BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Rangers ace Jacob deGrom needs Tommy John surgery, will miss rest of 2023 season

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Tuesday, June 06, 2023

Rangers ace Jacob deGrom needs Tommy John surgery, will miss rest of 2023 season

Off to the best start in team history, a postseason appearance becomes a more and more realistic probability for the Rangers. That vision, however, no longer includes expected ace Jacob deGrom. At least not for this year.

A follow-up MRI Tuesday confirmed the Rangers’ worst fears about deGrom’s troublesome elbow: There is a partial tear of the ulnar collateral ligament. He will require Tommy John surgery and will be out until at least until the middle of 2024.

It will extend deGrom’s long stretch of seasons interrupted by injuries to four. He pitched only 92 innings in 2021 with the Mets due to right forearm tightness and only 64 innings last season due to a stress reaction in his right scapula. He has pitched just 30.1 innings in six starts this season for the Rangers after signing a five-year, $185 million contract in November.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 06, 2023 at 04:53 PM | 39 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: jacob degrom, rangers

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1. Howie Menckel Posted: June 06, 2023 at 06:00 PM (#6131689)

yeah, this is quite an update.

yowza.

this is his first TJS, iirc

2. The Duke Posted: June 06, 2023 at 06:01 PM (#6131690)

It's just money and it ain't ours

3. shoelesjoe Posted: June 06, 2023 at 06:16 PM (#6131696)

He had TJS back in 2010, and I’ve heard that recovery the second time around is somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 to 21 months. There’s been a lot of bad news for pitchers recently, especially pitchers making a lot of money. Is this just a statistical blip, or is something else going on?

4. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: June 06, 2023 at 06:33 PM (#6131698)

Rangers fans will always have April 2023.

5. Howie Menckel Posted: June 06, 2023 at 06:55 PM (#6131703)

Michael Marino
@MarinoMLB
The Mets had concerns about both [No. 1 overall amateur draft pick in 2021] Kumar Rocker and Jacob DeGrom’s physicals. The Rangers took a risk aggressively going after both and 2 years later they have both undergone Tommy John, a very tough break for Texas. Wishing a speedy recovery to both.
4:53 PM · Jun 6, 2023

6. Tony S Posted: June 06, 2023 at 06:57 PM (#6131704)

Bad news for the Rangers, but their offense is so dominant that they'll probably still win the division anyway.

7. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: June 06, 2023 at 07:05 PM (#6131705)

There’s been a lot of bad news for pitchers recently, especially pitchers making a lot of money.

It's even worse news for the teams that are paying the injured pitchers a lot of money.

8. Banta Posted: June 06, 2023 at 07:29 PM (#6131709)

What a strange journey to get here. Nebulous arm injury for over two years and finally it’s decided he needs Tommy John. I have no idea what’s going on here, maybe we just never had the full picture, but I do wonder if this was all just sort of held off until free agency. Or he was being optimistic or something else developed along the way (maybe a combination of all of the above). Regardless, at least there’s a plan of action now so maybe he can actually play without the injury bug hanging over his shoulder.

9. Howie Menckel Posted: June 06, 2023 at 07:48 PM (#6131713)

deGrom cried today and said, "at least now we know what it is."

he said he hoped to be back before the end of 2024 - not an unrealistic goal.

10. Tom and Shivs couples counselor Posted: June 06, 2023 at 07:49 PM (#6131715)

With the Rangers playing so well if he could have been healthy he would have won a ton of games with that offense. Just sucks.

11. sunday silence (again) Posted: June 06, 2023 at 07:59 PM (#6131719)

I do wonder if this was all just sort of held off until free agency.

very reasonable question to ask. Is this the sort of thing that would be picked up by medical reports that are reviewed prior to the trade or if he wasnt MRI'd or XRay'd then the other team has no data to go on?

12. shoelesjoe Posted: June 06, 2023 at 08:29 PM (#6131725)

Is this the sort of thing that would be picked up by medical reports that are reviewed prior to the trade or if he wasnt MRI'd or XRay'd then the other team has no data to go on?

DeGrom was signed as a free agent, and I assume the Rangers had him take a physical where they examined his arm from shoulder to fingernails before handing him a billion dollars. If there was prior damage and they missed it (which is very likely the case) then that’s on them.

