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Monday, July 27, 2020

Rob Manfred says Marlins’ outbreak not a ‘nightmare’ scenario


“I don’t put this in the nightmare category,” Manfred said. “It’s not a positive thing, but I don’t see it as a nightmare. ... That’s why we have the expanded rosters. That’s why we have the pool of additional players.”

The league is looking into where the outbreak began. League sources indicate that it’s possible it came about during a charter flight from Atlanta after the Marlins played an exhibition game there Wednesday.

Manfred was asked what it would take to shut down the league—at least for a short period of time.

“A team losing a number of players, making it completely noncompetitive, would be something we would have to address and have to think about making a change,” Manfred said. “Our first concern is the health of the players and their families. And making sure we do everything possible to minimize the spread of the virus to our employees.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 27, 2020 at 11:40 PM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:17 AM (#5966277)
What a jagoff.
   2. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:29 AM (#5966280)
baseball is a lost cause.


*edit* eh, that's a bit unfair. rob munferd is a lost cause. he needs to go.
   3. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:51 AM (#5966285)
Mike Trout dies of COVID-19. There, that's a nightmare scenario.
   4. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:53 AM (#5966286)
“A team losing a number of players, making it completely noncompetitive, would be something we would have to address and have to think about making a change,”


??? Reports are that 11 players on the Marlins tested positive and can't play. That's 40% of their roster! Unless the standard is, "Well, it would have to be good players on a good team", which, by the way, is a complete bullshit distinction, how does this not qualify?

"Our first concern is the health of the players and their families" - And this is obvious bullshit. I know, it's what everybody feels like they have to say, but no, if your first concern was the health of the players, you'd cancel the season. I'm not even arguing that they should cancel the season; I'm arguing that they're obviously prioritizing something over health.

Personally, I would cancel the season. But, that said, I think there's a case to be made to soldier on and hope this is the worst it gets. The excerpt fails badly to make that case.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:05 AM (#5966292)
??? Reports are that 11 players on the Marlins tested positive and can't play. That's 40% of their roster!

all MLB teams have 60-man rosters in two groups of 30, hence Manfred's "the pool of additional players."

I'm not defending the guy. but there is an exploding narrative here and elsewhere that isn't accurate, either.

every day, teams have been shifting players from "main 30" to "secondary 30."

I'm also not sure how long those Marlins players will be sidelined.

carry on.
   6. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:11 AM (#5966294)
all MLB teams have 60-man rosters in two groups of 30, hence Manfred's "the pool of additional players."


And in normal seasons, teams have a AAA and AA team. And if a team suddenly had to replace 40% of its major-league team with AA and AAA players, any sensible person would look at that as that team "losing a number of players" and that team would very suddenly become "completely noncompetitive". If your standard is that a team suddenly having to fill half its roster with minor-leaguers would prompt you to shut down the season, then the MLB season should be shut down right now. It's not, so that's obviously not the standard. And maybe it shouldn't be the standard. But don't spit on me and tell me it's raining.
   7. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:16 AM (#5966295)
And in normal seasons,


But this isn't a season. It's a business proposition. It's a gamble on having enough players left to hold a post season. Doesn't matter who the hell they are becasue if enough survive the networks are contractually obligated. Manfred knows exactly who he works for and what his job is, and he's the perfect bastard to do it.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:16 AM (#5966296)
Probably shouldn’t be spitting on you at all these days.
   9. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:28 AM (#5966299)
Our first concern is the health of the players and their families.


uh huh
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:38 AM (#5966300)
And if a team suddenly had to replace 40% of its major-league team with AA and AAA players, any sensible person would look at that as that team "losing a number of players" and that team would very suddenly become "completely noncompetitive". If your standard is that a team suddenly having to fill half its roster with minor-leaguers would prompt you to shut down the season, then the MLB season should be shut down right now. It's not, so that's obviously not the standard. And maybe it shouldn't be the standard. But don't spit on me and tell me it's raining.


