The article doesn't give much relevant info beyond the excerpt, but it sounds to me like this is one of those "we're hoping he doesn't need the serious surgery, so we're doing this alternative instead and hoping for the best" procedures. Of all the times Boston has pursued this, I think it has avoided the more serious surgery exactly zero times.

Maybe they'll sign Carlos Correa next week after he fails his physical.

I'm always confused why these things aren't found earlier in the offseason or, in the case of the Red Sox sorry 2022, before the season ends. 4-6 months, if he'd gone under the knife in Sept, he might be ready by spring training. Then, if he's gonna miss 4-6 months anyway, why not just do the full-blown surgery -- it's not very likely that getting Story back in mid-June/July is gonna lead the Red Sox to the playoffs. So do this procedure, bring him back to play half a season of pretty meaningless games just to watch this thing go pop and put him under the knife again and miss all of 2024 too?

Oh well, I wish him the best.

Maybe they'll sign Carlos Correa next week after he fails his physical.

To the same deal they offered X. :-)

I'm always confused why these things aren't found earlier in the offseason or, in the case of the Red Sox sorry 2022, before the season ends.

Sometimes the injury happens in the offseason. But usually (and likely in this case), they hoped it would improve by now and not need surgery, but it didn't. It seems like it never improves and the surgery is always needed, but that's selection bias.

I get that, but by Sept you know if a guy is coming back this summer or not and you can make this call three or four months earlier. I et wanted to avoid the big cut, but in the end it happens more often than not.

The " ole I thought it would go away with rest but now I'm
Going to miss the season with TJS" trick

Does anything serious ever just go away with rest ?

As fans, I think it's easy to forget the human side of surgery. You want to avoid it if you can. If that means you might miss a couple of months of baseball that you'd rather not miss, you probably are willing to make that tradeoff.

Does anything serious ever just go away with rest ?

I think the answer is Yes, but we don't usually hear about it.

Back in 2015 Masahiro Tanaka for the Yankees was diagnosed with a partially torn UCL. NY said three doctors recommended against surgery, so he got a platelet-rich plasma injection and six weeks of rehab instead. That was the optimistic timeline and proved accurate for him. That's the only example I know of whereby a player successfully sidestepped TJ Surgery, but I'm sure there are some others.

Does anything serious ever just go away with rest ?

Sleep deprivation?

Going to miss the season with TJS" trick

TJS: Trevor John Story. It all makes sense now.

Boy, it is not like the Red Sox are in a position of strength to deal with Story's absence.

At second base, the depth chart goes something like:
Story
Hernandez (if you take him out of CF)
Arroyo
Niko Goodrum
Enmanuel Valdez

At shortstop, they don't have a guy above AA right now.

Worse signing than Fat Panda, because it brought the negative value of losing Bogaerts.

That's the only example I know of whereby a player successfully sidestepped TJ Surgery, but I'm sure there are some others.

There's some value to delaying TJ surgery, as well. IIRC, Greg Holland could have gotten TJ surgery in 2014, but elected to defer until 2016. That meant he got to participate in two World Series runs, establish himself as an elite closer, and get a big contract later. As it worked out, 97% of his career earnings came after 2014, even though he missed 2016 with TJ.

I read this as “Red Sox’ Trevor Will Miss Story Time” which was just so sad.

Bridge To Terriblia is the story.


am
i
rite

14 - I'd probably put Arroyo above Hernandez right now, but you have to plan for when someone slides into him and body parts fly everywhere.

Well I suppose they could get either a SS or a 2B or a CF to fill this but… man you have to start to think 2023 is a sunk cost and they should spend it sorting through 2024 options.

I don’t know. The team feels like a mess. And not even a particularly interesting mess. And if you’re gonna be a mess then damnit be an interesting one.

Per Speier, Bloom says they will look for one or more middle infielders for 2023.

I don’t know. The team feels like a mess. And not even a particularly interesting mess. And if you’re gonna be a mess then damnit be an interesting one.

This is a pretty good summation of how I (and think much of Red Sox Nation) feels about this emerging 2023 team: We're cool with the team rebuilding...but then rebuild! Playing Hernandez at 2B (or CF, for that matter) has nothing to do with the next time the Red Sox will have their #### together. Neither will Jansen as the closer, for that matter.

Our best prospect is Marcelo Mayer. You know how we got him? We had the #4 pick in the draft, because we sucked in 2020, just sucked. We tanked 2020.

Justin Turner. Kenley Jansen. Enrique Hernandez. Chris Martin. Corey Kluber. These are our biggest acquisitions this winter, and you know what they all have in common?

- Short-term contracts
- They are all pretty old
- None of them will be here in 2025, guaranteed
- Together, they will cost about $50m in 2023

What are we doing? Instead of signing Turner, just let Enmanuel Valdez take a crack at DH against righties, and Dalbec hits against lefties or something. They are taking up two 40-man spots, anyway, so either use their bat-first skills or get rid of them.

This team not only sucks - they are boring and rudderless. How can you spend over $200m on a roster and not have a 2B or SS?

