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Tuesday, May 10, 2022

After being ‘positive and patient,’ Cards option DeJong to Triple-A

Feeling that they had been plenty “positive and patient” with Paul DeJong, the Cardinals optioned the struggling shortstop to Triple-A Memphis on Tuesday when “the at-bats looked the same and the adjustment wasn’t coming” and started the process of finding their next long-term shortstop.

On Tuesday, when the Cardinals hosted the Orioles at Busch Stadium for the first time since 2003, the shortstop job fell onto the shoulders of rookie Brendan Donovan, who became the first player since 1900 to make his first four MLB starts at four different infield positions. Tommy Edman, the Gold Glove winner at second base last season, will get more pregame work at shortstop in the coming days and could see time there soon. Also, Edmundo Sosa will finish up a two-game rehab stint at Double-A Springfield on Wednesday and could potentially play for the Cardinals later this week.

As for the status of DeJong, who hit just .130 in 24 games, the Cardinals staff met on the team plane Sunday night on the way home from San Francisco and again in St. Louis on Monday. The decision to option their full-time shortstop since 2017 to the Minors was made prior to Tuesday’s game. .

 

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 10, 2022 at 11:15 AM | 20 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, paul dejong

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: May 10, 2022 at 11:38 PM (#6076187)
So next time try negative and impatient. If that doesn't work, try negative and patient. Still nothing, try positive and impatient. If you're desperate, try indifferent and timely.
   2. John DiFool2 Posted: May 11, 2022 at 12:48 AM (#6076207)
How does a 5 year vet still have options?
   3. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 11, 2022 at 01:24 AM (#6076212)
According to this story, he still has three minor league options available (I'm assuming today's option is one of the three).
   4. John Reynard Posted: May 11, 2022 at 02:49 AM (#6076214)
How does a 5 year vet still have options?

Cause his service time is 4.127 rather than 5.000 or higher?

The way he's been hitting, perhaps he should be grateful he has options cause he'd probably be getting a DFA otherwise. The D is semi-nice. But, it doesn't carry pitcher hitting.
   5. bfan Posted: May 11, 2022 at 12:12 PM (#6076259)
But, it doesn't carry pitcher hitting.


Good for the cardinals. MLB appears to have gotten to the point, with the DH, to accept pitcher hitting from catcher (bonus if you find a catcher who hits well, but it seems every catcher who hits now moves to another position after a few years to preserve his body and the hitting). We do not need sub-par hitting (at least to this level) out of the shortstop and CF positions as well, if you like the defense the player brings.
   6. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: May 11, 2022 at 02:15 PM (#6076290)
Catchers could never hit. It has nothing to do with the DH.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: May 11, 2022 at 04:39 PM (#6076312)
every catcher who hits now moves to another position after a few years to preserve his body and the hitting

Really? I can't think of one but am probably forgetting somebody. Are you counting Schwarber who had a whopping 72 games caught in the minors, was unlikely to ever be a ML C and had those chances ended when he tore up his knee?

Historically, most bats moved off of C were terrible Cs. Biggio is an exception. The Expos briefly toyed with the idea of Gary Carter in the OF; I recall somebody (A's? Cubs") tried to make Michael Barrett a 3B but discovered he couldn't hit all that well.
   8. Adam Starblind Posted: May 11, 2022 at 04:46 PM (#6076314)
The Mike Piazza 1B Experience was almost as fun as the Todd Hundley LF Experience.
   9. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 11, 2022 at 04:53 PM (#6076317)
Really? I can't think of one but am probably forgetting somebody.


There was Carlos Delgado, but that's hardly "now."

The Rockies had a guy named Wilin Rosario a few years ago who hit 28 homers in under 400 ABs as a rookie, but was a terrible catcher. His hitting eroded over the next few years until they finally moved him to first, but it was too late - the bat was pretty much gone by then.
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: May 11, 2022 at 04:56 PM (#6076318)
Munson had just been moved to OF due to his shredded knees before... that happened.

Todd Zeile's got 119 MLB starts at catcher in 1989-90 before he moved to 3B (and some 1B). His 1990 backup was Tom Pagnozzi, who got the starting gig in 1991.
   11. Ithaca2323 Posted: May 11, 2022 at 05:00 PM (#6076321)
Catchers could never hit. It has nothing to do with the DH.


Currently, catchers have an OPS 68 points below the league's overall number.

