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Monday, May 04, 2020

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-4-2020

Pittsburgh Gazette Times, May 4, 1920:

Boston and Brooklyn went into the nineteenth inning [yesterday] before Boeckel’s single scored Sullivan with the run which gave Boston a 2 to 1 victory. Fillingim and Smith pitched all the way and honors were practically even until Smith weakened in the nineteenth.

[Yesterday’s] game, following the 26-inning tie between Brooklyn and Boston on Saturday and Brooklyn’s 13-inning game with Philadelphia yesterday gave Brooklyn the new major league record of 58 innings played in three successive games. The previous record was 45 innings played by Pittsburgh and Brooklyn in 1917.

I guess I knew the Dodgers had set this record, but I was today years old when I learned that there was a one-game series against Philadelphia in the middle of the three games.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 04, 2020 at 10:44 AM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: May 04, 2020 at 10:50 AM (#5947319)
espn has an agreement to air KBO games, starting tomorrow. (they will be live, not tape delay)
the little bit of korean ball i've gotten to watch has been fun; looking forward to this.
   2. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 04, 2020 at 10:56 AM (#5947325)
Today's Birthday Team has a horrible pitching staff that will be made worse by second baseman Piano Legs Hickman, a hilariously awful defensive player who once committed 86 errors in a season as a third baseman. They might be better off with Matt Tolbert at second full-time, but either way it's a bad team with a bad second baseman.

C: Eddie Perez (1.8 WAR)
1B: Vic Saier (15.2 WAR)
2B/SP: Charlie Hickman (24.8 WAR)
SS: Miguel Cairo (7.7 WAR)
3B: Ken Oberkfell (22.4 WAR)
LF: Ben Grieve (8.4 WAR)
CF: Jason Michaels (5.6 WAR)
RF: Jack Tobin (20.5 WAR)

SP: Kevin Slowey (4.4 WAR)
SP: Sam LeCure (2.6 WAR)
SP: John Tsitouris (1.1 WAR)
SP: Howie Koplitz (0.7 WAR)
RP: Joe Borowski (3.6 WAR)

Manager: Rene Lachemann
Umpires: Tim Tschida, John Tumpane, Fred Spenn
2B when Hickman pitches: Matt Tolbert (0.8 WAR)
Quarterback/Bench outfielder: Rick Leach (3.0 WAR)
Fun names: John Malarkey, Harl Maggert, Flip Lafferty, Zip Collins, Ox Miller, Robinson Cancel
Not that one: Ted Turner
   3. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:34 AM (#5947344)
3B: Ken Oberkfell (22.4 WAR)

Since WWII, eighteen players have accumulated at least 20 career bWAR while hitting fewer than 30 career homers.

The 1983 Cardinal infield featured three of these players, with Oberkfell at third, Ozzie at SS, and Tom Herr at 2b.

Anyone care to guess who the other guys are with 20+ bWAR, <30 homers since WWII?

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM ___________
15 20.6 NYM ___________
15 22.8 PHI ___________
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL ___________
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD ___________
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI ___________
28 29.1 MIA ___________
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI ___________
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell
   4. eric Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:42 AM (#5947348)
Richie Ashburn? Rey Ordonez?
   5. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:43 AM (#5947350)
Richie Ashburn? Rey Ordonez?

Yes on Ashburn, but wrong Rey.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM ___________
15 20.6 NYM ___________
15 22.8 PHI ___________
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL ___________
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD ___________
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI ___________
28 29.1 MIA ___________
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell
   6. eric Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:44 AM (#5947352)
Appling?
   7. eric Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:45 AM (#5947353)
Er, Rey Sanchez?
   8. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:46 AM (#5947354)
deleted
   9. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:47 AM (#5947356)
Appling?

Er, Rey Sanchez?


Yes on both. I saw "Rey" in the list, assumed it was Ordonez, and originally had the player as a Met instead of a Cub.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM ___________
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI ___________
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL ___________
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD ___________
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI ___________
28 29.1 MIA ___________
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell

   10. Nasty Nate Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:49 AM (#5947357)
Vince Coleman?
Mark Belanger?
Adam Kennedy?
   11. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:50 AM (#5947358)
Vince Coleman?
Mark Belanger?
Adam Kennedy?

