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Saturday, January 04, 2020

Report: Wild boar behind Yoenis Cespedes’ ankle injury

Things are rarely boring with the New York Mets.

The latest example: a wild boar and Yoenis Cespedes.

The New York Post reported Friday that the fractured ankle Cespedes suffered in the spring came from a bizarre incident the injury-plagued outfielder had with an animal at his ranch in Port St. Lucie, Florida.

News of the injury itself isn’t new. Mets general manager Brodie Van Wagenen told reporters in May that Cespedes suffered multiple right ankle fractures in what he called a “violent” fall on the outfielder’s ranch that was not baseball-related. Details of what happened hadn’t come out until the Post’s story Friday, however.

So, where does this rank in the listing of bizarre injuries to baseball players?

 

QLE Posted: January 04, 2020 at 01:06 AM | 147 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: injury, mets being mets, wild boar, yoenis cespedes

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   1. Howie Menckel Posted: January 04, 2020 at 01:25 AM (#5912774)
where does

lugging deer meat fit in?

Glenallen Hill and his spider dream?

I yield the balance of my time to other primates
   2. Walt Davis Posted: January 04, 2020 at 03:04 AM (#5912778)
I think this is probably #1. C'mon, wild boar. In the 21st century. In the US.

Steve Trout once claimed he hurt himself getting off a stationary bike. Jose Cardenal once took a day off citing sticky eyelids but I'm pretty sure he was joking. (Possibly he meant he had a stye.)
   3. Tin Angel Posted: January 04, 2020 at 03:12 AM (#5912779)
I'm going to wait for Ray's opinion on this one.
   4. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 04, 2020 at 06:28 AM (#5912782)
Joel Zumaya got knocked out of the playoffs by hurting himself playing Guitar Hero.
   5. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 04, 2020 at 07:19 AM (#5912785)

So, now I'm curious what language it was in his contract that prohibited this type of activity. Like, was it just a blanket ban on farm-related activities, or activities involving wild animals? Or was there a specific wild-boar clause?

I mean, I would have to go back and look, but I don't think the standard UPC language has language that would cover an accident of this nature.
   6. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: January 04, 2020 at 07:32 AM (#5912786)
C'mon, wild boar. In the 21st century. In the US.
"Wild boar" in the US are really feral pigs, sometimes with some interbreeding with European wild boar. They certainly look like wild boars -- bristly, with an elongated snout and often tusks. There are something like 6 million of them in the US, they are a huge agricultural pest, and a month or two ago a woman in Texas was killed by one. My uncle outside of Dallas has shot several of them while standing on his back porch. I'd guess that every serious rancher in the South has some sort of anti-wild boar setup, even if it's just a dude with a hunting rifle going out in the pickup once a week. What's weird about Cespedes' injury is that he got close enough to let the animal charge him, rather than just shooting it right away.
   7. The Duke Posted: January 04, 2020 at 07:39 AM (#5912787)
I can’t believe how many wild boars there are where I live. I just moved to southern Georgia and had never even heard of them. There’s a wild boar story every week. Those animals are huge and mean.
   8. Smitty* Posted: January 04, 2020 at 09:15 AM (#5912790)
So Cespedes is Burrich?
   9. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 04, 2020 at 09:23 AM (#5912791)
Maybe the contract has a hunting exclusion? The Mets may have been advancing the theory that he was trapping tasty pigs.
   10. Omineca Greg Posted: January 04, 2020 at 10:12 AM (#5912797)
I should have learned by now not to toss around epithets
They've lead me to nothing but apologies and regrets
But when their outfielder's undone by a boar
I get hand, foot and mouth disease just like Thor
At least that's my excuse for snickering out, "###### Mets"
   11. Adam Starblind Posted: January 04, 2020 at 10:36 AM (#5912800)
This is literally how Robert Baratheon got killed.
   12. Smitty* Posted: January 04, 2020 at 10:52 AM (#5912801)
This is literally how Robert Baratheon got killed


That’s why I went with Burrich, leg injury instead of death
   13. Hot Wheeling American Posted: January 04, 2020 at 12:15 PM (#5912813)
Good podcast episode on the 30-50 feral hogs meme that took twitter by storm over the summer (for a day, then on to something else).
   14. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5912831)
So, now I'm curious what language it was in his contract that prohibited this type of activity.
Strange that the full story is still shrouded in mystery. MLB contracts don’t seem to exclude hunting, given how many players say they do it in the off-season. And a ranch owner supervising trapping a wild boar wouldn’t seem so obviously hazardous that it would clearly fall within a general prohibition on unduly hazardous activity, and cause Cespedes to give back so much money in the grievance settlement. However, attempting to copulate with a wild boar would be a different story. Just sayin’.
   15. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:34 PM (#5912838)
There’s a wild boar story every week. Those animals are huge and mean.

