Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, October 22, 2020

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-22-2020

Chattanooga News, October 22, 1920:

Judge Kenesaw M. Landis, of the United States district court [in Chicago], will be offered the chairmanship of the national baseball commission at a salary of $25,000 per year, it was admitted [in Chicago] today by Alfred Austrian, attorney for both the Chicago American and Chicago National league clubs.

Austrian declared that the offer had not been made to Judge Landis, but other reports said the position had been tendered and accepted. This later rumor, however, could not be confirmed.

“I will not deny,” Austrian said, “that an offer is contemplated. Judge Landis has been mentioned frequently as an ideal man for the place.”

Elsewhere in the news 100 years ago today, the mayor of Baltimore says if the American League breaks up over the decision to hire a commissioner, his city is ready to have a big league team. Really, guys. We’re ready. Give us a team. Please. Guys? Please?

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 22, 2020 at 10:29 AM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 22, 2020 at 10:30 AM (#5984513)
I don't feel like spending the time to figure out if today's Birthday Team is likely to become the first roster with two 70+ WAR players on the right side of the infield, but it sure seems that way.

You know you have a good ballclub when Ichiro! is your third-best position player.

C/Manager: Bill Carrigan (13.2 WAR)
1B: Jimmie Foxx (93.9 WAR)
2B: Robinson Cano (68.9 WAR)
3B: Sam Bohne (7.4 WAR)
SS: Al Myers (7.8 WAR)
LF: Lou Klein (7.9 WAR)
CF: Gerald Young (6.0 WAR)
RF: Ichiro Suzuki (59.7 WAR)

SP: Wilbur Wood (50.0 WAR)
SP: Johnny Morrison (18.9 WAR)
SP: Jumbo Elliott (8.4 WAR)
SP: Kid Carsey (7.2 WAR)
SP: Oscar Jones (5.8 WAR)
RP: Darren O'Day (17.1 WAR)
RP: Hector Carrasco (9.2 WAR)
RP: Cecil Upshaw (7.4 WAR)

Owner: Phil Ball
Fun name: Chick Lathers
Not the guy who played Ed Rooney in Ferris Bueller's Day Off: Jeff Jones
   2. mathesond Posted: October 22, 2020 at 10:50 AM (#5984524)
Cano better than Ichiro!, eh? I suppose by career WAR he is...and after looking at individual season totals, Suzuki did have the highest, but then Cano had the next 3, so perhaps I have been 'overrating' one and 'underrating' the other.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 22, 2020 at 10:55 AM (#5984525)
EDIT: nevermind.
   4. salvomania Posted: October 22, 2020 at 11:46 AM (#5984556)
SP: Wilbur Wood (50.0 WAR)

Wood is 74th all-time (post-1900) in WAR for pitchers; there are 18 HoF pitchers with less career WAR, including Early Wynn, Burleigh Grimes, Jack Morris, Lefty Gomez, Bob Lemon, and Catfish Hunter. I know those guys aren't inner-circle types, but still, that's impressive company for a guy who was an extreme example of a hybrid career: one of the greatest workhorse relievers of his era who then became one of the greatest workhorse starters of his era.

He has the 12th-best single-season WAR by a reliever (5.4) for his 1968 season (he did make 2 starts in his 88 appearances), and the 8th-best single-season WAR for a starter (11.8) for his 334 innings of 1.91 ERA pitching in 1971.
   5. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 22, 2020 at 12:06 PM (#5984566)
Surprised to look up Wilbur Wood and see "born in Cambridge, MA". I thought he was a southerner.

Unfortunately by being on the White Sox from 1967 to 1978 he spent his whole career being subjected to some of the weirdest uniforms in sports history, primarily the era when they tried to look like the Phillies (powder blue with red trim on the road, red and white pinstripes at home, red hat) and finally the giant-collar Sans-a-Belt era. He even had to wear shorts.
   6. salvomania Posted: October 22, 2020 at 12:10 PM (#5984567)
RP: Cecil Upshaw (7.4 WAR)

Another member of the grisly injury club: Upshaw, 6'6" and a great prep basketball player in Louisiana, was coming off a fine 1969 in which he was the division-winning Braves' closer; he was walking with some teammates in San Diego after the second game of the 1970 season and he showed them how he used to dunk, using an awning, and nearly tore his ring finger off when it got caught. He missed the entire 1970 season, and was told he may never pitch again, but he was back for 1971 and had another fine season.

Upshaw's cousin, George Stone, was also a high-school basketball star in Louisiana, and also became a major league pitcher, and also pitched for the 1969 division-winning Braves. Upshaw ended up getting saves in four of his cousin's wins that season.
   7. salvomania Posted: October 22, 2020 at 12:16 PM (#5984570)
Unfortunately by being on the White Sox from 1967 to 1978 he spent his whole career being subjected to some of the weirdest uniforms in sports history

I still remember a photo from the pajama-era days when Wood had was kneecapped by a Ron Leflore line drive, sitting on the mound and howling in pain as he gripped the shattered joint. He was off to a great start (4-3 with a 2.24 ERA and 5 CG in 7 starts, over 56.1) but he missed the rest of the '76 season and never recovered his effectiveness after that, following a poor 1977 comeback with an even worse 1978, his final season.

EDIT: And through the magic of the internet here's that photo
   8. Perry Posted: October 22, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5984572)
Surprised to look up Wilbur Wood and see "born in Cambridge, MA". I thought he was a southerner.


