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Monday, November 04, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-4-2019

Grand Forks Herald, November 4, 1919:

[Charlie Comiskey] is in favor abolishing the freak deliver in spite of the fact one of his slabmen is credited with the perfection of the shine ball. But he admits he knows of no effective way to prevent freak pitching unless possibly the abolition of all gloves, except for the catcher, might help some. That he considers too radical, because it would compel the present generation of ballplayers to learn to field all over again.
...
Out of the scores of suggestions that have been received from baseball fans nothing practical has resulted because all the good ideas are based on the belief that the umpires can tell when a freak delivery is pitched.

Elsewhere in the news, Hod Eller says he’s not worried about the talk of banning “freak” pitches because he has a secret pitch he’s not willing to talk about, and a judge denied a petition for divorce from Minnie Ebbets because she waited too long to file after she learned Charles had moved in with another woman.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: November 04, 2019 at 10:30 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, spitball

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: November 04, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5898471)
Some good top-end talent on today's Birthday Team, but the pitching staff isn't very good. I've looked into it and I can't find any evidence that Spook Jacobs's nickname is a racial slur, but none of the explanations ("We called him that because he hit a lot of bloop singles") I've seen make any damn sense.

Anyway, it's a fun name unless it's a slur. Then it would be gross and awful.

C: Carl Sawatski (4.2 WAR)
1B: Eric Karros (10.4 WAR)
2B: Carlos Baerga (19.6 WAR)
3B/SP: Bobby Wallace (76.3 WAR)
SS: Dick Groat (36.7 WAR)
LF: Ryan Thompson (3.5 WAR)
CF: Tommy Leach (47.0 WAR)
RF: Tito Francona (14.0 WAR)

SP: Dick Selma (9.9 WAR)
SP: Joe Beggs (9.5 WAR)
SP: Travis Blackley (-0.1 WAR)
SP: Osvaldo Fernandez (-0.3 WAR)
RP: Doug Corbett (9.3 WAR)

Umpire: Dolly Stark
Fun names: Erick Threets, Joe Savery, Melvin Bunch, Skeeter Webb
Fun name, but only if his nickname wasn't intended as a racial slur: Spook Jacobs
Writer: Furman Bisher
Wrote the Seattle Pilots' theme song: Rod Belcher
   2. PreservedFish Posted: November 04, 2019 at 10:43 AM (#5898474)
Spook's real name was Forrest Vandergrift.
   3. Paul d mobile Posted: November 04, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5898482)
The Jays have acquired Chase Anderson from the Brewers. Return to the Brewers unknown.
   4. stanmvp48 Posted: November 04, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5898488)
Savery went to the same high school and college as Anthony Rendon. He was a fairly good hitter in college as I recall
   5. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5898492)
He was a fairly good hitter in college as I recall

But without a sweet swing.
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5898505)
TRIVIA - -What batter and pitcher have faced each other the most times (as measured by plate appearances, including postseason) among active players? The pitcher has won the battle, the hitter is .184/.277/.327.

Just to warn you, I am only 97% sure I know the answer.
   7. PreservedFish Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5898512)
How about Robinson Cano vs David Price?
   8. PreservedFish Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5898513)
Or Ian Kinsler vs Felix Hernandez?
   9. Nasty Nate Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5898517)
Very good answers but incorrect.

And it appears I did not actually know the answer - as I have found a more frequent matchup than the one I had thought was the highest.
   10. Qufini Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5898518)
Verlander vs Gordon?
   11. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5898520)
Anderson's return was Chad Spanberger, I think.
   12. Nasty Nate Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5898521)
10. Qufini Posted: November 04, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5898518)
Verlander vs Gordon?
That's what I originally thought was the answer. But I found now TWO more sets that have more than Gordon/Verlander; they are tied with 120 plate appearances.

I really should have ensured that I knew the answer before doing this.
   13. The Mighty Quintana Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5898522)
CC and Miguel Cabrera?
   14. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5898523)
I was going to say CC and Pedroia (though I'm not sure either counts as active).

   15. JustDan Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5898525)
Miggy has faced Shields the most with 79 PA, well short of the 120 PA that the leaders have.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:12 PM (#5898526)
Joey Votto and Adam Wainwright?
   17. Nasty Nate Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5898527)
I was going to say CC and Pedroia (though I'm not sure either counts as active).
Nope. CC is indeed Pedroia's #1, but Pedroia is down in 9th on CC's list.

CC is not part of the answers because no batter shared the same divisions over the same time periods. Although Adam Jones faced him 108 times.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5898529)
Ryan Braun vs Adam Wainwright?
   19. PreservedFish Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5898530)
Or Brandon Phillips vs Wainwright?
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5898531)
Phillips wasn't active in 2019.
   21. Qufini Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5898533)
Kershaw and Posey?
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: November 04, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5898535)
Kershaw and Posey?
Yes! That's one of them.
   23. Gary Truth Serum Posted: November 04, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5898547)
Anderson's return was Chad Spanberger, I think.

