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Wednesday, January 06, 2021

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-6-2021

Pittsburgh Gazette Times, January 6, 1921:

The New York Giants [yesterday] bottled up the baseball situation on Manhattan Island. If the newly organized Colonial [sic] League or the American League desires to get playing grounds on the island, they will have to see Messrs. Stoneham, McGraw, and Judge McQuade of the National Exhibition Company.

The formal transfer yesterday of two lots in the block on the north side of One Hundred and Fifty-fifth street, 225 feet east of Eighth avenue, between the Polo Grounds Manhattan Field tract controlled by the Giants, and the Harlem River, blocks the last chance of a baseball club to find grounds on the island unless on the site of the Highlanders park.

This land is essentially right across the Macombs Dam Bridge from Yankee Stadium was built, so if the Continental League had been serious, they could have just bought land in the Bronx on the other side of the river.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: January 06, 2021 at 10:25 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: January 06, 2021 at 10:27 AM (#5997669)
Not much in the way of position players on today's Birthday Team. It's probably safe to say that you're going to struggle if you're relying on Marlon Anderson, Lee Walls, Lenny Green, and George Shoch to produce runs.

C: Phil Masi (15.3 WAR)
1B: Ruben Amaro Sr. (2.3 WAR)
2B: Marlon Anderson (7.2 WAR)
3B: Billy Purtell (3.2 WAR)
SS: George Shoch (10.1 WAR)
LF: Lee Walls (7.9 WAR)
CF: Lenny Green (8.4 WAR)
RF: Chuck Workman (2.4 WAR)

SP: Early Wynn (60.7 WAR)
SP: Don Gullett (18.2 WAR)
SP: Ralph Branca (14.8 WAR)
SP: Kevin Gausman (10.2 WAR)
SP: Joe Lake (6.4 WAR)
RP: Tom Ferrick (12.3 WAR)
RP: Norm Charlton (8.0 WAR)

Bad name for a pitcher: Anthony Slama
Fun name: Doe Boyland, Keyvius Sampson
Manager: Jack Slattery
What's the best way to ensure that you have enough Vitamin D?: Sun Daly
   2. vortex of dissipation Posted: January 06, 2021 at 12:02 PM (#5997690)
SP: Don Gullett (18.2 WAR)


Don Gullett is a member of a very exclusive club, along with Cristian Pache, Mickey Lolich, and Joe Blanton, of players who never hit a regular season MLB home run, but hit one in the post-season. Pache, of course, did it last season as a rookie, and is the only non-pitcher on the list, so he's likely to remove himself from the list this season. But for now, he's on it.
   3. EddieA Posted: January 06, 2021 at 12:32 PM (#5997693)
Gullett would have probably had a long career if he had been born 10 years later.
Another notable athletic feat for Gullett is he scored 72 points (11 TDs, 6 XPs) individually in a high school football game.
   4. Itchy Row Posted: January 06, 2021 at 01:50 PM (#5997705)
From this article:
As if 72 points wasn’t enough, Bryson said it could have been more.

“He had an off night kicking,” he said.
   5. Ron J Posted: January 06, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#5997715)
#3 Don't know. He broke several times of course but came up under "Captain Hook" and was handled fairly gently by the standard of the day. Pitching is tough.
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 06, 2021 at 02:50 PM (#5997729)
Gullett is 8th all time in winning percentage (certainly helps to pitch for the Big Red Machine)
   7. Walt Davis Posted: January 06, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#5997744)
It's difficult to play alternate universe with Gullet's career. They still pick HS pitchers in the first round but not many of them (3 of 37 in 2020). He threw 78 dominant innings (87 Ks) in low A-ball that summer. His next stop was the majors -- and hard to argue with that with a 2.43 ERA and 76 K in 78 innings.There are only 6 pitchers in the 2000s who debuted at 19 ... Julio Urias (who might yet do something), King Felix (excellent), Elvis Luciano (Jays reliever), Edwin Jackson (long, decent career), MadBum (very good), Dylan Bundy (decent).

So it's possible that he'd still be a 1st round pick today, possible he'll still debut at 19 but not very likely. So maybe he goes to college where he suffers some injuries and red flags when he's drafted 4 years later. Or maybe he is drafted but they develop him on a more standard timeline. Maybe he's recognized as fragile and is prettty strictly limited to 5-6 innings per start ... which maybe keeps him healthy, maybe it doesn't.

Gullett I suppose is something of a mix of Urias' fragility and MadBum. As #5 says, his actual usage is pretty similar to today's. He did have one season with 35 starts but the next two highest are 31 and 30 and some seasons in the 20s. He had 243 IP in that big year, the other two years around 220, only two other seasons around 160. He of course had a lot of CGs by today's standards but not by those of his day and he averaged only about 7 per start.

Urias is interesting. Signed at 16 out of Mexico, the Dodgers had him in A ball at 16, A= at 17 and AA at 18. He's now turning 24 with just 239 innings but a nice 129 ERA+.

