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Tuesday, September 13, 2022

Rawlings to award Gold Gloves to utility players starting this season

Rawlings will begin awarding Gold Gloves to utility players from the American and National Leagues, effective this season, the company announced Tuesday. This is in addition to the nine Gold Gloves given to the top defensive position players in each league.

“We’re thrilled to finally introduce a Rawlings Gold Glove Award that recognizes players with the superior defensive ability to play multiple positions,” Mike Thompson, chief marketing officer for Rawlings, said in a statement. “Utility players are some of the most versatile athletes you’ll see on the field, and it’s time for them to be rewarded for their tremendous defense, alongside position players.”

To earn consideration for a Gold Glove as a position player, an infielder or outfielder must have played in the field for at least 713 innings through his team’s 141st game. It’s not yet known if utility players will be subject to the same innings requirement.Pitchers must pitch in 141 innings of their teams’ first 141 games and catchers must play in a minimum of 71 of their teams’ first 141 games to qualify.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 10:21 AM | 43 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: gold gloves

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   1. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 13, 2022 at 10:53 AM (#6095935)
This is a neat addition.
   2. salvomania Posted: September 13, 2022 at 11:43 AM (#6095939)
Interesting---perhaps Tommy Edman will qualify for the Utility position: he leads MLB in defensive WAR (2.8), but has not played 700 innings at any single position (he's played over 500 innings at both 2B and SS).
   3. salvomania Posted: September 13, 2022 at 11:47 AM (#6095940)
Tampa Bay's Taylor Walls is in the same boat as Edman: he's second in MLB in defensive WAR (2.7), but has not played 700 innings at any one position (686 at SS, 160 at 3B, 128 at 2B).
   4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 12:16 PM (#6095944)
I guess I'm struggling to think of too many elite defenders this would have applied to before. Lorenzo Cain got screwed out of one by not qualifying in CF one year because he'd move over for Jarrod Dyson. Who else?
   5. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 12:26 PM (#6095945)
To earn consideration for a Gold Glove as a position player, an infielder or outfielder must have played in the field for at least 713 innings through his team’s 141st game.


When was this requirement put in? Certainly wasn't a thing in '99.
   6. JJ1986 Posted: September 13, 2022 at 12:36 PM (#6095947)
That requirement is so weird. Do they need 2 months to vote?
   7. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 12:55 PM (#6095949)
That requirement is so weird. Do they need 2 months to vote?

They used to when it was done with paper ballots (not that long ago). Can't imagine they need that much time now. See below quote (from 2013):

Ultimately, Hunzeker hopes to have Gold Glove voting take place after the season. Under the current system, media relations reps from baseball’s 30 teams need a time buffer to distribute and collect ballots from each club’s manager and coaches. He said digital voting was offered to all teams for the first time this year, but only two teams took advantage of it.
   8. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: September 13, 2022 at 01:30 PM (#6095953)
I guess I'm struggling to think of too many elite defenders this would have applied to before. Lorenzo Cain got screwed out of one by not qualifying in CF one year because he'd move over for Jarrod Dyson. Who else?

Javy Baez. Zobrist back in the day? Was Marwin Gonzales ever an elite defender? Chris Taylor?
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 02:15 PM (#6095957)

When was this requirement put in? Certainly wasn't a thing in '99.


I'm guessing in 2013, when they began basing it on a metric combined with a manager vote.
   10. Karl from NY Posted: September 13, 2022 at 03:05 PM (#6095959)
Determining it through 141 games also means players won't lose eligibility if they yield some playing time to a September callup.
   11. Howie Menckel Posted: September 13, 2022 at 03:21 PM (#6095961)
When was this requirement put in? Certainly wasn't a thing in '99.

yes, Palmeiro only had 246 innings IN THE FIELD that year. in retrospect, they should have had a rule that no one with fewer than xxx innings is eligible - regardless of their vote totals.

Palmeiro started 151 and 158 games at first base while winning the 1997 and 1998 Gold Gloves, then had only 28 starts in 1999 when he and Lee Stevens flipped DH and 1B roles (perhaps because Palmeiro was 34, but Stevens was 31. and the Rangers apparently were so impressed that they traded Stevens to the Expos in the offseason in a 3-way deal that included Toronto and brought David Segui back to the Rangers. But Palmeiro got more 1B time than did Segui, who was traded to Cleveland in mid-2000.

Am trying to recall how much access people had to in-season fielding statistics in 1999, somewhat early days of the internet. but.... yeah, a beat writer surely had such access so I can't give them a pass.
   12. NaOH Posted: September 13, 2022 at 03:36 PM (#6095963)
Am trying to recall how much access people had to in-season fielding statistics in 1999, somewhat early days of the internet. but.... yeah, a beat writer surely had such access so I can't give them a pass.