Yes on Belanger.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM ___________
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI ___________
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD ___________
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI ___________
28 29.1 MIA ___________
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell
   12. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:52 AM (#5947360)
The guy listed as primarily a LA Angel was technically a "California Angel."
   13. crict Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:54 AM (#5947362)
Juan Pierre?
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:55 AM (#5947363)
Luis Castillo?
   15. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:56 AM (#5947365)
Juan Pierre?

Luis Castillo?

No on Pierre, yes on Castillo.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM ___________
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI ___________
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD ___________
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI ___________
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell
   16. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:59 AM (#5947366)
"Name"-wise, the most obscure of the remaining guys is the Phillie (for whom he was a 3-time all star) with 21 homers; he also was a starting 2B for three other franchises, and for a while, held the single-season MLB record for AB in a season.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 11:59 AM (#5947367)
Larry Bowa? (not in response to 16, obviously)
   18. crict Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:00 PM (#5947369)
Maury Wills for the Dodgers?
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:01 PM (#5947370)
16 - Dave Cash?
   20. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:01 PM (#5947371)
The Oakland player may be a bit obscure as well.
   21. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:02 PM (#5947372)
Yes on Bowa, Wills and Dave Cash.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM ___________
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell
   22. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:04 PM (#5947374)
The old-time Dodger isn't the first guy people think of from those teams, but his name is well-known due to his presence as both a player and a manager.
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:04 PM (#5947375)
"Name"-wise, the most obscure of the remaining guys is the Phillie (for whom he was a 3-time all star) with 21 homers; he also was a starting 2B for three other franchises, and for a while, held the single-season MLB record for AB in a season.
I thought this was describing Juan Samuel!
   24. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:06 PM (#5947376)
The other obscure player might be the career .300 hitter and former batting champion and MVP runner-up from the Red Sox.
   25. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:07 PM (#5947377)
I thought this was describing Juan Samuel!

I think Samuel broke his record for AB, becoming the first player to get 700 (Cash had 699).
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:11 PM (#5947382)
David Eckstein?
   27. SoSH U at work Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:12 PM (#5947383)
Bud Harrelson?

   28. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:14 PM (#5947384)
David Eckstein?
Harrelson

No on Eckstein, and Yes! Bud Harrelson is the leader of the list, with just 7 career homers.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM Bud Harrelson
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK ___________
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell
   29. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:17 PM (#5947386)
I assume there's also an honorary "Ichiro if he wanted to" spot.
   30. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:18 PM (#5947387)
The Boston players were teammates, and on occasion (though rarely) batted 1-2 in the order.
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:19 PM (#5947388)
Oooh! Bill North for OAK?
   32. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:21 PM (#5947389)
Oooh! Bill North for OAK?

YES on North.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM Bud Harrelson
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS ___________
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK Bill North
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell

   33. Sweatpants Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:24 PM (#5947395)
The other obscure player might be the career .300 hitter and former batting champion and MVP runner-up from the Red Sox.
This has to be Billy Goodman.
   34. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:26 PM (#5947400)
The Angel and White Sock were more or less contemporaries during their primes.

In his only postseason series, the Angel hit a homer that helped put his team up 2-1 in the series, which they would lose in dramatic fashion.
   35. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:28 PM (#5947402)
This has to be Billy Goodman.

Yes on Goodman. In 1950 Goodman led the AL in batting at .354, and finished second to Phil Rizzuto for AL MVP despite having just 2.7 bWAR.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM Bud Harrelson
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS ___________
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS Billy Goodman
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK Bill North
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA ___________
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell


   36. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:33 PM (#5947406)
Three of the four remaining players were also managers.

EDIT: One of whom won the World Series.
   37. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:35 PM (#5947410)
The other is on the short list (some people's, anyway) of the best all-time defenders at his position.
   38. Nasty Nate Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:39 PM (#5947414)
15 27.7 BOS ___________
I believe he should also get the (totals for post WWII only) disclaimer.
   39. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:39 PM (#5947415)
One of the players had a less-than-flattering nickname resulting from his "combative" personality.
   40. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:40 PM (#5947416)
The Angel has to be from 1986, and combining that with 37, that would be Gary Pettis?
   41. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:41 PM (#5947417)
I believe he should also get the (totals for post WWII only) disclaimer.

