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Friday, June 07, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 6-7-2019

Pittsburgh Gazette Times, June 7, 1919:

Hundreds of followers of the Pirates who regretted when Bob Harmon left the team in midseason of last year wondered why Bob took the sudden step. The secret, or at least part of it is out now.

Hickory Bob, in the parlance of the speculator, “cleaned up” about $25,000 in Louisiana Oil since he shook the dust of the National League from his 10-second feet.

I don’t know how Harmon did during the rest of his time in the oil business, but I know he retired at age 30 while he was still pretty good, and I know he never threw another professional pitch. So it must have gone okay for him.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: June 07, 2019 at 10:04 AM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: June 07, 2019 at 10:05 AM (#5849317)
Today's Birthday Team. I sure don't want to be the guy to tell Munson he's playing right field and Tim Laudner is catching.

C: Tim Laudner (3.2 WAR)
1B: George Mitterwald (6.1 WAR)
2B: Don Money (36.5 WAR)
3B: Phil Reccius (-0.3 WAR)
SS: Bones Ely (7.2 WAR)
LF: Roberto Petagine (0.0 WAR)
CF: Chris Richard (1.8 WAR)
RF: Thurman Munson (46.1 WAR)

SP: Herb Score (13.4 WAR)
SP: Roger Nelson (9.8 WAR)
SP: Gene Thompson (7.2 WAR)
SP: Ed Wells (7.0 WAR)
SP: Vince Velasquez (5.2 WAR)
RP: Heathcliff Slocumb (5.5 WAR)

Fun name: Esix Snead
Slugger in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame: Shinjiro Iguchi
Umpires: Bill Hohn, Dusty Boggess
Writers: Bill Farnsworth, Les Biederman
   2. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: June 07, 2019 at 10:14 AM (#5849321)
I sure don't want to be the guy to tell Munson he's playing right field and Tim Laudner is catching.


I remember well the 13-game stretch in '78 when Thurman played right and Mike Heath caught. Yankees went 8-5 and fired Billy Martin. Good times...
   3. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 07, 2019 at 10:24 AM (#5849325)
At the time he died, Munson had been playing first base over the previous week. Chris Chambliss apparently got hurt during the Yankees game on July 26, 1979, being replaced at first base by utility infielder Fred Stanley. On July 29, Billy Martin started Munson at first with Jerry Narron behind the plate, and then again on July 30. On July 31, Munson DH'd, with Jim Spencer and first and Narron again catching. On August 1, Munson played first base again and Narron caught. On August 2, Munson died.

I don't know exactly what was going on there - Munson may have had some slight injury that kept him from catching. Or maybe Billy decided he couldn't catch any more. I just pieced that together from the box scores, so if anyone knows more, please let me know.
   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 07, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5849330)
I remember well the 13-game stretch in '78 when Thurman played right and Mike Heath caught. Yankees went 8-5 and fired Billy Martin.


This was after the famous "One's a born liar, and the other's convicted" incident, after which Martin technically resigned, although he probably would have been fired if he hadn't.

What's fascinating is that Dick Howser took over as interim manager for one game, and again started Munson in right field, where he'd been for the previous two weeks. Then Bob Lemon took over, and also played Munson in right field in his first two games as manager. Not till Lemon's third game did Munson go back behind the plate - and never played another inning in right field for the rest of his career.

   5. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: June 07, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5849333)
I don't know exactly what was going on there - Munson may have had some slight injury that kept him from catching. Or maybe Billy decided he couldn't catch any more. I just pieced that together from the box scores, so if anyone knows more, please let me know.


I know it was said in '78 that he had some kind of cyst behind one of his knees that made squatting extremely painful -- that was the rationale for the whole right field experiment, as detailed in Sparky Lyle's book The Bronx Zoo. Well, that and the fact that Martin wanted Reggie Jackson to DH exclusively...if he was in the lineup at all.

Maybe it recurred in '79; I don't really remember.
   6. Itchy Row Posted: June 07, 2019 at 11:39 AM (#5849352)
A New York Times article (might require a password) from July 27, 1979 says this:
It was Munson, however, who posed the most bothersome problem for the Yankees. The catcher has a chronically sore right knee and he aggravated it when he fell Tuesday night. He hag missed, the last two games and no one knows when he will be able to catch again.

