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Tuesday, December 10, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-10-2019

Pittsburgh Gazette Times, December 10, 1919:

Honus Wagner last night admitted that he had received an offer to manager the new Akron (O.) club in the International League.

“I do not know whether to accept,” he added.
...
Further than to admit that he had been offered the place as chief chauffeur of the Tire City band, and had not made up his mind, Honus was uncommunicative.

Honus was a wealthy guy who had a comfortable life in his hometown and had a newborn daughter. He wasn’t going to Akron. He was never going to Akron. He didn’t go to Akron.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 10, 2019 at 11:07 AM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 10, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5907407)
It's probably not a great sign that the top player in terms of WAR on today's Birthday Team was a starting pitcher who was worse than league-average at pitching. Solid bullpen though.

C: Jim Stephens (5.7 WAR)
1B: Art Griggs (4.9 WAR)
2B: Pedro Florimon (2.5 WAR)
3B: Jimmy Johnston (16.7 WAR)
SS: Ike Caveney (4.3 WAR)
LF: Luis Polonia (9.0 WAR)
CF: Frank Shugart (5.1 WAR)
RF: Wil Myers (9.7 WAR)

SP: Steve Renko (23.6 WAR)
SP: Joe Mays (9.4 WAR)
SP: Carlos Rodon (6.6 WAR)
SP: Jim Baskette (3.0 WAR)
SP: Bob Priddy (1.2 WAR)
RP: Paul Assenmacher (13.0 WAR)
RP: Dan Wheeler (7.8 WAR)
RP: Mel Rojas (6.3 WAR)
RP: Doug Henry (2.4 WAR)

Manager: Doc Edwards
Broadcater: Jaime Jarrin
Not that one: Jocko Conlon
Fun names: Pretzel Pezzullo, Spoke Emery, Bots Nekola, Jerry Upp
   2. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5907422)
a starting pitcher who was worse than league-average at pitching

Pretty good overall athlete, though---starting QB at Kansas (with a run-heavy offense featuring some guy named Sayers) and was drafted by the Raiders, and also averaged 10ppg and 6rpg as a forward for the Jayhawks in 1963-64. Last three-letter varsity athlete at KU.

Renko was drafted by the Mets but never played for them--he was involved in the 1969 trade that brought them Donn Clendenon from the Expos, and had his most success as a member of the early Expos' rotations, twice winning 15 games, with his best season in 1973, going 15-11 with a 2.81 era (7th in NL) and 4.3 pitching WAR (9th).

Renko still ranks 10th all-time in career wins for the Expos/Nationals, and 5th among Expos.

Any ideas who the other four Expos and five Nationals pitchers are in that franchise Top 10 in wins?
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5907427)
Honus Wagner last night admitted that he had received an offer to manager the new Akron (O.) club in the International League.
Huh. "Managering" goes back a lot longer than I thought. I wonder if they wanted him specifically for his perceived ability to waste everyone's time futzing around with relievers.
   4. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5907434)
Expos/Nationals career Top 10 in wins

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
8.
10. Steve Renko (68)
   5. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5907438)
I'll go for the "Really?" and guess Woody Fryman.
   6. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5907440)
Steve Rogers definitely. Dennis Martinez?

Jordan Zimmermann, Max Scherzer, and Strasburg too I'd guess.
   7. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:22 PM (#5907444)
I'm going to guess Javier Vazquez, as I do so often for trivia questions about recent pitchers.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5907446)
Livan Hernandez. And he shall be a good man.
   9. Itchy Row Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5907447)
Bryn Smith won about ten games every year without being interesting other than his first name. Did he have enough of those years to make the list?
   10. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5907450)
1. Steve Rogers (158)
2. Stephen Strasburg (112)
3. Dennis Martinez (100)
4.
5. Bryn Smith (81)
6. Max Scherxer (79)
7.
8. Livan Hernandez (70)
8. Jordan Zimmermann (70)
10. Steve Renko (68)

One Expo and one National left. (Fryman won 51 with the Expos; Vazquez ties for 11th with 64.)
   11. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5907451)
Bryn Smith won about ten games every year

Six consecutive double-digit-win seasons, five of them either 10 or 12.
   12. Itchy Row Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5907452)
Charlie Lea and Gio Gonzalez?
   13. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5907453)
The Expo holds held a major-league rookie strikeout record.
   14. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5907454)
1. Steve Rogers (158)
2. Stephen Strasburg (112)
3. Dennis Martinez (100)
4. Gio Gonzalez (86)
5. Bryn Smith (81)
6. Max Scherxer (79)
7.
8. Livan Hernandez (70)
8. Jordan Zimmermann (70)
10. Steve Renko (68)

Yes on Gio, Lea won 55 as an Expo.
   15. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5907457)
Ken Hill? Was he around Montreal long enough to win 70 games?
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5907458)
Bill Gullickson.
   17. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5907459)
Scott Sanderson?
   18. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5907460)
Bill Gullickson.

Yes on Gullickson, who until Kerry Wood came along held the rookie record for strikeouts in a game, with 18.