As fans, I think it's easy to forget the human side of surgery. You want to avoid it if you can. If that means you might miss a couple of months of baseball that you'd rather not miss, you probably are willing to make that tradeoff.

Sure but this is a very different situation that most of us humans. I mean missing a couple of months of baseball for me ... :-) But more relevantly, my profession doesn't have a several month offseason and my job performance doesn't depend on whether my elbow (or hip or whatever) and I don't have a time-limited but guaranteed contract. In general my employer doesn't care when I miss two months ... not that there are really many scenarios where I'd have an injury that cost me even two months.

But it's also true that I've known teaching professors to schedule elective surgery for the summer, female academics who tried to schedule pregnancies around dissertation, tenure, etc. schedules.

so he got a platelet-rich plasma injection and six weeks of rehab instead.

This I get, this is hoping you can swap 6 weeks for 1+ seasons of missed time. This apparrently is more along the lines of swapping missing 4 months instead of missing 6 months. Again, if they said something like "Story is expected to return in mid-April" then I could understand why you'd go this course.

So I probably wasn't clear. (1) Why wasn't this diagnosed and treated earlier but also (2) now that we know, what is the point of a procedure that requires you to miss 2/3 of a season in hopes of avoiding a procedure that requires you to miss a full season. And (2) sorta informs (1) -- if this had been taken care of 4 momths ago, Story might start spring on time, that's a tradeoff worth making maybe. Obviously I'm not a doctor so there might be other facts in play here -- return rate from this procedure is 100% but it's only 80% from TJS or something.

As to early detection, while obviously you can't force unnecessary privately funded healthcare down an empoloyee's throat, why not at least try to send every player under long-term contract for a physical and MRI at season's end? But sure, maybe Story had zero issues with his elbow last year and this only popped up a couple of weeks ago. Obviously nothing could be done. Me, I get suspicious anytime a good defensive SS ends up at 2B in favor of a (seemingly) less good defensive SS. I know there are plenty of other possible explanations but "Story's right arm is f'd" doesn't seem a very surprising headline.

I'm always confused why these things aren't found earlier in the offseason or, in the case of the Red Sox sorry 2022, before the season ends.

Story's elbow injury happened in May of 2021. Story talking about his elbow. Maybe, just maybe, the Sox could have suggested surgery in Sept of '22 so he'd be completely ready for '23. Maybe they did and this is on Story, I figure we'll know that in about 48 hours or so by a random leak or two.

Sure but this is a very different situation that most of us humans. I mean missing a couple of months of baseball for me ... :-) But more relevantly, my profession doesn't have a several month offseason and my job performance doesn't depend on whether my elbow (or hip or whatever) and I don't have a time-limited but guaranteed contract. In general my employer doesn't care when I miss two months ... not that there are really many scenarios where I'd have an injury that cost me even two months.

But it's also true that I've known teaching professors to schedule elective surgery for the summer, female academics who tried to schedule pregnancies around dissertation, tenure, etc. schedules.

Seems like we're talking about different things. I'm saying that people often avoid surgery if possible, because surgery is not fun and presents dangers. They will often put it off until they're certain it's necessary.

Maybe, just maybe, the Sox could have suggested surgery in Sept of '22 so he'd be completely ready for '23.

Maybe they did suggest it. And maybe he didn't want to do it until it was clearly his only option.

Per Speier, Bloom says they will look for one or more middle infielders for 2023.

Not saying they shouldn't do this (they should!), but does that mean Hernandez will stay in CF? If he moves to 2B or SS they'll need something better than Duran at CF, right?

Sorry--it's just a complete mess (and was before this happened too). Not a 100-loss season mess, but given the rest of division, I'm just coming around to the idea that tanking is the way to go here. God forbid they do something like trade Casas for a Marlins starting P. Just play the kids. Do goofy things to try to take advantage of the new rules. Again--fans will forgive a mess if it's an interesting mess and they see where the path is going.

I'm sorry, but tanking would have been stupid. It would have meant trading Devers, which would have made the team less interesting. 2020 was less interesting without Betts. Justin Turner is more interesting than Bobby Dalbec. Their depth is poor enough that there will be ample opportunity to play the kids. Duran is one of the kids, so I'm not sure why you would complain about him getting a chance if you want an interesting mess. The 120 innings from the new relievers they signed won't block anyone interesting.

I'm sorry, but tanking would have been stupid. It would have meant trading Devers, which would have made the team less interesting.

They could have chosen not to spend $50M on mediocrities and still kept Devers.

Maybe, just maybe, the Sox could have suggested surgery in Sept of '22 so he'd be completely ready for '23.

Maybe they did suggest it. And maybe he didn't want to do it until it was clearly his only option.

Yes, that's literally what my 2nd sentence started with -

Maybe they did and this is on Story

I'm sorry, but tanking would have been stupid. It would have meant trading Devers, which would have made the team less interesting.

They could have chosen not to spend $50M on mediocrities and still kept Devers.

Sure. That would have resulted in a worse team and probably a more boring one. I'd rather watch Yoshida than a cheaper mediocrity. There is still plenty of opportunity for any young OFs.

