Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, February 07, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-7-2019

Jackson County [North Carolina] Journal, February 7, 1919:

[Cubs manager] Fred Mitchell wants the majors to make a rule abolishing an out on a foul fly.
...
The franchises of the Washington and St. Louis clubs haven’t been transferred in several days now.
...
Branch Rickey will probably drop his job as president of the Cards to become manager next season. Hendricks is slated to get the gate.
...
Sunday baseball will probably be made legal in New York state at the coming session of the legislature. Governor-elect Smith favors the plan.

Al Smith for president!

Elsewhere, the New York Evening World reports that the state legislature is considering a bill that would, in part, legalize fishing on Sundays. The number of things people weren’t allowed to do on Sunday never ceases to amaze me.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 09:51 AM | 58 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5813084)
Speaking of Al Smith, today is 1950s baseball Al Smith's birthday. There are no huge stars on today's Birthday Team, but a bunch of good second-tier players. And watching Josh Collmenter's pitching motion never gets old.

C/Manager: Pat Moran (6.8 WAR)
1B: Carney Lansford (40.4 WAR)
2B: Damaso Garcia (7.2 WAR)
3B: Al Smith (20.1 WAR)
SS: Tom Daly (28.1 WAR)
LF: Charlie Jamieson (22.2 WAR)
CF: Endy Chavez (4.7 WAR)
RF: Spike Shannon (5.5 WAR)

SP: Earl Whitehill (37.2 WAR)
SP: Burt Hooton (35.7 WAR)
SP: Juan Pizarro (19.6 WAR)
SP: Scott Feldman (8.3 WAR)
SP: Josh Collmenter (7.1 WAR)
RP: Dan Quisenberry (24.9 WAR)

Owner: Tom Hicks
Umpire: Brian O'Nora
Not that one: Mike Jordan, John Fox, Ted Kennedy, Jon Leicester
   2. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:22 AM (#5813100)
Hard to believe there is a stating spot on a very solid birthday team for Endy "Inning" Chavez.

He holds a special place in Phillies fans hearts. First they trade Marlon Byrd** for him, and he sucks (-0.4 WAR in part time play). Then he signs with the hated Mets and puts up a 1.8 WAR in little over a half season.

** This was the pre-emergent Byrd to be fair.
   3. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5813102)
The number of things people weren’t allowed to do on Sunday never ceases to amaze me.


In my little corner of NJ, we still have Blue Laws -- mainly because the good people of Paramus would like one day a week free of mall traffic...
   4. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5813171)
Al Smith was a regular for the only two non-Yankee American League teams to play in the World Series during the 1950s, the '54 Indians and '59 White Sox.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5813178)
SP: Earl Whitehill (37.2 WAR)

Whitehill has got a pretty interesting career. 218 wins (never would have guessed that), but 185 losses. More BB than Ks, and only a 100 ERA+ for his career. Crazy consistent from 1924 to 1936.

He has the 4th worst ERA+ for pitchers with >200 wins.

Anyone want to guess the other 3? All well known pitchers who played between 1950 and 1990.
   6. Qufini Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5813186)
Joe Niekro
   7. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5813204)
Jim Kaat? If I recall correctly, he played from 1950 to 1990.

Tommy John also.
   8. The Mighty Quintana Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5813205)
Jack Morris
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5813206)
Joe Niekro is correct, and is the lowest at 98.

John (111), Kaat (108), and Morris (105) are incorrect.

   10. JJ1986 Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5813208)
Catfish?
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5813213)
Catfish?

Catfish Hunter at 104, 14th worst.

Of the two remaining, #2 at 99 played in the 50's and 60's. #3 at 100, played in the 70's and 80's.
   12. sanny manguillen Posted: February 07, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5813236)
Reuss
   13. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 07, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5813251)
Along with baseball and music, another of my interests is aviation history. The San Diego Air and Space Museum Flickr thread has put up some photos that show a USAF officer from the 1950s with a rocket or helmet of some kind, with some Kansas City Athletics players. Can anyone identify the players (click on the photo for a larger copy)? Here are some more.
   14. SoSH U at work Posted: February 07, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5813267)
Bob Forsch?
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5813283)
Reuss is correct. He's #3.

#2 once pitched 3 CGs in one World Series, winning all three. 2 SHO.
   16. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5813289)
Lew Burdette?
   17. AndrewJ Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:25 PM (#5813318)
OT: It's being reported on Twitter, by credible sources, that Frank Robinson has died.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:35 PM (#5813332)
That sucks.

We'll always have this highlight. Frank's disdain for his own club was a thing of beauty.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5813334)
Burdette is correct.

