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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Monday, May 22, 2023Red Sox: Kenley Jansen calls out MLB for ‘ruining careers’ with pitch clock
RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)
Posted: May 22, 2023 at 10:04 PM | 58 comment(s)
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1. Cooper Nielson Posted: May 22, 2023 at 10:57 PM (#6129640)they'll all enjoy the 4+ hour games.
now, they won't enjoy the half-empty stands (at best) or the meager TV contracts (at best) that lead to massive reductions in salaries - but who cares? the important thing is that Kenley Jansen gets to do whatever he wants, as long as it takes.
wait, is Kenley objecting to that result? is he wondering why the baseball fans and networks who pay his salary don't bow to his whims?
again, my objection is not even to him preferring different rules.
it's his pitiful lack of self-awareness of why he makes so much money.
I cannot overstate how much I enjoy this greatly improved product in 2023.
I watch more baseball now. hell, I don't even DVR it as often, because the real-time pace is not that far off from my preference.
for the last 5 years or more? hell no, I never watched a commercial. you guys were so pitifully slothful that I let myself get 15-20 minutes behind - and caught up in less than half that time.
lather, rinse, and repeat.
kenley can just learn himself to deal with the pitch clock. and the umps need to kick the batters gaming the system
realize has nothing to do with it. he doesn't care.
I think it's more that some pitchers are affected less by it than others and will look good in comparison.
Overall sure, but I suspect there are pitchers that actually benefit from working quicker. I guess it's possible Buehrle could have gotten more out of his ability than he did, but it's damn hard to imagine.
But as a guy who has enjoyed several games in person this season, including 7 pm starts where I'm home by 10:30, i don't care. I love the clock. Long live the clock
More like Buehrle would have an advantage over most of the league, and thus his performance would look better in comparison.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Mark Buehrle, or Derek Lowe, and pitchers like them (guys who aren't throwing max velocity on every offering, but relying on movement and location), may very perform better at the more rapid rate they worked at than they would have had they been more deliberate. If not, they were cheating themselves, weren't they?
Other things that have helped - Bassitt, he of the 8 different pitches, loves the pitch com on his belt. Some headaches game one as he adjusted, but since 1.83 ERA over 9 starts. He also uses the clock well. He'll let it run out sometimes to reset, knowing he can throw strikes so giving the batter a ball to let him get better focus is worth it sometimes. He also calls time or has something set up with the catcher so he gets a break if it is too close to 0 and needs the time with 2 or 3 balls on the batter.
Basically it is all time-management. Clearly Jansen hasn't figured that part out yet. I remember in spring Max Scherzer was talking about how much he enjoyed the clock and playing with it. Good pitchers work with what they have, bad ones complain.
Not necessarily. It's possible that every pitcher gets worse by working quickly - by way of the hitters perfoming better when they don't have to maintain their heightened reactive alertness so long while waiting for the pitch.
Too early to say if he’s actually better. One bad start could knock his ERA+ down to his career level, 84. And he’s facing the ####### Rays tomorrow. But if he’s still a bad pitcher, at least a strike throwing gopher baller is more watchable than a gopherballer who first walks the bases loaded.
And watch hitters crush the ball into the seats, ending the careers of those pitchers.
It already has.
I get it, you guys here love baseball so much that you want to get home a half an hour earlier to do, well whatever it is you seem to prefer more than baseball. But it is already having a serious consequence on pitchers' elbows and shoulders.
This will require a cite, for as you, someone not ignorant of history surely knows, baseball started out without strikes and balls, and the batter was allowed to wait as long as he wanted for a pitch he deemed to his liking.
I don't "prefer" to be working and getting up early but it is a necessity. My kids would probably prefer to watch the game and get to bed late and sleep in the next day but I prefer them to get enough sleep and be better students.
It is a trade-off, one that has led to me not watching baseball because I am someone that is up before 6 am, and am not one that can function on 4 hours of sleep a night for the entire season.
Summer is almost here; start the games after the sun goes down.
Game will be over by 10:30; you’ll be in bed by 11:30.
This requires a cite. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have not seen any documentation that the pitch clock is causing more injuries.
I also would propose that if the pitch clock is leading to more strain, the better way to alleviate that strain is for pitchers to throw fewer pitches at maximum effort, not to remove the pitch clock. If that means every pitcher is giving up homeruns, they will all be relatively as effective as they were before and no careers will be ended.
Also, if MLB has to do something that tilts the scales toward better pitcher health by making getting outs easier, that's fine. But the pitch clock stays.
I'm fine with that as well.
