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Monday, October 28, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-28-2019

Grantland Rice in the New York Tribune, October 28, 1919:

Probably the hardest sport to fix is baseball. A gambler might buy off a pitcher and a shortstop. But the pitcher might be yanked out in a jiffy and the shortstop might draw only one or two chances during the game, with none of these at vital moments.

In baseball there are too many men to be reached to make it sure. And a baseball crowd isn’t easy to fool.
...
The Reds won the world series because they played much the better baseball. But it helped the Sox very little to take the Reds as soft opponents.

Elsewhere in completely unrelated news that has absolutely nothing to do with fixed baseball games or the reason the Reds won, the Seattle Star reports that White Sox first baseman Chick Gandil would like to leave Chicago this offseason and become a player-manager in Seattle. He may have had a hunch he was about to become a persona au gratin in Chicago.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 10:03 AM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: black sox, dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5895371)
Today's Birthday Team is going to need everything it can get from that pitching staff, because it's not going to get much from the offense.

C/Manager: Bob Melvin (2.5 WAR)
1B: Tommy Tucker (25.3 WAR)
2B: Tim Bogar (1.9 WAR)
3B: Ed McDonald (1.5 WAR)
SS: Doc Lavan (9.2 WAR)
LF: Hurley McNair (Negro Leagues star)
CF: Nate McLouth (6.4 WAR)
RF: Lenny Harris (1.7 WAR)

SP: Juan Guzman (24.3 WAR)
SP: Bob Veale (21.9 WAR)
SP: Piano Mover Frank Smith (21.9 WAR)
SP: Johnny Rigney (20.0 WAR)
SP: Braden Looper (8.2 WAR)
RP: Sammy Stewart (10.0 WAR)

Jumped from the Florida State League at age 19 to the 2003 Tigers at age 20, which went about as well as you'd expect: Jeremy Bonderman (4.9 WAR)
Fun names: Rudy Rufer, Hank Boney, Roxy Snipes, Liz Funk, Benny Bowcock
In the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame for building the Tokyo Dome: Makoto Hosaka
   2. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 10:19 AM (#5895381)
Today in anagram fun: Doc Lavan, who was a physician in the United States Navy, is an anagram of Naval Doc. Admittedly, the "doc" part makes it easier, but still. It's neat.

Also:
Tommy Tucker -> Rocket Tummy
Sammy Stewart -> My Swat Master
   3. Rennie's Tenet Posted: October 28, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5895387)
Pirates GM Neal Huntington "relieved of his duties." He had been interviewing manager candidates, and the new team president is coming from a hockey team. It could be a real mess unless the new GM/manager are already within the organization. If so, then a smaller mess is more likely, but guaranteed.
   4. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: October 28, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5895390)
SP: Bob Veale (21.9 WAR)

For a long time, he was the answer to the trivia question: Who is the only Pirates pitcher since 1900* to fan 200 batters in a season? He was the only one - until Oliver Perez. And Francisco Liriano. And AJ Burnett. And Garrett Cole.

*Ed Morris way back in the 1880s did it.
   5. Perry Posted: October 28, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5895398)
SP: Bob Veale (21.9 WAR)


One year the Pirates had Veale and Moose in the rotation and Lamb in the bullpen.
   6. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 11:02 AM (#5895400)
One year the Pirates had Veale and Moose in the rotation and Lamb in the bullpen.



Roger Angell wrote a small humorous bit about Pirate pitchers with one-syllable last names, and a parenthetical clause about more research being needed for the reasons for the sudden increase in the number of ungulates on the staff.
   7. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5895402)
SP: Bob Veale (21.9 WAR)

For a long time, he was the answer to the trivia question: Who is the only Pirates pitcher since 1900* to fan 200 batters in a season? He was the only one - until Oliver Perez. And Francisco Liriano. And AJ Burnett. And Garrett Cole.

