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Tuesday, August 03, 2021

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-3-2021

Ottawa [Illinois] Free Trader-Journal, August 3, 1921:

The seven former White Sox players and two alleged gamblers brought to trial in the base ball scandal today stood leally cleared of any connection with the alleged conspiracy to throw the 1919 world series.

The verdict, freeing Buck Weaver, Happy Felsch, Joe Jackson, Claude Williams, Charles Chick Gandil and Eddie Cicotte—the former players—and Carl Zork of St. Louis and David Zeiser of Des Moines, was returned shortly before midnight amidst a scene of wild cheering, whistling and yelling from 500 spectators…

Commissioner Landis responds:

“Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player that throws a ball game, no player that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game…and dares not tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball.”

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:20 AM | 15 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: black sox, dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:21 AM (#6032480)
A decent Birthday Team today. If you're feeling adventurous and want to try to score more runs to help a shaky pitching staff, Mark Reynolds was known to attempt second base from time to time.

Truth be told, if an actual team wanted to get Reynolds into the lineup instead of Getz, they'd probably slide Elster to second, play Glaus at short, and put Reynolds at third. Glaus was a shortstop in the minors and played 18 MLB games at SS, so he could pull it off in a pinch. Elster only played one MLB game at second, though, so I didn't feel comfortable playing him there.

C: Ed McFarland (20.8 WAR)
1B: Sid Bream (11.1 WAR)
2B: Gus Getz (0.9 WAR)
3B: Troy Glaus (38.1 WAR)
SS: Kevin Elster (6.2 WAR)
LF: Matthew Joyce (14.7 WAR)
CF: Roger Repoz (6.5 WAR)
RF: Harry Heilmann (72.5 WAR)

SP: Jim Gott (10.5 WAR)
SP: Zac Gallen (5.9 WAR)
SP: Milo Candini (5.2 WAR)
SP: Mike Jeffcoat (2.8 WAR)
SP: Blake Stein (2.7 WAR)
RP: Rod Beck (11.3 WAR)
RP/Fun Name: Dick Hyde (5.7 WAR)

-6.4 career WAR: Dan Meyer (-6.4 WAR)
Bench bat: Mark Reynolds (6.8 WAR)
Drafted as a catcher, didn't sign, I'm not sure what happened to him after that: Tom Brady
Fun name: Stub Brown (0.2 WAR)
Manager: Silver Flint (7.8 WAR)
Umpires: Scott Barry, Bob Davidson
   2. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:17 AM (#6032485)
Commissioner Landis responds:

“Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player that throws a ball game, no player that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game…and dares not tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball.”

Commissioner Manfred responds:
“We are pleased to partner with MGM Resorts International, a clear industry leader in the sports gaming area, to work together on bringing innovative experiences to baseball fans and MGM customers. Our partnership with MGM will help us navigate this evolving space responsibly, and we look forward to the fan engagement opportunities ahead.”

Sinclair Broadcasting responds, "Here, hold my beer!":
Betting on games "creates more engagement, and that's what drives value for teams — engaged fans," Chris Ripley, Sinclair's CEO, said in a conference in November to announce the 10-year contract with Bally's. "It's a win-win for everybody."

"The overall vision, of which this is a keystone, is to 'gamify' sports, to make watching sports like playing a video game," Ripley said. "We think this will dramatically increase the attractiveness [of watching games], especially for a younger generation."
   3. bookbook Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:28 AM (#6032488)
Sid Bream accumulated 11 WAR? Wow. I wonder how his WAR/PA would hold up against others with similar totals.
   4. Ron J Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:01 AM (#6032494)
#2 The two need not be in direct conflict (though Bowie Kuhn obviously didn't see it that way).

Basically there's no inherent conflict in encouraging fans to bet while taking a very hard line against players betting on baseball.

And yeah, I get the argument about messages to the players and the potential for the gambling money to get closer to the players. It's at minimum terrible optics.
   5. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:34 AM (#6032515)
Where were you when Sid slid?
   6. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:36 AM (#6032516)
If it were my team, I'd trade Blake Stein for Mark McGwire and make Sid Bream my designated pinch-runner.
   7. Steve N Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:40 AM (#6032518)
To be clear, they were not found innocent of throwing the world series. That was not a crime. They were charged with fraud against the Chicago White Sox.
   8. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:59 PM (#6032568)
Basically there's no inherent conflict in encouraging fans to bet while taking a very hard line against players betting on baseball.