The existence of feral hogs is my go-to scenario for anyone who proclaims, "No one needs a [scary sounding gun name]." In Texas, it's legal to hunt them by helicopter using machine guns.
   16. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:39 PM (#5912839)
Jesus. Unless children are at risk, I'm rooting for the wild boars.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:39 PM (#5912840)
The existence of feral hogs is my go-to scenario for anyone who proclaims, "No one needs a [scary sounding gun name]." In Texas, it's legal to hunt them by helicopter using machine guns.
Right, because no ordinary shotgun would fell a hog.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:43 PM (#5912841)
The existence of feral hogs is my go-to scenario for anyone who proclaims, "No one needs a [scary sounding gun name]." In Texas, it's legal to hunt them by helicopter using machine guns.


There's a missing sentence here that explains that the hogs actually should be slaughtered en masse.
   19. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:45 PM (#5912843)
Right, because no ordinary shotgun would fell a hog.

An ordinary shotgun for hunting holds 3 shells. Take out the plug and you can get 5. Come up on a pack of a couple dozen feral hogs and... well...... hope you have a lot of those ordinary shotguns at hand not to mention people to use them.
   20. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:52 PM (#5912844)
There's a missing sentence here that explains that the hogs actually should be slaughtered en masse.


I really recommend the podcast linked in #13. In Texas, they kill 1,000,000 per year. They need to double that in order to merely maintain the population.

The nightmare scenario is that they contract African Swine Flu. If that happens, US exports of meat are shut off.
   21. PreservedFish Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:54 PM (#5912845)
To think that Texas is plagued by feral hogs at the very same time that people are eagerly eating plant-based "meat."
   22. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: January 04, 2020 at 02:57 PM (#5912846)
A Plague of Pigs in Texas

Wild hogs are among the most destructive invasive species in the United States today. Two million to six million of the animals are wreaking havoc in at least 39 states and four Canadian provinces; half are in Texas, where they do some $400 million in damages annually. They tear up recreational areas, occasionally even terrorizing tourists in state and national parks, and squeeze out other wildlife.

Texas allows hunters to kill wild hogs year-round without limits or capture them alive to take to slaughterhouses to be processed and sold to restaurants as exotic meat. Thousands more are shot from helicopters. The goal is not eradication, which few believe possible, but control.


They have no natural predators, and there are no legal poisons to use against them. Sows begin breeding at 6 to 8 months of age and have two litters of four to eight piglets—a dozen is not unheard of—every 12 to 15 months during a life span of 4 to 8 years. Even porcine populations reduced by 70 percent return to full strength within two or three years.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: January 04, 2020 at 03:23 PM (#5912851)
I am aware that feral pigs are an issue. That doesn't reduce the irony that feral pigs are a 21st century problem in the most "advanced" country in the world and one caused a major baseball injury.
   24. Adam Starblind Posted: January 04, 2020 at 03:29 PM (#5912852)
I am aware that feral pigs are an issue.


That makes one of us. Plus Cespedes, I guess.
   25. Adam Starblind Posted: January 04, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5912853)

An ordinary shotgun for hunting holds 3 shells. Take out the plug and you can get 5. Come up on a pack of a couple dozen feral hogs and... well...... hope you have a lot of those ordinary shotguns at hand not to mention people to use them.


And to think that King Robert was trying to do it with a war hammer.
   26. Howie Menckel Posted: January 04, 2020 at 03:49 PM (#5912857)
I find the idea of boars in one's neighborhood unfathomable - yet I have seen bears in my condo complex, and there was a gang of a dozen wild turkeys who strolled around in packs for a whole. Coyotes all over the place, too.
   27. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 04, 2020 at 04:38 PM (#5912865)
Come up on a pack of a couple dozen feral hogs
Yes, I’m sure that’s an extraordinarily common occurrence for the dudes who feel the need to bring semiautomatic weapons to restaurants and Walmart and such. Never know when you’ll be attacked by a couple dozen feral pigs.
   28. PreservedFish Posted: January 04, 2020 at 05:15 PM (#5912869)
You can't be too careful, Elroy. Apparently four people have died in feral hog attacks "since the late 1880s." And only three of them were hunting the hogs to begin with.
   29. A triple short of the cycle Posted: January 04, 2020 at 06:28 PM (#5912881)
Feral pigs rampaging through WalMart sounds pretty cool.
   30. Traderdave Posted: January 04, 2020 at 06:48 PM (#5912885)
An ordinary shotgun for hunting holds 3 shells. Take out the plug and you can get 5. Come up on a pack of a couple dozen feral hogs and... well...... hope you have a lot of those ordinary shotguns at hand not to mention people to use them.


I've bagged approximately 2 dozen wild pigs over the years, most with a bow, a few with a rifle. Of those, nearly all were taken from a group (called a "sounder" of pigs) that ranged in size from 3 to 10, though on one occasion in Sonoma County it was a large group of at least 3 or 4 dozen.

In every case of that medium sample size, the entire group ran off at first sound/sign of trouble. Usually that was combo of the bow's noise followed by a one of their teammates wailing after a hit. The 2 or 3 times I used a rifle it was the shot noise, but each time they ran off. Pigs are fast as hell, by the way. These aren't fat barnyard hogs laying around all day, they are strong and tough wild animals.

