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Tuesday, October 21, 2014

Royals’ James Shields passed kidney stone during ALCS but is ready for World Series | The Kansas City Star

Ouch.

jimfurtado Posted: October 21, 2014 at 08:06 AM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: james shields, royals

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   1. BDC Posted: October 21, 2014 at 08:30 AM (#4821656)
Does B-Ref have a column for TMI?
   2. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 08:32 AM (#4821658)
Miguel Olivo once passed a kidney stone during a game and kept playing.

I couldn't copy from the link for some reason, but it said that the medical staff determined that Shields had already passed the stone. I've never had a kidney stone before, but isn't that something you would notice on your own?
   3. Merton Muffley Posted: October 21, 2014 at 08:52 AM (#4821662)
When they said Shields has stones, they weren't kidding.
   4. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 21, 2014 at 08:53 AM (#4821664)
My wife has had kidney stones and she said it was almost as painful as the contractions before childbirth.
   5. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:03 AM (#4821665)
This harkens back to the George Brett and hemorrhoids era.
   6. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:08 AM (#4821667)
Old busted: Bloody sock
New hotness: Bloody jock
   7. Matthew E Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:16 AM (#4821672)
Big Duct James.
   8. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:19 AM (#4821673)
This is where we can have a Deadwood thread. Al's kidney stone didn't put the experience in a comfortable light.
   9. bobm Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:32 AM (#4821678)
2014 Royals

                   
Name             PB  PKS
Salvador Perez    5    0
Brett Hayes       1    0
James Shields     0    1
   10. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:34 AM (#4821679)
I've never had a kidney stone before, but isn't that something you would notice on your own?
Depends how big it is. My wife had one about ten years ago that hurt like hell, but was small enough that (I'm told) she couldn't see it when she passed it.
   11. and Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:36 AM (#4821681)
Yeah, it isn't as if these are boulders shooting out. They generally hurt because they're sharp.
   12. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:47 AM (#4821687)

Yeah, I figured you would know you passed a kidney stone because of the location and intensity of the pain, if nothing else.
   13. Guapo Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:58 AM (#4821698)
I had a kidney stone last year. My experience was kind of atypical, but to be clear- the bulk of the pain is not, as I expected, actually passing the thing out the urethra. At least in my case, the pain occurs when the stone gets wedged in the ureter traveling from the kidney to the bladder.


Actually passing the thing was not a big deal- I had some discomfort, but the stone eventually shot out and was roughly the size of a grain of sand. So entirely possible you could pass one and not notice, particularly if you weren't looking for it.
   14. Greg K Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:00 AM (#4821699)
I just had a lecture about early modern medicine and health where I was going to describe 17th century stone operations. But I was worried I'd pass out in the middle, so I just played the class Giles Coren's mock stone operation from The Supersizers Go.
   15. Greg K Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:01 AM (#4821702)
Starting at 7:00 for those interested.
   16. puck Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:27 AM (#4821710)
I've never had a kidney stone before, but isn't that something you would notice on your own?


It sounds like he noticed:

The back pain surfaced late at night two Sundays ago. Waves of nausea soon followed. As the Royals wrapped up their first berth in the World Series since 1985 last week, James Shields was grappling with the effects of a kidney stone, the pitcher told The Star.

“It was excruciating pain,” Shields said during Monday’s workout before game one on Tuesday against San Francisco. “I wasn’t feeling good.”
   17. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:31 AM (#4821711)
This is where we can have a Deadwood thread. Al's kidney stone didn't put the experience in a comfortable light.


We drove out to Colorado this summer (forcing me to miss the BBTF softball game and all the booing) and ended up stopping in Deadwood for a bit. A word of warning - the locals do not actually use the sort of diction and verbiage you might expect based on the television series. In fact, they take offense. Cocksuckers.
   18. Itchy Row Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM (#4821713)
My foot fell asleep during game 2 of the Giants-Nationals series. Where's my parade?
   19. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:40 AM (#4821720)
I had a kidney stone last year. My experience was kind of atypical, but to be clear- the bulk of the pain is not, as I expected, actually passing the thing out the urethra. At least in my case, the pain occurs when the stone gets wedged in the ureter traveling from the kidney to the bladder.


Actually passing the thing was not a big deal- I had some discomfort, but the stone eventually shot out and was roughly the size of a grain of sand. So entirely possible you could pass one and not notice, particularly if you weren't looking for it.


I've had several and they were all like that. A couple I didn't even feel it actually passing.
   20. villageidiom Posted: October 21, 2014 at 10:48 AM (#4821726)
You know the kidney stone has passed when the excruciating pain is gone and does not return. The medical staff might have confirmed its passing along these lines:

"How long since you felt the pain?"
"Maybe an hour and a half."
"Yeah, it's passed."