RIP Frank!
   20. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5813353)
RIP Frank indeed.
   21. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:14 PM (#5813382)
FRobbie may be the first HOFer inducted into the HOF that I saw play. It depends on 3 factors.

1.Whether or not he was inducted before Aaron in that year's induction ceremony. I definitely saw Aaron as the Brewer's DH on TV.

2.Whether or not I saw him play on TV, and

3. Whether or not I ever saw Bob Gibson play.

Eerily enough, BDC and I were having a convo today about milestones and one of the questions he had was about 1st inducted HOFer that you saw.
   22. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5813388)
Eerily enough, BDC and I were having a convo today about milestones and one of the questions he had was about 1st inducted HOFer that you saw.


The earliest baseball games I specifically remember seeing was the 1975 WS. But I was 12 then and had certainly seen games both on TV and in person before that. I went to a lot of Cubs games with my grandfather, and watched a lot on TV, so it's possible my answer is Clemente, as the Cubs played the Pirates 18X a year. But I don't recall specifically if I saw him.

If not Clemente, then Ernie Banks. No specific recollection of watching him play, but I was 7 in 1970 and Banks played 111 games in 1970-71, so it's unlikely I didn't see him play.
   23. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:30 PM (#5813395)
Last player who debuted in 1974 was Kevin Palsey. If he hadn't made his debut on 10/2/74, it would've been Jim Barr or Vietnam vet Bob Jones. Yount and Carter debuted in 1974, so I had players I knew my whole baseball life well into my twenties.

1st player younger than me to play was Ramon Martinez. Last one older than me was Omar Vizquiel.

Casey Stengel died in 1975. Maybe I'll look up if there were older fmr players alive back then, but his is the first HOF death that I recall.
   24. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5813399)
RIP Frank. Legendary in every (baseball-related) sense of the word.

The clip in 18 is terrific. Neifi might not have been our favorite player, but he was smart.

Also, Realmuto to the Phils for "Jorge Alfaro, right-hander Sixto Sanchez, left-hander Will Stewart and $250,000 in international bonus slot money" (per MLB.com)
   25. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5813404)
Sixto Sanchez is the one prospect every Phillies fan can name. That's a big trade.
   26. Man o' Schwar Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5813414)
The number of things people weren’t allowed to do on Sunday never ceases to amaze me.

Growing up in rural Iowa in the 1970s, there was nothing open on Sunday. Restaurants would stay open for lunch only for the post-church crowd, then close.

You went to church, maybe you went out to eat, and that was it. You spent the rest of the day at home.
   27. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5813418)
As a kid in Connecticut (born in 1968,) I recall a lot of things being closed on Sundays. I forget when most of the Blue Laws went away, but the packies and car dealers were closed on Sunday until I was about 40.
   28. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5813427)
Elsewhere, the New York Evening World reports that the state legislature is considering a bill that would, in part, legalize fishing on Sundays.
Its passage represented total defeat for the fish lobby.
   29. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 07, 2019 at 03:58 PM (#5813431)
The San Diego Air and Space Museum Flickr thread has put up some photos that show a USAF officer from the 1950s with a rocket or helmet of some kind, with some Kansas City Athletics players. Can anyone identify the players (click on the photo for a larger copy)? Here are some more.

I'm not sure but the bigger guy looks like Vic Raschi. And he used to be in the Air Force. On the other hand he was only on the A's from May to October of 1955. Not spring training, so why would be be in San Diego?

If it is him, that would narrow it down.
   30. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 07, 2019 at 04:11 PM (#5813438)
Not spring training, so why would be be in San Diego?


I don't think it was shot in San Diego. The San Diego Air and Space Museum owns many aviation photo collections that have been donated to them over the years, and this comes from one of those collections. But the fact it's a museum located in San Diego doesn't have any specific relevance to where the photo was taken.


If it is Raschi, that should pin down the year.
   31. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 07, 2019 at 04:12 PM (#5813440)
If we have any elderly, history-obsessed Yankees fans here by any chance, please identify whether that's Vic Raschi!
   32. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5813441)
Its passage represented total defeat for the fish lobby.
The legislature was obviously in the pocket of Big Bait.
   33. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 07, 2019 at 04:18 PM (#5813442)
I forget when most of the Blue Laws went away, but the packies and car dealers were closed on Sunday until I was about 40.


