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Tuesday, December 03, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-3-2019

Pittsburgh Gazette Times, December 3, 1919:

Babe Ruth, outfielder for the Boston American League baseball club and champion home run hitter of the world, may become a professional heavyweight boxer, it was announced [yesterday]. Kid McCoy, former pugilist, and Al St. John, a motion picture actor, [yesterday] entered into an agreement by which McCoy will train Ruth for 30 days and, if his report is favorable, St. John will finance a campaign of the outfielder to obtain a match with Jack Dempsey, heavyweight champion.

It’s horrible, this idea.

The only boxing/MLB two-sport athlete I’m aware of is Art Shires, a White Sox first baseman who went 5-2 as a heavyweight from 1929-1935. Maybe there are more. There are probably more. Anyway, Shires and Hack Wilson came very close to a boxing match at one point but it never happened.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 10:05 AM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5905153)
The good news is that today's Birthday Team has a Chico and doesn't have any awful players.
The bad news is that this is today's Birthday Team.

C: Clay Dalrymple (16.8 WAR)
1B: Joe Collins (12.2 WAR)
2B: Chico Salmon (1.0 WAR)
3B: Wayne Garrett (16.8 WAR)
SS: Steve Huntz (0.8 WAR)
LF: Darryl Hamilton (16.7 WAR)
CF: Joe Birmingham (3.3 WAR)
RF: Harry Simpson (4.8 WAR)

SP: Paul Byrd (16.2 WAR)
SP: Gene Nelson (7.3 WAR)
SP: Louis Drucke (4.9 WAR)
SP: Charlie Wagner (3.2 WAR)
SP: Butch Wensloff (3.1 WAR)
RP: Manny Corpas (4.4 WAR)

Umpire: Billy McLean
Spare P/OF/1B: Cozy Dolan (4.8 WAR; 3.3 WAR as position player, 1.5 WAR as pitcher)
Designated Aussie: Chris Snelling (0.5 WAR)
Fun Names: Hooks Iott, Lafayette Currence, Tobi Stoner
   2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5905167)
2B: Chico Salmon (1.0 WAR)

pronounced "say-MOAN". He was the ultimate utility player for the Indians in the 60's--played 6 different positions almost every year. He wasn't very good, but man, he hustled
   3. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 03, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5905172)
"a Chico"

The convergence is upon us.

You can see the Ruth-Dempsey thing turning into some sort of exhibition, three rounds, Dempsey going easy, some clowning and both of them walking away with $50,000.

I find this endlessly interesting: Butch Wensloff was traded from the Yankees to the Indians at the start of the 1948 season. In return, the Indians assigned Al Rosen, Texas League MVP, to the Yankees' Kansas City farm team for the season. While the Indians, Red Sox, and Yankees slugged out a pennant race that finished with two games separating first and third place, the Yankees controlled an Indians' prospect who batted .327/.422/.587 in Triple A. It's a good thing for Bill Veeck that the Indians pulled it out in the end.
   4. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5905176)
I find this endlessly interesting: Butch Wensloff was traded from the Yankees to the Indians at the start of the 1948 season. In return, the Indians assigned Al Rosen, Texas League MVP, to the Yankees' Kansas City farm team for the season. While the Indians, Red Sox, and Yankees slugged out a pennant race that finished with two games separating first and third place, the Yankees controlled an Indians' prospect who batted .327/.422/.587 in Triple A. It's a good thing for Bill Veeck that the Indians pulled it out in the end.

I think teams used to loan out minor leaguers when they had a positional logjam.
   5. Itchy Row Posted: December 03, 2019 at 11:14 AM (#5905183)
Rosen mostly played third, and the Indians' Triple A team's (the Baltimore Orioles) third baseman in 1948 was Lew Riggs. Riggs had played in the major leagues from 1934 to 1942 and one game in 1946, but he was 38 in 1948 and didn't make it back to the major leagues.

Rosen did play 31 games at short that year. Baltimore's shortstops were Bobby Wilson and Ken Braun. Neither of them ever played in the majors and, based on their minor league stats, probably weren't big prospects.
   6. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5905202)
Building off of yesterday's game: let's see if we can come up with a decent team of players who were property of an MLB team but never appeared in a game for them.