I assume this is a different person than Cory Spangenberg, only because Spangenberg was last seen as Anderson's teammate with the Milwaukee Brewers.
   24. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 04, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5898549)
modern era HOF candidates announced: Dwight Evans, Garvey, Tommy John, Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, Whitaker. Vote is December 8th
   25. Qufini Posted: November 04, 2019 at 02:58 PM (#5898550)
So who else spent a long time in the AL West? Goldschmidt? Arenado?
   26. JJ1986 Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:00 PM (#5898552)
modern era HOF candidates announced: Dwight Evans, Garvey, Tommy John, Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, Whitaker. Vote is December 8th
I guess Keith Hernandez asked them to help him move.
   27. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5898557)
Felix Hernandez and.... Elvis Andrus!
   28. stevegamer Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:32 PM (#5898560)
modern era HOF candidates announced: Dwight Evans, Garvey, Tommy John, Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, Whitaker. Vote is December 8th

I guess Keith Hernandez asked them to help him move.


Some of those guys really aren't going to be much help.
   29. Nasty Nate Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5898562)
Felix Hernandez and.... Elvis Andrus!
Yes! All 4 involved in the pairings have only played for one team. The postseason didn't end up coming into play.
   30. Rally Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5898566)
modern era HOF candidates announced: Dwight Evans, Garvey, Tommy John, Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons, Whitaker. Vote is December 8th


Going by memory, this is the first shot Evans and Whitaker are getting for the VC. Good luck to them. Is this the first time for Munson too?

Garvey on the other hand, seems to be there just about every other year and obviously hasn't made it yet. Seems like the HOF is insisting on a "vote until you get it right" strategy. Resist!

But still no Bobby Grich.
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5898567)
I'm guessing Whitaker and Simmons/Miller go in.


I suppose Lou's election could help Bobby, but I'm afraid nothing will help Grich.

   32. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 04, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5898572)
Savery went to the same high school and college as Anthony Rendon. He was a fairly good hitter in college as I recall


In 2011 at age 25, he played 54 games at 1B/LF in high A and swatted .307/.368/.410/.778.
Then he went back to pitching and was his usual meh self before giving it up at 28. 20 walks/32 Ks in 51.2 career MLB inning pretty much tells the story.
   33. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: November 04, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5898573)
Given that they elect people randomly (I think they use names in a hat), it's hard to know what the VC is going to do with that lot. If I squint hard enough, I can see them electing anyone from that set except for Evans and Miller.
   34. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2019 at 05:03 PM (#5898574)
Given that they elect people randomly (I think they use names in a hat), it's hard to know what the VC is going to do with that lot. If I squint hard enough, I can see them electing anyone from that set except for Evans and Miller.


That isn't true. The last time this group met, they elected the two guys that were expected to go in - Morris and Trammell. Given the outcry over Whitaker's omission from the ballot then, I expect him to go in this time. Simmons and Miller have both been close, and without anyone else obvious ahead of him, one or both are likely to go in with Lou. Miller is a tricky case because you don't know how many hardcore anti-Marv people are on the committee, but he did come within one vote of election a time or two, so he's got plenty of support.

Baines was a surprise last time, but only because most people didn't think they'd be so hell-bent on electing anyone from that group other than Lee Smith. But if you were to choose which of the other 9 was most likely to get support from that voting body (and what they seem to value), then Baines was probably the guy.
   35. RJ in TO Posted: November 04, 2019 at 05:43 PM (#5898584)
Garvey on the other hand, seems to be there just about every other year and obviously hasn't made it yet. Seems like the HOF is insisting on a "vote until you get it right" strategy. Resist!


Garvey was an MVP, 10 time All Star, and 4 time Gold Glover, and major star for a high profile team, who hit 0.300 and got 200 hits every season at a time where people thought things like that were really important. We're a lot more aware now about how this stuff by itself doesn't mean as much as they thought it did, but he's still exactly the sort of player we should expect to repeatedly show up on these ballots as a nominee.
   36. SoSH U at work Posted: November 04, 2019 at 06:21 PM (#5898595)
Garvey was an MVP, 10 time All Star, and 4 time Gold Glover, and major star for a high profile team, who hit 0.300 and got 200 hits every season at a time where people thought things like that were really important. We're a lot more aware now about how this stuff by itself doesn't mean as much as they thought it did, but he's still exactly the sort of player we should expect to repeatedly show up on these ballots as a nominee.


He also spent 15 years on the ballot, topping out at 42.6 percent of the vote (or far more support than Tram ever received). That he's never made any progress with this committee shows a) that there's been some gains by advanced metrics, even with this group and b) how far his reputation has fallen post-retirement. He really rode that All-American boy kind of rep, and when it turned out that he fathered boys all over America, he lost a lot of the old Garvey shine. I think there is far more of Column b at work.



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