well, don't ignore "I'm also not sure how long those Marlins players will be sidelined" and tell me you have reasonably responded.

will the Marlins be shorthanded for two days, two weeks, or two months?

that strikes me as relevant. isn't it?

c'mon, Kiko.

if you're angry about MLB holding a season at all, you won't get an argument from me. but don't shoot the messenger.
   11. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: July 28, 2020 at 05:45 AM (#5966303)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Everyone is going to pile on MLB, to some degree rightfully so, but MLS has a bubble & two different teams had to be removed from the tournament entirely because of outbreaks. Sports overseas have been mostly smooth. This is an American response problem above all else
   12. PreservedFish Posted: July 28, 2020 at 05:55 AM (#5966304)
This was never not going to happen. Probably the season shouldn't have been attempted in the first place, but given that it's already begun, I don't see how it changes anything. There's no new information here. It's unfortunate that it happened so quickly, but it was inevitable.
   13. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 06:16 AM (#5966305)

And in normal seasons, teams have a AAA and AA team. And if a team suddenly had to replace 40% of its major-league team with AA and AAA players, any sensible person would look at that as that team "losing a number of players" and that team would very suddenly become "completely noncompetitive".

Will this roster be any less competitive than ones the Marlins routinely ran out there last year?

In a country where, for better or for worse, most states are reopened and ~60,000+- people are testing positive every day, a bunch of otherwise healthy 20-40 year olds testing positive is probably not going to be the threshold for shutting the whole league down.

However, I do think it should be considered whether the existing protocols are sufficient to ensure that one infected player doesn't become 14 infected players. Right now it doesn't seem like that's the case.
   14. PreservedFish Posted: July 28, 2020 at 06:31 AM (#5966306)
Yes, the 30-man B team isn't a unique germ-pod if 11 of them get called up to play with the other 19 guys from the A team.
   15. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 07:29 AM (#5966312)
Rob Manfred's commissionership. That's MY nightmare scenario for baseball. Bud Selig never looked so good until I could make this comparison. At least Selig likes the game.
   16. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 28, 2020 at 08:00 AM (#5966313)
“I think it’s another indictment of the United States’s overall approach to Covid,” said Dr. Michael Saag, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. He added: “We find ourselves impatient. And that’s what I think we’re suffering from, both in terms of not just Major League Baseball but for every other thing we’re trying to do.”

Miami Marlins Outbreak Postpones 2 Games and Rocks M.L.B.’s Return
   17. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 28, 2020 at 08:30 AM (#5966315)
@DAVIDprice24
·
19h
Now we REALLY get to see if MLB is going to put players health first. Remember when Manfred said players health was PARAMOUNT?! Part of the reason I’m at home right now is because players health wasn’t being put first. I can see that hasn’t changed.


David Price has been a voice of reason through this.
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 09:35 AM (#5966321)
Fauci:

"This could put it in danger," said Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "I don't believe they need to stop, but we just need to follow this and see what happens with other teams on a day-by-day basis."...

"Major League Baseball -- the players, the owners, the managers -- have put a lot of effort into getting together and putting protocols that we feel would work," Fauci said. "It's very unfortunate what happened with the Miami [Marlins]."


   19. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 28, 2020 at 10:10 AM (#5966327)
The league is looking into where the outbreak began. League sources indicate that it’s possible it came about during a charter flight from Atlanta after the Marlins played an exhibition game there Wednesday.
The MLB response may depend on what they find. A few players celebrating the start of the season with a night at a packed strip club might get a different response than if the outbreak was traced to a flight attendant on a charter flight. Lots of possibilities, and MLB may never know for sure, and even if they do they might not release all the info.
   20. winnipegwhip Posted: July 28, 2020 at 10:53 AM (#5966341)
If Manfred was commissioner in 1940 and MLB had an International Series planned he would be stating:

"I don't see how the evacuation of British and French troops from Dunkirk means anything. We will keep following up the situation. But as of today, June 5, we are still planning to have the Browns play the Senators in Paris on July 5, 6 and 7. Our reports overnight state that none of the Luftwaffe bombs landed close to the playing facility so we are still good to go.

