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Tuesday, May 25, 2021

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-25-2021

Pittsburgh Press, May 25, 1921:

When the season opened, [Cleveland owner Jim Dunn] announced that patrons of the Indians’ park could keep as souvenirs all balls fouled into the stands.

All went well for a time, but the other day, during a game with Boston, McInnis hit a ground ball that went so close to third base that it was difficult to decide whether it was fair or foul…Umpire Nailin ruled it foul. A dozen or more boys and men, however, did not care whether it was foul or fair…when it bounded into left field the ball hunters pursued it, having a wrestling match in the sun garden for its possession.
...
When Elmer Smith hit a high foul fly to right in the following inning, a boy made an effort to catch it just as Right Fielder Leibold also was making a super-effort to do the same thing.
...
Now Dunn says that, unless the fans stop this sort of thing he will recall his original offer, and order the arrest of the first offender who takes a baseball.

When I was a kid, my dad and I had season tickets for the indoor soccer teams in Cleveland and Canton. We had an understanding - if one of us was in the arena concourse and the ball found its way out there, we’d grab the ball and immediately run to the car. The other, upon noticing that the ball hadn’t been thrown back and the other person hadn’t returned, would head to the car and we’d make a getaway.

This has nothing to do with baseball, but I had forgotten about it until just now. It never actually happened, but we were ready for our heist if the opportunity had arisen.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 25, 2021 at 08:39 AM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 25, 2021 at 08:41 AM (#6020718)
A good Birthday Team is made even better by the presence of one of the greatest two-way players in baseball history.

C: Glenn Borgmann (5.6 WAR)
1B: Joe Judge (47.1 WAR)
2B/SP: Martin Dihigo (0 WAR)
3B: Dave Hollins (17.8 WAR)
SS: Miguel Tejada (47.1 WAR)
LF: Jason Kubel (4.1 WAR)
CF: Lip Pike (14.3 WAR)
RF: Scott Hairston (6.5 WAR)

SP: Bob Knepper (21.8 WAR)
SP: John Montefusco (19.9 WAR)
SP/center/GM: Chris Young (17.5 WAR)
SP: Bob Wicker (9.7 WAR)
RP: Don Liddle (5.0 WAR)

2B when Dihigo pitches: Todd Walker (10.5 WAR)
Manager: Jim Marshall
League President: Gene Budig
Umpires: Kerwin Danley, Adrian Johnson
Announcer: Lindsey Nelson
Beater of meat: Randall Simon
Fun name: Will Pennyfeather
Not that one or that one: Bobby Brown
Writer: W.P. Kinsella
   2. sanny manguillen Posted: May 25, 2021 at 09:15 AM (#6020722)
Fun name Will Pennyfeather got 46 at-bats with the Pirates in 1992-94. On the way out, he played in the Atlantic League every year 1998-2006, amassing almost 3500 plate appearances.
   3. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 25, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6020747)
Joe Judge spent many years as the Senators' first baseman, but was eventually replaced by Joe Kuhel. The two are each other's #1 match on the Similarity Score chart.
   4. EddieA Posted: May 25, 2021 at 02:44 PM (#6020755)
Joe Judge, 5'8" 155 first baseman that hardly played anywhere else. I guess 100 years ago 5'8" is today's 6 feet.
   5. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2021 at 03:39 PM (#6020768)
Joe Judge played 20 years, 17 with the Washington Senators. His 47.0 W.A.R. is 2nd only to Sam Rice (52.9) among Washington, DC position players.
   6. Walt Davis Posted: May 25, 2021 at 11:49 PM (#6020849)
#3: That is pretty neat.

From 1916-30, the Sens had pretty much just Judge play 1B to the tune of 8455 PAs.
From 1931-45, the Sens had pretty much just Kuhel play 1B to the tune of 8736 PAs.

That's 30 years with two guys, total about 75 WAR between them. DiMaggio-Mantle covered 1936-64 in CF (both around 7600 PA) excepting the war years and Mantle missing most of 63. There must be some other doubles (triples?) covering the same posiiton for the same team for a very long time but they aren't springing to mind.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: May 26, 2021 at 12:28 AM (#6020851)
There must be some other doubles (triples?) covering the same posiiton for the same team for a very long time but they aren't springing to mind.


