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Tuesday, October 27, 2020

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-27-2020

Washington Times, October 27, 1920:

Joe Gedeon, second baseman with the St. Louis Browns, is through with baseball, following his testifying before the grand jury [in Chicago]. He admitted that he had been tipped off that the 1919 world’s series was to be fixed and that he had given his information to two St. Louis gamblers coming with them to bet on the series.

“I’m through with baseball now,” says Gedeon. “I’d never be able to stand the gaff around the circuit after this blowoff. I’m going to quit…I wasn’t the only major league player who cashed in on the ‘fixed’ series.”

“You can’t ban me. I quit.”

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 27, 2020 at 10:20 AM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: black sox, dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 27, 2020 at 10:21 AM (#5985647)
Solid Birthday Team today. I can't say I'm totally jazzed about Ralph Kiner in center, but he played more than 75 games there so it's not a huge stretch. Dougherty played 1181 MLB games in the outfield, zero of them in CF or RF.

C/Manager: Del Rice (4.7 WAR)
1B: Mike Lum (5.2 WAR)
2B: Bip Roberts (20.5 WAR)
3B: Martin Prado (28.1 WAR)
SS: U.L. Washington (9.2 WAR)
LF: Patsy Dougherty (17.8 WAR)
CF: Ralph Kiner (47.9 WAR)
RF: Shad Barry (3.5 WAR)

SP: Brad Radke (45.4 WAR)
SP: Pete Vuckovich (16.4 WAR)
SP: Lee Stange (9.2 WAR)
SP: Jon Niese (8.4 WAR)
SP: Bill Travers (7.5 WAR)
RP: 1980s/1990s Bill Swift (20.7 WAR)

Fun name: Egyptian Healy, Charlie Bold, Chick Pedroes
Not the founder of Onanism: Onan Masaoka
Pioneer: Pumpsie Green
   2. Itchy Row Posted: October 27, 2020 at 10:59 AM (#5985656)
It seems like Bip would move to center, with Ruben Tejada taking over at second. Kiner never played in right, but Patsy played there at least once.
   3. Mike Webber Posted: October 27, 2020 at 11:07 AM (#5985660)
From yesterday's thread on Kid Gleason's birthday.

8. puck Posted: October 26, 2020 at 11:39 PM (#5985603)
I did not know Kid Gleason was a player, and definitely did not know he both pitched and played a lot of games at 2nd base. 2389 innings pitched, over 1500 games at 2nd...were there other players like that in that era? (In a later era, I've heard of Babe Ruth.)

@8 - their were a few. John Mongomery Ward is a HOFer, Pitched nearly 300 games, played another 1500 in the field, mostly SS and 2b. Smokey Joe Wood played 400 games in the OF after his pitching days. Reb Russell's did that about the same time, but only played 138 games in the OF.

19th century pitcher Bob Caruthers was deployed more like Ruth as a Red Sox, playing 300 games in the OF when he wasn't pitching, but no post-pitching career as just a batter. Grasshopper Jim Whitney was also used this way. Probably quite a few 19th century pitchers actually, these were probably the 2 best of that type.

In 1923 Bob Smith came up to the majors as a SS played there 2 full years, then became a pitcher. 250 games in the infield, then 400 on the mound.

Bob Lemon was a starting 3b in the majors before becoming a SP.

Jake Bentley was a great minor league slugger and pitcher also with Jack Dunn in Baltimore, Mostly a pitcher in the majors, but 50 games at 1b.

Lefty O'Doul has a pitching story too, but not really a major league pitching story.

In the Negro Leagues, Cool Papa Bell was originally a pitcher before an arm injury moved him to the OF. Bullet Rogan and Martin DiHigo were pitchers and hitters. Double Duty Radcliffe. The Negro Leagues in the 1920's were similar to 19th century baseball, though they usually had even smaller rosters than 19th century clubs.
   4. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 27, 2020 at 12:22 PM (#5985674)
Guy Hecker led the 1884 AA in ERA and pitching wins, then led the 1886 AA in batting average as a P/1B/OF. Adonis Terry started 406 games as a pitcher and played more than 200 games as an outfielder, though he probably wasn't as good a pitcher or hitter as Hecker.

Ron Mahay got a cup of coffee as a center fielder in 1995, then pitched 14 seasons in the majors from '97-'10. There's Ankiel, obviously.

There are a bunch of guys who converted from position player to pitcher in the minors: Rafael Betancourt, Joe Nathan, Jim Bruske, Kenley Jansen.
   5. Walt Davis Posted: October 27, 2020 at 03:57 PM (#5985726)
Were any players outside the Black Sox officially banned?
   6. Ron J Posted: October 27, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5985727)
#5 I know Rube Benton was. He was also reinstated. Nominally for helping Landis with his investigation, but frankly Benton should only have been banned a year.
   7. Nasty Nate Posted: October 27, 2020 at 04:22 PM (#5985728)
Who can give the full first names of the position players in today's birthday team?
   8. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 27, 2020 at 04:38 PM (#5985735)
Were any players outside the Black Sox officially banned?
Gedeon was eventually banned; I don't know whether he actually wanted to play after 1920, but they officially banned him for life in 1921.
   9. SoSH U at work Posted: October 27, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5985736)

Who can give the full first names of the position players in today's birthday team?

I think UL is UL.

I should know Bip's real name, given his spot in the starting nine of my all-time favorite team, but sadly I do not.

   10. oscar madisox Posted: October 27, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5985739)
I'm sure it's not what you're getting at in post 7, but Lum's full name is Michael Ken-Wai Lum. I don't know why, but 7-year-old me was intrigued when I read that on the back of his baseball card.

Bip Roberts is Leon and Pumpsie Green is Elijah.
   11. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 27, 2020 at 06:18 PM (#5985756)
Re: 3

In the early days of Japanese baseball there were a bunch of two-way players. I think, in general, having (more than the occasional) two way players is a sign of a low level of competition.
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 27, 2020 at 06:35 PM (#5985760)
EDIT: Nevermind, SoSH beat me to it.

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