I've only had the one kidney stone, and it went along the lines of what Guapo and AJM described. I didn't see its passing, but I knew it was gone when the excruciating pain had been gone for a while.
   21. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 21, 2014 at 11:28 AM (#4821752)
Every time I see a reference to a kidney stone I think of the classic Bob Dylan parody of "Like a Rolling Stone" on the Imus show. I wish I could find it, but this was the punch line:

"Sittin' here on the THRONE

"Passing a KIDNEY stone..."
   22. The_Ex Posted: October 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4821764)
I have had this twice. The pain and nausea comes and goes. When your tubage is blocked the pain is crazy bad, and for me it led to bouts of nausea. The pain can only be mildly controlled by OTC drugs. But if you have just eaten a meal and the attack starts you are dead becuase any pills you take wont be absorbed and will come up when you throw up. I had to go to small meals so I was able to get the drugs into me.

For me it came and went over a ten day period. You could have a day with nothing and then it would hit. Each attack lasted for about 3-6 hours. When the attack is ongoing you can do noting, just lie there and groan. Then the stone would move, stop the blockage, and you would back to normal. I lost 5 pounds over that 10 day period.

I can see how Shields would look wan, the pain and throwing up are not good for pitching. But now that it has gone he should be fine pretty quick.
   23. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 21, 2014 at 11:45 AM (#4821769)

It sounds like he noticed:

To be clear, I wasn't questioning whether he noticed he was ill. I was questioning how he could pass the stone and not notice. #13 actually answered the question for me, thank you.
   24. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: October 21, 2014 at 11:51 AM (#4821774)
I've decided I'm just going to skip kidney stones in life. None for me, thanks.
   25. ReggieThomasLives Posted: October 21, 2014 at 01:26 PM (#4821834)
This is really bad news for KC, Shields is totally messed up. Not only is he recovering from a kidney stone, he's suffering bouts of amnesia intermixed with what can be clearly diagnosed as a very serious case of ADHD.

"I’m a big believer in amnesia. I’ve been doing it my whole entire career."
...
Facing the Giants in August, Shields pitched one of his best games as a Royal. He allowed four hits in a shutout. He indicated he would study the film from that outing, but could only draw so much from it.


I say shut him down now, before he permanently forgets something!
   26. Hey, you and Tommy Lasorda... I hate Tommy Lasorda Posted: October 21, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4821851)
Don't know if this quote is true, but I remember hearing something similar at the time

George Brett on his hemorrhoidds during a press conference during the 1980 Series

"Just because you guys are such perfect ########, I don't know why you're making such a big deal about this."
   27. PreservedFish Posted: October 21, 2014 at 01:55 PM (#4821864)
I passed a kidney stone a couple years ago, it was very uncomfortable but not excruciating. Luckily. I passed it in the bathroom in the hospital waiting room. By the time the doctor got to me I said, "I think I feel fine now."

The thing that got me was the pamphlet they gave me on how to avoid kidney stones in the future. Basically, drink lots of water, and they have no idea if anything else helps. But the list of foods that you might as well avoid was basically the list of the world's healthiest foods: dark leafy greans like kale and spinach, broccoli, whole grains, beans and legumes. The foods that do not contribute to kidney stones are: meat, cheese, highly processed grains, sugar.
   28. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 21, 2014 at 02:10 PM (#4821881)
I'm amazed that nobody's made any reference to the most famous kidney stone attack of all time.
   29. Walt Davis Posted: October 21, 2014 at 04:27 PM (#4821990)
Tim Hudson passes stones twice this size.
   30. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 21, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4822007)
My wife has had kidney stones and she said it was almost as painful as the contractions before childbirth.

Some women have even said their kidney stones were worse than childbirth. Not fun at all.
   31. villageidiom Posted: October 21, 2014 at 05:24 PM (#4822030)
Some women have even said their kidney stones were worse than childbirth. Not fun at all.
My experience with this is threefold:

1. Women who have experienced both childbirth and kidney stones generally suggest the pain is comparable. They might rank one higher than the other, but the ranking varies, and regardless of the ranking the two events are considered basically in the neighborhood on the pain scale.

2. Women who have experienced childbirth but not kidney stones are fairly skeptical that anything can possibly compare to the pain of childbirth.

3. If you're a man, citing anyone from 1. in discussing kidney stones with anyone from 2. you will experience a conversational pain on par with passing a kidney stone. In any given group of people there are some who are highly invested in the notion that YOU can NEVER understand what THEY had to go through, and the subset of people from 2. are no exception.