True---I hadn't realized he began that early, with his first season coming before 1945.
   42. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:42 PM (#5947418)
IThe Angel has to be from 1986, and combining that with 37, that would be Gary Pettis?

That would be true.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM Bud Harrelson
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS Billy Goodman
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK Bill North
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA Gary Pettis
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX ___________
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell



   43. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5947419)
Ozzie Guillen for the White Sox?
   44. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5947420)
Johnny Pesky?
   45. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:45 PM (#5947423)
Johnny Pesky?
Really should have been a nickname.
   46. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:45 PM (#5947424)
Ozzie Guillen for the White Sox?
Johnny Pesky?


Yes, and yes.

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM Bud Harrelson
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS Johnny Pesky (totals for post WWII only)
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS Billy Goodman
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK Bill North
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA Gary Pettis
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX Ozzie Guillen
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell


   47. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:48 PM (#5947425)
When the last guy was fired in his first managerial job after 3-plus seasons, the team owner said he “decided that (name) was too much foam and not enough body.”
   48. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5947428)
29 38.9 BRK ___________ (totals for post WWII only)

Eddie Stanky
   49. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5947430)
The last guy's last managerial "gig" was as an interim manager after Frank Lucchesi was replaced the season he was attacked by Lenny Randle.
   50. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:52 PM (#5947431)
Eddie Stanky

Yes, "The Brat."

Thanks folks, that completes this random list!

Career Homers/bWAR/primary team/player
07 20.3 NYM Bud Harrelson
15 20.6 CHC Rey Sanchez
15 22.8 PHI Larry Bowa
15 27.7 BOS Johnny Pesky (totals for post WWII only)
15 20.6 CSX Luke Appling (totals for post WWII only)
19 27.0 BOS Billy Goodman
20 40.9 BAL Mark Belanger
20 26.8 OAK Bill North
20 29.8 LAD Maury Wills
21 22.0 LAA Gary Pettis
21 25.6 PHI Dave Cash
28 29.1 MIA Luis Castillo
28 76.9 STL Ozzie Smith
28 23.5 STL Tommy Herr
28 20.9 CSX Ozzie Guillen
29 64.4 PHI Richie Ashburn
29 38.9 BRK Eddie Stanky (totals for post WWII only)
29 22.4 STL Ken Oberkfell

   51. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:54 PM (#5947432)
I was able to triangulate in on the last guy by eliminating all the position players on the postwar Dodgers teams that had some pop, leaving only one position remaining. When I looked up that position, I immediately recognized the name and why he would be on this list, but I didn't associate him with the Dodgers - and in fairness, he played a minority of his seasons with them, although a plurality.
   52. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:57 PM (#5947433)
the team owner said he “decided that Stanky was too much foam and not enough body.”

The quote is from Gussie Busch after Stanky was fired from the Cardinals in 1955.
   53. salvomania Posted: May 04, 2020 at 12:59 PM (#5947435)
I didn't associate him with the Dodgers

Stanky is one of those guys who I don't really associate with one team, altough if I did it might be with the Cardinals, as a manager.
   54. Mayor Blomberg Posted: May 04, 2020 at 01:09 PM (#5947439)
Great quote; should have applied the same calculus to his other product.
   55. JJ1986 Posted: May 04, 2020 at 08:03 PM (#5947620)
Trevor Plouffe, newsbreaker, is still weird to me.
   56. Adam Starblind Posted: May 05, 2020 at 08:28 AM (#5947762)
I assume there's also an honorary "Ichiro if he wanted to" spot.


I watched a Youtube video recently that showed pretty convincingly that the legend of Ichiro's batting practice homers is quite true--he routinely would square up on the first pitch of his BP session and pull it for a home run. Now, the ability of a left-handed major leaguer to deposit a BP fastball into the right field stands says next to nothing about his in-game power tool, but I did find it interesting.

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