"If Paris falls, this will help us expose baseball to two governments. One from Berlin and one from Paris."
   21. . Posted: July 28, 2020 at 10:58 AM (#5966344)
The incubation period of the virus leaves you really with only two options from an epidemiological perspective -- either just plow through, or shut teams like the Marlins and Phillies down for at least five-six days, which is how long you need to be able to rely on negative tests. One or two days may make some bizarre PR sense, but it makes no serious sense.

   22. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 28, 2020 at 11:25 AM (#5966352)
I didn't follow the league/labor negotiations closely, but at some point I thought the schedule was going to involve longer series (like maybe a week instead of 3 days) and consequently less travel. Shutting down the Marlins A squad (and probably the Phillies) would make the most sense here. But having Philly and Miami continue to play each other would at least preserve a status quo. The Yankees, who were supposed to play in Philly, could instead go to Baltimore to play the Marlins' opponent. It's not ideal and creates scheduling disparities, but this is a BS season anyways and contingencies need to be in place.
   23. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: July 28, 2020 at 11:26 AM (#5966354)
having Philly and Miami continue to play each other would at least preserve a status quo
#leprosyisland
   24. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: July 28, 2020 at 11:27 AM (#5966355)
One or two days may make some bizarre PR sense, but it makes no serious sense.


None of this makes serious sense. They shouldn’t be playing and they sure as hell shouldn’t be traveling to do it and dear god are they really going to have the Marlins go to Baltimore?

“Hey, we have a group of people with a highly infectious disease, what should we do?”

“I know! Let’s have them travel to a different location so they can spread that disease even more!”
   25. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 11:42 AM (#5966361)
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
·
20m
There was a #Phillies visiting clubhouse attendant who tested positive, but no Phillies' players, coaches or staff in the test results that have come back this morning. So encouraging news, so far.

.........

Tom Precious
@TomPreciousALB
·
40s
.@NYGovCuomo to @MLB: NYS could host "any" game that teams want to play in stadiums in New York State. "If you're having problems playing in other states, come play here.''
   26. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 11:53 AM (#5966368)
Great news, only one meaningless staffer had a potentially life-threatening disease. Thanks, Bob.
   27. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:00 PM (#5966371)
Great news, only one meaningless staffer had a potentially life-threatening disease. Thanks, Bob.


Even better, MLB can get the results it needs to keep the cash flowing overnight. The rest of us, a few days to a week for a test, another few more weeks for results.
Big Beautiful Health Care For All.
   28. bunyon Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:00 PM (#5966372)
"Rob Manfred says Marlins’ outbreak not a ‘nightmare’ scenario." He continued, "We're all awake. This is reality."
   29. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:01 PM (#5966373)
Sources: Four more Marlins test positive for coronavirus; total at 17

Wheeeee!

<quote]MLB commissioner Rob Manfred told MLB Network on Monday that there are factors that would force MLB to alter plans.

"A team losing a number of players that rendered it completely noncompetitive would be an issue that we would have to address and have to think about making a change," he said, "but this is the Marlins."
OK, 5 words are mine.
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:02 PM (#5966375)
"Rob Manfred says Marlins’ outbreak not a ‘nightmare’ scenario." He continued, "We're all awake. This is reality."
"Plus, all of my nightmares involve either spiders or naked public speaking. This is neither of those, so..."
   31. Zonk paid more than $750 in taxes last paycheck Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:08 PM (#5966376)
"Plus, all of my nightmares involve either spiders or naked public speaking. This is neither of those, so..."


Weird.

My mature audiences only dreams also involve spiders and naked public speaking.
   32. gef, talking mongoose & suburban housewife Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:13 PM (#5966377)
From Rosenthal --

In team vote, vast majority of Nationals players voted against going to Miami for three-game series this weekend, sources tell The Athletic. Decision will rest with MLB.
   33. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:27 PM (#5966380)
In team vote, vast majority of Nationals players voted against going to Miami for three-game series this weekend,
Gee, ya think?

