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Thursday, November 12, 2020

Rob Manfred says MLB will ‘be more aggressive’ about hosting fans during 2021 season

MLB commissioner Rob Manfred is planning to allow fans to attend games during the 2021 season, as long as local government and health officials give the approval, according to The Athletic’s Evan Drellich. The coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic forced MLB to play the entirety of its 60-game regular season without fans in attendance. The league, however, did permit up to 11,500 fans at the League Championship Series and World Series at Globe Life Field in Arlington, Texas in October.

In a virtual discussion alongside NBA commissioner Adam Silver and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman on Tuesday, Manfred shared insight into the league’s 2021 plans for fans at the ballparks, per The Athletic:

“As we look forward, we will be more aggressive about having fans in ballparks. There were places where we could have had fans this year, and in fact we did have fans for the LCS and the World Series in Texas. Even though local jurisdictions had started to open up, we decided for this year that we would stay empty during the regular season.

“I don’t think that’s a tenable position for us going forward. We’re going to have to allow the clubs to operate safely. We’re obviously going to have league-wide protocols. If local public health authorities allow for fans, I think you’re going to see fans in the ballpark next year. Now, will it be full stadiums? I kind of doubt that. But we do think it’s important, and it’s why we did it in the World Series and the LCS: to get people accustomed to the idea that you can go to these live events with appropriate protocols, pods of people, social distancing, masks, and do it safely.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 12, 2020 at 01:04 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rob manfred

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   1. Mayor Blomberg Posted: November 12, 2020 at 06:54 PM (#5988520)
Kidnappings?
   2. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 12, 2020 at 11:09 PM (#5988537)
We should have a vaccine available to the public around opening day. Once that's the case, shouldn't have restrictions on crowd size.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 13, 2020 at 12:31 AM (#5988545)
Yeah, as long as you enforce the “appropriate protocols.” Just like you did with the players wearing masks in the dugouts. And Justin Turner.
   4. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2020 at 12:55 AM (#5988550)
If Pfizer gets the OK for its vaccine from the FDA, it plans to produce enough doses for 20M people in 2020, and many times that in 2021. There are also 3 other companies with vaccines in phase III trials, with a 4th about to start. No guarantees, but things could look a lot different by Opening Day.
   5. Mayor Blomberg Posted: November 13, 2020 at 01:58 AM (#5988556)
We should have a vaccine available to the public around opening day. Once that's the case, shouldn't have restrictions on crowd size.

That seems optimistic. Yes, there likely will be a vaccine, but how many doses and how distributed not only in the US but globally? From what I've read, the Pfizer candidate is a 2-does that needs to be kept at -80 until injected.
   6. Ron J Posted: November 13, 2020 at 06:52 AM (#5988561)
#5 I linked to a Wendover Productions video on the logistical challenge recently. Worth a watch if you're interested in this kind of thing.

Linky
   7. Belfry Bob Posted: November 13, 2020 at 07:48 AM (#5988564)
to get people accustomed to the idea that you can go to these live events with appropriate protocols, pods of people, social distancing, masks, and do it safely.”


yes, that's been our current plan. Working quite well, if you don't mind all those infections and deaths and stuff.

Ain't no way a reasonable number of the public is going to be vaccinated by Opening Day. Or even the 4th of July. Going to a MLB game isn't in my cards for 2021.
   8. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: November 13, 2020 at 08:51 AM (#5988566)
We have eaten outside at restaurants a number of times and always felt pretty safe. Gonna miss that when winter moves everything inside.

I would think an MLB game at 1/4 capacity should be pretty reasonable- my only worry would be how they handle processing the tickets and making sure the line stays socially distanced.

Any more than that I think I'd decline
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 13, 2020 at 09:07 AM (#5988570)
We have eaten outside at restaurants a number of times and always felt pretty safe. Gonna miss that when winter moves everything inside.

The way they have the tables spread out, I feel perfectly safe dining indoors. Did it last night.

Really, I think the biggest risk is the people handling the food, which is the same risk indoor, outdoor, or delivery.
   10. Jay Seaver Posted: November 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM (#5988579)
I've been to a few movies over the last couple of months, and the part that felt the least safe was the ride on the subway (it was odd realizing that I hadn't been in a vehicle of any sort for 5 months in late August). Of course, that's in part because (1) Massachusetts isn't allowing theaters to sell concessions (so nobody's taking off their masks) and (b) with only us absurdly dedicated moviegoers there, we weren't even close to the 20-40% capacity the theaters were allowed. Basically, it was relatively safe because most people don't realize it's relatively safe.