I'm not saying pig hunting isn't dangerous because it certainly can be. I shoot from a protected position, such as behind a fallen tree or big rock, just in case they do charge me in response. If that were to happen, it would surely ruin my day, but it's important to note that flight ranks far ahead of flight for nearly any animal.

Point being, you're most likely gonna be OK with just 3 shots. They will run AWAY from you 100x more often than they will run toward you.
   31. puck Posted: January 04, 2020 at 07:09 PM (#5912891)
Wait til the Africanized killer wild pigs make it this far north. Then you'll be begging for an AR.
   32. Brian C Posted: January 05, 2020 at 12:58 AM (#5912968)
...it's important to note that flight ranks far ahead of flight for nearly any animal

I assume you mean "flight ranks far ahead of fight", and I agree 100%. In my experience, people vastly overrate the danger of wild animal encounters, even animals usually thought of as extremely dangerous like bears and wolves. Very few animals will attack a human without being provoked, and you can keep yourself safe in almost all cases just by being aware of your surroundings and behavior. But then, most people - even some people I know who should really know better - are terrified of even almost completely harmless animals like coyotes and bobcats.

That said, I've never encountered a wild boar. Just missed a close encounter once outside of Gainesville, FL - a guy we met on one of the paths inside Paynes Prairie breathlessly told us we had just missed it, but it was OK because his dog scared it off. We did see the buffalo that they reintroduced there a few decades ago, though, so the day was a success on the whole.
   33. A triple short of the cycle Posted: January 05, 2020 at 10:48 AM (#5913009)
I've bagged approximately 2 dozen wild pigs over the years, most with a bow,

And after he kills the wild pig with a bow and arrow, he makes sausage and brings it to the tailgate. Legend.
   34. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: January 05, 2020 at 11:53 AM (#5913018)
Wait, there are wild buffalo in Florida? This thread has really revealed my ignorance of mid and mega fauna in the south.
   35. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 05, 2020 at 12:02 PM (#5913022)
a guy we met on one of the paths inside Paynes Prairie breathlessly told us we had just missed it, but it was OK because his dog scared it off.
By ‘dog’ I assume you mean ‘AK-47.’
   36. Brian C Posted: January 05, 2020 at 10:08 PM (#5913135)
Wait, there are wild buffalo in Florida? This thread has really revealed my ignorance of mid and mega fauna in the south.

There's a small herd that was reintroduced in the 1970s. When I was at UF, I'd frequently head out to Paynes Prairie to try to find them, but never had any luck at the time. It's actually a pretty fascinating area - there's a pack of wild horses as well, and black bears ... never saw a bear either, but I did see a track once. And of course there's the usual Florida stuff, by which I mostly mean very poisonous snakes. I had an encounter with a diamondback one day that I'm very, very fortunate didn't end up badly for me.
By ‘dog’ I assume you mean ‘AK-47.’

I can understand why you'd think that, but no, it was an actual dog and the man appeared unarmed. Frankly it wasn't even a very big or menacing dog, and I suspect that the boar simply didn't give a crap about either of them and just went about its business.

Along these lines, I did once encounter a guy in Glacier National Park who made a point of showing off his handgun, though. He seemed to think it would help him if a grizzly attacked. I expressed some skepticism that it would do him much good in such a scenario, but that was not smart on my part, because it only made him defensive and I was actually a little concerned that he might want to demonstrate his firepower. But instead he just walked off sulking a bit. Idiots with guns are more frightening than wildlife, IMO.

   37. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 05, 2020 at 10:55 PM (#5913140)

To think that Texas is plagued by feral hogs at the very same time that people are eagerly eating plant-based "meat."


To think that Texas is plagued by feral hogs at the very same time that people are eagerly eating drugged, tortured animals.
   38. Howie Menckel Posted: January 05, 2020 at 10:55 PM (#5913141)
my favorite wild turkey story is from a couple of years ago, when I visited my brother's North Jersey house on Thanksgiving morning - and there was one standing on top of the backyard air conditioning unit, no more than 15 or 20 feet from the kitchen.

ah, the irony - but my sister-in-law had one of his relatives already half-cooked in the oven by then.

maybe the turkey figured we are like wild cats such as lions, who - once well-fed - are not in a mood (for a while) to chase after potential meals walking by. good guess, turkey!
   39. Omineca Greg Posted: January 05, 2020 at 11:11 PM (#5913145)
Bears are going buck wild...All over the world!

Especially Romania.

I dunno. Six Romanians were killed by brown bears in 2019. Could be worse, but it's more than I would have guessed. And that's just the fatalities, there are more attacks than that.
   40. Howie Menckel Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:51 AM (#5913156)
our New Jersey bears are black.

beyond my neighborhood, have encountered a couple of said bears "in the wild."

the advice here generally is true - unless they are starving, diseased, or panicked, you can just stroll past more large animals than you think.
   41. Richard Posted: January 06, 2020 at 06:15 AM (#5913158)
I live in an area with Wild Boars/wild pigs - it's sometimes hard to say which is which and there is cross breeding. See them on a regular basis, sometimes daily. You can walk right by them and they don't bother you, save in two situations: the mothers don't like it if you get between them and their piglets, and some of them, particularly the larger males, will try to fight with dogs.