I just hope they start taking safety this seriously at and away from the field too.
   34. Zonk paid more than $750 in taxes last paycheck Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:32 PM (#5966382)
To be fair, it's Miguel Rojas' fault for leaving the Nats off the group text...
   35. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5966383)
Great news, only one meaningless staffer had a potentially life-threatening disease. Thanks, Bob.

Finding that the other players who were on the field with the Marlins didn’t contract it would be positive. It’s unfortunate that the clubhouse attendant got it but given what we know about indoor transmission that shouldn’t be surprising.
   36. Itchy Row Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:49 PM (#5966386)
That's it then. The Nats forfeit last year's title, so it goes to whoever they beat, assuming that team hasn't been involved in any kind of recent scandal.
   37. winnipegwhip Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:57 PM (#5966388)
None of this makes serious sense. They shouldn’t be playing and they sure as hell shouldn’t be traveling to do it and dear god are they really going to have the Marlins go to Baltimore?


This is how Manfred brings about MLB Contraction 2020.
   38. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 28, 2020 at 12:58 PM (#5966389)
Finding that the other players who were on the field with the Marlins didn’t contract it would be positive.


I agree that this is good news if true (if a bit inartfully stated by Nightengale). But given that more Marlins apparently tested positive today based, one assumes, on contacts a couple of days ago, we should probably wait a few days and at least one more round of testing before being too certain of this result. But yes, if COVID-19 does not generally pass during the actual playing of baseball, that would be encouraging for MLB trying to play out their season.
   39. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:02 PM (#5966391)
07.28: According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today, teammates say Juan Soto (on Joel Youngbloods) is growing "increasingly frustrated" about COVID-19 testing. (Soto has supposedly tested negative six times -- three from MLB and three from the team -- but he has yet to do so on back-to-back tests more than 24 hours apart. That's the protocol which clears the way for a player to return. He remains sidelined for the time being. This either indicates that Soto still has the virus, or there's an issue with tests. Neither of these options are good.)
   40. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:06 PM (#5966392)
Soto has supposedly also tested positive 5 times, so...

At least 2 negatives in a row 24 hours apart sounds like a good protocol, and Soto hasn't cleared that yet. Frustrating, sure, but also smart that he still can't be back.
   41. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:07 PM (#5966395)
Soto has supposedly tested negative six times -- three from MLB and three from the team -- but he has yet to do so on back-to-back tests more than 24 hours apart.


I understand Soto's frustration here. But my first takeaway from this is the same as Howie: "Holy crap, how reliable do we really think these tests are!?" And is the problem false positives (frustrating for Soto, possibly encouraging in terms of the overall scope of the problem in MLB) or false negatives - which could be a HUGE problem for MLB if they're not catching infected guys who are then left free to infect teammates, clubhouse and hotel staff, etc.
   42. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:08 PM (#5966396)
But given that more Marlins apparently tested positive today based, one assumes, on contacts a couple of days ago, we should probably wait a few days and at least one more round of testing before being too certain of this result.


The scenario of presymptomatic onfield infection? Hmmmm.
   43. Zonk paid more than $750 in taxes last paycheck Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:12 PM (#5966397)
Rojas is among the Marlin's testing positive...

But sure, sure... let's all keep ignoring the obvious 5G connection.
   44. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:15 PM (#5966398)
I understand Soto's frustration here. But my first takeaway from this is the same as Howie: "Holy crap, how reliable do we really think these tests are!?" And is the problem false positives (frustrating for Soto, possibly encouraging in terms of the overall scope of the problem in MLB) or false negatives - which could be a HUGE problem for MLB if they're not catching infected guys who are then left free to infect teammates, clubhouse and hotel staff, etc.
fun fact: it's both.
   45. bunyon Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5966400)
I'd guess the negatives for Soto were from less sensitive saliva tests. Which would mean he's positive and has been all along, just not with a huge viral load.
   46. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 01:34 PM (#5966402)
my first takeaway from this is the same as Howie


that's poor clarity on my part

that entire blurb, including the conclusion drawn, was from OnRoto's fantasy baseball site - which I think gets its stuff from Rotoworld

.................

