Charles III has begun to clean house.

Weird, and Great Britain just qualified for the WBC, too.

Harry is tanned, rested, and ready.

Sixteen years, man, that's hardly enough time to draft, develop, play and replace more than a couple complete teams.

29 GMs just for a call from Mike Matheny asking if any roles may be opening up in the near future

I find it odd that Moore managed to build a team that went to the WS twice in a row (am I remembering that right?), and has been such a comprehensive failure otherwise.

I think the best thing you can say about Moore's tenure is that when he was hired, the entire concept of the Royals fielding a competitive seemed impossible and faintly ridiculous.

Here's the thread when he was hired

Meanwhile, the worst thing you can say about his tenure is that after winning the World Series (!) the team got extremely complacent.

Before they won, Royals fans used to joke about trusting The Process -- the constant assumption that slow and steady wins the race, that underperformers will figure it out, that guys currently in the system are the long term answer, that guys who've had success will maintain it. From about 2012-2015, The Process worked beautifully. From about 2016-2019, it didn't work at all. From 2020 to present, they've gotten a lot of talent into the system, but the results haven't shown themselves on the field yet. The pitchers are definitely behind schedule; the hitters are just arriving.

By all accounts a prince of a guy, and I've really rooted hard for him (and the Royals) since I read this during the early part of the pandemic, when the Royals kept their minor league system on salary while a lot of other teams cut them loose:

“Understand this: The minor-league players, the players you’ll never know about, the players that never get out of rookie ball or High A, those players have as much impact on the growth of our game (as) 10-year or 15-year veteran players. They have as much opportunity to influence the growth of our game as those individuals who played for a long time because those individuals go back into their communities and teach the game, work in academies, are JUCO coaches, college coaches, scouts, coaches in pro baseball. They’re growing the game constantly because they’re so passionate about it. So we felt it was really, really important not to release one minor-league player during this time, a time we needed to stand behind them.”

If you'd offered me the entire Moore tenure in one package on the day he was hired, I'd have accepted it in a heartbeat, and I'd still consider it to be about a 99th percentile result relative to expectations.

The new GM will probably want a new manager, a new pitching coach, and a less sentimental approach to getting and paying players. Those are conventional baseball problems. But at the time Moore was hired, the Royals had nothing -- no good players (Greinke, Butler, and Gordon were in the system, but that's about it), no minor league system, no good staff, and no way of getting any of it. The expectation was somewhere between grinding, fruitless failure and demoralizing, abject failure.

#9 -- It's an odd thing to say on the day he's fired, but I think Moore would actually be a very good Commissioner of baseball.

#11, the last think the owners want is a nice person to be commissioner of baseball.

#12 They don't care -- as long as he acts as expected. There's no particular reason a nice guy can't do the job.

Who can blame them after that James Shields trade?

Here's the thread when he was hired

16 years ago. I wrote just 4 lines. Times change eh?

Flags fly forever.

He cashed on all their chips to win that title, and you know what? It was worth it.

I read the headline as "Royals fire up Dinty Moore" and thought, "Hey, great beef stew!" (To be fair, it's still early in the morning here.)

Moore...2007-2022....2 pennants...one world championship
Cashman....2007-2022....1 pennant...one World Championship

Moore...2007-2022....2 pennants...one world championship
Cashman....2007-2022....1 pennant...one World Championship

I hope that's true.

29 GMs just for a call from Mike Matheny asking if any roles may be opening up in the near future

Hmmm, why was Moore sh1tcanned yesterday but Matheny still managing the club today?

Matheny is 99 percent certain to get fired at the end of the year.

Sherman said all the right things at the press conference. Pretty clear he wants to bring the Royals up to speed in analytics and DM was getting in the way. Picollo has worked with DM for decades but supposedly has been the one pushing for more analytics. We'll see. I like that Sherman didn't use small market excuses and wants to bring the Royals up with the Rays, Brewers, and Guardians in pitcher development.

