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Thursday, September 25, 2008

Report: Teammates considered hurting Ichiro

Meh, no biggie…Richie Sexson would have swung and missed.

Ichiro is so unpopular in the Seattle Mariners’ clubhouse that teammates considered physical harm to the All-Star outfielder earlier this season, the Seattle Times reported.

The turmoil on the team peaked in May as the team Ichiro got off to a slow start, the Times reported.

“I just can’t believe the number of guys who really dislike him,” one clubhouse insider said, newspaper reported. “It got to a point early on when I thought they were going to get together and go after him.”

John McLaren, the Mariners’ manager at the time, reportedly intervened when he hear overheard a player talking about Ichiro, saying he wanted to “knock him out.” A team meeting was called, the newspaper reported.

Repoz Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:18 PM | 57 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mariners

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   1. The Original SJ Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:27 PM (#2954790)
we'll take him.
   2. I Am Not a Number Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:29 PM (#2954796)
My first instinct was to criticize The Onion for such a lame piece. Then I saw that this wasn't The Onion at all.
   3. aleskel Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#2954799)
According to the Times, there are clubhouse complaints that Ichiro should have rested to heal injuries

wow, that's the complete inverse of what you normally hear.
   4. Greg Pope Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:34 PM (#2954806)
Somebody mouthing off about knocking a guy out is not the same thing as actually considering physical harm.
   5. Alex Vila Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:38 PM (#2954811)
wow, that's the complete inverse of what you normally hear.

Unless you're Cal Ripken Jr.
   6. BFFB Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:41 PM (#2954814)
According to the Times, there are clubhouse complaints that Ichiro should have rested to heal injuries


Isn't it kind of up to the management structure to do that part if the player won't himself....
   7. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:43 PM (#2954815)
Those Mariners should worry less about Ichiro and more about figuring out how not to suck.
   8. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:44 PM (#2954819)
MSNBC making #### up, what else is new?
   9. Cris E Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:46 PM (#2954822)
"The bastard won't take time to heal, so we should HURT him!" "Yeah!"

Whatever. You hear a lot of lame stuff in a clubhouse like Seattle's: not a good team, some misguided expectations going into the season, lots of turnover among veterans as the ship changes course in mid-season, an outsider superstar not carrying the team to success, etc. Grow up.

And anyone reporting this without including a bit of context (such as describing who is talking beyond "insider") also needs to read up on professionalism.
   10. Gromit Posted: September 25, 2008 at 04:55 PM (#2954832)
Uh...oh! The Mariners just signed Tonya Harding to a three-day contract.
   11. bfan Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2954839)
"an outsider superstar not carrying the team to success".

Can someone explain to me how a guy with a 2008 OPS+ of 103 and a lifetime OPS+ of 117 is a "super-star". I have never understand the Ichiro love. I understand he is a cool guy, with the one-name thing going and the neato stretching exercise, but all of the singles to LF aside, the limited walks and relative lack of power from a corner outfielder make him...pretty good?
   12. Hubie Brooks (Not Really) Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2954841)
I have a list of Met RP that I would like taken care of.
   13. Jesus Luzardo Maraschino Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:04 PM (#2954842)
But he gives an awesome all star pregame speech!
   14. 185/456(GGC) Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:04 PM (#2954844)
Uh...oh! The Mariners just signed Tonya Harding to a three-day contract.


How Snowy! I guess they really are looking to put him on ice.
   15. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:04 PM (#2954846)
I think going after Ichiro would be a mistake. He'd probably beat their asses.
   16. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:17 PM (#2954861)
I think going after Ichiro would be a mistake. He'd probably beat their asses.

They Call Him Bruce.
   17. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:22 PM (#2954866)
I think going after Ichiro would be a mistake. He'd probably beat their asses.