The thing that got me was the pamphlet they gave me on how to avoid kidney stones in the future. Basically, drink lots of water, and they have no idea if anything else helps.
Doctors are generally people of science, but I've never seen so much medical advice having a foundation of old wives' tales like I've seen with advice concerning kidney stone prevention. The most common thing I'd heard - other than drinking water - was to have more lemon. They'd readily admit there's no hard science behind any of it, but would still offer the advice.
   32. Dan Posted: October 21, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4822034)
There are several different kinds of kidney stones, and preventing each type can require different things.

And it's actually pretty shocking how many doctors assume all kidney stones are calcium oxalate stones.
   33. AndrewJ Posted: October 21, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4822036)
My dad passed a kidney stone earlier this year, said it hurt like hell.
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 21, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4822040)
Ranking of things according to how much fun they are to pass:

(1) gas

(large gap)

(2) the ball (Peyton Manning)
(3) the Dutchie on the left-hand side
(4) slow drivers
(5) Go (+ $200)
(6) judgment
(7) muster (ranking between 6 & 7 varies depending on person)

(gap)

(8) the ball (Kobe Bryant)

(large gap)

(9) the bar exam

(large gap)

(8) kidney stones
   35. donlock Posted: October 21, 2014 at 05:55 PM (#4822047)
Women sometimes say, I think I might like to have another baby. No one, man or woman ever says, you know, I think I would like to have another kidney stone. Argument rests.
   36. billyshears Posted: October 21, 2014 at 06:56 PM (#4822064)
I was recently diagnosed with a kidney stone (about a month ago). I had no pain at the time of diagnosis. It was a medium sized stone and the doctor advised to wait and see what happens. I have only had intermittent and reasonably mild pain since. And yet, now I go through life with a fear that at any moment I am going to be stricken with intense pain the likes of which I have never experienced.
   37. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 21, 2014 at 07:43 PM (#4822078)
I go through life with a fear that at any moment I am going to be stricken with intense pain the likes of which I have never experienced.

Isn't he a Mets fan? My mistake, I guess.
   38. McCoy Posted: October 21, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4822147)
The only painful thing I ever did or experienced was having a cavity drilled with no anesthetic of any kind. The second most painful thing was undergoing a scaling while the anesthetic wore off. The dentist gave the shot and about a quarter of the way into the procedure the fire alarm went off and the whole building had to be evacuated. So we were all stuck outside for about half hour or so and by the time I got back into the chair the anesthetic had worn off. I didn't want to get another shot and wait for it take effect so I didn't say anything and just went with it.
   39. rlc Posted: October 21, 2014 at 09:32 PM (#4822316)
And it's actually pretty shocking how many doctors assume all kidney stones are calcium oxalate stones.

My doctor gave me a strainer to piss through so we could recover the stone and test its composition. I assumed this was standard practice.

After we determined the first one was calcium oxalate, we didn't bother testing the second two and I'm not even trying to catch the one I've got now. The dietary advice posted above was in order to reduce oxalic acid in the diet. Being a vegetarian and a gardener, I was inclined to ignore the advice to stop eating most of what's growing in my back yard. I chose the alternative of increasing calcium intake, the theory being that precipitating more calcium oxalate in the gut will keep it from doing so in the kidneys. As I am on stone number four, I can't say that the calcium is a silver bullet.

Like many of the commenters above, I only experienced pain while the stone was in the kidney; the urethra is bigger than the ducts in the kidneys, so stones up to a certain size will shred the kidneys but then be pissed away with nothing more than an unusual sensation. The pain doesn't come on suddenly; it builds from a mild discomfort in the back that will have you doing stretching exercises and massaging your back to a crushing visceral agony that will leave you curled in a ball on the floor. With the most recent attack, I felt the initial pain while I was out running errands and I had to calculate whether I would have time to stop at the grocery store for supplies before I became incapable of driving. Once I got home I dug the oxycodone out of the medicine cabinet and wrote off the rest of the day.
   40. Roger Freed Is Ready Posted: October 22, 2014 at 01:00 AM (#4822673)
he pain doesn't come on suddenly; it builds from a mild discomfort in the back that will have you doing stretching exercises and massaging your back to a crushing visceral agony that will leave you curled in a ball on the floor. With the most recent attack, I felt the initial pain while I was out running errands and I had to calculate whether I would have time to stop at the grocery store for supplies before I became incapable of driving.

Correct. That's why I don't believe the "Miguel Olivo passed a kidney stone while catching" story. It's probably more like Miguel Olivo passed a kidney stone, then felt immediately fine as soon as it passed (that's what happened with me), then caught 9 innings. The stone "passes" when it gets through the ureter and stops acting as a plug damming up all the urine flow. That relieves the intense pressure that makes you want to jump off a bridge. Once you know what kind of stone it is you can try to manage the risk -- mine were of the uric acid type, and potassium supplements along with increased water intake (particularly at night) and some weight loss and knock on wood, no stones for several years now.

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