I'd say split the difference and go with 7:30, game is over by 10:00. Most people can get home from the park by 11:00. Quick shower, brush teeth, whatever, in bed before 11:30 easy. Even an early riser like me, 5:30am, gets a solid 6 hours and that's more then enough if only once or twice a week.
It's not that there's something I'd rather be doing with that extra half hour than watching baseball. It's that there are many, many things I'd rather be doing with that extra half hour than watching players stand around, not playing baseball.
My son works for Wasserman in NY and was saying for the first time in a few years, the younger staff were actually discussing MLB regularly around the office. Many had been drawn back in initially by the WBC and have been regularly watching more MLB then they had in the past and all had mentioned how the game just moves along now with no boring bits.
"And by 'careers' you mean your career."
"Well, yeah."
"Mr. Jansen. Eric Hosmer, recently unemployed first baseman."
"Yes, you have a question?"
"What do you say to all those aging hitters whose careers are ended due to an inability to hit 98-MPH fastballs and super-high spin rates?"
"You can't hit better than Casas over there?"
"Seems not."
"Then I guess I'd say some of them were lucky to make $160 M in their career."
How about if we have 5 minutes between batters, and 30 minutes between half innings. Then you could have 12 hours of baseball every day. Wouldn't that be heaven?
I think most of us believe the shift rule must account for most/all of the BA bump. So has any of this even hurt pitchers? At least by the stats we see.
Hell, why not go whole hog and go back to WWII, when many night games began at 9:00?** Or go back to the early 50's, when they all began at 8:30?
** Early NBA games were frequently MSG doubleheaders involving 4 different teams, with the second game beginning at 10:00. Of course back then most of the spectators were only a few subway stops from their apartments.
I'm sure there are large segments of a team's fan base that are split among preferring start times of 7 pm, 7:30 pm, or 8 pm, for just some of the various reasons noted here.
so why not do 15-20 of each?
then a fan who only attends games occasionally can check the schedule in the preseason and target preferred dates.
I used to take an older close friend to a midweek afternoon game every year. he loved not feeling intimidated by large crowds, and basking in the sun like a turtle on a log (or going into one of the stadium clubs if it got too hot).
back from my Wrigley Field excursions, I could swear they never played two consecutive games with the same start time - and this began before Wrigley even had lights! sure, we once got stuck with standing-room only because we didn't anticipate a noon start time, but that was on us.
my current ballgame buddy is tiring of the rush-hour drive to Citi Field, and is talking about focusing more on weekend games and matinees.
it could be a little bit of a marketing challenge, but I think it could be pitched as trying to give everyone a chance at the optimal start time.
and for a season ticketholder, the 8 pm games, for example, might usually go to one client just as some weekend giveaway game tickets go to another.
How come they did that? I go back to 8:05 starts in the 1960s. All I can guess is that war factory people did a lot of 8 am to 8 pm shifts?
Game time has always just been a proxy for pace. They've reduced game time by picking up the pace, which means the same amount of baseball in less time. It's way better.
would you be less annoyed if I told you it was cutting into my beer intake time?
How come they did that? I go back to 8:05 starts in the 1960s. All I can guess is that war factory people did a lot of 8 am to 8 pm shifts?
Yeah, probably that. It wasn't the first time that starting times were adjusted for specific groups. Those 1920's 3:00 game times for the Yankees were said to be accommodating Wall Street workers. And it wouldn't surprise me if those early NBA 10:00 games in Madison Square Garden simply reflected the thought that the core crowds for NYC basketball in those days largely consisted of gamblers and other late night aficionados.
The 8:05 starting times of the 60's that you refer to began at varying points in the mid-50's. My first game at Griffith Stadium in 1952 began at 8:30,** but by the midpoint of the decade it was moved up to 8:05. After that, the 7:30 starts came at different points for different teams, and now we're seeing 6:40 games in more than a few cities.
** Games in 1952 averaged 2:25, and public transport to Griffith Stadium was such that you could easily get there within 30 minutes from pretty much anywhere in the DC Metro area, which then was far smaller than it is today. This also meant that the next morning's commute wasn't nearly as much of a PITA as it's been in recent decades.
I don't understand this. If some pitchers handle the faster pace more poorly than others, this is also going to help the careers of those better suited for pitching in more entertaining games. Those games should attract more fans and make the game stronger, ultimately increasing pay and more likely to create additional jobs through expansion.
Baseball isn't and shouldn't be static. 50 years ago you were expected to pitch at a faster pace, and slowly over time pace slowed as intelligent pitchers milked every possible advantage. Now it's time to adjust again and if you can't you just don't deserve to be a MLB pitcher in this era.
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