We also have feral cattle, who are a nuisance because they eat garbage, but are otherwise harmless.
   42. Meatwad Posted: January 06, 2020 at 07:01 AM (#5913159)
A handgun is not a bad defense from a bear. If you are solo it might be your only hope to survive. In a lot of wilderness areas its not a bad idea to have a firearm with you.
   43. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 08:01 AM (#5913161)
To think that Texas is plagued by feral hogs at the very same time that people are eagerly eating drugged, tortured animals.


Fair point, Dave!
   44. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 08:05 AM (#5913162)
Bear spray is more effective than guns. And for you long-distance hikers, it weighs less too!
   45. Adam Starblind Posted: January 06, 2020 at 08:44 AM (#5913169)


Wait til the Africanized killer wild pigs make it this far north. Then you'll be begging for an AR.


my favorite wild turkey story is from a couple of years ago


Mine too. It involved a good friend having to leave his own birthday party.
   46. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:08 AM (#5913173)
So....

What is it about these "feral pigs" that makes them not "wild boar" - because I've only had boar a few times, but loved it. Of course, it was wonderfully braised so maybe it's just all in the preparation.

   47. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:38 AM (#5913183)
There's two main factors at play, genetics and lifestyle.

Most US pork has a very high percentage of lean meat, and less back fat. This meat is usually pale, and without much flavor. This is achieved both by selective breeding and by feeding them an unnatural diet and hugely limiting their activity.

Most heirloom breeds (and all the "wild boar" I've eaten, which has mostly been semi-wild, not hunted) have much darker meat. The heirlooms, which were originally bread for huge fat content, have a much higher ratio of fat to lean, and stronger flavor. Letting the pigs get out and exercise and forage for bugs and acorns and stuff results in a yummier animal, in my opinion. But the average American customer disagrees. Even the hip foodie customer that shops at trendy hipster butcher shops tends to prefer a pork chop that is large and pale and doesn't have much fat on it.

I'm not a true expert, but I suspect that the breeds favored for factory farming - the huge, white, almost hairless hogs - wouldn't stand much of a chance in the wild. I think the other breeds would stand a better chance. The feral pigs look like pretty woolly and healthy creatures, not the Jabba the Hut monsters you see at a factory farm...
   48. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:42 AM (#5913184)
So I actually think that "wild boar" meat may be more forgiving than generic pork, because it has more fat and more flavor. If you overcook a standard pork chop (very easy to do), it kind of sucks.

Curious to see Traderdave's thoughts. The truly wild boar meat can be pretty lean, because those critters were not bred to, for example, provide cooking fat for colonizers.
   49. flournoy Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:43 AM (#5913185)
Feral pigs were formerly or are descended from domesticated pigs, and thus have been genetically modified. The same as the difference between feral dogs and wolves, I suppose.
   50. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:49 AM (#5913187)
Asheville NC (pop ~90k, metro ~420k) has frequent black bear sightings (their minor league logo formerly showed a bear on vacation)- last time I was there with my then elementary school age kids, I spotted a pair in a cul-de-sac a few hundred feet from our airbnb, which turned our picnic into indoor dining time.
   51. flournoy Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:52 AM (#5913192)
If it weren't winter, just by walking outside I might see an alligator out sunning itself.
   52. Adam Starblind Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:55 AM (#5913193)


Wait til the Africanized killer wild pigs make it this far north. Then you'll be begging for an AR.


I'm still waiting for the killer bees.

my favorite wild turkey story is from a couple of years ago


Mine too. It involved a good friend having to leave his own birthday party.
   53. Traderdave Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:56 AM (#5913194)
What is it about these "feral pigs" that makes them not "wild boar" - because I've only had boar a few times, but loved it. Of course, it was wonderfully braised so maybe it's just all in the preparation.



Most "feral pigs" pigs are descended from escaped farmed pigs, or roaming pigs from many generations ago (pre WW2 it was somewhat common to brand pigs like cattle and let them roam pastures and grassland, at slaughter time brands would be recognized and exchanged if pigs had crossed property lines).

Some are descended from European Boars which were introduced. Some by Spanish, some by Russians in Northern California, some by hunters who wanted something to shoot. In the case of the former two, it was a food source: colonists released pigs to forage, then harvested later. In latter case, it was just sport hunting, and this particular problem has gotten much worse in recent years as "game ranches" have sprung up nationwide.

The reputation is that the Euro pigs are much more aggressive and dangerous. I think that rep might be overstated, but they do have much longer tusks and look mean as hell.

In areas where both exist they have cross bred. Euro pigs have much straighter snouts, almost conical. Farmed pigs usually have flat foreheads and curved snouts. Hunters often guess breed mixes by snout shape, tusk length etc. How accurate those guesses are is, well, anyone's guess.

How they taste depends almost entirely on diet rather than genetic origin. Wild ones of any stripe are very lean and the meat is tougher because they are active and working those muscles hard while not being overfed in a barn. If you've had "wild boar" that was store bought, it was almost surely European Boar that is farm raised.