Will Fenway be a similar situation by April? I mean, it's possible; the Red Sox aren't nearly as dependent on concession sales as AMC, and especially in the spring, enough people might prefer to stay home that there are only 6,000 or so people in the park. If the new administration can make headway by then, we could be in a decent position, and maybe set to get closer to full capacity as vaccinations are available.

(Of course, trust Manfred to find the most tone-deaf way to say that)
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 13, 2020 at 11:58 AM (#5988600)
I've been to a few movies over the last couple of months, and the part that felt the least safe was the ride on the subway

That's what makes me nervous, public transportation. In the office, no one's going to be stupid, b/c everyone knows them. The trains, on the other hand, are full of lunatics. When I have to go back into work, I'll probably drive into NYC. Hopefully it's only 2 days a week or something.
   12. SoSH U at work Posted: November 13, 2020 at 12:17 PM (#5988606)
Basically, it was relatively safe because most people don't realize it's relatively safe.


I think Yogi mentioned something about that.
   13. Rally Posted: November 13, 2020 at 12:31 PM (#5988608)
Snapper, what worries me is the return to public toilets. Especially the kind in a big office building that don’t have lids and when flushed give you a high powered dose of aerosolized Covid-feces.

As for public transportation I might luck out on that one. I used to take the commuter train into DC union station every day. But my agency had plans to move to a different office out in the suburbs. Based on where I live now driving there will take about as long as my old train commute. While the location is near a metro, it would be impossible for me to get there from home faster than driving. I think the move was supposed to start sometime in mid 2021, so looks more and more likely I’ll never see my old office (or the inside of a train) again.
   14. Ron J Posted: November 13, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5988625)
We moved offices. Old office was a 5 minute walk. New one is a hoteling setup a long ways away. If I can help it I won't be going back in the foreseeable future. Even though they will have made adjustments so that it's no longer hoteling.
   15. Jay Seaver Posted: November 13, 2020 at 01:45 PM (#5988629)
I think Yogi mentioned something about that.


He's not exactly wrong in this case; I gather the information warfare guys call it "security through obscurity", where the example I heard was that, despite their reputation at the time, Apple systems were actually more vulnerable to cyber-attack than Microsoft ones, but since very few people use Macs as the back end of anything, there's not as much profit to be had from hacking them (are you going to write malware to maybe scrape one person's information off their laptop, or grab that of thousands at once). Right now, I can go to a movie and it's pretty safe because not enough people treat it as safe for the conditions that make spread likely to arise. It's a weird paradox.

I'm not sure how the risks differ between a theater and a ballgame, though. You're inside at a movie theater, but most have pretty good ventilation and despite the stereotypes, most people have no problem being masked much of the time. If you stay at your seat during a ballgame, you're outside and at less risk, although I don't know how much people cheering is going to be an issue. There's also a lot more circulating in crowded concourses throughout, unless teams are told they can't sell snacks and beer. I'd probably be okay going to a 20% capacity ballgame with no concessions, especially if I've got enough time to arrive early, but I don't know how well that would go over with others and if that particular crowd would be as good about keeping masks on as the folks at theaters have been.
   16. Rally Posted: November 13, 2020 at 02:01 PM (#5988630)
I absolutely hate wearing masks. I understand the reasons for requiring them, and I have no problem with complying when needed. For example, I'm not going to cause trouble and not wear one at the grocery store. I'll put up with wearing the damn thing when it comes to necessary activities.

But when it comes to optional entertainment, you can count me out. Until the day when we can go to the ballpark without wearing a mask, I'm perfectly fine just watching on TV.
   17. The Duke Posted: November 13, 2020 at 03:54 PM (#5988641)
It will all be over soon. The only way this will end is everyone, or most everyone needs to get it. If the infection rate is 8-10X the known positive test rate then we are already at a million infections per day. Added to the millions who already were exposed in the last nine months it won’t take long until there aren’t enough virgins to infect. So if the vaccine can be distributed to the 65+ crowd first we should be fine by the fall. We’ll lose half a million or more along the way, hit it will be over soon enough.

It will likely be a grim, grim winter economically and mental health-wise.
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: November 13, 2020 at 04:05 PM (#5988644)
aerosolized Covid-feces


I saw them open for the Ramones BITD at the Capitol Theater.

the lead singer was so wasted that he was booed off the stage after one song.

