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Thursday, October 07, 2021

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-7-2021

Lakeland Evening Telegram, October 7, 1921:

GIANTS BREAK HOODOO, TAKING THIRD

The Giants slugged their way to victory in the seventh when they bunched eight hits for eight runs. The Yanks used three pitchers in an attempt to stem the tide but the Giants were hitting their pace today and could not be stopped. Up until the seventh inning the game was evenly fought by both teams, the score being tied 4 to 4 at the end of the sixth.

After being shut out in the first two games of the series, the Giants dropped 13 on the Yankees in Game Three.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:00 AM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, world series

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 08:02 AM (#6044395)
A pretty solid Birthday Team today. Mookie isn't really a second baseman but can play there, Hatton never started a game at shortstop but made some appearances there, and Cardenal obviously isn't a 20 WAR guy as a first baseman. But there are some parts to work with here.

C: Fleet Walker (-0.1 WAR)
1B: Jose Cardenal (20.7 WAR)
2B: Mookie Betts (50.0 WAR)
3B: Evan Longoria (57.4 WAR)
SS: Grady Hatton (18.6 WAR)
LF: Frank Baumholtz (8.1 WAR)
CF: Rudy Law (9.3 WAR)
RF: Chuck Klein (46.6 WAR)

SP: Brickyard Kennedy (34.9 WAR)
SP: Bill Walker (14.5 WAR)
SP: Alex Cobb (14.4 WAR)
SP: Kris Medlen (8.4 WAR)
SP: Butch Henry (8.3 WAR)
RP: Bud Daley (6.5 WAR)

Manager: Charlie Fox
Amateur catcher in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame, maybe better than Walker?: Zensuke Shimada
Guy who very graciously and in good humor listened to me and some friends heckle him for three hours in September 1995: Milt Cuyler
Right fielder for the '89 Canton-Akron Indians, starting pitcher for the '90 Canton-Akron Indians: Jim Bruske
Fun names: Punch Knoll, Moxie Hengel
   2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 09:23 AM (#6044415)
SP: Brickyard Kennedy (34.9 WAR)

HoF nickname.
   3. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 07, 2021 at 09:53 AM (#6044423)
Mookie started five games at second base as recently as this year, so the Dodgers must think he's capable out there. This is one of the most baffling things to me about modern baseball: When you have a guy who is by all accounts an excellent defensive outfielder, why wouldn't you just let him go do that? Why would you slot him in at second base and put a dud like Billy McKinney in right field? What's the point?

It's hard to argue with the results, since the Dodgers clearly know what they're doing. But I don't see the advantage.
   4. JustDan Posted: October 07, 2021 at 10:12 AM (#6044430)
From what I recall about Mookie playing 2nd was that he was recovering from an injury and they were trying to protect him somewhat. Even though 2nd seems a worse place than rightfield to protect someone. This was before the Trea Turner trade.

Also Mookie started as an infielder in the minors. I don't know what made the Sox decide to move him to the outfield.
   5. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 11:16 AM (#6044450)
RF: Chuck Klein (46.6 WAR)

in his 7 years at the Baker Bowl he had 143 homers and 507 RBIs at home and 62 & 278 on the road
   6. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 07, 2021 at 11:27 AM (#6044453)
I don't know what made the Sox decide to move him to the outfield.
Dustin Pedroia was still healthy when Betts broke in.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:10 PM (#6044584)
Also (if I remember right), last year Mookie made some comments about how he'd play some 2B if that would help the team be more flexible and he did make one start there. I made a comment along the same lines (why???) but maybe it's just somtehing he wants or thinks really helps the team. But I still agree it seems very silly -- it's a team with Taylor, Lux, Muncy, McKinstry (and of course now Turner) all capable of playing 2B, how often do you need your HoF RF to fill the role of #5 2B?
   8. Walt Davis Posted: October 07, 2021 at 06:42 PM (#6044598)
Dustin Pedroia was still healthy when Betts broke in.

And he got chased out of CF by Bradley. Which didn't seem like a promising move for Mookie's career length but he added power and started hitting above-average for a RF anyway.
   9. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 07, 2021 at 07:14 PM (#6044605)
But I still agree it seems very silly -- it's a team with Taylor, Lux, Muncy, McKinstry (and of course now Turner) all capable of playing 2B, how often do you need your HoF RF to fill the role of #5 2B?


I was a bit taken aback when I saw Willie Mays' 1964 Strat-O-Matic card and discovered that he had filled in at both shortstop and third base (only one game at each, but)...
   10. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 07, 2021 at 09:42 PM (#6044672)
I was a bit taken aback when I saw Willie Mays' 1964 Strat-O-Matic card and discovered that he had filled in at both shortstop and third base (only one game at each, but

his game at SS was in a 23 inning second game of a doubleheader the Giants had run out of players
   11. Ron J Posted: October 07, 2021 at 10:10 PM (#6044680)
#9 While the real world explanation makes a ton of sense, the Giants did spend at least a decade and a half doing weird things with infielders.
   12. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 07, 2021 at 11:10 PM (#6044696)
If Cuyler could've hit at all, he would've had a long major league career. 4.1 WAR as a 22-year-old rookie, 1.3 WAR afterwards.

I'd put Irv Hall at shortstop, Hatton at second, Betts in right, Klein in left, and Baumholtz (not a good outfielder) on the bench. Mike Foltynewicz is the 5th starter if Fox can fix him.

The bullpen is interesting: 15 pitchers with > 200 innings, all with at least 27 starts, none with more than 10 saves. It's a whole pitching staff of swingmen.
   13. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 07, 2021 at 11:29 PM (#6044701)
Another tidbit: during Hall of Merit evaluations, I found out Sammy Sosa's batting statistics from 1993-2005 are a dead ringer for Chuck Klein's career when you adjust for the shape of offense in their respective eras. Both are a 137 OPS+. Sosa led the NL three times in total bases in his five-year peak (1998-2002); Klein four times in his (1929-33).

Of course, Sosa is a much stronger candidate (league quality, integration, meh defense vs. dreadful defense, slight Wrigley effect vs. massive Baker Bowl effect, at least some pre-1993 value) but it's a fun resemblance.
   14. Ron J Posted: October 08, 2021 at 08:05 AM (#6044713)
#13 I'm pretty sure there's a massive defensive park illusion for Klein's defensive numbers. Not sure how it could be otherwise with no hit location data and such a weird park as the Baker Bowl. A quick and dirty look suggests (just comparing his brief time in Chicago to his time in Philly) suggests at least 5 runs a year. And "damned if I can really tell" is closer to the truth.
   15. Mefisto Posted: October 08, 2021 at 08:40 AM (#6044716)
@10: Gaylord Perry threw 10 shutout innings in relief in that game.
   16. JustDan Posted: October 08, 2021 at 10:03 AM (#6044735)
Looking up Klein, I found this game which was the 2nd game of a DH and the last game of the year. Going into that day, Klein and Ott were tied for the HR lead and Klein hit one in the first game to take the lead. Ott was walked 5 times in the 2nd game and intentionally with the bases loaded in the 9th inning where the Phillies were losing by 8 runs.

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