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Thursday, July 18, 2019

Angels’ Ramirez suspended for drilling Marisnick

Major League Baseball has suspended Los Angeles Angels reliever Noe Ramirez for three games and fined him an undisclosed amount for throwing a pitch Tuesday near the head of Astros center fielder Jake Marisnick.

Angels manager Brad Ausmus was hit with a one-game suspension and an undisclosed fine Wednesday stemming from the sixth-inning incident, in which Ramirez drilled Marisnick between the shoulder blades with a 1-1 pitch.

Whatever, man.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 18, 2019 at 12:16 PM | 17 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: albert pujols, angels, astros, brad ausmus, jake marisnick, justin wilson, no justice no peace, noe ramirez

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   1. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 17, 2019 at 08:10 PM (#5862748)
If you're going to suspend Marisnick for hitting the catcher, you have to suspend Ramirez for hitting Marisnick. At least this feels like a fair resolution.
   2. JAHV Posted: July 17, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5862751)
If you're going to suspend Marisnick for hitting the catcher, you have to suspend Ramirez for hitting Marisnick. At least this feels like a fair resolution.


I agree, although while I think Ramirez's suspension is fair, I don't think it's fair that his suspension is longer than Marisnick's. Intentional or not, Marisnick's play was incredibly reckless and left the Angels without their starting catcher. I would have suspended Marisnick 3 - 5 and then this would feel a little bit more just.
   3. kthejoker Posted: July 17, 2019 at 08:29 PM (#5862752)
All evidence indicates to me Lucroy blocking the plate without the ball and then literally jumping into Marisnick's path home.

Deliberate intent to injure should absolutely be punished more than the unfortunate outcome of the basic laws of physics.

Intent matters.
   4. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 17, 2019 at 09:43 PM (#5862763)
I agree, although while I think Ramirez's suspension is fair, I don't think it's fair that his suspension is longer than Marisnick's.

I agree with this, though I think if you suspend a pitcher for 2 games, he's probably not missing any real work. Three games, odds are he might miss one appearance.
   5. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: July 17, 2019 at 10:05 PM (#5862765)
fwiw, it didn't look like the pitcher was headhunting here; it seems like he was aiming for the mid-back, and the pitch sailed a bit high.

i also think it's a bit weird that he gets suspended for 3 games, while marisnick only got 2.
All evidence indicates to me Lucroy blocking the plate without the ball
lucroy didn't block the plate. he gave marisnick a clear path to the outside, fully complying with the posey rule.

   6. Shredder Posted: July 17, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5862769)
All evidence indicates to me Lucroy blocking the plate without the ball and then literally jumping into Marisnick's path home.
All evidence except the actual video, I suppose.
   7. DFA Posted: July 18, 2019 at 12:20 AM (#5862783)
I agree with this, though I think if you suspend a pitcher for 2 games, he's probably not missing any real work. Three games, odds are he might miss one appearance.


I might be in the minority on this one, but I think you have to suspend him for more games. While I'm certain he was not going for his head, this kind of stuff is unacceptable. I'm not sure what the right number is, but three games is tantamount to a slap on the wrists. Head injuries could have a lifetime of damage, and light punishment continues to put batters at risk.
   8. JAHV Posted: July 18, 2019 at 12:45 AM (#5862787)
All evidence indicates to me Lucroy blocking the plate without the ball and then literally jumping into Marisnick's path home.


There is no video that shows this. Probably because it didn't happen.

I might be in the minority on this one, but I think you have to suspend him for more games. While I'm certain he was not going for his head, this kind of stuff is unacceptable. I'm not sure what the right number is, but three games is tantamount to a slap on the wrists. Head injuries could have a lifetime of damage, and light punishment continues to put batters at risk.


I don't think this makes sense while also only punishing Marisnick for two games.
   9. Bug Selig Posted: July 18, 2019 at 07:38 AM (#5862799)
#3 just friggin wow, man. Marisnick's parents probably couldn't tease this interpretation out of the video.
   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 18, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5862807)
fwiw, it didn't look like the pitcher was headhunting here; it seems like he was aiming for the mid-back, and the pitch sailed a bit high.

i also think it's a bit weird that he gets suspended for 3 games, while marisnick only got 2.


He went high though, which is dangerous. If he hit Marisnick in the thigh or butt, I'd go with just ejection, or a 1 game suspension.

There's a way to do these thing, and aiming at the upper back isn't the way.
   11. Rusty Priske Posted: July 18, 2019 at 09:17 AM (#5862812)
The idea that Ramirez deserves a longer suspension than Marisnick is ludicrous.

It isn't that Ramirez got too long - he didn't. The issue is that Marisnick's suspension is a joke. It should have been 10 games.

Oh, and post 3 is intentional trolling, right?
   12. puck Posted: July 18, 2019 at 10:36 AM (#5862834)
Now we have Manny Machado's contributions to the debate.
   13. Cris E Posted: July 18, 2019 at 10:46 AM (#5862837)
I think it's fine: the slide was a heat of the moment thing and the pitch was premeditated.
   14. JAHV Posted: July 18, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5862871)
He went high though, which is dangerous. If he hit Marisnick in the thigh or butt, I'd go with just ejection, or a 1 game suspension.

There's a way to do these thing, and aiming at the upper back isn't the way.


I don't think he was aiming for the upper back. I think he's Noe Ramirez and isn't all that good at controlling his pitches. And the point of suspending a guy who didn't ACTUALLY hit the helmet is the same as suspending Marisnick (assuming you believe his takeout of Lucroy wasn't intentional): it's dangerous when pitchers throw at batters. They don't have perfect control, particularly when throwing at a spot they never practice throwing at. I think this one was meant for Marisnick's lower back and it got away. The suspension is still deserved because it's an inherently dangerous play that has potentially dire consequences.

Again, though, premeditated or not, Ramirez's pitch had less of a chance to do harm and actually did less harm than Marisnick's play. I think you have to suspend them for the same amount of time at least.
   15. Walt Davis Posted: July 18, 2019 at 08:36 PM (#5863077)
Leaving aside the tough issues, the discrepancy is mainly about the way that suspension lengths are based on usage. The most obvious is of course a SP. It is useless to suspend a SP for 1 game, you have to suspend for at least a min of 5 otherwise it has no impact whatsoever. An infraction from a SP will draw a suspension 5 times longer than the same infraction from a position player.

Most relievers get into about 55-60 games a year. Ramirez was more than that last year (69) and on pace for a bit over 60 this year but still a 3-game suspension for a reliever means roughly he "misses" one game. I'm pretty sure relievers always get at least two games. For position players generally a game suspended is a game missed -- that's not true for a guy like Marisnick who only starts about 60 games a year himself although is starting a bit more than half-time this year, but I've never noticed any tendency to suspend bench players for more games than starters.

So arguably, Marisnick's suspension is (trivially) "longer" than Ramirez's. If the Angels C had (say) shoved Marisnick, the C probably would have gotten only a 1-game suspension. There's certainly a good case that Marisnick deserved more but really Ramirez's punishment is as light as it can be for a reliever.

What I don't get about that sliding scale is that I assume the $ hit on Ramirez is more than Marisnick since he misses 3 games of pay. Is there some agreement with MLBPA on this?
   16. The Duke Posted: July 19, 2019 at 03:46 PM (#5863272)
Was he told to retaliate ? If so that’s who should be suspended p
   17. JAHV Posted: July 19, 2019 at 03:57 PM (#5863279)
Was he told to retaliate ? If so that’s who should be suspended


Ausmus was suspended for a game as well just to address this. But of course Ausmus would never admit to it.

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