“From what the doctor told me,” Martin said, “he won't be able to catch fora while. If I can afford to, I'd like to rest him for about a week, but I don't know if I can do that.”

Munson's problem occurs primarily when he catches because he has to get up and down so frequently. Martin could ease the stress by using Munson as the designated hitter, which he will probably do at times.


Just noticed that Murray Chass wrote it. The Yankees were having injury problems- Munson, Chris Chambliss, Jim Spencer, Willie Randolph, and Mickey Rivers were all hurt.
   7. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 07, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5849371)
LF: Roberto Petagine (0.0 WAR)


So he really was replacement level after all!
   8. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5849377)
TRIVIA QUESTION:
From 2010-18, only two players had enough PA to qualify for the batting title every year. One is Andrew McCutchen, who is out for this year and thus will have his streak snapped this year. Thus, who is the only person in MLB who has a chance to qualify for the batting title every year of this decade?

(I'm stealing this from someone in the lounge; don't remember who - sorry to that person!)
   9. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:14 PM (#5849379)
I got it.

EDIT: Wait, I didn't get it. Very close though.
   10. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5849380)
I'm guessing Ian Kinsler.

EDIT: Also very close, but wrong.
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5849381)
In a related trivia question, there might be only 2 SPs who have qualified for the ERA title in each of those years.
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5849382)
And, now I got it.
   13. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5849384)
I'm guessing Ian Kinsler.

EDIT: Also very close, but wrong.


But, like Kinsler, the answer has joined a team in the NL West this year.
   14. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5849385)
I think Jon Lester would have to be one of the ERA title qualifiers.

   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5849386)
In a related trivia question, there might be only 2 SPs who have qualified for the ERA title in each of those years.
Are there any?? Verlander missed in 2015.
   16. Kiko Sakata Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5849387)
From 2010-18, only two players had enough PA to qualify for the batting title every year. One is Andrew McCutchen, who is out for this year and thus will have his streak snapped this year. Thus, who is the only person in MLB who has a chance to qualify for the batting title every year of this decade?


Ben Zobrist missed this by 6 PA in 2017. Like McCutchen he will also fall short in 2019 (probably by about 400 PA if, as is being speculated, he doesn't come back this season).
   17. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5849388)
But, like Kinsler, the answer has joined a team in the NL West this year.

Adam Jones.
   18. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5849389)
LF: Roberto Petagine (0.0 WAR)


So he really was replacement level after all!


Petagine feels like one of the great "what if" stories of mlb. Never given a real chance to start in the majors, even though he crushed AAA year after year. Goes to Japan and from age 28-33 hits something like .315/.442/.620. Comes back to the States, crushes AAA at Pawtucket and is given almost no chance by the Red Sox. He could have been Joey Votto or Edgar Martinez, maybe...

AA career: .960 OPS
AAA career: 1.002 OPS
Japan career: 1.051 OPS
   19. Nasty Nate Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5849390)
 14. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5849385)
I think Jon Lester would have to be one of the ERA title qualifiers.

   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5849386)
In a related trivia question, there might be only 2 SPs who have qualified for the ERA title in each of those years.
Are there any?? Verlander missed in 2015.
Lester did it. At least one other did, maybe more.
   20. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5849391)
Adam Jones.

DING!
   21. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5849392)
Oh, I was thinking about Justin Upton - he qualified from 2010-2018, so I misunderstood the "still has a chance this year" requirement. Sez here he's on the IL until at least the end of June with turf toe (don't the Angels play on grass??), so he's probably out of the running.
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5849393)
Here's the thread from the winter of 2005 when the Sox signed him.

Interesting post unrelated to Petagine:
55. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: February 09, 2005 at 06:31 AM (#1133811)
Dammit Theo you signed the wrong player from Japan.

MATSUZAKA! MATSUZAKA! His name starts with a M. M. Not P! This guy you signed isn't even JAPANESE! HE'S WHITE!!! YOU DOUCHE!@#$
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:34 PM (#5849396)
Lester did it. At least one other did, maybe more.
Found another guy (assuming I'm remembering correctly that 162 innings is the threshold). The 2 unnamed guys were teammates for part of it.
   24. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5849400)
Was Scherzer starting by 2010? I think he would be on the list.