I heard they broke up soon thereafter.
   19. . Posted: November 13, 2020 at 04:34 PM (#5988649)
Covid theatre added to security theatre at the nation's stadiums and arenas is going to be quite the slog.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: November 13, 2020 at 04:57 PM (#5988654)
#17 -- deeply ignorant. No study has found an antibody rate above 20% in the most highly infected areas. The "multiplication rate" is almost certainly below 10 at this point, that held when testing was not as widespread. You also have the fact that people sensibly interact a lot less than they were before.

Then there's the issue that nobody knows how long natural immunity might last or how effective it is. Early studies suggest it's at least 6 months but obviously we won't know if it lasts years for ... years.

Then there's the issue of how much this thing will mutate.

The assumption that once you've had it, you're safe for life has no basis in science.
   21. The Duke Posted: November 13, 2020 at 08:44 PM (#5988682)
No basis in science? It’s how humans work. We get sick, the body fights off the virus and when the body sees the virus again it fights it off. That’s an oversimplification but basically that’s what will happen. Does it mean you won’t get sick again? No. But you won’t die. The reason most people are dying is that immune system is going into hyper - drive and killing off the host while it’s trying to kill the virus - a cytocane storm. On top of the normal reasons that most of these people are already really compromised from old age and other health problems.

Many US scientists have projected a rate of infection 8-10X the positive test rate. A study in Bavaria published on oct 30 says it is 6X. The WHO just published a report

“Acknowledging these limitations, based on the currently available data, one may project that over half a billion people have been infected as of 12 September, 2020, far more than the approximately 29 million documented laboratory-confirmed cases. Most locations probably have an infection fatality rate less than 0.20% and with appropriate, precise non-pharmacological measures that selectively try to protect high-risk vulnerable populations and settings, the infection fatality rate may be brought even lower.”

If my math is correct that is 17X the positive tests worldwide with a mortality rates similar or lower than the common flu. The US has done way more tests than most so I think 17X is way too high for us - I’ll stick with 8-10X

This is all going to be over soon - similar to how the the Spanish flu burnt out. To the extent there is a mutation evolution it’s likely to be to a less lethal version. In fact that has already happened with the strains that appeared in the summer being far less lethal than the one that killed people in the early days.

   22. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: November 13, 2020 at 09:05 PM (#5988683)
Geez, 21 comments in and nobody has used the phrase "death cult"? Y'all slippin'.
   23. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: November 13, 2020 at 09:08 PM (#5988685)
In the office, no one's going to be stupid, b/c everyone knows them


You and I work with very different people. I’ve been back in the office since May and some of my coworkers (a small number but more than a couple) rarely wear masks, get too close for discussions and do not do much in the way of sanitizing areas they’ve been. I’m fortunate enough to have an office so I keep my door closed a lot of the time and leave at lunch to go home.
   24. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 14, 2020 at 11:40 AM (#5988716)
There is absolutely no way the infection rate is 8-10x the reported cases at this point. That was the rate in NY in April when you had to have serious symptoms to get tested. Current rate is probably no more than 3x, maybe up to 5x in some locations.
   25. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 14, 2020 at 11:58 AM (#5988719)
Very simple math tells you the number can’t be 8-10x given the amount of testing going on now.

Illustrative numbers — Florida has tested 30% of its population (Unique individuals tested, not # of tests) and 13% of those people have tested positive. For the ratio to be 8x, that would mean 40% of the remaining untested people in the state have had COVID and simply didn’t get tested. What are the odds that the positivity rate is higher in the untested population than in the tested population? Pretty low, given that people tend to get tested when they have symptoms or have a known exposure. There’s certainly no way the infection rate is three times higher among people who haven’t been tested.

If you do the math in FL and assume 13% of the remaining 70% of the pop has had it, that would make the ratio around 2.3x. It is probably higher in places like N.Y./NJ which had a serious testing capacity issue when they had their peak in cases. But overall the country I would guess is around 3-5x.
   26. puck Posted: November 14, 2020 at 12:28 PM (#5988721)
I'm leery of any indoor situation due to some of those studies of how hvac systems just spread everything around. I go grocery shopping but am masked and try to be quick about it, which is why I hate going with my wife. We go late at night when the store's mostly empty.