Veale was a HUGE individual; Bref lists him at 6'6" (believe that) and 212 lbs (ummm--no--he was much bigger.) He could really bring it. Had over 200K's 4 times but also led the lig in BB's 4 times. He also led the league in fewest dingers/IP several times.
   8. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5895403)
Roger Angell wrote a small humorous bit about Pirate pitchers with one-syllable last names

Bob Friend, Vern Law, and Roy Face on the 60 champions. I believe Vern Law vs. Joey Jay still holds the record for fewest letters in the last names of starters in a game
   9. RJ in TO Posted: October 28, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5895404)
SP: Juan Guzman (24.3 WAR)
Juan Guzman got his chance in the majors in 1991 because Dave Stieb's back injury opened up a spot in the rotation, after they first briefly tried one or two other options. His first couple starts were pretty bad, as he was just plain wild, and then he figured things out and was excellent for the rest of the season, which featured a 10-0 record from late June to early October, before taking the loss in his final start of the season. Supposedly, the reason for his turnaround was his catcher (Pat Borders, I think) just telling him to throw for the middle of the plate and let the natural movement of his pitches take them to the corners, rather than trying to aim for the corners to begin with.

The Toronto Star loved him, as his name made for easy headlines that summer, and the following years. Just endless variations on "Juan Good Outing", "Juan Great Pitcher", "Juan Big Win" and so on. I'm assuming the Toronto Sun did the same.
   10. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 28, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5895415)
I believe Vern Law vs. Joey Jay still holds the record for fewest letters in the last names of starters in a game


Pity neither of them faced Hiroo I.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: October 28, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5895422)
Ed Ott laughs at all of these overlettered pitchers.
   12. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5895426)
Bob Friend, Vern Law, and Roy Face on the 60 champions.


One-syllable wonders, 1960-1975:

Face
Friend
Green
Geil
Gross
Law
Witt
Schantz
Foss
Sisk
Veale
Blass
Bork
Wood
Schwall
Moose
Short
Kline
Lamb
Grant
Briles
Foor
Brett
Reuss
Jones
   13. Qufini Posted: October 28, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5895433)
Bob Walk spent ten seasons with the Pirates (1984-'93)
   14. Qufini Posted: October 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5895442)
As an Orioles fan, I was furious when the Orange Birds traded for Guzman in 1998. They were an old team well out of a playoff spot at the trading deadline (11 games below .500 for that matter). They had no business trading prospects for a mid-rotation starter. It was a blinking neon sign that the Orioles ownership and management overestimated the quality of the team they had at the time. They should have been re-tooling- getting younger at the very least- if not outright re-building. The prospects they traded for Guzman didn't amount to much and they eventually flipped Guzman for BJ Ryan who was a pretty good closer for a time. So that trade, in itself, didn't kill them. However, that mis-appraisal was the beginning of a long stretch of misery as the team finished 4th or 5th in 13 of the next 14 seasons.
   15. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: October 28, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5895443)
One-syllable wonders, 1960-1975:


Bill Hands
Vida Blue
Tommy John

edit: Or all those all Pirates?
   16. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 28, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5895504)
Yes, all Buccos.
   17. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: October 28, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5895515)
OK. I imagine though that the best pitcher on the late 70's Pirates brings that average up a bit.
   18. KJOK Posted: October 28, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5895519)
Negro Leaguer/PCL/MLB player Artie Wilson might be a better choice at 2B Artie Wilson at seamheads.com
   19. The Run Fairy Posted: October 28, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5895521)
Juan Guzman got his chance in the majors in 1991 because Dave Stieb's back injury opened up a spot in the rotation, after they first briefly tried one or two other options. His first couple starts were pretty bad, as he was just plain wild, and then he figured things out and was excellent for the rest of the season, which featured a 10-0 record from late June to early October, before taking the loss in his final start of the season. Supposedly, the reason for his turnaround was his catcher (Pat Borders, I think) just telling him to throw for the middle of the plate and let the natural movement of his pitches take them to the corners, rather than trying to aim for the corners to begin with.