Agreed, and of course that's how the leagues are going to spin it. "We encourage our loyal fans to frequently indulge themselves in the many fun exciting gaming options our trusted Official Gaming Partners™ are bringing to market in an attempt to better fleece the rubes engage with our audience, but you players better stay in line. No fun exciting thrills for you."

There's at least some evidence out there that once you normalize gambling and sports so thoroughly, the results aren't always so clean.

In a study of almost 350 footballers and cricketers conducted by the Professional Players’ Federation (PPF), results suggested sportspeople were three times more likely than the general public to be problem gamblers.

High profile cases of footballers who have struggled with gambling problems include Joey Barton, John Hartson, Keith Gillespie, and Dietmar Hamann. There may be many more who are suffering in silence, perhaps for fear of affecting their careers. And that perhaps hints at why just six per cent of the 170 footballers surveyed by the PPF responded.

One in 10 sportsmen interviewed by the PPF said they gambled to "fit in", one in four said they were encouraged by team-mates to do it, and nearly one in three thought their team's links with the gambling industry "encouraged" them to bet.

Scott Davies, an ex-professional footballer who estimates he lost more than £200,000 to gambling over the course of his career, told us about how he used to bet against his own team at half time.

"I’d come into the changing room, take my phone out of my tracksuit bottoms, and, as soon as the the manager had finished his team talk, I’d put it down my shorts and go sit in a cubicle to put bets on the second half," he explained.
   9. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:59 PM (#6032599)
Sid Bream accumulated 11 WAR? Wow. I wonder how his WAR/PA would hold up against others with similar totals.

Surprisingly well. Among the 211 players within 200 PA of Bream's 3,531, Sid ranks 90th.

The Ty Cobb of the Feds is on top with 29.0 (and George Springer 2nd and Kris Bryant 3rd, but they're both in mid-career) and the one-and-only (thank goodness!) Johnnie LeMaster (-5.4) at the bottom.
   10. Ron J Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:55 PM (#6032624)
#8 MLB still takes gambling seriously enough that they do a thou shalt not gamble presentation every year. And as I recall they use former FBI agents to make the presentation. Presumably in an effort to communicate how seriously they take the matter.
   11. Ron J Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:21 PM (#6032640)
#7 Just to add some extra detail:

The judge gave the following charge to the jury:

"The State must prove that it was the intent of the ballplayers and gamblers charged with conspiracy through throwing the World Series, to defraud the public and others, not merely to throw ballgames."

And guess what. Their intent was to line their pockets. Though most of the money ended up in Gandil's pockets. Given this charge there was no chance they'd be found guilty.

Not that there was much chance they would be. The jury was pretty clearly partisan. They cheered the players after acquitting them.
   12. Walt Davis Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:44 PM (#6032649)
one in three thought their team's links with the gambling industry "encouraged" them to bet.

See, that's the difference right there. MLB has partnered with the GAMING industry. Completely different.

base ball scandal

When did "base ball" universally become a single word? I would have thought it was pretty much settled by 1921. The pros had been at it for 50 years by then. Was "foot ball" common?

Out of curiosity: Sid Bream vs Eric Hosmer

SB 3531 PA, 108 OPS+, 11 WAR, 0 WAA, 0 dWAR (that's very good for a 1B
EH 6266 PA, 108 OPS+, 18 WAR, -3 WAA, -10 dWAR, 4/$60 left on his contract

So one Hosmer is nearly two Breams. Kids be sure to remember that for your next math test.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: August 03, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6032656)

When did "base ball" universally become a single word?


Sadly, after Lance Linden made his last post.
   14. vortex of dissipation Posted: August 03, 2021 at 07:32 PM (#6032665)
When did "base ball" universally become a single word?


According to Bill James, it started out as two words, "base ball", but the single word "baseball" started to be used by a few in the late 19th century. The change didn't pick up momentum until the 1920s. By the 1930s, the one word "baseball" had become the norm, and the last holdouts were the yearly guides, which used "base ball" until about 1940, and then changed.
   15. VCar Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:28 PM (#6032677)
Where were you when Sid slid?


On a work trip in a sports bar in NJ with a guy who was from Pitt. He was our ride that night, and go so mad that he immediately left and went back to the hotel, accidentally leaving us at the bar.

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