Really, after seeing what he did to Lucy Liu in "Kill Bill", you'd think they'd know better.
   18. aleskel Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:25 PM (#2954871)
Can someone explain to me how a guy with a 2008 OPS+ of 103 and a lifetime OPS+ of 117 is a "super-star".

add in his terrific outfield play and baserunning (seriously, look at his CS%) and you have a guy that, when not in a down year such as this, is one of the best outfielders in the game
   19. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2954874)
Seattle teammate: "Hey, Ichiro. What are you doing after the game tonight?"

Ichiro: (in Japanese) "Nothing much. Get some dinner, get to bed early."

Ichiro's translator: "Your mom."



So, Seattle was predicted to be in the playoff hunt pre-season, they had serious clubhouse issues, and are now finishing the season with 100 losses. If that's not proof positive of how essential team chemistry is...
   20. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:28 PM (#2954876)
The old "blame the best player on the team" schtick.
   21. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:29 PM (#2954878)
Can someone explain to me how a guy with a 2008 OPS+ of 103 and a lifetime OPS+ of 117 is a "super-star". I have never understand the Ichiro love. I understand he is a cool guy, with the one-name thing going and the neato stretching exercise, but all of the singles to LF aside, the limited walks and relative lack of power from a corner outfielder make him...pretty good?


Well, for one thing, he's really a decent center fielder who seems to prefer playing in right. I guess I think of his situation as analogous to Alex Rodriguez's--I still think of him a shortstop playing out of position for mostly stupid managerial reasons.
   22. Baldrick Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:29 PM (#2954880)
Is your claim to not understand why Ichiro is a star genuine, or are you just trying to make a rhetorical trick? If it's the latter fine, but if it's the former, I think this may be one of the extremely rare instances where it's perfectly legit to say "get your nose out of a spreadsheet and go watch a game!"
   23. Scott Lange Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:31 PM (#2954881)
So, Seattle was predicted to be in the playoff hunt pre-season, they had serious clubhouse issues, and are now finishing the season with 100 losses. If that's not proof positive of how essential team chemistry is...


... then isolated anecdotes don't prove anything anymore!
   24. Rally Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:34 PM (#2954888)
add in his terrific outfield play and baserunning (seriously, look at his CS%) and you have a guy that, when not in a down year such as this, is one of the best outfielders in the game


The non-SB baserunning is very good too, his throwing arm has been well above average, and he almost never hits into double plays - probably about 10 fewer DP per year than an average player would have in his opportunities. I think he reaches on error more often than average as well. Add all this up, and you take a guy who's in the +10 to +15 range (offensive runs above average) and push him into the +25-+30 range.

But deserved or not, this looks like a bad situation for Ichiro. Considering how bad the Mariners are, it might make sense to keep Ichiro and get rid of all his teammates that have problems with him (assuming Felix is not one of them, Beltre is a FA after 2009 so don't worry about him). But more likely, Ichiro will need a change of scenery. Maybe he'll be a Yankee in 2009.
   25. bfan Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:36 PM (#2954892)
"The old "blame the best player on the team" schtick."

I didn't see any mention of Felix Hernandez or Raul Ibanez; oh, I am sorry: "Felix!" and "Raul!"
   26. bunyon Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2954900)
Turns out they really did try to hurt him but they suck at that too.
   27. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:44 PM (#2954903)
I didn't read the article, but from what I'm gathering, they don't like him because he won't take time off to heal injuries? I figured if a large portion of your team wants to physically harm you, it's a result of prima donna antics like wearing gaudy furs and insisting on having exotic animals roaming throughout the clubhouse on a day-to-day basis.
   28. RJ in TO Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:46 PM (#2954906)
I figured if a large portion of your team wants to physically harm you, it's a result of prima donna antics like wearing gaudy furs and insisting on having exotic animals roaming throughout the clubhouse on a day-to-day basis.