SP: Robin Roberts NYY
SP: John Smoltz DET
SP: Johan Santana HOU
SP: Tom Seaver ATL (sort of)
RP: Trevor Hoffman CIN
C:
1B: Jeff Bagwell BOS
2B: Miguel Cairo LAD
3B:
SS:
OF:
OF:
OF:
DH: Cecil Fielder KC

Presumably most of these will be guys who were traded while they were still prospects. But more players like Roberts, who were traded during the off-season, and then traded again before the season started, would be even better.
   7. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5905204)
1B: Dick Allen, Braves
2B/3B: Jackie Robinson, Giants
CF: Curt Flood, Phillies
   8. The Run Fairy Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5905205)
Can you count Jackie Robinson with the Giants?

There might be someone better, but Mike Napoli with TOR can catch.
And Pee Wee Reese with the Red Sox can play SS.
   9. Nasty Nate Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:22 PM (#5905207)
David Ortiz - SEA
   10. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5905209)
Mark Prior - Padres, Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox, Reds
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5905210)
2B: Roberto Alomar - Tampa Bay
   12. Itchy Row Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5905211)
Manny Ramirez- A's, Rangers, Cubs
   13. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5905212)
But more players like Roberts, who were traded during the off-season, and then traded again before the season started, would be even better.


RP - Rollie Fingers, Cardinals
1B - Norm Cash, Indians
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5905213)
Rollie Fingers, Cardinals
Fred McGriff/Willie McGee, Yankees

EDIT: Wow, the Yankees in the early '80s were pretty terrible at evaluating African-American prospects whose last names began with McG.
   15. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5905215)
oohh, I like Alomar. Not only did he not appear in an MLB game for TB, he didn't appear in a minor league game for them either.
   16. Itchy Row Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5905216)
Vladimir Guerrero- Blue Jays
   17. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5905217)
Roberto Clemente, Dodgers
   18. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5905218)
Miles Mikolas, Pirates
   19. Nasty Nate Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5905219)
oohh, I like Alomar. Not only did he not appear in an MLB game for TB, he didn't appear in a minor league game for them either.
Miguel Cairo stuck out as flagrantly unworthy so I had to help!
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5905220)
SP: Johan Santana HOU
Santana would also qualify with the Marlins, Orioles and Blue Jays.
   21. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5905223)
Pedro Guerrero, Indians
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5905229)
Is it too soon to put Gleyber Torres on this team? (grumble grumble flags forever grumble grumble)
   23. Itchy Row Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5905230)
Jose Canseco- Expos
   24. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5905231)
   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5905232)
RP: Trevor Hoffman CIN
Don't you mean SS?
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5905233)
George Bell, Phillies
   27. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5905268)
Piniella--Seattle Pilots
   28. Walt Davis Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5905270)
Josh Hamilton -- TB, Cubs (taken in rule 5 then immediately sold to Cinci)
George Bell -- Phillies (another rule 5)
   29. Walt Davis Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5905272)
Josh Donaldson -- Cubs
   30. Nasty Nate Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5905273)
OF - Bobby Abreu - Tampa Bay
   31. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5905274)
Carlos Santana -- Mariners

Today is the 1st anniversary of his trade to the Mariners!
   32. JJ1986 Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:52 PM (#5905276)
Joe Randa probably isn't good enough, but he was a Met for a few days.
   33. Mike Webber Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5905278)
Hoyt Wilhelm - Royals
   34. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5905281)
Mike Cuellar--Indians
   35. Nasty Nate Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5905285)
Do these count?

Joe Rudi - Red Sox
Rollie Fingers - Red Sox
Vida Blue - Yankees
   36. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:09 PM (#5905286)
Bouton--White Sox
   37. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5905287)
Do these count?

Joe Rudi - Red Sox
Rollie Fingers - Red Sox
Vida Blue - Yankees

if they do, then you have to count Curt Flood--Phillies
   38. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:17 PM (#5905289)
Do these count?

