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Tuesday, February 18, 2020

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-18-2020

Philadelphia Evening Public Ledger, February 18, 1920:

Benjamin Kauff, star fielder of the New York Giants, was out on bail today after his arrest yesterday on a charge of grand larceny in connection with the alleged theft of an automobile.

Kauff, who until recently was engaged with his half brother in the automobile accessory business, is alleged to have sold a car last December 15, which had been stolen [in New York] a week before. Kauff maintained that he bought the car in question last October 27.

Kauff was acquitted of the criminal charges, but Commissioner Landis eventually banned him for life over this matter.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 18, 2020 at 09:44 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 18, 2020 at 09:45 AM (#5925057)
An excellent Birthday Team today. It would probably be better with Gregorius or Fennelly in the outfield, but this team is not too shabby as it stands.

C: Joe Tipton (5.5 WAR)
1B: John Mayberry (24.9 WAR)
2B/Manager: Joe Gordon (57.2 WAR)
3B: John Valentin (32.5 WAR)
SS: Frank Fennelly (19.2 WAR)
LF: Manny Mota (17.6 WAR)
CF: Brian Bogusevic (2.0 WAR)
RF: Alex Rios (27.4 WAR)

SP: Kevin Tapani (29.2 WAR)
SP: George Mogridge (28.0 WAR)
SP: Sherry Smith (27.1 WAR)
SP: Bruce Kison (15.1 WAR)
SP: Huck Betts (13.3 WAR)
RP: Bob Miller (16.7 WAR)

General Managers: John Holland, Lou Gorman
Utility Guy: Jamey Carroll (16.6 WAR)
Top Prospect: Didi Gregorius (16.6 WAR)
No-Hit Shortstops: Dal Maxvill (7.7 WAR), Rafael Ramirez (6.0 WAR)
Big bat, bigger guy: Walter Young (0.1 WAR)
Fun Name: Dad Hale
   2. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 09:59 AM (#5925064)
I don't think Manny Mota could have ever batted for Pedro Borbon. They were never teammates, not even in an ASG.
   3. Itchy Row Posted: February 18, 2020 at 10:42 AM (#5925072)
That was only unrealistic part of the movie.
   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 18, 2020 at 12:04 PM (#5925096)
Dal Maxvill was a GM too, and was nominally at the helm for the 1985 and 1987 Cardinals pennant-winners. Big birthday for GMs.
   5. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 18, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5925103)
Looking at Manny Mota on BR reminds me of how much roster construction has changed during our lifetime (well, my lifetime). Mota was 40 years old when he played for the pennant winning 1978 Dodgers. He played in 37 games that season, all as a pinch hitter. He looks to have been on the roster all season, although there were stretches where he didn't play for a week or so. He was on the post-season roster, and played in the World Series. He hit .303 with an OPS+ of 97.

But what makes it interesting is that Tommy Lasorda also carried another veteran player, in almost the same role. Vic Davalillo was 38 years old, He actually pinch hit 52 times, which was more than Mota. Davalillo did play 26 games in the field, one at first base and the others in the outfield, but was used sparingly on defense. Only four of those games were starts, and he played only 84 innings on defense. He was on the roster all year, and played in the World Series. He also did his job, hitting .312 with an OPS+ of 103.

That kind of roster construction is impossible today. To carry two aging players as pinch hitters with very limited, or none at all, defensive value, one lefty and one righty, in a non-DH league, is a luxury managers don't have today. To me, that kind of roster construction seems more interesting than what we have now.
   6. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 12:56 PM (#5925107)
Only possible when you get 80% of your IP from your starters.
   7. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5925108)
Trivia:

The 1978 Dodgers had 15 pitchers face at least 1 batter (none were position players). 9 of them won 16 or more games in a season at some point in their career. Name them.
   8. RJ in TO Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:07 PM (#5925110)
Sutton, Marshall, Hough, and John are the first four who come to mind, although I'm not sure if Marshall quite got to 16 wins in a season.
   9. RJ in TO Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:09 PM (#5925112)
Also, it appears Marshall was gone from the Dodgers by 1978, so ignore that one.
   10. Nasty Nate Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:09 PM (#5925113)
Dave Stewart? Bob Welch? I have a vague notion that a couple of guys from those 80's A's rotation started with the Dodgers.
   11. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:09 PM (#5925114)
Marshall wasn't on the 78 Dodgers. The other 3 are correct.
   12. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:10 PM (#5925115)
Stewart and Welch are correct. 4 to go. Both of them debuted in 1978. Stewart pitched a total of 2 innings.
   13. Itchy Row Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:15 PM (#5925118)
Doug Rau? I only knew him from Lasorda yelling at him, but I remember he had a few good years.
   14. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:17 PM (#5925121)
Rau is correct, and probably the least well known of the bunch. 3 to go, all pretty well known.
   15. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:18 PM (#5925122)
Burt Hooton would be one of them. Was Alejandro Pena up yet?
   16. Tyhand7 Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5925123)
Rhoden
   17. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5925124)
I think they still had Don Sutton, too.

