelcome does not render it "clickbait"


Agree with Craig here.
   59. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:19 AM (#4941154)
There is one good philosophical argument against the DH: baseball is played by nine players, all of whom have both defensive and offensive reasons.


Pitcher has always been a separate class of baseball player, unlike a second baseman or an outfielder, due to literally being able to bat .000 and keep their jobs.

I'm amazed that people who have followed this game all of their lives don't see that.
   60. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:19 AM (#4941157)
OK, so how many people don't watch any games with the DH? No interleague games at AL parks. No World Series games at AL parks.


Why does it have to be absolute? Even if rabidly anti-DH Vlad doesn't give up the game completely, if his interest in MLB's product diminishes because the NL adopts the DH, then baseball loses. In contrast, there's no reason to think people will be suddenly more interested in NL ball with a DH, because if they're so fervently anti-pitcher hitting, they've got at least six options nightly to satisfy their cravings.


I'm amazed that people who have followed this game all of their lives don't see that.


They have historically been, and remain in the several places, one of nine baseball players, with both offensive and defensive responsibilities (if not abilities). Your chronic myopia doesn't change that.
   61. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:20 AM (#4941158)
The former is one of practicality, noting that it is not unlikely that MLB would ever expand rosters like that.

You wouldn't need to expand the rosters. For runners, you could simply get rid of the rule that a player is out of the game for good when he's substituted for. Bingo, one to three far better runners than David Ortiz. As long as the spreadsheets aren't aligned if a baseball player is asked to perform a skill he isn't very good at, why not?
   62. villageidiom Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:21 AM (#4941163)
The idea is to get rid of the farce that is pitchers batting. I don't care how you do it.
How about providing more significant advantages to pitching that it minimizes the difference in offense between pitchers and non-pitchers?

I'm thinking the reverse of the inflated offense era. In that era, you had position players who were clearly selected for their hitting ability alone. You had two-way players who were horrible on one side of the ball, but deemed acceptable because they were so good on the other side of the ball. Well, the same is true for pitchers right now.

In order for hitting skill for pitchers to be selected, the pool of players who could be effective pitchers would need to be expanded. So raise the mound, and move it closer to the plate, and make it two strikes and you're out. And voila! Kris Bryant, major league pitcher.
   63. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:22 AM (#4941165)
But the double switch is so HARD, man. So hard.

Anti-DH people are flat earthers here, insisting that X is true when everyone else knows that X is false.
   64. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:24 AM (#4941167)
The brand of baseball 8 YOs play is far different than MLB with the DH. Players are freely substituted on defense. Everybody bats in the lineup, regardless if they are in the field. Runners cannot leadoff and cannot leave their base until the pitch crosses the plate. There is no dropped third strike rule. There is a 10 run mercy rule. Pitchers have a strict daily pitch limit and mandatory days of rest depending on how many pitches they throw on a given day. And so on.


Not all of those things are true in the LL here (or at least they weren't when my cousins were playing in it 5-10 years ago), and the ones that are true are things that I find much less objectionable than the DH. On the whole, I'd rather watch the NL play real baseball, like I'm doing now, but if I can't have that, then LL might still be the best of an inferior set of options (depending on what kind of information is available on NPB - I haven't looked into it all that seriously, because I haven't needed to).
   65. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:24 AM (#4941170)
I grew up a fan of an AL team, post-DH, and have always believed DH ball an inferior brand to the National League. If you calculated non-Tiger games watched since 1975, it's probably 90-10 NL.

The beer league brand of DH Moneyball with little bunting, little pinch hitting, and little running and a bunch of Ks and BBs, is far and away the least aesthetically pleasing brand of baseball in my lifetime.(*) If you want baseball to devolve into simply a skills competition, there's always Home Run Derby.

(*) And most likely any lifetime.
   66. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:26 AM (#4941171)
So I have to hire Gallup every time I make an observation about the interactions I have with people every day?


