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Thursday, November 19, 2020

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-19-2020

Ogden Standard-Examiner, November 19, 1920:

Robert R. Evans, who claims to have been a major league baseball player a few years ago, was given a two-year prison term in the federal court Thursday for bigamy. He admitted having married three women.

Evans declared his career embraced more than ten years’ service as a pitcher. He named the Washington and Detroit American league clubs and the Brooklyn National club as the major league teams he played with. He is 48 years old and his home is in Emporia, Kan.

Most similar players: Al Martin, Bill Cunningham.

I was actually surprised to find that he wasn’t lying about being a ballplayer. Robert Roy Evans, who grew up in Emporia, pitched for Washington and Brooklyn in a 10+ year career as a pro pitcher. These may have been the only things he ever told the truth about; his SABR bio paints a picture of a guy who was a criminal and pitched on the side instead of a pitcher who occasionally broke the law.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: November 19, 2020 at 11:00 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: November 19, 2020 at 11:03 AM (#5989896)
A pretty good collection of position players on today's Birthday Team. It's just unfortunate they can't trade some of that catching depth for a starting pitcher.

C: Roy Campanella (35.6 WAR)
1B: Ryan Howard (14.7 WAR)
2B: Gary DiSarcina (11.2 WAR)
3B: Stu Martin 6.9 WAR)
SS: Everett Scott (16.2 WAR)
LF: Joey Gallo (9.4 WAR)
CF: Bobby Tolan (10.1 WAR)
RF: Michael Saunders (6.0 WAR)

SP: Roosevelt Davis (Negro Leagues pitcher)
SP: Justin Duchscherer (9.9 WAR)
SP: Denny Driscoll (3.4 WAR)
SP: Jonathan Sanchez (2.4 WAR)
SP: Framber Valdez (1.7 WAR)
RP: Clay Condrey (1.6 WAR)

Manager: The other Joe Morgan
Backup catcher: Bob Boone (27.4 WAR)
Umpire: Mike Winters
   2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 19, 2020 at 11:32 AM (#5989905)
1B: Ryan Howard (14.7 WAR)

this is the 2nd lowest lifetime WAR for any position player who won an MVP--Zoilo Versalles ended up with 12.6
   3. Mefisto Posted: November 19, 2020 at 12:06 PM (#5989916)
Versalles had a legitmately excellent season in 1965: 5.3 oWAR playing SS and led the AL with 7.2 overall.
   4. Itchy Row Posted: November 19, 2020 at 12:18 PM (#5989923)
Jonathan Sanchez has the most wins on today's team. He'd be eighth on yesterday's team and sixth on tomorrow's team.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2020 at 12:46 PM (#5989936)
Jonathan Sanchez has the most wins on today's team.

Not counting Davis.
   6. salvomania Posted: November 19, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5989941)
CF: Bobby Tolan (10.1 WAR)

I wonder how many other guys have put up three 5-WAR seasons (well, 4.9 in the third season) and ended up with a career WAR of 10...

I can't imagine many.

Maybe I'll look it up.

EDIT: Just tried to look it up on Statheads (nee Baseball Reference Play Index) and couldn't figure out how to set the parameters to get the results I wanted (3+ career 5-WAR seasons; career WAR<10).
   7. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 19, 2020 at 01:22 PM (#5989948)
Clay Condrey once won 7 games in a row. (Late 2006 through early 2008)
   8. BDC Posted: November 19, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5989969)
couldn't figure out how to set the parameters to get the results I wanted (3+ career 5-WAR seasons; career WAR<10)

I don't think you can do that sort of parlay on Stathead. So it would be a matter of looking through small slices of results.

I looked at a very small slice and saw Alex Johnson, who had three 3-WAR seasons in a 13-year career and a career total of 10.0. Almost as hard to do. And Johnson and Tolan were teammates on the 1969 Reds, each having one of his better seasons that year.
   9. Itchy Row Posted: November 19, 2020 at 03:11 PM (#5989985)
Chris Davis's three best years totaled 15.1 WAR (7.1, 4.9, and 3.1), and he's at 11.0 for his career now. He only played in 16 games this year and was worth negative 1.0. He'll be getting paid for two more years.
   10. AndrewJ Posted: November 19, 2020 at 04:54 PM (#5990010)
1B: Ryan Howard (14.7 WAR)


Ryan's got a Rookie of the Year, an MVP and a World Series ring... and he's tied for 72nd all-time in WAR (pitchers and position players) in Phillies history. And the Phillies don't have much of a history.
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2020 at 05:01 PM (#5990014)
And the Phillies don't have much of a history.