Here in California I prefer hunting them in November if they are in an area with a lot of oak trees. They are super lean but after a couple of months of eating acorns they taste great. I also like them late spring, just as the grass has begun to get a slight brown tinge. They've been gorging on green grass, seeds, afalfa or whatever else is lush and greens from winter rains. They are much leaner than farm raised but after that rich eating all winter they have some marbling and a pleasant taste.

I didn't get a fall pig this year because I was having back pain most of November but I'm all good now and will try to bag a March pig this spring.


Edit: Coke to P. Fish.

I *really* like the deep red wild pig meat. I shot one a few years ago that was redder than most beef and it was spectacularly delicious.



   54. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: January 06, 2020 at 09:59 AM (#5913195)
our New Jersey bears are black.


Racist.
   55. Traderdave Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:10 AM (#5913197)
Two other notes:

Texas' dirty little secret is that organized, borderline industrial, deer hunting has helped the pig population boom. Deer hunting "ranches" plant large plots of clover and afalfa and other rich crops with nutrients designed to make big deer with big racks. All that food laying around on large properties is a bounty to roaming groups of pigs.

When you read or hear about monster pigs, 400/500/600 lbs etc, they are almost always recently escaped from factory farms or wild pigs intentionally fed with piles of hay or rice to intentionally fatten them up. A truly wild pig that lives by foraging will very seldom top 200 lbs here in California. If they get bigger than that it's typically because they have access to other food, like sneaking up on haystacks at night, etc. Most of the pigs I've killed are in the 120-150 lbs range.
   56. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:25 AM (#5913201)
When you make boar sausage, do you add in back fat from a butcher? Or do you just keep it lean and wild?
   57. Traderdave Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:28 AM (#5913203)
Usually have to add in back fat but depnds on pig size and what I'm doing with it. Wild ones do have some back fat but not enough to make more than a small batch.
   58. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:31 AM (#5913205)
I *really* like the deep red wild pig meat. I shot one a few years ago that was redder than most beef and it was spectacularly delicious.


Yes - this was exactly what I had at a little restaurant in Deventer in the Netherlands... and it was indeed spectacularly delicious - a veritable super meat that tasted halfway between beef and pork. I was actually skeptical based on the color. It was a special - and a rarity for the place to have, so they say. I was told they occasionally get it from a 'cooperative', which I assumed meant it wasn't really "wild" boar, but perhaps it was.

So.... if these things are such a pest, come on... I've got nothing against the standard pig or cow - but this is some variety I would welcome.
   59. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:33 AM (#5913206)
That's what I'm saying! Do the hogs that get machine gunned from helicopters get harvested? We can't let this good meat go to waste, people!
   60. flournoy Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:38 AM (#5913207)
I would guess that the economy of selling meat from non-farmed animals just doesn't work on a large scale. Deer are a major pest as well, yet they don't stock venison at my local grocery store.
   61. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:38 AM (#5913208)
Traderdave, do you ever do cured meats, fermented or whole muscle? I learned how to do that stuff at Oliveto in Oakland. I imagine you've been there?
   62. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:41 AM (#5913209)
I would guess that the economy of selling meat from non-farmed animals just doesn't work on a large scale. Deer are a major pest as well, yet they don't stock venison at my local grocery store.


No, and in addition to that you'd have to convince the USDA to put an inspector in the helicopter and argue that your Rambo-style shock and awe slaughter somehow doesn't contravene humane handling regulations. But I'm dreaming here, not concerned with such petty obstacles as "economics" and "laws."
   63. Traderdave Posted: January 06, 2020 at 10:52 AM (#5913213)
I do cure meats with Umai dry age bags. They are a specially designed plastic bag originally made to dry age steaks at home but they do charcuterie reasonably well. Not as good as a cave, but I don't have a cave.

I have considered buying a dry age chamber like the one at the bar at Oliveto (one of my all time fave places, by the way) but spousal justification must be carefully navigated....

I generally cure venison more often than pork, as I like the result better.
   64. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 06, 2020 at 11:07 AM (#5913215)
Asheville NC (pop ~90k, metro ~420k) has frequent black bear sightings (their minor league logo formerly showed a bear on vacation)- last time I was there with my then elementary school age kids, I spotted a pair in a cul-de-sac a few hundred feet from our airbnb, which turned our picnic into indoor dining time.
Good move - they were almost certainly plotting to steal your pic-a-nic basket.
   65. flournoy Posted: January 06, 2020 at 11:15 AM (#5913219)
Well, one of them was, anyway. The smaller one was just bellyaching about how the ranger isn't going to like it.
   66. . . . . . . Posted: January 06, 2020 at 11:30 AM (#5913220)
Bear spray is more effective than guns. And for you long-distance hikers, it weighs less too!


Eh. I've used both, and I disagree. A gun firing will scare away almost anything, and using bear spray in the heat of the moment is ####### terrifying and gives you no margin for error. That being said, a handgun with enough stopping power for a bear or boar is indeed a pain in the ass to schlep around.

OTOH, I'm skeptical about needing a "scary sounding gun name" for boar. Granted I don't hunt, but I've spent a fair bit of time outdoors and never come close to a situation where I needed that kind of thing.