No, but if you're going to engage with arguments in a discussion piece, you should try to choose ones that have merit and engage them in an intelligent manner, rather than just saying HURR DURR REACTIONARY FUNDAMENTALISTS.
   67. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM (#4941174)
The beer league brand of DH Moneyball with little bunting, little pinch hitting, and little running is far and away the least aesthetically pleasing brand of baseball in my lifetime.(*)


Agreed. But I think it's a mistake to think that is because of the DH. It's because teams have gradually decided that they get the best chance to win from having more pitchers on the roster instead of potential pinch-hitters and pinch-runners.

[edited]
   68. Jim Furtado Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:29 AM (#4941176)
Why does it have to be absolute? Even if rabidly anti-DH Vlad doesn't give up the game completely, if his interest in MLB's product diminishes because the NL adopts the DH, then baseball loses. In contrast, there's no reason to think people will be suddenly more interested in NL ball with a DH, because if they're so fervently anti-pitcher hitting, they've got at least six options nightly to satisfy their cravings.

If the DH were instituted in the NL tomorrow, there would be no discernible impact on attendance or ratings. None.
   69. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM (#4941177)
One of the things I like about the status quo is that it is the last vestige of differences between the leagues.

Craig for what it's worth I generally like your stuff but I think you saying the DH hitting is "stupid" is, well if not clickbait certainly I think you are better than that. At the end of the day this is purely an aesthetic opinion situation.
   70. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM (#4941178)
Anti-DH people are flat earthers here, insisting that X is true when everyone else knows that X is false.


And pro-DHers are the gay marriage opponents. It's not enough that you can find a spouse and be happy, the world won't be right unless those "other people" can't.

Can we get back to baseball now?

Do you believe that Vlad and Lisa and Dial and other NL fans are lying? That they really do prefer DH ball, but they can't bring themselves to admit the truth? If not, all the things that you and (sadly, Craig) have been saying are just nonsense.

It's fair to prefer a game where the pitcher doesn't hit. It's truly odd to tell others people they're wrong for doing so.

If the DH were instituted in the NL tomorrow, there would be no discernible impact on attendance or ratings. None.


Delivering that statement in your best Ray voice doesn't make that any more true Jim.

   71. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:33 AM (#4941182)
head over to Twitter and check out my replies for the past two days. A HUGE number of them are one-word responses like "no!" and "never!"


Also, why are you complaining about short and dismissive replies on Twitter? Isn't getting a quick and shallow hot take the whole point of a medium where you're limited to 140 characters?
   72. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:35 AM (#4941185)
And pro-DHers are the gay marriage opponents. It's not enough that you can find a spouse and be happy, the world won't be right unless those "other people" can't.


Actually, the exact opposite argument has been made. Specifically in the book "Debating Same-Sex Marriage" By John Corvino, Maggie Gallagher. It's kind of interesting. Having trouble linking it, but the excerpt is the second result in a Google search for "same sex marriage and the designated hitter"

   73. bunyon Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:36 AM (#4941188)
If the DH were instituted in the NL tomorrow, there would be no discernible impact on attendance or ratings. None.

How about on page hits at your site?
   74. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:37 AM (#4941191)
If the DH were instituted in the NL tomorrow, there would be no discernible impact on attendance or ratings. None.

The mallpark illusion, in different guise.
   75. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:38 AM (#4941193)
Also, why are you complaining about short and dismissive replies on Twitter? Isn't getting a quick and shallow hot take the whole point of a medium where you're limited to 140 characters?


Some of the better debates I've had in the past several years have been on Twitter. That's a reductionist caricature of the medium.
   76. Lord Palmerston Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:39 AM (#4941194)
Count me in on the anti-DH team. I can't stand AL baseball, having grown up on NL baseball. I only watch AL games when the Cardinals are in interleague play, and even then I hate the DH, and find myself missing NL baseball.