They have a very long history......of being terrible with short interludes of competitiveness every couple of decades.
   12. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 19, 2020 at 05:09 PM (#5990016)
The Dodgers are moving their high-A minor league team to Spokane. This is notable because there's no full season league (apart from AAA) in that part of the country... raising questions about what might happen to the # of teams in the Midwest/Mid-Atlantic (does not yet exist, but will?) leagues.
   13. Itchy Row Posted: November 19, 2020 at 05:12 PM (#5990017)
Howard is tied with Ben Sanders, who pitched 75 games for the Philadelphia Quakers during the first Cleveland administration and the second Harrison administration.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 19, 2020 at 05:17 PM (#5990020)
I wonder if Howard is the career $/WAR leader. $190M for 15 WAR.

We obviously need a PT floor, otherwise some guy who got a $3M bonus and never played in MLB wins.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: November 19, 2020 at 05:21 PM (#5990021)
We obviously need a PT floor, otherwise some guy who got a $3M bonus and never played in MLB wins.


Jon Singleton still got paid more and produced less than that guy.
   16. Itchy Row Posted: November 19, 2020 at 05:39 PM (#5990026)
If he'd been paid his full 2020 salary, Chris Davis would have made $188M by the end of his contract. Davis didn't have the Subway money or whatever other deals Athlead got for him.
   17. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2020 at 06:45 PM (#5990039)
Apparently Dreifort ended up at $63 M for 6 WAR career, producing very little after signing his big contract. If we adjust for his contract ending back in 2007 (I think) that's probably as bad as Howard's. But somebody like Rusney Castillo likely wins this -- $72 M for 1.6 WAR per b-r. That's not a "prospect playing time" issue, that's a team thinking they were signing a good ML player for several years issue. Not sure what you do with Kei Igawa $20 for -0.5 or Yasmany Tomas $68.5 for -2.5. I suppose "ideally" you'd figure out how many WAR they were paid for at real-time rates then calculate the difference although that may bias things towards the really big contracts.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2020 at 06:58 PM (#5990042)
this is the 2nd lowest lifetime WAR for any position player who won an MVP--Zoilo Versalles ended up with 12.6

I'd guess Campy holds the record for lowest WAR among 3-time winners, might be lowest for 2+ winners, maybe lowest quartile for 1+ winners. Of course C credit and NeL credit would improve his standing substantially.

If he'd been paid his full 2020 salary, Chris Davis would have made $188M by the end of his contract.

Snapper put it in career terms though. Davis sits at 11 WAR which as the Tolan comment kinda notes is impressive in its way given he's given back 6 WAR in the last 3 years. Davis & Howard have ended up pretty similar players although the cliff Davis fell off was right next to the Marianus Trench.

On Tolan ... if you could figure out how to turn bad Tolan into good Tolan, you'd make a mint. And that could have been the Cards' anti-Brock trade -- Tolan and Wayne Granger for a declining Pinson only to watch Tolan turn into a 5-WAR player and Granger be a relief stud. But Granger went the way of most relief studs and Tolan Tolanned.
   19. The Honorable Ardo Posted: November 19, 2020 at 07:42 PM (#5990052)
The life of Roy Evans is nuts. My favorite part was how John McGraw's first action as manager of the New York Giants was to release him.
   20. salvomania Posted: November 19, 2020 at 09:20 PM (#5990065)
Tolan Tolanned.

The gruesome Achilles injury is what did him in, forced him to miss the entire '71 season. He came back with a good '72, but then fell off a cliff.
   21. stevegamer Posted: November 19, 2020 at 10:13 PM (#5990069)
Bobby Tolan was one of my favorite Phillies growing up, and a guy where everybody in the neighborhood would at least do that stance sometimes playing wiffle ball, and even baseball.

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