So that's why my co-workers keep giving me the evil eye.
   29. Shredder Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:46 PM (#2954908)
Speaking of the Mariners, Francisco Rodriguez reduced his magic number over the Mariners to 1 last night. He's clinched no worse than a tie with Seattle.
   30. Halofan Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:47 PM (#2954909)
#25, that's "KING Felix" and Rauuuuuuuuul" ...
   31. Justin T's pasta pass was not revoked Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:56 PM (#2954924)
Uh...oh! The Mariners just signed Tonya Harding to a three-day contract.

Day 1: Purchase baton.
Day 2: Club Ichiro! with it.
Day 3: Produce sex tape with Chuck Armstrong.
   32. Cabbage Posted: September 25, 2008 at 05:56 PM (#2954925)
I figured if a large portion of your team wants to physically harm you, it's a result of prima donna antics like wearing gaudy furs and insisting on having exotic animals roaming throughout the clubhouse on a day-to-day basis.

That isn't a nice thing to say about Pedro's little friend.
   33. Gamingboy Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:00 PM (#2954930)
Ichiro would be able to defeat them all.
   34. bfan Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:08 PM (#2954941)
"Turns out they really did try to hurt him but they suck at that too."

Based on prior history, the safest person in a clubhouse where Richie Sexon is trying to hit someone specific is the person Richie Sexon is trying to hit.
   35. Greg Franklin Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:11 PM (#2954944)
Zumsteg claims the “knock him out” guy is Carlos Silva:

Linkie
   36. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:18 PM (#2954951)
I think going after Ichiro would be a mistake. He'd probably beat their asses.

Just like that little dude at the end of the Scorpio Simpsons episode.
   37. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:23 PM (#2954955)
Ichiro would be able to defeat them all.

....with the zeal of a challenger!
   38. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:24 PM (#2954957)
Zumsteg claims the “knock him out” guy is Carlos Silva:

Even if he is claiming that (Silva could be read as a hypothetical), he's not backing it up with anything.
   39. Spahn Insane Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:28 PM (#2954958)
The Mariners are starting to remind me of the New England Patriots of the early '90s--an utterly sucktastic team that's completely dysfunctional and unlikeable even apart from the losing.
   40. SoSH U at work Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:32 PM (#2954959)
Zumsteg claims the “knock him out” guy is Carlos Silva:

Linkie


I think that's a Trubyesque kind of reading you're doing there, unless Zumsteg has written about this somewhere else.
   41. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:32 PM (#2954960)
Just like that little dude at the end of the Scorpio Simpsons episode.

Nerd alert:

It was the Marge pretzel episode, not the Scorpio episode.
   42. Guy LeDouche Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:38 PM (#2954963)
"They Call Him Bruce."


Best. Movies. Ever.
   43. Esteban Rivera Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:42 PM (#2954971)
Ichiro would be able to defeat them all.


I just flashed to the end scene of the Jet Li movie The One. Ichiro looking down at the others, yelling "I Ichiro, I no one's #####, you all mine!" and proceeds to just beat up everybody else.
   44. Greg Franklin Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:45 PM (#2954978)
I think that's a Trubyesque kind of reading you're doing there, unless Zumsteg has written about this somewhere else.

Check the last para of that post (I misidentified the writer -- it was Cameron, not Zumsteg). They have both written multiple times about Silva's lashing out at teammates throughout the year. I would say it's more than a blind guess, less than a cite.
   45. SoSH U at work Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:50 PM (#2954982)
Check the last para of that post (I misidentified the writer -- it was Cameron, not Zumsteg). They have both written multiple times about Silva's lashing out at teammates throughout the year. I would say it's more than a blind guess, less than a cite.


I read the last paragraph, and it read more like a "insert any crappy Mariner here" as an example rather than a specific claim that Silva is the source. But if they've written about that before, and I allowed for the possibility, then it probably is more of an educated guess.
   46. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2954984)

It was the Marge pretzel episode, not the Scorpio episode.


You, sir, are absolutely correct. <hangs head in shame>
   47. Dr Stankus and the Semicolons Posted: September 25, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#2954987)
So, Seattle was predicted to be in the playoff hunt pre-season, they had serious clubhouse issues, and are now finishing the season with 100 losses. If that's not proof positive of how essential team chemistry is...