FWIW, I've only used true wild boar as ground meat in some old-school italian recipes, but it is absolutely killer for that.
   67. jmurph Posted: January 06, 2020 at 11:38 AM (#5913222)
I'm a vegetarian but I find these semi-regular meat-cooking threads to be endlessly fascinating, I can't really explain it (well this one isn't directly about cooking, but it's cooking-adjacent).
   68. Traderdave Posted: January 06, 2020 at 12:13 PM (#5913231)
If a bear or boar is charging you from short range, you're probably already ###### but spray will be a lot more help than a pistol.

In that moment, unless you are a seasoned combat veteran, you are terrified, your pulse is racing and your hand is far from steady. Dropping your bow and drawing a pistol which is probably covered by camo jacket, using a wrist that is encumbered by your archery release and squeezing off a dead eye head shot (because a standard heart/lung shot isn't possible in a charge) in a couple or three seconds is just about impossible and seriously risks hitting others in your party. And the sound of a gunshot won't scare an animal that is already charging you. Spray at least has more margin for error and less risk of killing your hunting partner.

It's very similar to the conundrum of a gun for home defense: a gun has to be at the ready to be useful for home defense. If it's safely stored in a gun safe, likely in a far corner of the house, it's no help in most defense situations. But having it at the ready, where it can be a viable defense, creates exponentially greater safety risk to yourself and others in household. Bottom line it that it's more harm than good.

Best way to stay safe with bears and pigs is keep your wits about you and shoot from a position of cover. Or if you're hiking instead of hunting, making regular noise will tell both bears and pigs to vacate the area.




   69. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 06, 2020 at 12:24 PM (#5913234)

When a wild boar (or 30-50) charges you, what is it trying to do? Is the danger from being gored by the tusk / trampled? Or do they bite as well?
   70. . . . . . . Posted: January 06, 2020 at 12:29 PM (#5913235)
If a bear or boar is charging you from short range, you're probably already ###### but spray will be a lot more help than a pistol.

In that moment, unless you are a seasoned combat veteran, you are terrified, your pulse is racing and your hand is far from steady. Dropping your bow and drawing a pistol which is probably covered by camo jacket, using a wrist that is encumbered by your archery release and squeezing off a dead eye head shot (because a standard heart/lung shot isn't possible in a charge) in a couple or three seconds is just about impossible and seriously risks hitting others in your party. And the sound of a gunshot won't scare an animal that is already charging you. Spray at least has more margin for error and less risk of killing your hunting partner.


Have you ever used spray? It doesn't work nearly as well as you'd hope. Squeeze too soon, the spray isn't concentrated enough to break the charge of an enraged animal. Squeeze too late, you're already mauled by the time it realizes that everything ####### hurts. And of course you have to draw it from your belt, click off the 'safety', and fire it, all in matter of seconds (and while dropping whatever else you're holding).

Not to say that bear spray doesn't work - cause it does - but I don't think it's better than an appropriate gun. And in many cases you're going to have the gun on you anyway, so the spray just adds weight.
   71. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 06, 2020 at 12:29 PM (#5913236)
I would have been the ranger in this scenario and my son would have been the pic-a-nic basket.
   72. Lassus Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:17 PM (#5913246)
Not to say that bear spray doesn't work - cause it does - but I don't think it's better than an appropriate gun.

I know it's one study, but the data doesn't seem to support this.
   73. Adam Starblind Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5913248)
I guess I'm still confused about what anyone here thinks they're going to do with an AR-15 when being swarmed by 25 feral boars. Do you think you're going to pick them off one by one as they charge at you? What are you, Jack Bauer?
   74. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:25 PM (#5913249)
I guess I'm still confused about what anyone here thinks they're going to do with an AR-15 when being swarmed by 25 feral boars.
Defend the Second Amendment, that's what!! First it's 25 feral boars coming at you, and then it's the government storm troopers.
   75. SoSH U at work Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5913250)
Wait, there are wild buffalo in Florida?


I was stunned to learn last week that we have wild bison in Indiana, and not too far from my house.
   76. Greg Pope Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5913251)
the advice here generally is true - unless they are starving, diseased, or panicked, you can just stroll past more large animals than you think.

Yes, but how do know? If I see a bear relatively close, I'm really not going to be in a position where I can carefully analyze its condition.
   77. Rally Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5913252)
The dyslexic second amendment gives you the right to arm bears. Or boars.
   78. Adam Starblind Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5913253)
Hopefully good guy with a gun comes along with his AR-15 too, though experience says he is usually off taking a piss or renting a DVD from a Redbox when the violence and/or hog stampede breaks out.
   79. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5913254)
Armed Boers didn't work out too well for anyone involved.
   80. Lassus Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:38 PM (#5913257)
   81. Brian C Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:42 PM (#5913259)
Since I brought it up (#36), I will say that I don't know guns and can't tell you what exactly the guy was carrying. But it was a smaller handgun and even a complete newb like myself could tell that if it was going to work against a charging bear, it would likely have to be a dead perfect shot at uncomfortably close range and he'd still have to hope for luck. I got the impression that it basically a security blanket to him more than a viable plan for protection. I will say in his defense, a gun is probably a more logical plan than the bear bells they sell at all the gift shops.