Verlander would have been a guess, but I see someone mentioned he already missed.
   25. Nasty Nate Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5849401)
Yes Scherzer
   26. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:43 PM (#5849403)
Greinke?
   27. Itchy Row Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5849404)
Alcides Escobar qualified for the batting title every year from 2010-2018. He's been hitting pretty well in Triple A but hasn't appeared in the major leagues this year.
   28. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 07, 2019 at 01:50 PM (#5849406)
Not Greinke. His first year in AZ he missed by 3.1 ip.
   29. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 07, 2019 at 02:10 PM (#5849409)
Alcides Escobar qualified for the batting title every year from 2010-2018. He's been hitting pretty well in Triple A but hasn't appeared in the major leagues this year.

Now that would have been a stumper. How was he an All-Star in 2015?

EDIT: Never mind, fan vote. I forgot that the Royals fans were stuffing the boxes for a couple of years there.
   30. SandyRiver Posted: June 07, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5849424)
Petagine feels like one of the great "what if" stories of mlb. Never given a real chance to start in the majors, even though he crushed AAA year after year. Goes to Japan and from age 28-33 hits something like .315/.442/.620. Comes back to the States, crushes AAA at Pawtucket and is given almost no chance by the Red Sox. He could have been Joey Votto or Edgar Martinez, maybe...

Not so sure about the boldface. It was Petagine's age-34 season, and after the crushing of AAA thru July, the Sox called him up and he played maybe 1/3 of the time in August. Then in September they chose to play 36-yr-old John Olerud, who hit about the same (OPS+ 107 vs. Petagine's 109) but was probably the better fielder. Not much room at DH, either. Next year he put up OPS+ of 72 with the Mariners, in about the same limited chance, and was gone. If he had Votto/Martinez potential, seems like he'd have shown more of it before crossing the Pacific.
   31. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 07, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5849440)
The 2 unnamed guys were teammates for part of it.

G-g-g-io!!
   32. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 07, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5849443)
Looks like Petagine was blocked before at 1B by Olerud in 1997 with the Mets. He was really crushing AAA (31 Hrs), but lack of DH in NL must've limited his call-up opportunities.
   33. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 07, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5849444)
Petagine was given 36 PA by the Red Sox. I would consider that "almost no chance".

His last MLB opportunity before Japan was 79 PA with the Reds. He hit 258/405/468 with a redonkulous 16:11 BB:K ratio.

   34. Nasty Nate Posted: June 07, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5849448)
The 2 unnamed guys were teammates for part of it.


G-g-g-io!!
Nope, almost. It is Ricky Porcello.
   35. SandyRiver Posted: June 07, 2019 at 04:28 PM (#5849460)
Petagine was given 36 PA by the Red Sox. I would consider that "almost no chance".

Sure, maybe they could have called him up before August, but they already had 2 other mid-30s at 1B, Olerud and Millar. They could've been hoping for a Sam Horn/Mike Chavis arrival, 2 months of pop before the pitchers would find the holes in his swing. Instead, he hit about like Millar and Olerud had been doing, while fieldling like Millar but not as well as Olerud.
   36. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 07, 2019 at 06:07 PM (#5849467)
Seranthony Dominguez is now the 8th Phils reliever on the IL. He may need Tommy John surgery. You'd have thought that they would have been in on Kimbrel and/or Keuchel -- the sense in the media here is that they weren't very interested in either one.
   37. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 07, 2019 at 07:12 PM (#5849476)
That AAA Mets club Petagine was with was also in a big time pitcher’s park; he could definitely hit (and was a solid fielder when younger, imo).
He likely would have come back to MLB earlier, but was pretty highly paid in NPB.
   38. Walt Davis Posted: June 07, 2019 at 09:41 PM (#5849505)
Hamels misses by 14 innings in 2017. Top 10 in IP for 2010-19, to date:

Verlander, Scherzer, Hamels, Kershaw (a bit surprising), Lester, Greinke, James Shields (!), Price, Felix, Porcello. Porcello likely to pass Felix.

#11 Mike Leake is another surprise candidate, missing by just 24 innings back in 2010 which was his rookie year. He's halfway there this year so might have a shot at 10 straight next year. He and Gio have a shot at passing Felix depending on whether Felix gets back and stays in the rotation.

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