I don't understand why the pro-DH crowd is so rabid and eager to dismiss those of us who prefer NL baseball. Why is it so hard to understand that many of us would prefer to watch a pitcher bat, even if he's terrible? I think the DH is an affront to baseball, and I'd rather see Clayton Kershaw run out a double than I would David Ortiz do anything, ever. I don't care if David Ortiz is a great hitter (and in truth, most DHs are more Jack Cust than David Ortiz); I'd rather see every player on the field bat, even if they happen to be terrible at it.

Why is that so hard to understand?
   77. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:40 AM (#4941196)
Actually, the exact opposite argument has been made.


I'm sure it has been made. But it was a shitty one. There's a style of play for fans who don't think like you do on the issue. You want that fixed. If we're making analogies, that puts you closer to NOM than Freedom to Marry.
   78. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:40 AM (#4941197)
And pro-DHers are the gay marriage opponents. It's not enough that you can find a spouse and be happy, the world won't be right unless those "other people" can't.


Funny, I was going to analogize anti-DHers to gay marriage opponents -- that the country has passed them by -- but I didn't want to interject politics into the thread. So let's drop it. You people can "have" your DH, although that argument makes no sense, for a few reasons. (Hint: I don't care if you have something I have no interest in, be it no DH or be it Roseanne Barr.) The problem is that this isn't a binary thing because I watch games played under NL rules too.

So I don't understand the criticism "You keep your DH and we keep our no DH and OH MI GAWD CRY CRY CRY WHY DO YOU WANT TO RUIN OUR GAME!?!?!?!?!" This might make sense if I only watched games played under AL rules. But I'm a baseball fan, so I watch baseball, including games played under NL rules. When I do, I don't want to see the pitcher hit, and I don't find it more "interesting" or "exciting" or more strategy-oriented.

(I'm a Red Sox fan but I don't get the Red Sox games so when I watch it's mainly either nationally televised games or Yankees/Mets. Plenty of games played under NL rules there. So the criticism makes zero sense.)

I want the NL to have the DH because when I watch games played under NL rules I'd prefer the DH. Anti-DHers have some victim complex here but everything isn't all about them.
   79. bunyon Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:40 AM (#4941198)
Hell, as for people starting to watch a NL with a DH most of the people here - huge baseball fans - often tell me they wouldn't recognize Buster Posey because he plays too late or in a city they don't care for. People are, generally, provincial ########. The NL will not be more attractive with a DH. If you're a Red Sox fan, you're not going to suddenly start attending/following Padres games because there is a DH. But there are some guys in San Diego who may stop.

As I said in the other thread, I won't stop watching/caring about baseball. I will watch less. I will enjoy it less. I will come here less. Maybe you'll pick a couple of other guys up in my place and you (and baseball) will have profited.
   80. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:43 AM (#4941202)
Actually, the exact opposite argument has been made. Specifically in the book "Debating Same-Sex Marriage" By John Corvino, Maggie Gallagher.


Maggie Gallagher is an idiot and a bigot. I'm not familiar with Corvino.

For me, the search you suggested returns this page as its second result, which doesn't seem to contain anything useful.
   81. bunyon Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:43 AM (#4941204)
They aren't bad arguments, Ray, they're subjective ones. You don't like a game in which pitchers hit. I don't like a game in which they don't.* There is no right or wrong. Right now, we can both see our optimal game. You'd like me not to be able to.


* Actually, we both like each other's games a little less, not "not like".

EDIT: I seem to have responded to a post that was deleted while I was typing.
   82. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:43 AM (#4941205)
I'm sure it has been made. But it was a shitty one.


Well, both are because it's a shitty construct.
   83. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:43 AM (#4941206)
Isn't the general history of MLB that increased offense leads to increased attendance? Chicks dig the longball. I saw it in a commercial so it must be true.
   84. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:46 AM (#4941208)
Some of the better debates I've had in the past several years have been on Twitter.