No need. Voting was done exclusively by managers and coaches, only for players in their respective leagues, and not for players on their own teams.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: September 13, 2022 at 03:45 PM (#6095966)
catchers must play in a minimum of 71 of their teams’ first 141 games to qualify.

If that's correct, then Rutschman barely qualifies ... only 68 starts in 140 games but 75 appearances at C.

Utility & elite: Pokey Reese maybe. He won GG as a 2B in 1999-2000. In 2001, he split time between 2B (>600 innings) and SS (>400) ... but TZ considered him just average that year. His last season in 2004 in Boston, he was split-time but not for enough innings to qualify but, by TZ and DRS, that season practically redefines defensive excellence. (+21 TZ, +15 DRS in <700 innings.

Miguel Cairo might have deserved a GG in his younger days at 2B, became a solid glove utility guy later, not sure he qualifies as elite.

Grich won his first GG at 24 at 2B but the year before that he 600 at SS, nearly 400 at 2B, 99 at 1B and a bit of 3B. In 1977, his first with the Angels, he played 460 at SS and 1240 at 2B but apparently big name FAs don't get GGs. :-) He floated around 1B, 2B, 3B towards the end of his career.

Still, fair point that if you're that good of a glove, the team will usually stick you in one spot and live with the bat. The genuine glove-first utility guy might well not get enough PT to qualify -- 713 innings (not necessarily starts) is nearly 80 full games so about 350 PA through the first 141 games so a 400+ PA season to qualify. Maybe they will relax those requirements for utility guys. In the end, this award will probably end up going mainly to guys just breaking in -- maybe before their teams realize how bad the bat is -- old elite defenders on their way out (the Omar Vizquel Award ... maybe not) or the Muncy/Taylor/Hernandez/Zobrist/DeRosa types because they're the only ones eligible. (Some of those guys were/are perfectly solid defenders but not exactly Belanger.)
   14. BDC Posted: September 13, 2022 at 04:00 PM (#6095970)
I guess that Tony Phillips would have become the "incumbent" Gold Glove utility man if they'd had the award then. I remember Phillips as a well-regarded defender, though as much for his sheer versatility as anything else. B-Ref shows him with some respectable RField season totals – certainly guys have won GG with less – though I don't know how those RField totals get mashed together from small samples at many positions.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 04:01 PM (#6095971)
Nicky Lopez would be a good candidate this year - split his time at 2B and SS, good metrics at FG, although BBRef has him at negative dWAR.
   16. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 13, 2022 at 04:07 PM (#6095972)
Javy Baez. Zobrist back in the day? Was Marwin Gonzales ever an elite defender? Chris Taylor?

Manny Machado at one point would have qualified, even though nobody would have called him a "utility player".
   17. NaOH Posted: September 13, 2022 at 04:12 PM (#6095974)
Manny Machado at one point would have qualified, even though nobody would have called him a "utility player".

Like DJ LeMahieu nowadays moving among 1B, 2B, and 3B.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: September 13, 2022 at 04:26 PM (#6095976)
Utility & elite: Pokey Reese maybe. He won GG as a 2B in 1999-2000. In 2001, he split time between 2B (>600 innings) and SS (>400) ... but TZ considered him just average that year. His last season in 2004 in Boston, he was split-time but not for enough innings to qualify but, by TZ and DRS, that season practically redefines defensive excellence. (+21 TZ, +15 DRS in <700 innings.


Rey Sanchez had a few seasons.
   19. Howie Menckel Posted: September 13, 2022 at 05:13 PM (#6095983)
Voting was done exclusively by managers and coaches, only for players in their respective leagues, and not for players on their own teams.

yes, and an excellent point. managers and coaches would have had less access to in-season fielding stats - and less interest in the professionalism of attempting to find them. In fact, I am skeptical that many of them were embarrassed when the facts came out.
   20. BDC Posted: September 13, 2022 at 05:29 PM (#6095987)
That a guy wasn't even his team's first baseman, as you note, should have been pretty hard to miss even with limited access to stats :) Though I suppose this just shows how minimal an impression the Texas Rangers make on the world even when they win 95 games …
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: September 13, 2022 at 05:33 PM (#6095988)
no doubt some coaches and managers would first check who won the year before.
that was Palmeiro, who was en route to a 47-148-.324 season in '99, his best in a series of big years.
"ok, let's see - who at second base last year?"

more than 35 years ago, Topps had writers vote for the All-Rookie teams. if all of your selections won, you got a prize. my boss was now a desk man, but he wanted that prize and he knew I was a baseball junkie.

so I filled it out, not trying to choose the best players but the most likely winners.

well, I got 'em all right. Topps sent my boss a bunch of boxes of cards, etc.