Sure. That would have resulted in a worse team and probably a more boring one. I'd rather watch Yoshida than a cheaper mediocrity. There is still plenty of opportunity for any young OFs.

Yoshida wasn't who I really had in mind. He should be useful for a while.

Jasen, Martin, and to a lesser extent Turner seem pointless. They don't make the team much better, and they'll all be gone in a year or two. In the bullpen especially, if you're not going to contend, try out a bunch of live arms and see if you can find some guys who might contribute for the next 5 years. For DH, run a few AAAA sluggers out there and see if you can find someone. Save the money for the next really good player you want to sign.

Jasen, Martin, and to a lesser extent Turner seem pointless. They don't make the team much better, and they'll all be gone in a year or two. In the bullpen especially, if you're not going to contend, try out a bunch of live arms and see if you can find some guys who might contribute for the next 5 years. For DH, run a few AAAA sluggers out there and see if you can find someone. Save the money for the next really good player you want to sign.

Yeah, I can respect this point of view. But with the bullpen, they still will have ample opportunity to try out a bunch of live arms.

Sure. That would have resulted in a worse team and probably a more boring one. I'd rather watch Yoshida than a cheaper mediocrity. There is still plenty of opportunity for any young OFs.

Neither the Devers extension nor the Yoshida signing were mentioned in the tanking strategy. Specifically - Justin Turner. Kenley Jansen. Enrique Hernandez. Chris Martin. Corey Kluber. - are the signings that point to a "well we should sign *somebody* right?" thinking. I've defended the Martin signing as a risk that the Sox should take, pay money and hope he's good enough to trade for a prospect or two, but I can't imagine the Sox get anything from any of the other guys. Even if Kluber does well, he's going to be 38 in '24, would anyone pay more than $11M for the year?

Did I blame the Red Sox? Maybe I did but I think I made it clear that of course Story gets the final decision. So sure, the Sox may have asked, he may have said no.

I'm saying that people often avoid surgery if possible, because surgery is not fun and presents dangers.

Sure but he underwent an "internal bracing procedure" which sounds a lot like surgery to me. Again it's not just "why wasn't this done 4 months ago?" it's "if you've decided that an 'internal procedure' is necessary and your choice is between the one that might fix the problem and will take 2-4 months to recover and the one that will fix the problem (to the extent it will be fixed) and will take 6 months to recover, why not go with the one more likely to fix the problem?"

I totally understand doing everything short of surgery before going to surgery. I totally understand trying something "scopic" before going under the knife. And maybe there is something much simpler, safer, more certain about this surgery that would tilt a patient heavily in its favor. But this sounds like under the knife and 2/3 of a season with a substantial risk of still needing TJS later vs under the knife and an entire season. Now if "internal bracing procedure" is non-invasive or far less invasive then great. It would be nice if somebody had explained some of the differences between the procedures.

On tanking vs not ... even when you tank, somebody's got to pitch those innings. Having a few guys around who have done it before is a good idea. Especially for a team like the Red Sox, you don't want to become a laughingstock with the rotation with a 6.00 ERA and a bullpen that can't even hold the few 6-3 leads you get. And with the lottery, there's less reward from winning 50 games.

Even if Kluber does well, he's going to be 38 in '24, would anyone pay more than $11M for the year?

Maybe he'd stay for that, if he has a good 2023 and likes it here.

The best thing I can say for his 2022 season was that he K'd 139 and walked 21, in 165 innings.

Arroyo can play SS vaguely passably. Given how the rest of the team is structured, Arroyo and Hernandez as the middle infielders doesn't seem to make them that much worse than before. As badly set-up as they are, they probably should have traded Devers and just dumped for a mostly-teardown. That 2021 run gave false hope to the team.

Maybe he'd stay for that, if he has a good 2023 and likes it here.

It's a team option, so Kluber will be for it if he's good enough. It can actually go up to $13M for the option based on '23 performance.

Why wasn't this diagnosed and treated earlier . . .

The official story is that Story felt discomfort late last month when ramping up his throwing program, with subsequent testing indicating surgery was needed. Hindsight is 20-20, but was there really any indication surgery was the best option prior to that setback?

Yeesh...this team is now taking on a mid-90s Royals feel. I guess maybe Cedanne Rafaella could be the new 2B, with Kike Hernandez at SS and Arroyo as utility. Which means Duran needs to produce immediately...now or never! Please, though, no Jeter Downs.

Please, though, no Jeter Downs.

Good news, he's in the Nationals organization now!

Hindsight is 20-20, but was there really any indication surgery was the best option prior to that setback?

I think its reasonable to think that the player and the team knew at an early stage that surgery was always on the table. BUt probably a lot of times, the player nurses it along during the off season hoping everything will be fine. Then they get a setback close to the season start and the options are 1) fix for real and miss the entire season, 2) try something halfway and maybe get to play later.

As Walt points out, lots of times it seems we end up with a half measure that doesnt work and logically it made no sense.

But given where we are at this point in time, perhaps it makes sense from the player stand point to take a chance and maybe get to play this year vs not playing at all.