I don't know what think of an MLB outdoor situation. 1/4 attendance like the playoffs, outdoors, seems like that could be ok. Still seems easy for people behind you to spit on you while they yell/cheer. Congregation while exiting, in restrooms etc seems likely too.

Indoor sports--this guy interviewed at Slate doesn't like the NBA's plan for this season.

   27. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2020 at 01:50 PM (#5988727)
Folks seems to be discounting the effect of a vaccine on the 2021 season. Time will tell on that, but before MLB, individual teams & public health officials make any final decisions on the regular season, they’ll have to figure out what to do for Spring Training. Seems like teams are hoping to have fans, but not selling tickets yet, or giving any firm date for when tickets will go on sale. Some details on possible ST Covid mitigation measures have trickled out, since local governments operate many of the ballparks. My guess is that teams will give it a try at 20%-25% of capacity, with masks & other mitigation measures required.
   28. Brian C Posted: November 14, 2020 at 07:43 PM (#5988753)
Even assuming no vaccine, reasonable crowds in AZ and FL in the spring - in outdoor parks in warm weather - doesn't seem like much of a concern.

That said though, I don't understand why the proper response from Manfred re: in-person crowds is anything other than "we'll see how things are".
   29. The Duke Posted: November 14, 2020 at 08:18 PM (#5988763)
Even if it’s 5X now, there were 180k infections just yesterday. That’s roughly a million infections. 200 days from now, at that rate, and we are done. It doesn’t work that way of course but rough orders of magnitude are important. At this rate, it can’t go on much longer. We are probably in wave 3. Spanish flu had four waves.

A vaccine will help alleviate the the risk to those most likely to die or get seriously ill. So the faster they get it out to vulnerable people the faster that the death rates drops dramatically.
   30. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 14, 2020 at 09:15 PM (#5988773)
I’m pretty sure we’re not at 1 million per day and if we get there, we won’t be there for all that long. At that rate, hospitals will be at capacity (some places are already there) and you will probably have 5,000+ people dying of COVID every day. When people begin to see that, they will stop going out again — or at least, enough of them will that it will slow the spread. We saw this in the second wave, I expect we’ll see it again.

Or else people won’t change their behavior and we’ll go from 1 million per day to 2 million in relatively short order. That’s kind of how this thing works. It rarely just sits at an Rt of 1.0.
   31. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 14, 2020 at 09:25 PM (#5988778)
I saw them open for the Ramones BITD at the Capitol Theater.

I actually saw the Ramones at the Capitol back in high school. It was supposed to be their farewell tour, but they did a couple more after that I think.

Can’t remember who opened for them but I have a friend who has kept the ticket stub from every concert he’s ever attended, so I could check with him. He recently confirmed some details about the first concert we ever went to (Van Halen) — we were reminiscing about it after Eddie’s death.
   32. base ball chick Posted: November 14, 2020 at 11:27 PM (#5988794)
The Duke Posted: November 13, 2020 at 08:44 PM (#5988682)

No basis in science? It’s how humans work. We get sick, the body fights off the virus and when the body sees the virus again it fights it off. That’s an oversimplification but basically that’s what will happen.


"recover" only means didn't DIE. there are a lot of people who are still alive who are not well as they were before infection. they are shrugged off seeing as how they are not cluttering up the hospitals or morgues. we have in 9 months lost more americans than we did in ww2. are we desperately tryin to exceed the total deaths of the first civil war? or aiming higher for the combined total of all our wars?


“... with appropriate, precise non-pharmacological measures that selectively try to protect high-risk vulnerable populations and settings, the infection fatality rate may be brought even lower.”


- now, what zackly are these supposed "appropriate, precise, non-pharmalogical measures" that protect the high risk/vulnerable populations? either there are none of they don't do spit

sounds a whole lot like belling the cat

...Even if it’s 5X now, there were 180k infections just yesterday. That’s roughly a million infections. 200 days from now, at that rate, and we are done. It doesn’t work that way of course but rough orders of magnitude are important. At this rate, it can’t go on much longer. We are probably in wave 3. Spanish flu had four waves


- we are done???? cmon. after losing over 3 million people, which is what that would be, and that is peachy keen with you? we have zero idea if covid antibodies are still effective after even 6 months and we have no idea how long the imuinity from the virus will last. this is not counting all the people who will refuse to get vaccinated because it is more fun to get and give the virus, hopefully killing and maiming people along the way

the spanish flu killed 675,000 americans. that is a lot of folks.