Boss: "Hey, good job on that contest - my son is really enjoying the prizes!"

I got none of them - and his son was my age.

:(
   22. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: September 13, 2022 at 05:58 PM (#6095995)
I feel like this is something that is cool to have when there's someone who deserves it, but may often end up as an award in search of a recipient.
   23. Tom and Shivs couples counselor Posted: September 13, 2022 at 07:56 PM (#6096011)
Kind of surprised the old timer historians here didn't mention Gil McDougald. Like in 1957 led the AL in defensive WAR (fwiw), 5th in MVP voting and that being the first year of GGs lost to Roy McMillan and Nellie Fox though McDougald started the vast majority of the time at SS.

   24. Tom and Shivs couples counselor Posted: September 13, 2022 at 07:59 PM (#6096012)
Or Craig Counsell for several years in his late 30's though I don't believe he hit the innings target regularly
   25. Cooper Nielson Posted: September 13, 2022 at 08:43 PM (#6096021)
I guess I'm struggling to think of too many elite defenders this would have applied to before. Lorenzo Cain got screwed out of one by not qualifying in CF one year because he'd move over for Jarrod Dyson. Who else?

We'll see how this actually plays out, but I would prefer to see this award go to the "most versatile defender" rather than "best defensive player who spent some time at a second position." I would rather recognize the Ben Zobrist/Tony Philips types than someone like 2016 Manny Machado, an excellent defensive 3B who was asked to fill in at SS for a while and did well there too.

Brandon Inge had a year where he played C, 3B, and CF, and was pretty good at all of them.
   26. JJ1986 Posted: September 13, 2022 at 08:56 PM (#6096026)
Wayne Randazzo suggested Daulton Varsho for this year's award.
   27. John Northey Posted: September 13, 2022 at 11:55 PM (#6096042)
I really think they should change it to being voted on by advance scouts instead - they pay more attention than coaches and managers I'd figure.
   28. baxter Posted: September 14, 2022 at 12:29 AM (#6096043)
Hoping for a retroactive award for Lou Klimchock, except he wasn't very good. Always seemed to get multiple Klimchock cards every year.
   29. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 14, 2022 at 11:12 AM (#6096066)
David Fletcher a few years ago would have qualified, although he's settled in as a middle infielder in the last couple years. He's certainly a very good defender. Chone Figgins was all over the field when he first came up with the Angels, but he was versatility without much quality.
   30. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 14, 2022 at 11:38 AM (#6096069)
Hoping for a retroactive award for Lou Klimchock, except he wasn't very good. Always seemed to get multiple Klimchock cards every year.


My Lou Klimchock was Reno Bertoia.
   31. Cris E Posted: September 14, 2022 at 03:54 PM (#6096103)
So far this year the Twins' Nick Gordon has played SS, 2B, CF, LF, P and DH, and he's been pretty decent. Of course you can't give him too much credit for the 2 DH and 4 P games. Of the four games on the mound he got no chances. That's probably because of the four walks and two home runs.
   32. Walt Davis Posted: September 14, 2022 at 07:05 PM (#6096143)
That's probably because of the four walks and two home runs.

So better results than Josh Hader?
   33. cardsfanboy Posted: September 14, 2022 at 07:53 PM (#6096148)
I feel like this is something that is cool to have when there's someone who deserves it, but may often end up as an award in search of a recipient.


DING! DING! DING! we have a winner. I have no issue with it, if there is a worthy candidate, but just claiming there is one every year going forward can end up being on par with Palmiero level bad decision for this award. There is a reason that when you have a good utility player who can field multiple positions well, that they make the news. Whitey Herzog declaring that Jose Oquendo was the true MVP for the Cardinals (yes it was an overstatement for effect) etc. Ben Zobrist doing what he did etc. The number of good utility players annually is fairly small (it's increasing though) and even in that subset not many are truly excellent/gold glove quality at multiple positions, many are passable at a few, and good at a few.
   34. Ron J Posted: September 14, 2022 at 07:57 PM (#6096151)
Phillips was an unusual utility guy. He allowed the Tiger to platoon Lou Whitaker with an outfielder. Pretty handy to have a guy who can handle second and hit like a good hitting LF.
   35. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 14, 2022 at 09:19 PM (#6096170)
I would rather recognize the Ben Zobrist/Tony Philips types than someone like 2016 Manny Machado, an excellent defensive 3B who was asked to fill in at SS for a while and did well there too.