I've been out to Glacier twice and neither time felt the need to carry either a gun or bear spray (or bells). My last trip there, my brother and I had more than a dozen bear sightings over 5 days, both grizzlies and black bears. We didn't have a close enough encounter to present a legit threat to us, but at the same time, it was completely obvious that a close encounter was a constant possibility. Our closest encounter was actually with a herd of bighorn sheep that were stubbornly blocking our path and seemed to get antsy as we approached (we decided to go around them, with minor difficulty). But anyway, the bottom line is that something like 3 million people have visited the park per year in recent years, and the number of actual bear attacks per year in the park seems to be generally something close to one or so.

And again, bears are basically omnipresent in the park. Close encounters between the bears and humans must, by simple logic, happen all the time. Literally every day. I never felt like I was overly complacent about it - we are both very tuned in to our surroundings and take basic precautions, like traderdave's suggestion of making some noise in places where visibility is limited. But the simple mathematical fact is that, while bears are obviously incredibly dangerous, the actual threat from bears is overstated.

(The sheer awesomeness of the park, however, cannot be overstated.)
   82. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:55 PM (#5913263)
From Lassus's link in #80:

Earl, a zookeeper at the Cleveland Brookside Zoo, was mauled by a brown bear when feeding it in its pen. After a vicious struggle, police shot the bear. Earl was also mistakenly shot, but it was determined that he was already dead.[236] Earlier in the day, Earl had been fired from his job.


That's the Mike Trout of bad days.
   83. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 06, 2020 at 01:58 PM (#5913265)
But anyway, the bottom line is that something like 3 million people have visited the park per year in recent years, and the number of actual bear attacks per year in the park seems to be generally something close to one or so.
The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
   84. The Good Face Posted: January 06, 2020 at 02:09 PM (#5913267)
But then, most people - even some people I know who should really know better - are terrified of even almost completely harmless animals like coyotes and bobcats.


Coyotes are notorious for killing cats and dogs and are often rabid. Sensible people don't want them in the neighborhood.

With respect to bears, most handguns other than those specially chambered for hunting large animals won't be particularly effective. Bears have thick bones and layers of dense muscle. They're hard to kill with handgun cartridges designed to be effective on humans. If you're willing to carry a .44 Magnum or something bigger, then sure, that'll drop a bear, but that's a lot of iron to be toting around. The good news is that most bears aren't really aggressive to humans unless you do something stupid. Black bears can usually be scared away by shouting or throwing something at them; they're basically just overgrown raccoons. Brown bears should just be avoided, but they're usually happy to return the favor. Polar bears are terrifying and aggressive, but if you're being menaced by a polar bear, chances are the life decisions that put you in that spot are your biggest problem anyway.
   85. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: January 06, 2020 at 02:13 PM (#5913269)
What about huge CGI bears like the one in The Revenant? That one ###### up ol' Leo pretty good.
   86. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 06, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5913270)
I had more than a dozen bear sightings over 5 days, both grizzlies and black bears.
One difference between black bears and grizzly bears:
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat. Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
   87. Brian C Posted: January 06, 2020 at 02:28 PM (#5913277)
Overgrown raccoons actually sound more frightening to me than a black bear.

The literature suggests that moose actually injure considerably more people than bears. Which I get - I never realized how big moose actually are until I saw a real one relatively close.
   88. Karl from NY Posted: January 06, 2020 at 02:56 PM (#5913287)
So Cespedes is Burrich?

omg, I got here late but I'd totally be in for a Robin Hobb thread
   89. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 06, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5913294)

Have bear populations increased in recent years? I've done a fair amount of hiking in US and Canadian national parks and have only ever glimpsed a couple of them from the car. Granted, most of that experience was 10+ years ago.
   90. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 03:22 PM (#5913302)
Why was Early feeding the bear after he had already been fired from his zookeeper position?
   91. . . . . . . Posted: January 06, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5913305)
https://www.outsideonline.com/2401248/does-bear-spray-work

This article would open some eyes on this thread.

With respect to bears, most handguns other than those specially chambered for hunting large animals won't be particularly effective. Bears have thick bones and layers of dense muscle. They're hard to kill with handgun cartridges designed to be effective on humans. If you're willing to carry a .44 Magnum or something bigger, then sure, that'll drop a bear, but that's a lot of iron to be toting around.


Yup. I don't deal with guns often and the first time I saw my friend's 629 I almost couldn't believe he was comfortable shooting it. But look; at the end of the day its 3lbs. It is what it is.
   92. SandyRiver Posted: January 06, 2020 at 03:51 PM (#5913317)
our New Jersey bears are black.

beyond my neighborhood, have encountered a couple of said bears "in the wild."

the advice here generally is true - unless they are starving, diseased, or panicked, you can just stroll past more large animals than you think.