do you just shrug it off because we got plenty more americans

   33. TJ Posted: November 15, 2020 at 09:05 AM (#5988809)
Best estimates for general population inoculation are pointing toward the summer, not April. If Manfred is talking about increasing crowds at games in the summer, then perhaps he is right. If he’s talking about from Opening Day, the only way that will happen is if baseball stadiums also serve as places to get Covid shots. Maybe MLB can have “Covid Shot Day”, sort of like the old Bat Days except the giveaway will be limited to people above the age of 14 instead of below it...
   34. The Duke Posted: November 15, 2020 at 10:49 AM (#5988811)
The Spanish flu killed large numbers of young working age people who had many years to live. It also killed a much higher proportion of our population than covid ultimately will. So, it’s very different in that regards.

for covid 130k of our 239k deaths are in the 75+ bucket with 170k in the 65+ bucket. It’s statistically not lethal to our working age population. So, the focus needs to Continue to be Nursing home environments (easier said than done) and let everyone else go on about their business. My parents live in a home and they have instituted a number of non-pharmacy edicts. Temperature taking at door, no visitors in the home, only in well-ventilated common areas, masks, caregivers have now been assigned to Specific patients vs rotating around, no group gatherings. They’ve managed to avoid large scale outbreaks.

All virus’ have a certain percentage of people that suffer long haul symptoms. It’s more noticeable with covid because of the very high rate of contagion.

There are many more treatments now than there were in February which is why the death rate continues to plummet. The president himself went from deaths door to cured in a week - although most of us can’t get that kind of care, it shows that aggressive measures do work.

The media wants you to believe there is some fix for all this (masks, shutdowns, vaccines). It just needs to burn itself out and it will soon at this rate. Nobody wants people to die but at some point you just have to accept that this somewhat inevitable for a nation where people travel all of the place and millions of people go to/fro overseas

   35. Greg Pope Posted: November 15, 2020 at 12:26 PM (#5988820)
Best estimates for general population inoculation are pointing toward the summer, not April. If Manfred is talking about increasing crowds at games in the summer, then perhaps he is right. If he’s talking about from Opening Day, the only way that will happen is if baseball stadiums also serve as places to get Covid shots. Maybe MLB can have “Covid Shot Day”, sort of like the old Bat Days except the giveaway will be limited to people above the age of 14 instead of below it...

The vaccine takes time to work. And that's assuming a one shot vaccine, which I believe that the Pfizer one is not. Getting a vaccine when you go to the park would not prevent you from catching it at the park.
   36. Greg Pope Posted: November 15, 2020 at 12:30 PM (#5988821)
The way they have the tables spread out, I feel perfectly safe dining indoors. Did it last night.

Really, I think the biggest risk is the people handling the food, which is the same risk indoor, outdoor, or delivery.


I don't feel safe with indoor dining. The spreading out is fine for normal contact. For example, I don't have a problem going to the grocery or hardware store because I'm constantly moving around and staying 6 feet away from everyone. But indoor dining? Even with tables spread out, you're still spending 1.5-2 hours in the same location, breathing the same air as everyone else in the restaurant. If there's any sort of air circulation you're likely to be exposed.

I've been fine with outdoor dining that also has spacing. But now that we're hitting winter weather in Chicago I don't think I'm going out to eat for the next 6 months or so.

Obviously each person can judge their own risk tolerance.
   37. Mayor Blomberg Posted: November 15, 2020 at 12:41 PM (#5988824)
No, it's a 2-shot, at least 2 weeks apart, must be kept at -80C until administered vaccine. The linnk in #6 is accurate in all respects for the reading-impaired. Good luck setting that up.

Man the scientific illiteracy on this thread is ... unsurprising.
   38. base ball chick Posted: November 15, 2020 at 02:31 PM (#5988837)
The Duke Posted: November 15, 2020 at 10:49 AM (#5988811)

The Spanish flu killed large numbers of young working age people who had many years to live. It also killed a much higher proportion of our population than covid ultimately will. So, it’s very different in that regards.


- we don't know what percent of our population covid will kill seeing as how we are going to more than overwhelm the hospitals we got

for covid 130k of our 239k deaths are in the 75+ bucket with 170k in the 65+ bucket. It’s statistically not lethal to our working age population.