In 1999, just to take a sillyball year, it was 32 points below the league's number

In 1972, it was exactly the same as the league's number.

I actually think what we're seeing might make sense. If pitch framing is of growing importance, that's another defensive component of a C that, if it's excellent, might entice you to punt more on offense.

   12. Ithaca2323 Posted: May 11, 2022 at 05:03 PM (#6076322)
Really? I can't think of one but am probably forgetting somebody.


I mean, "a few years" is a quibble, but Joe Mauer
   13. Buck Coats Posted: May 11, 2022 at 05:21 PM (#6076328)
Bryce Harper too, if you count "as soon as he was drafted".
   14. sunday silence (again) Posted: May 11, 2022 at 05:32 PM (#6076331)


I actually think what we're seeing might make sense. If pitch framing is of growing importance, that's another defensive component of a C that, if it's excellent, might entice you to punt more on offense.


Do the numbers make sense? 68 OPS is about 27 runs below avg for a year? But catchers dont play the entire season maybe 75%? So 21 runs, say? Can a catcher save that many with pitch framing.

I mean its an interesting idea. But presumably pitch framing was always a skill its just that wasn't quantified. Presumably it was still a relevant skill in 1972.
   15. sunday silence (again) Posted: May 11, 2022 at 05:42 PM (#6076334)

Really? I can't think of one but am probably forgetting somebody.


RUdy York maybe the poster child for that sort of thing spending 6 years on the DET organization trying to be a catch. One could also cite Ruth?

But I take your pt.
   16. The Duke Posted: May 11, 2022 at 05:59 PM (#6076339)
My understanding is that Dejong had 12 days left before he hit the magic 5 year mark. So he's kinda stuck. They don't want to lose him for nothing but they don't want to let him get to 5 years either. From another blog:

One may wonder why the Cards made this move now. Going into the season, DeJong had 4 years and 127 days of major league service time. One year of major league service time equals 172 days, and although the season, including off-days, is longer than that, a player can only get 172 days of major league service in any one season, at which point he is credited with one year of service. The regular season has lasted 33 days before today, which put DeJong at 4 years and 160 days of service. Twelve more days and he would have had five years of major league service, at which point he could not be sent to the minor leagues, whether by optional or outright assignment, without his permission. The club would have had to make the move by May 20th, or it would have been too late. DeJong has never been optioned before, and thus technically has all three minor league options left.
   17. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 11, 2022 at 07:08 PM (#6076346)
Paul DeJong, the Cardinals optioned the struggling shortstop to Triple-A


Xander Bogaerts, c'mon down! What can the Cardinals trade for this to happen?
   18. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 11, 2022 at 07:47 PM (#6076350)
Really? I can't think of one but am probably forgetting somebody.


RUdy York maybe the poster child for that sort of thing spending 6 years on the DET organization trying to be a catch. One could also cite Ruth?

But I take your pt.


Jimmie Foxx. But he was moved off catcher because the Athletics had Mickey Cochrane.
   19. Ithaca2323 Posted: May 11, 2022 at 09:12 PM (#6076372)
Do the numbers make sense? 68 OPS is about 27 runs below avg for a year? But catchers dont play the entire season maybe 75%? So 21 runs, say? Can a catcher save that many with pitch framing.


Brian McCann's career fWAR went up like, 20, when they incorporated framing data. I suspect in his best years, he was probably saving 2-3 WAR in framing.

   20. bfan Posted: May 12, 2022 at 12:36 PM (#6076437)

Really? I can't think of one but am probably forgetting somebody. Are you counting Schwarber who had a whopping 72 games caught in the minors, was unlikely to ever be a ML C and had those chances ended when he tore up his knee?

Historically, most bats moved off of C were terrible Cs. Biggio is an exception. The Expos briefly toyed with the idea of Gary Carter in the OF; I recall somebody (A's? Cubs") tried to make Michael Barrett a 3B but discovered he couldn't hit all that well.


Joe Mauer is a pretty good example, and my recollection is, he could hit. Buster Posey is another. Now so we are clear, when you play 30-40 games a year at 1B, I consider that as moving off of catcher enough to make a material difference, as for those 30-40 games, you have a second string catcher in the game who hits like an Astros catcher. Of course, stud hitting catcher still gets his days oss. I just looked at it, and Buster Posey caught in 120+ games twice in a 12 year career (not counting his one cup of coffee year), and the high was 123 games. I am sure there are others; that was 20 seconds of thought.

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