Gullett stopped posting the big K numbers at 20. But the Reds had a couple of other guys like this around the same time. Gary Nolan was a big K guy brought up at 19 too -- he led the NL with 8.2 K/9 in 227 innings. He pitched half-seasons at 20-21 and then 2 full seasons at around 6.5 K/9 ... then 5.5 ... then 4.5. But still effective with a 127 ERA+ through 1150 innings by age 24. Missed nearly all of ages 25-26 then back for full effective seasons at 27-38 K'ing just 3-4 but dropping the BB rate to 1 (led the NL in both years and in K/BB in the 2nd year). But that was basically it.

OK, Jim Maloney pre-dated Gullett by more years than I thought -- he came up in 1960, Gullett 1970. Still Maloney hit the bigs at 20, K'd 9.5/9 at 23 and had a modern starter's usage (27-33 starts) through 29. He broke in Gullett's rookie year. Looks like there was another guy I never heard of named Sammy Ellis -- he K'd 8.7 and 9.2 in his first two stints in the majors before the "Reds decline" to 6.5 then 5, but that doesn't seem injury-related either.
   8. Ron J Posted: January 06, 2021 at 04:10 PM (#5997754)
#7 Maloney's "modern starter usage" was chronic arm issues. Which went from, "take a little time off" to, bye bye fastball" in 1970.

Almost never fully healthy. He was directly compared to Koufax in terms of raw stuff. Also a fastball (clocked at 99.5 for whatever 60s timing is worth) and curveball pitcher. He actually felt his curve was his best pitch though he was more well known for a high fastball (which is why he was gone when he lost the fastball)

Nolan's an interesting guy. Came up as a fastballer. Had injury problems and lost the A+ fastball. Added a change that had kind of a screwball effect. A lot of people thought it was a spitter.
   9. Walt Davis Posted: January 06, 2021 at 08:35 PM (#5997814)
Maloney's "modern starter usage" was chronic arm issues.

Hard to square that with the game logs. In 1963, his DR (days rest) went:

5, 4, 4, 7, 4, 5, 5, 4, 4, 5, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 6, 5, 4

He made 2 starts on 3 days rest in 1964 plus had one extended 10-day gap (so skipped once).

In 1965, he did make 12 of 32 starts on 3-days rest ... survived it for that year at 255 IP. He got partially skipped a couple of times. Similar in 66 with 10 of 32 ... skipped once, may have hit the DL once (14 days rest which I know is not 15 days but odd to keep a guy active while skipping him twice ... how did they handle DL days with double-headers?) In 1967, it was 5 of 30 with many skipped starts but at most 1 DL trip -- clear signs of issues but not being pushed otherwise.

So in 1963, Maloney made 1 start on 3 days, 22 on 4, 6 on 5 and a few with more. In 2018, Scherzer made 19 starts on 4 and 11 on 5. In 64, Maloney had 4 on 3, 14 on 4, 6 on 5, etc; Kyle Hendricks 2018 had 13 on 4 and 17 on 5. In 1967, Maloney had 5 on 3, 15 on 4 and 4 on 5. MadBum 2019 had 20 on 4 and 11 on 5.

I don't know if it was a wet spring in 1963 but the Reds played only 16 games in 23 days of April so did stick mainly to 3 starters. Once May and regular games rolled around, they had a fairly steady 5 day/man rotation of Maloney, Nuxhall, Purkey, O'Toole and Jay, mixing in a guy named Tistouris on occasion, eventually mostly replacing Jay in the rotation. There don't seem to be any major injuries in that group of 6, it looks by design. 1964 was more of the same and again they all look reasonably healthy throughout the year.

1965 looks to start the same way with Sammy Ellis replacing Purkey. Maloney on 3 days rest doesn't start until mid-June and is ended at the end of July then returns at the end of August with the Reds just 1.5 games back. In that first stretch, the other guys were making the other starts so that seems a clear intent to get Maloney out there every 4th day/game.

1966 is tough to judge. Pappas has been added but Nuxhall gets hurt. Then Maloney gets skipped, presumably an owie. So they may have started with the intent of a 5 game/day rotation then switched to 4 with Nuxhall's injury and Maloney sidelined. But they seem settled in a 4-man featuring Maloney across 6 weeks of June-July. At that point they put Nuxhall back in for a pretty regular turn. In 67, they seem to settle into a 4-man for July but then settle back into a 5 day/game rotation.

So in those formative years (Maloney is 27 in 1967), the Reds employed a 4-man rotation for only parts of 65, 66, 67 for what looks to be a total of about 22 weeks. In 63-64, it looks like he was regularly given at least 4 days off by design.

   10. vortex of dissipation Posted: January 06, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#5997816)
Similar in 66 with 10 of 32 ... skipped once, may have hit the DL once (14 days rest which I know is not 15 days but odd to keep a guy active while skipping him twice ... how did they handle DL days with double-headers?)