- it's more than 245 K and that is underestimating it by 50 - 100K
so, eff the over 65s, they're useless anyhow, let em die. it shouldn't interfere with us going to bars, getting drunk and screwing god knows who. or our freedom to not wear masks and and to be able to spread death and disease

- so if 10% of the population has now been infected, and stupidly assuming they can't/won't get infected again, and ignoring all those old useless worthless Old People being dead, lets use your numbers: 239K - 170K = 69K dead worthy people. so 69K = 10% of 690 K. (my math skillz are lousy, incase i did this wrong) and you can calmly shrug off more people dead of this virus than died in the freaking civil war? and we both know this number is too low because the numbers are seriously lagging behind and are not corresponding with excess deaths

So, the focus needs to Continue to be Nursing home environments (easier said than done) and let everyone else go on about their business. My parents live in a home and they have instituted a number of non-pharmacy edicts. Temperature taking at door, no visitors in the home, only in well-ventilated common areas, masks, caregivers have now been assigned to Specific patients vs rotating around, no group gatherings. They’ve managed to avoid large scale outbreaks.


- most Old People don't live in a nursing home. most Old People live with a spouse, relatives, because nursing homes are hella expensive and the waiting lists for the poor on medicare is years long. taking temps is useless half the time seeing as how a good half of infected people, who DO transmit the virus, have no fever and no symptoms, and also people are contagious BEFORE they have symptoms.

All virus’ have a certain percentage of people that suffer long haul symptoms. It’s more noticeable with covid because of the very high rate of contagion.


- and all these people, who are alive NOW, and not followed up to see who finally die from it. or are permanently disabled because of it. and this isn't counting all the ones who aint getting NO health care. did you know that 1 of 4 adult texas citizens under 65 (like me, for example) have no health care?


There are many more treatments now than there were in February which is why the death rate continues to plummet. The president himself went from deaths door to cured in a week - although most of us can’t get that kind of care, it shows that aggressive measures do work.


- are you SERIOUSLY going to compare the treatment that the president got - walter reed TEAM of dedicated doctors, nurses, therapists tending ONLY to him - to what almost the rest of the population is gonna get in the understaffed, overcrowded hospitals?

tell me what treatment is available for patients who are too sick to take care of themselves but don't have oxygen low enough for admission. tell me how much good treatment people are getting in rural hospitals. tell me how much treatment just like the president's (and he wasn't given hydroxychloroquin neither) people are getting even in really good hospitals like methodist in houston (where baylor college of medicine at). well, unless they the billionaire elite, and theres a few of them here, tell you that. heard tell they get their own floor with their own nurses

The media wants you to believe there is some fix for all this (masks, shutdowns, vaccines). It just needs to burn itself out and it will soon at this rate. Nobody wants people to die but at some point you just have to accept that this somewhat inevitable for a nation where people travel all of the place and millions of people go to/fro overseas


- the media is quoting physicians and scientists, people who actually KNOW shttt, not spreading a bunch of gossip and rumors, and trying to prevent the spread of disease, which you seem completely opposed to, is not hard, and can be done by wearing masks and not going to any sort of indoor event where you won't be wearing a good mask at all times. wearing a mask is really not hard. meeting with other people wearing a mask is not hard. wearing a mask at work is not hard. socializing with friends without eating or drinking is not hard.

the trouble is too many people truly don't give one good poop if they get infected, hurt or kill others because they want to believe that they are as invulnerable as God Himself and should share his power of life and death over others.

and it is truly appalling to me that you so casually shrug off killing off 1 of every 1000 americans in the name of being able to party and go to bars
   39. Zonk Can Sell Culture Posted: November 15, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5988844)
I encourage the herd people to volunteer at your local hospital.... decline ppe, too. Tell em you want the covid wards to help. Do your part.

Best for everyone. Be the change you seek.
   40. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 15, 2020 at 05:17 PM (#5988866)
There are many more treatments now than there were in February which is why the death rate continues to plummet. The president himself went from deaths door to cured in a week - although most of us can’t get that kind of care, it shows that aggressive measures do work.

If you have 1 million cases per day, there won’t be enough of these treatments or enough medical professionals to administer them. Treatment has gotten better but it’s also a matter of hospitals not being overwhelmed like they were in some of the hardest hit areas in the spring.
   41. Mayor Blomberg Posted: November 15, 2020 at 05:20 PM (#5988867)
Exactly when, except in his own fantasies of dvinity, was Cheeto anywhere near death's door?

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