Where I live, the car dealers are closed on Sunday now! That's the day you can walk around the lot without being bothered by salesmen.
   34. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 04:39 PM (#5813455)
I think most of car dealers around here remained closed as well, but I think that they now have the option of opening. I think some of the smaller liquor stores stay closed, too. Many are literally mom and pop outfits and mom and pop need at least one day of rest.
   35. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5813457)
Tying things together, Raschi owned and operated Green Valley Liquor Store in his post-Yankee days.
   36. SoSH U at work Posted: February 07, 2019 at 05:11 PM (#5813470)
FRobbie may be the first HOFer inducted into the HOF that I saw play.


I was at their induction ceremony. The only one I've attended.

Indiana just legalized Sunday beer sales (in stores) this past year.

   37. Perry Posted: February 07, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5813480)
FRobbie may be the first HOFer inducted into the HOF that I saw play. It depends on 3 factors.


If I understand this correctly, I think it's Koufax for me. I'm sure I watched most of the '65 Series. Only earlier candidate would be Musial, but if I saw him I have no memory of it. If I didn't see Koufax then it's Clemente.

St. Louis still had pretty restrictive blue laws when I lived there in the mid- to late '70s. Even supermarkets were closed, the only stores open were corner stores and gas stations. I think restaurants were open though. It was fun to ride a bike around with no car traffic.
   38. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 07, 2019 at 06:11 PM (#5813485)
The other guy in the photos looks quite a bit shorter, so I wonder if it's Bobby Shantz. He's looking down in both photos so it's hard to tell.

Probably they would have gotten recognizable players like Raschi and Shantz for this sort of photo op. Not Dick Kryhoski or Joe Astroth.
   39. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 07, 2019 at 06:14 PM (#5813486)
I'm not sure but the bigger guy looks like Vic Raschi.


I think it's Lou Boudreau, who managed the A's from '55-'57
   40. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 07, 2019 at 06:20 PM (#5813488)
The other guy in the photos looks quite a bit shorter, so I wonder if it's Bobby Shantz.


Shantz was 5'6". Boudreau was 5'11", and Raschi was 6'1". The guy on the right appears to be neither 5 nor 7 inches shorter than the guy on the left, but 5 looks more possible than 7.
   41. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 07, 2019 at 06:22 PM (#5813490)
The guy on the right could also be Enos Slaughter
   42. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 07, 2019 at 06:59 PM (#5813496)
Aha! The Smithsonian knows about these pictures. It's Boudreau and Shantz.

They point out that there's a batting helmet (which looks like an Atlanta A, not an Athletics A, doesn't it?), interesting since it's the first year batting helmets were required.
   43. Hysterical & Useless Posted: February 07, 2019 at 07:19 PM (#5813499)
The smaller guy in the photo looks a bit like Bobby Shantz, who was on the As from 49 through 56.


ETA: shoulda refreshed the dang page. That's what happens when you break for dinner in the middle of an exciting Dugout.
   44. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:11 AM (#5813578)
Aha! The Smithsonian knows about these pictures. It's Boudreau and Shantz.


Thank you! Much appreciated.
   45. jeffy Posted: February 08, 2019 at 03:18 AM (#5813580)
Re #13 - the KC Athletic on the right side of the photo is unquestionably Bobby Shantz (who is now 93 years old).
   46. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5813649)
Indiana just legalized Sunday beer sales (in stores) this past year.


I'm assuming you mean a regular ol' grocery store -- Kroger, Safeway, Giant-Eagle, etc.

Here in Jersey, they don't see beer in grocery stores at all; you have to go to a liquor store.
   47. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5813657)
The Hall of Famer whom I first saw play is almost certainly Gary Carter, although I don't remember that much of the baseball I watched as a toddler.

The first games I have specific memories of are the 1991 playoffs which would mean it's Tom Glavine, John Smoltz or Kirby Puckett (I guess Jack Morris is a HoFer now too). I know I watched the NLCS and not sure about AL, so it's probably Glavine.

The first player inducted that I know I watched was Nolan Ryan.
   48. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:57 AM (#5813658)
Eerily enough, BDC and I were having a convo today about milestones and one of the questions he had was about 1st inducted HOFer that you saw.


My first 2 in-person MLB games featured 3 HoFers in the lineup (4 if you count a manager), and another 2 SPs who didn't play those days:

ATL @ NYM, July '73

Willie Mays
Henry Aaron
(Yogi Berra)

Tom Seaver

CAL @ NYY, August '73
Frank Robinson

Nolan Ryan

They also featured 2 pennant winning Mets managers as opposition starting second basemen:
Davey Johnson (ATL)
Bobby Valentine (CAL)
   49. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:27 AM (#5813681)
   47. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5813657)
The Hall of Famer whom I first saw play is almost certainly Gary Carter, although I don't remember that much of the baseball I watched as a toddler.


