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Tuesday, September 01, 2020

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-1-2020

Seattle Star, September 1, 1920:

Dr. Orlando E. Miller, psychologist, says it isn’t physical skill but the subconscious self which makes Ruth believe that he can slay the horseskin every time he comes to bat.

This wasn’t a great observation, but it was better than whatever advice Dr. Babe Ruth, psychologist, gave Orlando Miller about hitting.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 01, 2020 at 10:22 AM | 19 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 01, 2020 at 10:23 AM (#5973614)
I think the best strategy for today's Birthday Team would be to have Orator O'Rourke start talking and not stop until the other team falls asleep. Which is pretty much just Orator being Orator.

C: Joe Astroth (0.9 WAR)
1B: Rico Carty (32.6 WAR)
2B: Rob Wilfong (7.5 WAR)
3B: Kevin Orie (3.2 WAR)
SS/Manager: Orator Jim O'Rourke (52.2 WAR)
LF: Darby O'Brien (13.3 WAR)
CF: Garry Maddox (36.8 WAR)
RF: Fred Nicholson (4.1 WAR)

SP: David West (2.8 WAR)
SP: Hub Pruett (2.3 WAR)
SP: Lance Davis (1.1 WAR)
SP: Cloyd Boyer (0.6 WAR)
SP: Dean Stone (0.3 WAR)
RP: Dave Rucker (0.5 WAR)

Ballplayer or mobster?: Jimmy Wiggs
Fun names: Stephen Smitherman, Polly Wolfe, Ham Schulte
Fan: Hilda Chester
Great portrait on BBRef: Mike O'Rourke
   2. AndrewJ Posted: September 01, 2020 at 10:48 AM (#5973621)
Bart Giamatti died 31 years ago today. I am now older than he was at the time of his death.
   3. Jaack Posted: September 01, 2020 at 10:48 AM (#5973622)
I know they're actually brothers, but Cloyd Boyer sounds like a name that Clete or Ken made up after a DUI.
   4. Mike Webber Posted: September 01, 2020 at 11:03 AM (#5973625)
Bart Giamatti died 31 years ago today. I am now older than he was at the time of his death.


Well, hell. I'm in the same boat. This is a weird feeling.
   5. Rally Posted: September 01, 2020 at 11:05 AM (#5973626)
I knew Cloyd existed, but did not know he was a pitcher. I just assumed he was another slick fielding 3B, not as much bat as his brothers so a shorter career.

I thought the Boyers were the Alous of third base
   6. puck Posted: September 01, 2020 at 11:16 AM (#5973630)
TIL there was another Boyer brother. How did I not know that until now. That's impressive for 3 brothers to have made it that far.

Gary Maddox has great rfield numbers, won several gold gloves in a row. So was he as good as his rep? They always used to use the "2/3 of the earth's surface is covered by water" line with him.
   7. Itchy Row Posted: September 01, 2020 at 11:17 AM (#5973632)
Somehow I didn't know that Bart was Paul Giamatti's dad.
   8. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 01, 2020 at 12:25 PM (#5973653)
Somehow I didn't know that Bart was Paul Giamatti's dad.


I made the connection when I saw Sideways. There's a scene where Paul steals some cash from his mom, a widow. On top of her dresser where he took the money is a picture of a young Paul and Bart.
   9. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 01, 2020 at 01:29 PM (#5973678)
delete
   10. Rally Posted: September 01, 2020 at 03:43 PM (#5973700)
Gary Maddox has great rfield numbers, won several gold gloves in a row. So was he as good as his rep? They always used to use the "2/3 of the earth's surface is covered by water" line with him.


I don't see any reason to doubt it. I saw Maddox towards the end of this career, he looked good then but was probably greater before that, and the numbers match up well with the reputation.

Unless there is a complete archive of footage from 1970's games and a way to retroactively measure all the things Statcast does, I can't think of anything that could refute Maddox being an outstanding CF. Devon White and Curt Flood are good defensive matches for him, very similar in both career innings in CF and TZ runs.

   11. Rally Posted: September 01, 2020 at 03:45 PM (#5973702)
Maddox had a tougher job than most CF in that he also had to get to balls that Greg Luzinski couldn't get to. Which was just about anything not hit within 10 feet of him.
   12. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 01, 2020 at 04:19 PM (#5973708)
Maddox made it look so effortless. He was a joy to watch. Solid but unspectacular arm is my memory. Or maybe he made the ball look effortless when he threw it.

We saw him on the streets of Cooperstown for the Schmidt-Ashburn induction in 1995. He still looked like he could cover the other 1/3 of the earth.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: September 01, 2020 at 05:50 PM (#5973718)
My memories are like Edmundo's -- think Devon White.

I'd forgotten he started with the Giants. They just churned out OFs in those days. Bonds was still just 26 when Maddox debuted. The solid Ken Henderson was also just 26. They dealt Henderson to open up a spot for Gary Matthews. Jack Clark debuted at 19 a couple of years later. Larry Herndon a couple of years after that. A bit of a lull, then Chili Davis and Dan Gladden (an undrafted FA!) ... and I had no idea Chili Davis was born in Jamaica (but HS in LA). And they had Kingman trying to make it as a 3B/1B a good chunk of that time too.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: September 01, 2020 at 05:51 PM (#5973719)
Maddox -- 6'3", 175 lbs ... and I'd say that was about right.
   15. Mefisto Posted: September 01, 2020 at 06:49 PM (#5973727)
Man, Giants outfielders in the 60s. Manny Mota went through their farm system, as did all 3 Alou brothers. Leon Wagner, Willie Kirkland, Ollie Brown, George Foster, plus all the ones Walt listed in 13.

And it wasn't just outfielders. They had Cepeda, McCovey, Bill White, Andre Rogers, Marichal, Perry, Haller, Randy Hundley, Fuentes, Hart, Speier. Probably others I've forgotten.

They never could put it all together.
   16. Ron J Posted: September 01, 2020 at 09:00 PM (#5973760)
#15 Hal Lanier gets a lot of "credit" for their never quite putting it together. I never really understood their fascination with him -- beyond them always being certain that this was the year he was going to hit .270

Yeah an empty .270, but ... well I swear they thought they had Glenn Beckert (with a better glove) going through a really long cold spell.
   17. Mefisto Posted: September 01, 2020 at 09:07 PM (#5973762)
Agreed. For all their talent, the Giants just fixated on players like Lanier who were awful and dragged the team down.
   18. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 02, 2020 at 01:09 AM (#5973823)
Lanier hit .274 in over 400 PA as a 21-year-old rookie. He never got within 40 points of that again, but perhaps that rookie season somehow convinced the Giants that, despite hitting .222 with an OPS+ of 47 for the rest of his career after that, he could somehow repeat it?
   19. Mefisto Posted: September 02, 2020 at 09:51 AM (#5973839)
Maybe. They think he was very good defensively, though today's estimates don't really support that. He had two excellent defensive seasons ('67 and '69) but was otherwise average. Even those 2 seasons, though, didn't undo the damage Lanier did at the plate (average -33 runs/year from ages 22-27).

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