Angell mentions his Boston accent in one of his pieces.
   9. salvomania Posted: October 22, 2020 at 05:04 PM (#5984607)
Nice comment by someone at the link in No. 7:

have to double check, but I think Roland Hemond talked about stopping off to get Wilbur smokes & beer on ride to hospital
   10. Itchy Row Posted: October 22, 2020 at 05:18 PM (#5984612)
In the first 51 appearances of Wilbur Wood's career, his teams (the Red Sox and Pirates) were 1-50.

The one win was a 15-inning game that Wood started against Jim Bunning. Dick Radatz pitched the last 8.2 innings in relief for the win and Terry Fox pitched 7.1 in relief and got the loss.

   11. Walt Davis Posted: October 22, 2020 at 08:25 PM (#5984649)
#2: I guess I'm surprised at your surprise. If anything I'm surprised it's as close as it is. If Ichiro had come to the US earlier then it would be easy to see how he might have been better than Cano. Ichiro never had power and didn't walk very much so, offensively, it was all BA. And a mighty nice BA it was and that can be enough to be an offensive star. But Cano's 303 BA is nearly the same as Ichiro's 311 ... he also didn't walk much but added good power. Cano never won a batting title, only had one BIG BA season (342 in 2006) but he has just consistently hit around 300, including this "year", his suspension-shortened 2018 and 298 in 2016.

Defensively it's 2B vs RF but Cano average and Ichiro outstanding but still a lot to overcome. Ichiro crushes him in baserunning measures.

Perhaps overlooked/forgotten about Ichiro -- he stopped hitting in 2011. Not his "fault", he was 37 but he lasted for about 3400 more PA, about 1/3 of his career total. Over that period he hit 268/309/342, 83 OPS+. Even with good defense and baserunning, that's Cub's Heyward territory. He was a 1 WAR player for those years. That performance brought his career Rbat down to a mere +84, 210 runs behind Cano. In short, for 2005-2019, Ichiro was an average hitter. He makes up more than half that ground on baserunning then defensively (dWAR) they're about even.

Cano looked like he was going the same way as a hitter with a terrible age 36 season but he bounced back (when healthy) this year so maybe he's got another couple of decent years left although probably in limited playing time.

In blind squirrel land ... I've long said that if anybody was going to be the next Molitor, it's Cano. Cano's under contract for 3 more years. If he repeated Molitor's age 38-40, he'd end up with 75.4 career WAR while Molitor ended with 75.7. I'm not gonna do the calculations, but Molitor ended with a career 122 OPS+ and put up a 108 OPS+ over those three years; Cano is at 126 so finishing like that would put him pretty close to 122 I'm guessing. Cano would be about 800 career PA short of Molitor but 559 of those came in Molitor's un-good age 41 season. And I'd guess Cano is unlike to also hit 300 over those years so he won't match Molitor's 531 hits, he needs "just" 376 to reach 3,000. Obviously the NL keeping the DH would help Cano's playing time.
   12. Walt Davis Posted: October 23, 2020 at 06:40 AM (#5984688)
Huh? Never thought about this one before. Ichiro (A) vs the ever-popular Player B

Player A ... 10,734 PA ... 311/355/402 ... 107 OPS+ ... 59.7 WAR ... 118 Rbase + Rdp ... 84 Rbat
Player B ... 10,917 PA ... 284/352/433 ... 104 OPS+ ... 56.3 WAR ... 125 Rbase + Rdp ... 93 Rbat

Ichiro has the much better peak, the hardward and of course the time in Japan. But a bit like Gwynn vs Raines where walks replace hits -- Ichiro 3,736 H + BB; Player B 3,772.

We can be pretty confident that if Ichiro had come over at say 21, his career would run circles around Player B. But for MLB time it's quite close and Player B was dismissed on the first ballot.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Darren
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogIs the Hall leaving out too many players?
(67 - 3:50pm, Dec 01)
Last: alilisd

NewsblogRoyals ink Michael A. Taylor to one-year contract
(7 - 3:37pm, Dec 01)
Last: RoyalFlush

NewsblogA push to recognize the statistics of Black players from baseball’s era of apartheid
(37 - 3:35pm, Dec 01)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogNBA Post-Bubble offseason thread
(1950 - 3:29pm, Dec 01)
Last: I am going to be Frank

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Winter Is Here
(196 - 3:01pm, Dec 01)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogOT - November* 2020 College Football thread
(206 - 2:43pm, Dec 01)
Last: ramifications of an exciting 57i66135

NewsblogMets not bringing back bench coach Hensley Meulens
(3 - 2:40pm, Dec 01)
Last: Adam Starblind

NewsblogYankees officially axe Staten Island affiliate; new team expected at Richmond County Ballpark
(23 - 2:17pm, Dec 01)
Last: Der-K's emotional investment is way up

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(10657 - 2:11pm, Dec 01)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogBill James: The Biggest Problem With WAR
(75 - 1:31pm, Dec 01)
Last: Kiko Sakata

NewsblogFelicity Huffman Plots Acting Return in ABC Baseball Comedy
(26 - 12:55pm, Dec 01)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogSt. Paul Saints to become Twins' top minor-league team; Class AA in Wichita
(4 - 12:02pm, Dec 01)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogReport: Phillies can't re-sign Realmuto due to massive financial losses
(32 - 8:47pm, Nov 30)
Last: Lowry Seasoning Salt

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-30-2020
(6 - 6:58pm, Nov 30)
Last: VCar

NewsblogMel Rojas Jr. Drawing Interest After MVP-Caliber KBO Season
(5 - 3:21pm, Nov 30)
Last: crict

Page rendered in 0.3347 seconds
48 querie(s) executed