I wish you had written about one of those instead. Then, I might have learned something, or been entertained.
   85. . Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:47 AM (#4941209)
The NL will not be more attractive with a DH.

It will be less attractive, significantly so.
   86. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:47 AM (#4941213)
This might make sense if I only watched games played under AL rules. But I'm a baseball fan, so I watch baseball, including games played under NL rules. When I do, I don't want to see the pitcher hit, and I don't find it more "interesting" or "exciting" or more strategy-oriented.


But others do. And they're not wrong, because someone else's preference is not something you get a say in, despite your dogged attempts to change that.

Well, both are because it's a shitty construct.


Probably on par with the truly crappy Dial argument Vlad pulled out in 37.

I like your work, but this wasn't good.

   87. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:52 AM (#4941218)
I don't understand why the pro-DH crowd is so rabid and eager to dismiss those of us who prefer NL baseball.

I think the opposite is true (as this discussion shows). The anti-DH people are far more strident. I'm pro DH, but don't particularly care if the NL maintains the status quo. It's just not that big a deal one way or the other. But refusing to watch MLB if the DH is adopted in the NL seems absurd to me.
   88. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:53 AM (#4941219)
There is a lot of sentiment that goes "why can't the DH people acknowledge that some of us LIKE pitchers batting."

That's a good point. And, as I wrote in my post and have written often over the years, I'm actually one of them. I am a Braves fan. I like NL baseball. My feelings here, however, have nothing to do with what I like and everything to do with the fact that, sometimes, what we like and what makes sense as the rules of an institution are not the same thing.

I like train travel. I like automats. I print out my boarding pass because I just feel better having it that way. But what I prefer in these instances has very little to do with what is objectively better. Planes are faster and, per mile, way cheaper. Automats make shitty food. Printing wastes trees. Let no man tell me what I like or don't, but at some point even old farts like me have to acknowledge that my preference is for something inferior.

This is not the case with all things, of course. Music, art, styles of cooking and a zillion other things allow for varied tastes and lack of that judgment about inferiority or superiority. There are a lot of things in baseball that are like that too: stirrups or long pants. Stadium styles. Broadcaster preferences. The very team we root for,

But I think the DH/pitcher thing is more like the automats, less like the stirrups/long pants. Hitting is measured objectively. DHs can do it. Pitchers can't. We have the numbers there to back that up. The lack of uniformity in the league presents an objective and unequivocal disadvantage in interleague play and the World Series. The injuries to pitchers batting is not a good thing, even if it's not a decision-point sort of thing.

The point is not that pro-DH folks are trying to tell anti-DH folks that what they like is not valid. It's that what they like is not the best arrangement. Which is a fair point to make in a pursuit that actually lends itself to objective measure. The sort of objective measure that this very website was set up to explore and talk about all of those years ago.
   89. Jim Furtado Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:53 AM (#4941222)
If the DH were instituted in the NL tomorrow, there would be no discernible impact on attendance or ratings. None.


Delivering that statement in your best Ray voice doesn't make that any more true Jim.

Really? What's the basis for your opinion? (BTW, trying to take a swipe at me and Ray doesn't improve your argument.)
   90. Howie Menckel Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM (#4941227)

"I write a lot on the internet. I get a lot of comments. I have never, in my life, seen as much reflexive negative sentiment to any topic as I have seen to the DH."

I write a lot, too. I have never, in my life, piled up such strawmen, insulted those who disagree, or ignored the plausible points of that group in a public forum. But if I had, I don't think I'd have been surprised by the pushback.

And I don't even much care about the DH, though as noted I am starting to be won over to the anti-DH side (another poster insists such arrogance is not representative of his pro-DH "tribe," to be fair).

You used a, well, shitty construct.
   91. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:56 AM (#4941228)
The anti-DH people are far more strident. I'm pro DH, but don't particularly care if the NL maintains the status quo.