Williams-Yaz-Rice in left for the Sox, a straight shot from 1940 to 1987, with only Teddy Ballgame's service years excluded. Somewhere well north of 200 WAR for the position.

Edit: And, though a lesser figure, you can toss in Greenwell, the fourth straight to handle the position who never played anywhere else and who took the run to 1995 while adding another 25 WAR.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: May 26, 2021 at 01:40 AM (#6020861)
Minor but possibly disqualifying, quibble: Yaz was mostly 1B (and 3B!) in 70, 73 and 74 while Rice didn't take over LF until 75. Of course 1940-70 or 72 is already extremely impressive. But just 15 starts in LF in 73. How did I not know Yaz got 32 starts at 3B in 1973? Of course I didn't look in detail at the other two examples, I just noticed that Yaz had those 1B years. The Red Sox run is plenty amazing regardless of how much of that run we decide qualifies.

1973 was Tommy Harper's other big year (4.8 WAR) and he got 138 LF starts. Interestingly enough, Harper had 257 starts at 3B before getting to Boston but they still preferred Yaz at 3B for those 32 starts.

Anyway, part of what makes Judge-Kuhel so "intriguing" is that both were good but not great players.

   9. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 26, 2021 at 01:52 AM (#6020865)
Edit: And, though a lesser figure, you can toss in Greenwell, the fourth straight to handle the position who never played anywhere else
I could have sworn Greenwell had at least a few games with the Reds, but BBRef has no stats other than with the Sox, and no transaction record of the Reds ever signing him. Am I delusional?
   10. Gch Posted: May 26, 2021 at 03:22 AM (#6020868)
Greenwell was an interim hitting coach for the Reds in 2001, that might be what you were remembering?
   11. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 26, 2021 at 03:27 AM (#6020869)
duplicate
   12. AndrewJ Posted: May 26, 2021 at 03:13 PM (#6020971)
Will Pennyfeather is also the most recent Syracuse alum in the bigs; the school dropped its D-1 team about 50 years ago. With the exceptions of Jim Konstanty and Dave Giusti, SU alums have pretty much flopped in major league play and they're far better represented in the broadcast booth, the press box and (in the case of Jefferson Burdick) the card collecting department.
   13. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: May 26, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6020980)
Pennyfeather has been a running joke in our family as the card that the kids always got in a pack. For me it was Reno Bertoia and Foster Castleman, who in retrospect were far more “accomplished “ than Will.
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 26, 2021 at 03:51 PM (#6020984)
Greenwell was an interim hitting coach for the Reds in 2001, that might be what you were remembering?
Maybe? I have an amazing ability to recall useless information (inversely proportional to my ability to remember useful information), but I have no idea why that would have entered my brain, let alone stuck in there somewhere.
   15. Walt Davis Posted: May 26, 2021 at 06:34 PM (#6021020)
It's called Google people!

Greenwell tried to come back with Reds AA as player-coach.
   16. Sweatpants Posted: May 26, 2021 at 07:50 PM (#6021040)
Crawford-Heilmann with the Tigers is a transition from HOFer to HOFer at right field, going from 1903 through 1929, but both guys spent seasons away from RF. For the Tigers' three straight pennants, it was Crawford who played CF and Cobb RF. Heilmann spent a few seasons at first base as he was getting settled in the bigs.

Brooks Robinson was replaced as the Orioles' starting 3B by Doug DeCinces, who gave them a nice six-year run. That took them from 1958 through 1981, although obviously that's not really similar to Kuhel-Judge.
   17. sanny manguillen Posted: May 26, 2021 at 11:35 PM (#6021063)
The Pirates had Max Carey in center from 1916, Kiki Cuyler for a couple years in the mid-twenties, then Lloyd Waner through the 30s.
   18. Eddo Posted: May 27, 2021 at 09:08 AM (#6021093)
There must be some other doubles (triples?) covering the same posiiton for the same team for a very long time but they aren't springing to mind.

The White Sox have had Frank Thomas, Paul Konerko, and Jose Abreu start at 1B on opening day from 1991 through 2021, with a single exception (Greg Norton(!!!) in 1998, though Thomas was in at DH that day).

EDIT: Thomas played only 14 games at 1B that year; Norton played 79 and Wil Cordero(!!!) played 83.

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