13. gehrig97 Posted: June 07, 2023 at 11:17 AM (#6131790)

What a bummer. That said, I never really understood why deGrom didn't dial it back a few MPH the last couple of years. Obviously, no one understands his biomechanics better than he does, but it seemed to me that throwing 95 MPH sliders with a sore arm wasn't a great long-term strategy.

He never reached Gooden's cult-hero status, and he didn't bring the charisma and electricity of Pedro... but man, when deGrom was on he was just a remorseless killing machine on that mound.

14. Howie Menckel Posted: June 07, 2023 at 12:13 PM (#6131797)

the Mets famously never scored runs for him, so I remember a few years ago going to Citi Field when he was pitching around the 5th or 6th inning of an inevitably scoreless game. damned if he didn't hit a home run himself - the place went wild!

(are we still allowed to remember wonderful pitchers hitting stories, or was that banned as part of the DH agreement? not sure.)

15. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 07, 2023 at 12:57 PM (#6131810)

(are we still allowed to remember wonderful pitchers hitting stories, or was that banned as part of the DH agreement? not sure.)

Ah, the good old days, when pitchers could slash .204/.238/.251 and be remembered fondly.

16. The Duke Posted: June 07, 2023 at 04:50 PM (#6131853)

Tangotiger says Degrom is like Rivera and therefore should be HOF considered.

He'll be considered for sure but he won't get the 75%. The Hall has a love affair with relievers not with starters who aren't durable

17. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 07, 2023 at 09:20 PM (#6131916)

Tangotiger says Degrom is like Rivera . . .

They were both MLB pitchers.

18. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 08, 2023 at 11:24 AM (#6132003)

Tangotiger says Degrom is like Rivera and therefore should be HOF considered.

deGrom is closer to Lee Smith than Mariano Rivera. So, HOF I guess.

19. Adam Starblind Posted: June 08, 2023 at 11:42 AM (#6132007)

Ah, the good old days, when pitchers could slash .204/.238/.251 and be remembered fondly.

That would add a WAR to his value!

I'm not sure about the math, but it is true that a half competent hitting pitcher could add materially to his value since the replacement hitting pitcher was so terrible.

20. Astroenteritis Posted: June 08, 2023 at 11:47 AM (#6132008)

(are we still allowed to remember wonderful pitchers hitting stories, or was that banned as part of the DH agreement? not sure.)

One of the great things about being so old is that I have many great pitcher hitting memories. I still remember a massive home run I saw J.R. Richard hit in the Astrodome.

As for deGrom, I just hate to see pitchers go down, it really sucks. Is there any position in any other sport that has such a long injury shadow hanging over it as pitcher? Every time a guy gets a twinge or ache my mind goes right to TJ.

21. Froot Loops Posted: June 08, 2023 at 02:40 PM (#6132030)

One of the great things about being so old is that I have many great pitcher hitting memories. I still remember a massive home run I saw J.R. Richard hit in the Astrodome.

German Marquez homered on July 31, 2021, against the Padres' Yu Darvish. Was that the last-ever pitcher-hit home run?

22. Zonk Won the Mental Acuity Golf Trophy at his Club Posted: June 08, 2023 at 02:45 PM (#6132032)

I presume all such questions and discussions now come with an implied asterisk “not counting Ohtani” right?

23. NaOH Posted: June 08, 2023 at 02:46 PM (#6132033)

German Marquez homered on July 31, 2021, against the Padres' Yu Darvish. Was that the last-ever pitcher-hit home run?

Non-Ohtani and pre-universal DH, the last pitcher home run was by the Giants' Logan Webb on the last day of 2021.

24. Karl from NY Posted: June 08, 2023 at 02:54 PM (#6132036)

25. Karl from NY Posted: June 08, 2023 at 02:58 PM (#6132038)

Is there any position in any other sport that has such a long injury shadow hanging over it as pitcher?

Well, race car driver. Pitchers don't actually die in competition.

26. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: June 08, 2023 at 03:19 PM (#6132048)

BBref has Mike Hampton at 20.7 pitching WAR and 7.5 batting WAR. If that's accurate, then just over 25% of his career value was from batting relative to other pitchers. I'd bet he's the last pitcher with that big a proportion (with some reasonable minimum sample size, and excluding Ohtani and Ankiel.)

The first challenger I thought of was Mike Leake, but his hitting tailed off after leaving Cincinnati. He finished at 2.7/13.6, about 16%.