Guzman had that awesome slider and was great in the playoffs, but looking at his baseball-reference page, his career was something of a disappointment. His 1996 is interesting w/r/t awards voting though: he finished first in the AL in ERA (2.93), ERA+ (171), WHIP (1.124), H/9 (7.6), and K/BB (3.11), and third in WAR for pitchers (6.7), but all that amounted for zero votes for the Cy Young award.

Also from bb-ref, I knew that his 2000 contract with Tampa was legendarily bad: 2 years/12 million got them one start of 1.2 innings (worth -0.4 WAR!) before he got hurt. But I didn't know that he kept pitching after that: 20 innings in the minors in 2000, and 12 starts/70 innings in 2001.
   20. The Run Fairy Posted: October 28, 2019 at 04:21 PM (#5895528)
As an Orioles fan, I was furious when the Orange Birds traded for Guzman in 1998. They were an old team well out of a playoff spot at the trading deadline (11 games below .500 for that matter). They had no business trading prospects for a mid-rotation starter. It was a blinking neon sign that the Orioles ownership and management overestimated the quality of the team they had at the time. They should have been re-tooling- getting younger at the very least- if not outright re-building. The prospects they traded for Guzman didn't amount to much and they eventually flipped Guzman for BJ Ryan who was a pretty good closer for a time. So that trade, in itself, didn't kill them. However, that mis-appraisal was the beginning of a long stretch of misery as the team finished 4th or 5th in 13 of the next 14 seasons.


I see your larger point, but on the surface that wasn't that bad of a trade: they got Guzman for Nerio Rodriguez and Shannon Carter. Rodriguez was a 27 year old reliever/swingman with a K/9 below 6, and Carter was a 4th round draft pick outfielder who was hitting .247/.289/.280 (with 14 sb) in rookie ball. Outside of a four game cup of coffee in AAA, he never even got past A ball.
   21. RJ in TO Posted: October 28, 2019 at 04:31 PM (#5895534)
Guzman had that awesome slider and was great in the playoffs, but looking at his baseball-reference page, his career was something of a disappointment. His 1996 is interesting w/r/t awards voting though: he finished first in the AL in ERA (2.93), ERA+ (171), WHIP (1.124), H/9 (7.6), and K/BB (3.11), and third in WAR for pitchers (6.7), but all that amounted for zero votes for the Cy Young award.
For that season, he was also paid less than 1995, as he had accepted something close to the maximum possible cut in arbitration - his salary dropped from $2.8 million to $2.24 million.
   22. mathesond Posted: October 28, 2019 at 06:56 PM (#5895553)
I moved back to Toronto in mid-1998, and specifically bought a ticket to this game, as I was certain it would be Guzman's last in a Jay's uniform. I didn't realize it would also be one of Randy Myers' last games as a Jay. It was also the first 1-0 game I had ever seen in person.
   23. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: October 28, 2019 at 08:16 PM (#5895565)
Today in anagram fun: Doc Lavan, who was a physician in the United States Navy, is an anagram of Naval Doc. Admittedly, the "doc" part makes it easier, but still. It's neat


And backwards it's Naval Cod
   24. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 29, 2019 at 10:18 AM (#5895641)
I knew Nate McLouth was overrated by fans for being a good looking guy who happened to be better than most of the rest of the 2006 Pirates, but I didn't know he had fewer career WAR than Braden Looper.
   25. DCA Posted: October 29, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5895645)
To be fair, he was actually pretty good with the Pirates. Through 2009 (his age 27 season, he was traded to the Braves midyear), he had 7.4 WAR (1.3 WAA) and that includes getting a -23 on defense the same year he won a gold glove (which is to say, he probably didn't deserve the GG but was probably better than -23).

From 2010 on, he was below replacement level.

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