#22 Moore is certainly a scouting guy, but ...

I think any organization that reduces (in particular) the Rays to "analytics" is overselling analytics. They're ruthless about being cost-effective (and that part is almost totally analytics) and can do so because they're very good at player development.

In a sense they remind me of the Orioles of the mid to late 60s and early 70s. Seems easy from afar but there's clearly a lot of good scouting and coaching happening.

I think any organization that reduces (in particular) the Rays to "analytics" is overselling analytics

This strikes me as obviously true. Analytics are no longer a market inefficiency. Anybody can hire twenty quants out of Berkeley and Cornell and have an effective analytics department. The secret sauce is elsewhere these days.

I think any organization that reduces (in particular) the Rays to "analytics" is overselling analytics. They're ruthless about being cost-effective (and that part is almost totally analytics) and can do so because they're very good at player development.

I also agree.

They must also be good at scouting. When you go through their Top 12 players, it's a bunch of guys who started elsewhere and then found a new level in Tampa. They must be good at identifying players they can develop.

My in-laws live in the Kansas City area, and I've been going there regularly since 1999. Let me tell you: Everything Moore did or did not do was worth it for those two years when they got to the World Series. It was magical out there, and for some of the best sports fans in the country, it was all worth it. They still talk about 1985 like it was yesterday, and for a whole new generation of fans, 2014-2015 does the same thing.

From a Royals season-ticket holder pal earlier this month:

In 2014 and 2015 the royals won postseaon elimination games where they had an in game win probability of less than 4%—Wild Card vs Oakland in 2014 and Game Four (down 2-1) of the ALDS in Houston in 2015.

If they lose those two games then both Dayton Moore and Ned Yost go to their rewards with career postseason records of 1-4.

Instead, it’s 22-9, which makes Ned Yost the winningest postseason manager in MLB history with at least 25 postseason games managed.

I’ll just say, GMDM has eaten out on that very unlikely run for a loooooong time.

I also agree.

They must also be good at scouting. When you go through their Top 12 players, it's a bunch of guys who started elsewhere and then found a new level in Tampa. They must be good at identifying players they can develop.

Sherman said in the presser that they have the data, it's just not being used properly. He said it needs to be used in the draft, in development, and in making trades. I don't get the sense he's just saying analytics because it's a good buzzword, it seems like he learned a lot by being involved with the Cleveland ballclub as minority owner, and has talked a lot about using data - not just baseball statistics, but behavioral analysis, psychology - to improve development. We'll see, but I think this marks a finally sea change in the way this organization looks at analytics, they're finally looking forward instead of back to 1985.

In 2014 and 2015 the royals won postseaon elimination games where they had an in game win probability of less than 4%—Wild Card vs Oakland in 2014 and Game Four (down 2-1) of the ALDS in Houston in 2015.

If they lose those two games then both Dayton Moore and Ned Yost go to their rewards with career postseason records of 1-4.

Instead, it’s 22-9, which makes Ned Yost the winningest postseason manager in MLB history with at least 25 postseason games managed.

I’ll just say, GMDM has eaten out on that very unlikely run for a loooooong time.

If they lose those playoff games, they probably still keep their jobs, people were just so thrilled to make the playoffs. The Royals were 49-50 in late July that year - if they go .500 the rest of the way, Dayton Moore probably loses his job then.

Think about the fans in KC....
1969-1975 - no playoffs
1976-1985 - 7 division titles, 2 WS appearance, 1 WS win (the final year) over a decade.
1986-2013 - nada, just once reaching 90 wins (pre-Wild Card so left in the cold)
2014-2015 - 2 times to the WS, winning it once.
2016-2022 - nada, best record was 500 in 2016

Feast or famine for the KC fans. A 28 year stretch in the wilderness with little to no hope.