Correlation does not equal causation.

The bad season could just as easily have caused the bad team chemistry.
   48. Shredder Posted: September 25, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2955004)
You, sir, are absolutely correct. <hangs head in shame>
Actually, I believe the phrase you're looking for is: "Forgiveness, please!" (or "Fogivaness, prease!" if you want to say it like the character did).
   49. rfloh Posted: September 25, 2008 at 07:30 PM (#2955016)
I read the last paragraph, and it read more like a "insert any crappy Mariner here" as an example rather than a specific claim that Silva is the source. But if they've written about that before, and I allowed for the possibility, then it probably is more of an educated guess.


Silva has been quoted in the Seattle papers, on the records, as lashing out at his teammates. So it's not just "insert any crappy Mariner here".
   50. Rally Posted: September 25, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#2955034)
If it's just Silva they can just release him. It hurts to be on the hook for 3 years and 36 million, but not as much as paying that money and having to put Silva in your rotation.
   51. BaseballObscura Posted: September 25, 2008 at 08:14 PM (#2955079)
If it's just Silva they can just release him. It hurts to be on the hook for 3 years and 36 million, but not as much as paying that money and having to put Silva in your rotation.


I find it fascinating that this past off-season, Carlos Silva was able to wrangle a 4 year/48 million dollar deal, while Kyle Lohse despite having a similar track record, and being the same age was only able to get a 1 year/4.25 million dollar deal.

Now this offseason someone will probably give Lohse a Silva-esque deal, and I wouldn't be surprised if he went Silva-esque next year.
   52. Tiboreau Posted: September 25, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2955091)
I don’t care what a bunch of replacement level, washed up, overpaid and entitled career losers think about Ichiro’s efforts or value, and neither should the M’s front office. If Carlos Silva thinks Ichiro is selfish, then maybe Carlos Silva should look into being more selfish and pitching well enough to win a game once in a while.

The point seems to me to be less about Silva, or about guessing which player it is, than about the fact that the majority of the players are worth much less than Ichiro is and shouldn't be complaining about someone who isn't the reason for the teams failures.
   53. Tiboreau Posted: September 25, 2008 at 08:25 PM (#2955099)
"The old "blame the best player on the team" schtick."

I didn't see any mention of Felix Hernandez or Raul Ibanez; oh, I am sorry: "Felix!" and "Raul!"


Of course, Raul spent the first four months of last year with the same injury also, and played through it and played abysmally.

And yes, the worst defensive LF in the AL is a better overall ballplayer than Ichiro Suzuki. . . .
   54. Billy B Posted: September 25, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2955122)
Come on. No Hawk Harrelson? Mercy!
   55. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: September 26, 2008 at 12:48 AM (#2955626)
So, Seattle was predicted to be in the playoff hunt pre-season, they had serious clubhouse issues, and are now finishing the season with 100 losses. If that's not proof positive of how essential team chemistry is...


Seattle was predicted to be in the playoff hunt by mainstream writers who were taken in by a lucky win total in 2007 and the Bedard trade. Various projections (Zips (post 55) and Cairo) had them under 80 wins.
   56. AJMcCringleberry Posted: September 26, 2008 at 01:33 AM (#2955784)
Seattle was predicted to be in the playoff hunt by mainstream writers who were taken in by a lucky win total in 2007 and the Bedard trade. Various projections (Zips (post 55) and Cairo) had them under 80 wins.

Are you saying Steve Phillips may not know what he's talking about?
   57. ValueArb Posted: September 26, 2008 at 04:25 AM (#2956380)
Ichiro is a heck of a player with great bat control and batting eye who could increase his value by taking more walks, but that would depress his all important hit totals. He'd be more valuable in centerfield, but doesn't want to play it for some reason even though he did in Japan.

So how is it surprising that his team-mates find him selfish?

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