Joe Rudi - Red Sox
Rollie Fingers - Red Sox
Vida Blue - Yankees


You could use Blue twice - he was also traded to the Reds by the A's in December of 1977, but Bowie Kuhn vetoed that trade, saying it wasn't in the best competitive interests of baseball.
   39. Gary Truth Serum Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5905301)
John Wetteland - Reds, Texas Penal League
   40. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5905304)
Ryan Howard--Braves and Rockies
   41. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 03, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5905305)
Roberto Clemente, Dodgers


The Pirates drafted Elroy Face from the Dodgers, too.

   42. Itchy Row Posted: December 03, 2019 at 03:17 PM (#5905320)
Orlando Hernandez- Expos.

El Duque was traded from the Yankees to the White Sox and then by the Sox to the Expos on the same day. He didn't pitch that year and went back to the Yankees as a free agent. He went back to the White Sox after that.

And, sadly, Tim Crews- Indians
   43. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: December 03, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5905322)
I'm counting Tom Seaver as a member of the Braves, so pretty much everything is fair game.

Let's see what kind of a team we've got:

SP: Walter Johnson CHI*
SP: Robin Roberts NYY*
SP: John Smoltz DET
SP: Tom Seaver ATL*
SP: Vida Blue NYY*
RP: Hoyt Wilhelm KC*
RP: Rollie Fingers STL
RP: Jim Bouton CHW
RP/SS: Trevor Hoffman CIN
C: Carlos Santana SEA
1B: Dick Allen ATL
2B: Robbie Alomar TB*
3B: Jackie Robinson NYG
SS: Pee Wee Reese BOS
OF: Roberto Clemente BRO
OF: Vlad Guerrero Sr. TOR
OF: Jose Canseco MTL*
DH: Cecil Fielder KC

Extra credit for players marked with a star. They never even appeared in the minors with these teams.
   44. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 03:28 PM (#5905326)
The Pirates drafted Elroy Face from the Dodgers, too.
Yeah, but #### that guy.
   45. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5905348)
Dick Allen gets a star for the Braves. The White Sox traded him to Atlanta in December 1974 after he had retired with a few weeks left in the 1974 season, but Allen stayed "retired" until the Braves traded him to the Phillies in May 1975.
   46. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: December 03, 2019 at 04:25 PM (#5905351)
You could fill 3/4 of the infield with former Cub properties who got MVP votes this year.
   47. AndrewJ Posted: December 03, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5905356)
Sixteen-year-old Richie Ashburn signed with the Cleveland Indians in 1943, but Judge Landis nullified the contract.
   48. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 03, 2019 at 05:08 PM (#5905365)
Is it too soon to put Gleyber Torres on this team?
No, and in a few more years he will be everyone’s 1st selection.
   49. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 03, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5905369)
You could fill 3/4 of the infield with former Cub properties who got MVP votes this year.
Donaldson, Torres...who else? LeMahieu actually got into some games with the Cubs.
   50. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: December 03, 2019 at 05:28 PM (#5905372)
LeMahieu actually got into some games with the Cubs.


that he did. never mind.
   51. Itchy Row Posted: December 03, 2019 at 05:29 PM (#5905374)
If the Cubs had held on to Gleyber Torres, he wouldn't get to face the Orioles that much and nobody would know who he is.
   52. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2019 at 06:31 PM (#5905394)
Wow, Gleyber Torres has hit more than a third of his home runs vs. the Orioles last year. For his career, he's hit more than a quarter of them against the O's.
   53. SoSH U at work Posted: December 03, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5905405)
Do these count?

Joe Rudi - Red Sox


No, because he played with the Sox in 1981.

   54. Sweatpants Posted: December 03, 2019 at 08:30 PM (#5905412)
Yunel Escobar and Ryan Madson could each make this team twice - Escobar with the Marlins and A's, Madson with the Reds and Angels.

A couple of left-handers the White Sox traded away, Mike Sirotka and Britt Burns, never made it into a major league game with their new teams.
   55. SoSH U at work Posted: December 03, 2019 at 08:36 PM (#5905414)
DH: Cecil Fielder KC


David Ortiz with Seattle, though I suppose the fact he wasn't David Ortiz while he was with Seattle could be a sticking point.
   56. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 04, 2019 at 10:17 AM (#5905484)
C - Charles Johnson, NYM

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