While I was growing up in the North Jersey highlands ('50s & early '60s), bears were almost mythical beasts, though I knew there were some in Stokes State Forest in the state's NW corner. On FB last year I saw several pics of different bears in my former hometown, including a very large male next to the road I had walked hundreds of times to reach the local beach.
Maine has over 30,000 black bears by best estimate, one of the highest populations in the lower 48, and in my 47 years living in the state I've not heard of any bear-maul human fatalities or even serious injuries. Most people-bear issues arise due to bird feeders or other unnatural food sources - beekeepers have real problems. OTOH, moose-vehicle collisions were taking 2-4 human lives several years ago such that the legislature was okay with the state biologists' plan to greatly liberalize moose hunting regs in northeast Aroostook, where a disproportionally high number of fatal crashes had occurred.
   93. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:00 PM (#5913319)
John McPhee wrote an article about NJ's bears some time in the last few years - the population has exploded recently.
   94. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:05 PM (#5913321)
SandyRiver, I was hiking up near the Flagstaff/Bigelow area and I spoke to a volunteer ranger type guy that said he feared the moose population is much, much lower than only years ago - that the spread of ticks has devastated them. Thoughts?
   95. Howie Menckel Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5913323)
there's a bear hunting season in NJ now, in December I believe.

as for these discussions about effectiveness of guns re bears: in the very unlikely event that one is charging at you, prepare to meet your maker. the best play, frankly, might be to shoot yourself before the bear claws land.

but people in these parts routinely go out to their backyard decks, and when they see a bear nearby they just bang a couple of old pots and pans that they have left outside for just that purpose. the bear then scatters for the hills. pretty sure a gunshot into the air would work just as well.
   96. Zonk Begs Your Pardon, Mr Blago Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:13 PM (#5913325)
Unless bear is as tasty as boar -- this thread has officially lost my interest.
   97. manchestermets Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5913328)
What does an Ursus americanus use to keep its fur glossy?

Bear spray.


That's all I got. The most threatening thing I'm likely to bump into here is a badger.
   98. manchestermets Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:24 PM (#5913330)
Unless bear is as tasty as boar -- this thread has officially lost my interest.


I have a friend who's eaten bear in Spain and said it's excelllent. Are they hunted for food in the US. They ate one in Little House in the Big Woods, as well as the pig it had caught when Pa saw it.
   99. PreservedFish Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:29 PM (#5913335)
I've never eaten bear and I've heard conflicting reports. A good friend of mine that's a hog farmer that really knows his #### (is currently raising Iberico pigs in the US) says that bear is his favorite meat. Another friend, an old butcher that's seen everything, says that the flavor varies wildly depending on the bear's recent diet, which can be blueberries or salmon or rotting raccoon carcasses or anything else. A third friend says that all the bear he's eaten has been vile. What I do know is that it's typically riddled with trichinella and so I don't have much interest in rare, nicely seared bear loin, which would seem to be the best way to sample a new animal. But yes, people eat bear in the US.
   100. Lassus Posted: January 06, 2020 at 04:33 PM (#5913337)
I've been out to Glacier twice and neither time felt the need to carry either a gun or bear spray (or bells). My last trip there, my brother and I had more than a dozen bear sightings over 5 days, both grizzlies and black bears. We didn't have a close enough encounter to present a legit threat to us, but at the same time, it was completely obvious that a close encounter was a constant possibility. Our closest encounter was actually with a herd of bighorn sheep that were stubbornly blocking our path and seemed to get antsy as we approached (we decided to go around them, with minor difficulty)
I've been to Glacier only once. It would have been twice but on one drive there was some kind of life-altering blizzard that I think literally had the official state response as "PLEASE STAY FAR AWAY". The second time, a girl I was traveling with and I planned on a relatively easy hike and one night camping. We saw SO MANY "The State of Montana and the Province of British Columbia not responsible for death, dismemberment, or mauling by grizzly bears" and "How to avoid being killed by grizzly bears" and "What to do when attacked by grizzly bears" signs and literature. Constantly. (The answer to the last one was basically: "Roll up into a ball and pray. Good luck." Coming from the Adirondacks, there were black bears all over the place that nobody really gives a shit about, it was really the way people in CA would laugh at you for fearing (not being annoyed, but literally afraid) coyotes.

SO anyhow, we've been wound up and primed by this "painful, frightening, certain gruesome death imminent" warnings and about 15/30 minutes into our hike, we hear something somewhere off to our right in the woods. We freeze, slightly panic, ready our whistle, and then slowly, slowly, slowly it gets closer ("DON'T RUN, YOU'RE DEAD THAT WAY") as I contemplate how I haven't really screwed this girl enough yet to be killed next to her, and my mom is really going to be upset, and who is going to get all my books, when... massive, slow-moving, moose walks by about two feet from us. I really could have reached out and touched him. We are immediately relieved and then also newly terrified as I've worked with cows and bulls, and this thing dwarfed them. It was like a massive Great Dane cow. It could have killed me by jerking it's head sideways.

So, it passed. We breathe, then in concert decided "Absolutely, positively, seriously, fuck this" and walked back, got in the car, and drove overnight straight to Seattle. Nature is great, and also terrifying.
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