Among current pitchers Michael Lorenzen had a shot before the universal DH. Through 2021 he was at 1.6/4.8 (25%). He's since tacked on a couple pitcher WAR so is down to 19%.

If you want to lower the IP threshold, Micah Owings (483 IP) outWARed hitting over pitching. 2.5/0.7.

There are probably some pitchers not named Mike/Micah to consider as well.

27. Itchy Row Posted: June 08, 2023 at 03:42 PM (#6132050)

If 900 IP is enough, Tim Lollar also had more slightly hitting WAR than pitching: 3.0/2.8. He was good enough as a hitter that the mid-1980s Red Sox, teams consisting of a lot of DHs, gave him a couple of PAs, both of them against Dan Quisenberry in the ninth inning.

28. SoSH U at work Posted: June 08, 2023 at 04:19 PM (#6132058)

Jason Marquis, who retired in 2015, produced 36 percent of his 6.8 WAR on the hitting side. He threw almost 2,000 mostly forgettable innings.

29. Froot Loops Posted: June 08, 2023 at 04:43 PM (#6132063)

BBref has Mike Hampton at 20.7 pitching WAR and 7.5 batting WAR.

Earl Wilson was almost exactly the same: 20.4 pitching WAR and 7.6 batting WAR.

30. The Duke Posted: June 08, 2023 at 05:16 PM (#6132070)

20. Horses at any racetrack in the country . Jockeys as well, come to think of it

31. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 08, 2023 at 06:18 PM (#6132096)

BBref has Mike Hampton at 20.7 pitching WAR and 7.5 batting WAR. If that's accurate, then just over 25% of his career value was from batting relative to other pitchers. I'd bet he's the last pitcher with that big a proportion (with some reasonable minimum sample size, and excluding Ohtani and Ankiel.)

Not quite as high from a percentage standpoint as Hampton, but Don Newcombe had 30.1 pitching WAR and 8.6 batting WAR, so batting is 22% of his total.

32. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 09, 2023 at 01:32 AM (#6132138)

Not a high percentage of his 152.4 pitching WAR, but Walter Johnson added a tidy 12.7 WAR with the bat.

33. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 09, 2023 at 11:20 AM (#6132152)

Greinke was sneaky good. Accumulated 5.1 WAR at the plate over his 9 NL seasons.

34. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: June 09, 2023 at 12:32 PM (#6132163)

Pitchers don't actually die in competition.

Other than Damon Rutherford.

35. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 09, 2023 at 12:44 PM (#6132166)

There was a pitcher named Bill LeFebvre who pitched for the Red Sox and Senators in the late '30s and early '40s. He had a WAR of 0.0 - +1.2 hitting and -1.2 pitching. He had an ERA+ of 72 in 132 innings as a pitcher, and an OPS+ of 128 (.276/.382/.414) as a hitter. He actually had more pinch-hitting appearances than pitching, 41-36, and led the AL in pinch hits in 1944. Long after his career ended, he said, "I should have been a first baseman".

36. Cowboy Popup Posted: June 09, 2023 at 04:25 PM (#6132200)

NM, someone already said Micah Owings.

37. djordan Posted: June 10, 2023 at 11:11 AM (#6132257)

I'm chiming in here to offer some Carlos Zambrano love. I thought perhaps that he could compete with Hampton's pitcher/hitting pitcher WAR ratio, but alas it wasn't close (38.3/5.6.) A couple things did jump out at me:

1) Wow, 38.3! Didn't realize it was that high (over 1959 innings.) Palmer was 38.6 at 2100 innings. Ryan was 28.9. It's a silly comparison (without measuring Fangraphs WAR or WARP) but it did catch my attention.

2) Here's what's really quirky. Zambrano, over 1959 innings, also pitched to a 4.01 career FIP as well as a 122 ERA+. In the history of the game, only Philadelphia A's starter Eddie Rommel, who pitched from 1920 to 1934, amassed an ERA+ above 120 alongside a 4 FIP, over 1900+ innings.

38. baxter Posted: June 10, 2023 at 07:45 PM (#6132327)

Red Lucas

39. Captain Supporter Posted: June 11, 2023 at 12:24 PM (#6132354)

Pitchers don't actually die in competition.

Other than Damon Rutherford

Great reference to the best baseball novel ever written.

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Tuesday, June 06, 2023

Rangers ace Jacob deGrom needs Tommy John surgery, will miss rest of 2023 season

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