A lot of teams have had ugly long stretches like that (15+ years with no playoffs). Pittsburgh went from 1993-2012 with no playoffs, Toronto 1994-2014, Detroit 1988-2005, Angels 1987-2001, and just one from 2010-2022 despite having Mike Trout for most of it and Ohtani as well the past few (8 straight right now). Phillies went from 1994-2006, and now from 2012-2021 (likely broken this year but could blow it still), Washington-Montreal went from 1982-2011, the Mets had a lot of long stretches, but not 15+ year horrid ones. I'm sure I'm missing a few, but there are long stretches of 'who cares' for teams. Meanwhile the Yankees haven't missed more than 2 years in a row since their dark era (fun for everyone else) from 1982-1994 (aka the Mattingly years). This is only from the 90's to now (with streaks starting in the 80's counted).

I'm sure I'm missing a few,

Excluding pre-divisional era.
Milwaukee 1983-2007, covering two leagues.
Seattle 2002-current but ending this year.
Miami - 2003-2019, ending with expanded playoffs in COVID year.

Think about the fans in KC....
1969-1975 - no playoffs
1976-1985 - 7 division titles, 2 WS appearance, 1 WS win (the final year) over a decade.
1986-2013 - nada, just once reaching 90 wins (pre-Wild Card so left in the cold)
2014-2015 - 2 times to the WS, winning it once.
2016-2022 - nada, best record was 500 in 2016

Feast or famine for the KC fans. A 28 year stretch in the wilderness with little to no hope.

It's funny, from 1969-1984, the Royals were perpetually pretty good, but snakebit in the playoffs.

From 1985-2022, the Royals have been abjectly awful. They only have three seasons above 87 wins in that timespan. But if not for Madison Bumgarner, they win the World Series in all three of those years.

From 1985-2022, the Royals have been abjectly awful.

The 1985 Royals beg to differ. I mean, yeah, Denkinger and all, but still…they weren’t that bad.

The way the Royals built their franchise remains very impressive to this day, in part fueled by some early trades that worked out really well (they got Amos Otis and Lou Pinella for very little in 1969 and 1970, for example).

By the way, I got into the rabbit hole that is baseball-reference, and was on Lou Pinella's page. In transactions, it shows he was traded several times (it took teams a while to figure out what to do with him, so he didn't really get a chance to play until he was 26), but it shows that the first time he was traded was 1964, from the Washington Senators (the one that would become the Rangers) to the Baltimore Orioles.

Then, 36 years later, he was traded from Seattle to Tampa for Randy Winn.

A few questions:

1) Is that the longest stretch between first and last trade in baseball history? (I checked Chuck Tanner, and it was a longer stretch than him.)

2) He is obviously the only person in history to be traded by both the Seattle Pilots and the Seattle Mariners, right?

3) In 1974, Pinella was a full time player with a good batting average, but very little power, and stunningly poor results on the basepaths. He stole one base, and got caught 8 times - 1-for-9. I know I am cherry picking eligibility criteria, but is that the most caught stealings in a season for a guy who stole 0 or 1 base in a season?

they got Amos Otis and Lou Pinella for very little in 1969 and 1970, for example

To be fair, the guy they got in the Lou Piniella deal wasn't much either.

Now the Hal McRae pickup in 72 was a good example of the Royals' good work in the early 70s.

Then, 36 years later, he was traded from Seattle to Tampa for Randy Winn.

This is still the only time I can think of that a manager has been traded for a player. I'm sure the people around here will remember more, but it still strikes me as an utterly bizarre thing to have happened.

#33 Pinella makes an appearance in Ball Four. Bouton admired Pinella's intensity and thought he was making a mistake with his reaction to how Seattle handled him -- that he'd get a meaningful shot in short order. Pinella didn't do patience even when he had very little leverage. And the Pilots evidently decided he wasn't worth the hassle.

#35 Chuck Tanner. Got the As 100K and Manny Sanguillen. Sanguillen wasn't very good, but he also wasn't Larry Haney.

since their dark era (fun for everyone else) from 1982-1994 (aka the Mattingly years).