EDIT: Ah, I see someone already named Sutton.
   18. Tyhand7 Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:20 PM (#5925125)
Did Forster win 16 games?
   19. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:20 PM (#5925126)
Hooton and Rhoden are correct. Pena not.
   20. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:20 PM (#5925127)
Forster did not.
   21. Tyhand7 Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:21 PM (#5925128)
Sutcliffe?
   22. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5925130)
Sutcliffe is the final answer.
   23. RJ in TO Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:27 PM (#5925132)
In the order they appear on B-R's page for the 1978 Dodgers, the nine guys won 324, 151, 288, 81 (Rau!), 151, 211, 216, 168, and 171 games in their careers. That's a pretty impressive pile of pitching talent on one staff.
   24. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5925134)
Only possible when you get 80% of your IP from your starters.


It also helped that they had four good, durable infielders who never got hurt, and never needed to be pinch-hit for. Their backup infielders were Lee Lacy, who was really an outfielder, and Teddy Martinez, who was on the roster all year but got 61 PAs.
   25. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:40 PM (#5925139)
In the order they appear on B-R's page for the 1978 Dodgers, the nine guys won 324, 151, 288, 81 (Rau!), 151, 211, 216, 168, and 171 games in their careers. That's a pretty impressive pile of pitching talent on one staff.

in this HOM thread from MANY years ago, it was decided that the 1978 Dodgers staff had the most lifetime wins of any staff

EDIT in the live ball era anyway
   26. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: February 18, 2020 at 01:45 PM (#5925141)
Re 5: He also batted (batted) for Pedro Borbon (Borbon)...
   27. SoSH U at work Posted: February 18, 2020 at 02:01 PM (#5925143)
in this HOM thread from MANY years ago, it was decided that the 1978 Dodgers staff had the most lifetime wins of any staff


Future wins, not lifetime wins.

The 1978 Dodgers had a little over 1,700 lifetime wins. That's not as many as the 1998 Braves, who had more than 1,800 lifetime wins (Maddux, Glavine, Neagle, Smoltz and Millwood in the rotation, with Denny Martinez and Paul Byrd, among others, getting some innings in relief/spot starts).

   28. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 18, 2020 at 02:10 PM (#5925145)
1966 Cubs had 2017 total wins. They lost 103 games.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: February 18, 2020 at 02:18 PM (#5925147)
I knew at least one other club had that Braves staff beat.
   30. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 18, 2020 at 02:21 PM (#5925148)
Future wins, not lifetime wins.

yes, sorry--I misspoke. This all started with the Bill James claim in one of the early abstracts that the 1964 Indians staff had the most future wins
   31. Itchy Row Posted: February 18, 2020 at 02:23 PM (#5925149)
Celebrating Manny Mota's birthday by talking about pitcher wins reminds me of celebrating Kobe Bryant by not shooting the ball.
   32. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: February 18, 2020 at 04:47 PM (#5925185)
That's Original Expo™ Manny Mota to you.
   33. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: February 19, 2020 at 07:50 AM (#5925277)
Kauff was acquitted of the criminal charges, but Commissioner Landis eventually banned him for life over this matter.

Being Jewish (and playing in the Federal League) probably didn’t help.
   34. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: February 19, 2020 at 08:03 AM (#5925279)
   35. Walt Davis Posted: February 19, 2020 at 11:02 PM (#5925482)
On good ol' PH specialists and modern roster construction ... the Cubs did manage to carry LaStella for most of 3 seasons (he had a few trips to the minors) while never getting more than 200 PA. He did have 31, 23 and 24 starts so more than just a PHer but still quite limited time. In 2015 they also had Jonathan Herrera on the roster for (I think) the entire season with just 132 PA and only 17 starts once Bryant learned how to field and the Cubs realized just how bad Alcantara and Herrera were. (Just 6 starts in the 2nd half) So it can still be done with a durable lineup and a willingness to give Chris Coghlan starts at 2B.
   36. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 19, 2020 at 11:20 PM (#5925485)
the Cubs did manage to carry LaStella for most of 3 seasons (he had a few trips to the minors) while never getting more than 200 PA.
And they somehow failed to notice that he was apparently a swing change away from being a productive hitter.

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