Maloney held out for more money in 1966 and missed most of spring training; according to his SABR bio, "Maloney shut out the Phillies to begin the season despite having missed most of spring training, however, he was plagued by arm and shoulder stiffness and was dropped from the rotation in early May and missed two starts."
   11. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 06, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#5997835)
Jim Maloney pre-dated Gullett by more years than I thought -- he came up in 1960, Gullett 1970.


The Reds also came up with Wayne Simpson in 1970, 13-1 at the All Star break, on a pace to throw 270 innings on the season. Actually threw 176, finished his career 36-31. I was hoping that Gullett replaced him in the rotation, but they used a bunch of guys. They also came up with Milt Wilcox that year.
   12. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 06, 2021 at 10:46 PM (#5997838)
mixing in a guy named Tistouris on occasion, eventually mostly replacing Jay in the rotation. There don't seem to be any major


That’s Tsitouris, the only player on BR whose name starts with TS.

He was the inflection point for my switching primary allegiance to the Phils from the Reds. We moved immediately after the surprise pennant of 1961. Once I saw his name in the box score in 1962, I just felt like the Reds had started to become unfamiliar to me.
   13. JJ1986 Posted: January 07, 2021 at 12:42 PM (#5997922)
Oh #### yes, Francisco Lindor!!!
   14. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 07, 2021 at 12:49 PM (#5997925)
Jeff Passan on Twitter:

So far what we know of the New York-Cleveland blockbuster:

Mets get: SS Francisco Lindor and RHP Carlos Carrasco (as
@Feinsand
reported)

Cleveland gets: SS Andres Gimenez, RHP Josh Wolf, OF Isaiah Greene
   15. Adam Starblind Posted: January 07, 2021 at 12:49 PM (#5997926)
Getting Carrasco too. Giminez and a low-minors 2nd rounder Isaiah Greene going the other way.
   16. Adam Starblind Posted: January 07, 2021 at 12:52 PM (#5997928)
Looks like Rosario is going too.
   17. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 07, 2021 at 12:59 PM (#5997930)
Yeah, just came to post the same thing about Rosario going too.

So basically the Mets gave up Rosario, Gimenez and their 2019 and 2020 2nd round picks for 1 year of Lindor and Carrsco at 2/$27.
   18. Adam Starblind Posted: January 07, 2021 at 01:03 PM (#5997932)
Have to assume they will try hard to extend Lindor too.
   19. SandyRiver Posted: January 07, 2021 at 02:34 PM (#5997984)
He was directly compared to Koufax in terms of raw stuff.

My one clear memory of Maloney is a game in 1965 against the Mets. He carried a one-walk 17K no-hitter into the 11th when Johnny Lewis (3K so far) led off and hit one over the CF fence. After K#18, McMillan singled followed by a DP and the Mets' RP completed the shutout. After the game Lewis said he could barely see Maloney's fastball, just swung at where he thought it would be.
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: January 07, 2021 at 04:59 PM (#5998061)
My one clear memory of Maloney is a game in 1965 against the Mets. He carried a one-walk 17K no-hitter into the 11th when Johnny Lewis (3K so far) led off and hit one over the CF fence. After K#18, McMillan singled followed by a DP and the Mets' RP completed the shutout. After the game Lewis said he could barely see Maloney's fastball, just swung at where he thought it would be.


That was just a warm-up for his 12-K, 10-walk, 10-inning no-hitter against the Cubs, where he tossed an economical 187 pitches.
   21. Ron J Posted: January 07, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#5998076)
#20 I remember a story from around that time that kind of sums up the era. Ken Holtzman didn't have his best stuff but had reached a key situation in the late innings and had just walked somebody. Manager came out to ask him how he was doing and he answered that he had nothing left.

Wrong answer. He was supposed to lie and the manager was supposed to judge whether he could actually work through it. Holtzman was genuinely surprised. He was a smart guy and was trying to provide the manager with the best possible information.

It's typical of the era that Maloney -- a man with special stuff and an arm known to be balky -- would throw a zillion pitches on a day where his command was off.
   22. The Honorable Ardo Posted: January 07, 2021 at 06:22 PM (#5998090)
Wrong answer. He was supposed to lie and the manager was supposed to judge whether he could actually work through it.
Glad we're no longer in that era. Sounds like any restrictive guild or caste throughout history. The players are too dumb to know their own good, and no outsider fan can ever have the esoteric knowledge of the manager.
   23. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: January 08, 2021 at 09:12 AM (#5998227)
Urias is interesting. Signed at 16 out of Mexico, the Dodgers had him in A ball at 16, A= at 17 and AA at 18. He's now turning 24 with just 239 innings but a nice 129 ERA+.

I remember when a Dayton Dragons game was in the news for some reason and a lot of people found out about Urias that day because the story mentioned he was the youngest player in the history of the Midwest League or something like that.

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