Mine was likely Yaz, Rice, or Fisk, but they were all inducted after Aaron, Gibson, and FRobby.
   50. SoSH U at work Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:29 AM (#5813682)
ATL @ NYM, July '73

Willie Mays
Henry Aaron
(Yogi Berra)


That was my first game. Mine was the Don Hahn-George Theodore collision game. Interestingly, neither Hank (PH) nor Willie (replaced Hahn) started.
   51. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5813683)
Here in Jersey, they don't see beer in grocery stores at all; you have to go to a liquor store.


Ditto RI. CT allows beer in supermarkets, by no wine or hard stuff. I was surprised that MA allows beer sales at gas stations. CT doesn't, AFAICT, but I've seen some convenience stores that somehow skirt that rule.
   52. Nasty Nate Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5813685)
I was surprised that MA allows beer sales at gas stations. CT doesn't, AFAICT, but I've seen some convenience stores that somehow skirt that rule.
It's rare in Massachusetts for gas stations or convenience stores to sell beer. I don't know what the rule is.
   53. 185/456(GGC) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5813690)
When I worked in East Providence, I'd gas up in Seekonk and there was a Mobil off of I-195 that sold beer.
   54. AndrewJ Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5813723)
The first MLB game I ever saw in person, a Dodgers/Padres game in 1978, had five HOF players (plus a HOF manager, a HOF coach and a HOF ump).

The Phillies/Cardinals game I saw a year later had Lou Brock, who entered the HOF in 1985. So he's the earliest inductee I saw play in person.
   55. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5813725)
The first MLB game I ever saw in person, a Dodgers/Padres game in 1978, had five HOF players (plus a HOF manager, a HOF coach and a HOF ump).


Not going to try to guess the coach, but the rest:

Dave Winfield
Gaylord Perry
Ozzie Smith
Rollie Fingers
Don Sutton
Tommy Lasorda
Doug Harvey


   56. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5813727)
ATL @ NYM, July '73

Willie Mays
Henry Aaron
(Yogi Berra)



That was my first game. Mine was the Don Hahn-George Theodore collision game. Interestingly, neither Hank (PH) nor Willie (replaced Hahn) started
.


This was the night before, I think. Ron Schueler took a no-hitter into the 9th, broken up by Ed Kranepool.
   57. Nasty Nate Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5813728)
When I worked in East Providence, I'd gas up in Seekonk and there was a Mobil off of I-195 that sold beer.
Yeah, there are some.

But it's a big contrast from Maine, where it seems like every gas station is also a liquor store, hardware store, restaurant, etc...
   58. AndrewJ Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5813730)
A Coke to Misirlou in #55. All correct. And the coach was the Padres' Billy Herman.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Harry Balsagne
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogFINAL REGULAR SEASON OMNICHATTER! for September 27 thru Game 162!
(49 - 9:59pm, Sep 28)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogNew York Mets Embark on Branding Effort to Build Cred and Win Young Fans
(25 - 9:29pm, Sep 28)
Last: reech

NewsblogNBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread
(4663 - 9:17pm, Sep 28)
Last: smileyy

NewsblogThe Cardinals’ Impressive Winning Streak Doesn’t Guarantee October Success
(18 - 8:03pm, Sep 28)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(14218 - 7:29pm, Sep 28)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogThe Giants Capitalize on the First Pitch
(4 - 7:16pm, Sep 28)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Transfer! Kits! Other Stuff!
(322 - 6:08pm, Sep 28)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogShohei Ohtani, on future with Los Angeles Angels: 'I want to win'
(28 - 5:34pm, Sep 28)
Last: John Northey

NewsblogArizona Diamondbacks give manager Torey Lovullo one-year extension despite 104-loss season
(12 - 5:33pm, Sep 28)
Last: Jack Sommers

NewsblogBrother HRs off brother for first time since '75
(15 - 5:28pm, Sep 28)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogBaseball’s Wall Street-Style Executives Get Titles to Match
(1 - 4:37pm, Sep 28)
Last: winnipegwhip

NewsblogTB progressing with Montreal Sister City plan
(55 - 2:38pm, Sep 28)
Last: Jay Seaver

NewsblogWhy Detroit Tigers, Chicago White Sox stormed the field: 'It wasn't intentional'
(9 - 1:28pm, Sep 28)
Last: zenstudent

NewsblogYus Your Illusion: Yusmeiro Petit and the Well-Hidden Power of Pitcher Deception
(1 - 12:59pm, Sep 28)
Last: CFBF's Results are Certified

Hall of Merit2022 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(184 - 12:06pm, Sep 28)
Last: Dr. Chaleeko

Page rendered in 0.5017 seconds
48 querie(s) executed