This "Dark era" included three 90-win seasons ('82, '83, '85) two more where they won 88 or 89 ('87 and '93) and a season where they were on pace for 99 ('94). Meaning that when the strike is accounted for, Mattingly played, (meaningfully) on as many 90 win teams as he did losing teams

The Yankees were the winningest team in baseball in the 1980s.

In the last 100 years, there are no dark "eras" for the Yankees, except in the minds of their fans who believe they have a divine right to the playoffs. There were two stretches where the Yankees were briefly bad and non-competitive (1989-1992, 1965-1969), but calling those "eras" is a lot.

Sanguillen wasn't very good, but he also wasn't Larry Haney.

The A's turned around and shipped him right back to Pittsburgh five months later. Weird.

In the last 100 years, there are no dark "eras" for the Yankees, except in the minds of their fans who believe they have a divine right to the playoffs. There were two stretches where the Yankees were briefly bad and non-competitive (1989-1992, 1965-1969), but calling those "eras" is a lot.

I mean, by the standards of some Yankees fans I have known over the years, 2010-2021 counts as a "dark era" because the Yankees haven't won a WS in that time. Though of course fans are probably going to have adjust their expectation in the everybody-goes-to-the-playoffs world we now live in.

Win a World Series once every 30 years is about all you should expect. KC is right in line with expectations. Some teams make a multi-year run like the Giants and some teams just don't try much like the Pirates. You might expect the big market teams to win a little bit more frequently because of payroll discrepancies.

Win a World Series once every 30 years is about all you should expect.

Sorry, Mariners fans.

This is still the only time I can think of that a manager has been traded for a player. I'm sure the people around here will remember more, but it still strikes me as an utterly bizarre thing to have happened.

Manager John Farrell was traded from Toronto to Boston (along with reliever David Carpenter) for Mike Aviles.

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was also traded to the Marlins.

Anybody can hire twenty quants out of Berkeley and Cornell and have an effective analytics department.

*Except the Rockies, apparently.

Anybody can hire twenty quants out of Berkeley and Cornell and have an effective analytics department.

*Except the Rockies, apparently.

The problem with the Rockies is instead of Berkeley and Cornell, they're making all their quant hires from Liberty and Oral Roberts Universities.

Moore...2007-2022....2 pennants...one world championship
Cashman....2007-2022....1 pennant...one World Championship

I hope that's true.

It is, and from 2006 (when Moore was hired mid-season) to 2022, Ca$hman also outspent the Royals by over ONE BILLION DOLLARS over that time according to Cot's.

It is,

I meant, 2007-2022 inclusive.

In the classic player draft of the most inept teams, the Orioles picked Adley Rutschman and the Royals then picked Bobby Witt. Funny thing is the other teams all drafted and then theOs picked Gunnar Henderson. He and Witt may be considered comparable.The number 2 in the round is now the tops in the country, as was Adley but every other team could have picked Gunnar as their #1 and didn’t. The Os are now starting 3 or 4 players from that one draft on a regular basis. Has that been done before?

A lot of teams have had ugly long stretches like that (15+ years with no playoffs).

The Orioles didn't have a 500 season from 1998 to 2011. 1997 they did go to ALCS, and in 2012 they did go to ALDS. But in between it was an absolute brutal stretch, mirroring the Pirates for ineptitude. There were some pretty awful teams for a number of years in the 2000s, if you throw the Tigers and Royals into the mix.

The Os are now starting 3 or 4 players from that one draft on a regular basis. Has that been done before?

Not sure, but the Royals also had four players from one draft start in their rotation last year - Brady Singer, Daniel Lynch, Kris Bubic, and Jackson Kowar - and reporters said that had only been done three times previous:

1995 Mets (Bobby Jones, Bill Pulsipher, Jason Isringhausen, Jason Jacome)
1995 White Sox (Alex Fernandez, James Baldwin, Jason Bere, Rod Bolton)
2018 Cardinals (Jack Flaherty, Luke Weaver, Austin Gomber, Daniel Ponce de Leon)