And, as far as I can tell, the anti-DH people don't have a problem with that POV. They have a problem with the pro-DH people who won't be happy until that preferred game is wiped off the map. That's why the anti-DHers tend to get a little more strident. They're trying to hold on to what they have.

   92. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:56 AM (#4941229)
They aren't bad arguments, Ray, they're subjective ones. You don't like a game in which pitchers hit. I don't like a game in which they don't.* There is no right or wrong. Right now, we can both see our optimal game. You'd like me not to be able to.


Except that people on the anti-DH side make specious arguments, such as "the double switch is hard." Yes, I'm sure Joe Madden is cowering in fear now that he's in the NL and has to execute double switches.
   93. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:59 AM (#4941236)
Really? What's the basis for your opinion?


I would presume that he's objecting because you made a (counterintuitive) blind assertion, rather than providing one scintilla of evidence for your claim.
   94. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 27, 2015 at 11:59 AM (#4941237)
And I don't even much care about the DH, though as noted I am starting to be won over to the anti-DH side (another poster insists such arrogance is not representative of his pro-DH "tribe," to be fair).

You're starting to be won over because you don't like the pro-DH people? That's a ridiculous statement.
   95. Lord Palmerston Posted: April 27, 2015 at 12:01 PM (#4941240)
The entire argument that pro-DH people make about pitchers hitting boils down to this: "Who wants to watch pitchers hit, they suck at it!"

We all know they suck. We love it anyway, both for strategic reasons and for the moment of sheer, unbridled joy and hilarity that comes when a pitcher gets a hit. I'd rather watch a pitcher hit than I would any DH, even Edgar Martinez.

The DH removes so much of what National League fans enjoy about baseball, and to institute it in the NL is to change the very fabric of what many of us consider to be baseball.
   96. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 27, 2015 at 12:01 PM (#4941241)
And, as far as I can tell, the anti-DH people don't have a problem with that POV. They have a problem with the pro-DH people who won't be happy until that preferred game is wiped off the map. That's why the anti-DHers tend to get a little more strident. They're trying to hold on to what they have.

But who are the anti-DHers like that apart from Craig? Suggesting that the NL should adopt the DH for reasons x, y, and z is not an inherently strident position. It's fine that anti-DH people disagree, but they often seem to view the argument as a personal affront. That's what I find strange.
   97. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 27, 2015 at 12:02 PM (#4941242)
Really? What's the basis for your opinion? (BTW, trying to take a swipe at me and Ray doesn't improve your argument.)


We have numerous people, on this site, who have claimed that they will not watch at all or watch less baseball if the DH is implemented in the National League. I'm assuming Vlad, Lisa, Bunyon and others who have said those very things aren't the only ones in the world who hold that position. Since I don't just assume they're lying, I think pissing off some percentage of your audience for nothing more than homogeneity's sake is a shitty business decision.

The lack of uniformity in the league presents an objective and unequivocal disadvantage in interleague play and the World Series.


Prove it.

But who are the anti-DHers like that apart from Craig?


Jim and Ray, just on this thread.
   98. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 12:02 PM (#4941244)
I'd rather watch a pitcher hit than I would any DH, even Edgar Martinez.


I refuse to believe that.
   99. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 27, 2015 at 12:04 PM (#4941249)
Prove it.


You require data sets showing that "we are now, after six months of baseball, required to play 3-4 games for the World Series title either (a) without one of our key players; or (b) with a key player who doesn't normally field, as per the rules of our league, to don a glove and play?" Or data which shows that an NL team getting a bonus batter in the World Series doesn't help them compared to an AL team?
   100. Hank Gillette Posted: April 27, 2015 at 12:04 PM (#4941250)
I can see myself now, in a nursing home, in 2065, shedding a single tear as Addison Russell, Jr., the last two-way player, announces his retirement, leaving every team in the majors sending nine batters out to hit and a different nine fielders out to field. Sigh.


Rather than shedding a tear, you should be celebrating a player so great that he had a 50 year major league career.
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