If Machado is going to be excluded from winning at 3B or SS during a season like that, I have no problem with him winning the utility player award.
   36. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2022 at 09:49 PM (#6096177)
A true utility Gold Glove player should be one that doesn’t have enough games to qualify at any one position, but makes the cut for games at all his positions while playing excellent defense. Not too many like that.

Are those who play multiple outfield positions going to be eligible? More info needed here.
   37. cardsfanboy Posted: September 14, 2022 at 10:11 PM (#6096180)
A true utility Gold Glove player should be one that doesn’t have enough games to qualify at any one position, but makes the cut for games at all his positions while playing excellent defense. Not too many like that.

Are those who play multiple outfield positions going to be eligible? More info needed here.


Yep, I agree. I would also lump corner outfield into it's own position as far as the utility position is concerned (heck I would lump it even for the regular gloves, centerfield is different, corner is only differentiated by arm strength)

   38. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 14, 2022 at 10:55 PM (#6096189)
If Oswaldo Cabrera's bat improves enough to let him stay on the roster next year, he'd be a lock for a utility player's GG. He's already got 6 assists in just 18 games in RF, not to mention 9 Defensive Runs above average. What's even more impressive is that in the minors he was being used almost exclusively as an infielder.
   39. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 14, 2022 at 11:04 PM (#6096193)
If Oswaldo Cabrera's bat improves enough to let him stay on the roster next year, he'd be a lock for a utility player's GG. He's already got 6 assists in just 18 games in RF, not to mention 9 Defensive Runs above average. What's even more impressive is that in the minors he was being used almost exclusively as an infielder.

Does he have 6 assists because teams thought his arm sucked, and it doesn't? That kind of stuff isn't necessarily very projectible from SSS.
   40. Howie Menckel Posted: September 14, 2022 at 11:24 PM (#6096194)
that's what usually happens, yes.

teams are aware he has close to zero experience in the OF in the minors, so they test him. in this case, they chose poorly.

if he does get his bat to MLB level, and he plays much OF in the future, teams won't run on him - so he'll rarely get an assist.

does that mean his OF defense "declined?" not at all.
   41. Cooper Nielson Posted: September 15, 2022 at 12:03 AM (#6096199)
A true utility Gold Glove player should be one that doesn’t have enough games to qualify at any one position, but makes the cut for games at all his positions while playing excellent defense. Not too many like that.

Are those who play multiple outfield positions going to be eligible? More info needed here.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I realize that the more conditions you add, the more watered-down the award will be, but I would like to see something like:

* Played at least [x games/innings] at three or more different positions.
* Played at least [y games/innings] in two or more "position groups," which could be simply (i) catcher, (ii) infield, (iii) outfield; or could be broken down further into corner infield/middle infield, center field/corner outfield.
* Played competently at all positions and played excellently at (at least) one of them.

Others will surely disagree, but in this era of short benches, I wouldn't consider someone who played LF/CF/RF (but nowhere else) to be a "utility player," or someone who played only 2B/SS or only SS/3B. Those don't require significantly different defensive skills but are just different degrees of difficulty. In theory, a great SS should be able to handle 2B or 3B and a great CF should be able to handle LF or RF, but the best SS may struggle at LF and the best CF may struggle at 2B, while both of them would likely struggle at catcher. The value of a "utility player" is his versatility.
   42. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 15, 2022 at 07:48 AM (#6096206)
If Oswaldo Cabrera's bat improves enough to let him stay on the roster next year, he'd be a lock for a utility player's GG. He's already got 6 assists in just 18 games in RF, not to mention 9 Defensive Runs above average. What's even more impressive is that in the minors he was being used almost exclusively as an infielder.

Does he have 6 assists because teams thought his arm sucked, and it doesn't? That kind of stuff isn't necessarily very projectible from SSS.


You're a Yankees fan. You've seen those assists. That's what I'm going on, more than just the numbers.

----------

teams are aware he has close to zero experience in the OF in the minors, so they test him. in this case, they chose poorly.

if he does get his bat to MLB level, and he plays much OF in the future, teams won't run on him - so he'll rarely get an assist.

does that mean his OF defense "declined?" not at all.


True, true, and true. Which in part is why defensive metrics in the outfield are extremely imprecise. But what I've seen from Cabrera is a strong and very accurate arm along with a series of highlight reel catches, all the more impressive because it's been in only 18 games in a position he hadn't played before. Small sample size, yes, but that criticism addresses the numbers, not the underlying skill sets.
   43. Ron J Posted: September 15, 2022 at 11:33 AM (#6096238)
#42 Our measurement of outfield defense have broadly the save year to year variation as to offensive metrics.

With all that this implies for limited sample sizes.

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