1. Steve Rogers (158)
2. Stephen Strasburg (112)
3. Dennis Martinez (100)
4. Gio Gonzalez (86)
5. Bryn Smith (81)
6. Max Scherxer (79)
7. Bill Gullickson (72)
8. Livan Hernandez (70)
8. Jordan Zimmermann (70)
10. Steve Renko (68)

Scott Sanderson won 56 as an Expo. Other notables include Tanner Roark (64), Jeff Fassero (58), and Pedro Martinez (55).

Ken Hill won 41 in his three seasons as an Expo, including a league-leading 16 in the strike year of 1994.
   19. Qufini Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5907461)
Jeff Fassero?

Edit: too late, and not right anyway
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5907463)
With the new deal, Strasburg's a pretty good bet to become the franchise's all-time wins leader, and a decent bet to become the best guy to play his entire career with the organization. I'd say that should please our resident Nats fans, but I'm sure Bote would just say Steve who?

   21. Itchy Row Posted: December 10, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5907464)
If Ryan Zimmerman signs with another team, Strasburg will become the leader in WAR among players who spent their entire career in the Expos/Nats organization. Steve Rogers only played for the Expos in the majors, but he spent some time in the Angels and White Sox organizations at the end of his career.

If Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Rendon had all signed with other teams this offseason, the single-organization WAR leader would have been Juan Soto.
   22. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: December 10, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5907590)
Honus was a wealthy guy who had a comfortable life in his hometown and had a newborn daughter. He wasn’t going to Akron. He was never going to Akron. He didn’t go to Akron.


The 1920 Akron Buckeyes, who played in the International League, actually had some good players, including a Hall of Famer...albeit in a different sport.

Actually, Akron had a championship team in 1920...albeit in a different sport.
   23. bbmck Posted: December 10, 2019 at 05:30 PM (#5907596)
Lowest career pitching WAR among players with at least 5 seasons of 10+ wins in the expansion era:

1.2 - Mike LaCoss
2.9 - Josh Fogg
3.2 - Chuck Dobson
4.4 - Jason Marquis
4.7 - Kyle Kendrick

5.6 - Bob Walk
6.2 - Mark Gardner
6.4 - Ross Grimsley
6.5 - Edinson Volquez
7.0 - John Curtis
7.0 - Steve Blass

Blass is probably more famous than the other 10 combined. 72nd Bryn Smith 16.5, if Edwin Jackson 8.1 gets another job or two he could become the leader.
   24. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 10, 2019 at 05:46 PM (#5907598)
Josh Fogg seasons as a starter

12-12
10-9
11-10
6-11
11-9
10-9

The first 5 were with terrible teams. Then the World Series Rockies.

Rotation of the World Series Rockies:
4.22, 17-9
4.12, 8-7
4.94, 10-9
4.81, 5-7
4.28, 4-4
4.42, 5-4

Record of Jeff Francis: 17-9
Record of other starters: 38-38
Record of relievers: 35-26
   25. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: December 10, 2019 at 05:57 PM (#5907600)
phi to sign didi g
angels trade will wilson (mid 1st rounder this year) to sf for cash and a ptbnl ... with sf also taking on cozart's last year
giants also sign gausman for 1/9, w/ an extra mil in possible bonuses
----
i don't know who the pbtnl is, obv, but this sounds like an acknowledgement that coz is toast.
   26. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: December 10, 2019 at 06:20 PM (#5907609)
didi supposedly got 14m.

the (highly interesting, if you ask me) cozart deal reminds me of a question i've wanted to ask craig edwards of fangraphs, but haven't.

this article values a 15th overall pick at 18.4m.
whereas this one values a prospect valued on the fg scale as a 45 (as wilson is and isn't that bad of an outcome for the pick) at 6m.
i thought wilson was a slight overdraft, as might have that crew, but not so much to cause this gap in valuation (which I think is hardly unusual between assets here). so if anyone has thoughts here, i'm listening...
   27. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 10, 2019 at 07:27 PM (#5907614)
He wasn’t going to Akron. He was never going to Akron. He didn’t go to Akron.


He did, though, play for the Carnegie Elks till he was 50.
   28. salvomania Posted: December 10, 2019 at 09:27 PM (#5907634)
7.0 - Steve Blass

Couldn't believe how low this was for Blass; FanGraphs has him at 13.4, which seems more in line with my gut feeling.
   29. Sunday silence Posted: December 12, 2019 at 09:48 PM (#5908355)
Just to add to the above: My uncle played minor league ball in Hagerstown and had a bunch of stories. BUt he said his biggest thrill in baseball was when he went to the Univ of Pittsburgh Fieldhouse to try out for the team. Him and another guy were set to work out at 3b, when who comes out of the dugout but old man Honus Wagner! He came out there and hit fungoes to the boys and coaches judged their fielding; he made the team. This would have been about 1943 (Wagner died in 1948). He also roomed with Boots Poffenberg who figures in Durocher's book.
   30. AndrewJ Posted: December 17, 2019 at 08:31 PM (#5909422)
Fun names: [...} Jerry Upp

Also under the category: The One Player Rick Astley Is Never Gonna Give You in His Historical Fantasy League...
   31. puck Posted: December 17, 2019 at 11:24 PM (#5909440)
Rotation of the World Series Rockies:


It doesn't seem as bad with the ERA+:

114 4.22, 17-9
117 4.12, 8-7
97 4.94, 10-9
100 4.81, 5-7
112 4.28, 4-4
109 4.42, 5-4

No aces, but that's not bad.

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