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
9m
One scenario under discussion, according to source with direct knowledge: Marlins, Phillies would quarantine for undetermined period. Yankees would travel to Baltimore and play Orioles on Wednesday and Thursday. Marlins, Phillies would try to make up postponed games later.
   47. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 28, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5966414)
Te3st often enough and you'll get the result you want. Statistical truth,
   48. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 03:34 PM (#5966438)
@lettheMetsdie

i think his nightmare is a balance sheet that doesn't add up.
   49. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 03:43 PM (#5966442)
Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
In statement about all the changes perhaps this is most vital from MLB release: In over 6,400 tests conducted since Fri, July 24, there have been no new positives of on-field personnel from any of the other 29 Clubs. In other words only #Marlins have been positive.
3:12 PM · Jul 28, 2020
   50. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 03:53 PM (#5966447)
So how has Juan Soto not been cleared to play then????
   51. . Posted: July 28, 2020 at 04:01 PM (#5966450)
This is from the statement:

"The response outlined in the joint MLB-MLBPA Operations Manual was triggered immediately upon learning of the cluster of positive cases, including contact tracing and the quarantining and testing of all of the identified close contacts.


This is simply not true, or even close. If you were quarantining all the positive Marlins' close contacts, essentially all the Phillies would be under quarantine now, too. I suppose there could be a stray Phillie who conceivably like played the outfield and went 0 for the weekend or something and never got within six feet of a Marlin, but those were a handful at most.

Both the Marlins and Phillies should be under quarantine now. They should not, under any circumstances, be traveling. MLB is basically a public nuisance and danger at this point. If the outbreak started when a Marlin or two caught it in Atlanta, as is the speculation, the workplace had no business then traveling to Philadelphia. They probably all tested negative before the travel, but that just shows the danger of travelling in the first place.

I wasn't really paying attention before "Opening Day," because, well, there are other things in the world, too, but Canada obviously had this right and their attitude of "You want a bunch of people to travel here all summer who've been traveling all over the place and working in close proximity to each other every day? Are you out of your ####### minds!?!?!?!" was the only conceivable call here.

If the Pennsylvania health authorities weren't willing to let the Blue Jays play in Pittsburgh, the obvious question of how they could possibly be willing to let any team play in the state naturally presents itself ... and there's no answer that could even pass the laugh test.
   52. SoSH U at work Posted: July 28, 2020 at 04:04 PM (#5966452)
I suppose there could be a stray Phillie who conceivably like played the outfield and went 0 for the weekend or something and never got within six feet of a Marlin,


He'd have been within six feet of the catcher.
   53. . Posted: July 28, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5966454)
He'd have been within six feet of the catcher.


I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that none of the positive Marlins played catcher, but yeah, of course you're totally right. It doesn't really even matter at this point which particular Marlin has tested positive, because it could be incubating in several Marlins who will test positive in the next few days.
   54. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 04:22 PM (#5966455)
MLB is basically a public nuisance and danger at this point.

The same could be said of Rob Manfred pretty much since Bud Selig retired.
   55. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 28, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5966460)

So how has Juan Soto not been cleared to play then????

Because he is not a "new" positive case - he originally tested positive before Friday.
   56. Howie Menckel Posted: July 28, 2020 at 04:32 PM (#5966461)
update to Post 39

07.28: Nationals manager Davey Martinez said Tuesday that Juan Soto(COVID-19) has received back-to-back negative tests from MLB's labs and is now just waiting to be officially cleared.
(He'll need to be cleared by MLB and the city of Washington, D.C. Soto originally tested positive back on July 23 and was said to be asymptomatic. Still, it took him a little while to produce back-to-back negative tests. It sounds like he'll be back soon, though keep in mind that the Nationals aren't going to play this weekend after their series against the Marlins was postponed.)

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